Do you believe in God and why

[Tagged]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ah, ascribing human emotions to the creator of life the universe and everything.

I'm sure that "God" has more things to think about than what happens on an insignificant planet in an insignificant solar system, in an insignificant galaxy, when there are billions and billions of planets with life on them in the universe.

That is a very genuin thought compare to some belief systems around a god figure! But I like your way ????☃️????

[canuckamuck]

6 hours ago, Elad said:

Although entropy always increases for non living matter, in some cases, there's actually some process of order from chaos. For example, in the core of a star where nuclear fusion takes place, two hydrogen atoms form a helium atom and the helium atom is more complex than a hydrogen atom. Helium fuses to form carbon (the base element for life) and carbon is more complex than helium. The amount of energy given off in nuclear fusion or the increase in entropy, more than compensates for the amount of order, so overall, entropy increases. Supernova explosions create more complex atoms such as gold and platinum, but the amount of energy released gives an overall increase in entropy.

 

Interesting things happen in extreme environments, which is why I think a good candidate for where life could have first formed is around volcanic vents at the bottom of the ocean where temperatures and pressures are much higher than at the surface. Fossilized organisms have been found around these vents dating back 4.28 billion years, which is very shortly after the oceans formed.    

So if you can imagine it, it must be possible. And if it is possible, than you have faith that it happened.

And I imagine you feel you're faith is more legitimate than mine, that life was the result of intelligence. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by canuckamuck

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Elad said:

Although entropy always increases for non living matter, in some cases, there's actually some process of order from chaos. For example, in the core of a star where nuclear fusion takes place, two hydrogen atoms form a helium atom and the helium atom is more complex than a hydrogen atom. Helium fuses to form carbon (the base element for life) and carbon is more complex than helium. The amount of energy given off in nuclear fusion or the increase in entropy, more than compensates for the amount of order, so overall, entropy increases. Supernova explosions create more complex atoms such as gold and platinum, but the amount of energy released gives an overall increase in entropy.

 

Interesting things happen in extreme environments, which is why I think a good candidate for where life could have first formed is around volcanic vents at the bottom of the ocean where temperatures and pressures are much higher than at the surface. Fossilized organisms have been found around these vents dating back 4.28 billion years, which is very shortly after the oceans formed.    

Does "science" have a theory how anything could start "living"? Any scientist can probably make anything given the right equipment, but I'm pretty sure they can't make it live. "Live" as in organism that can reproduce.

[AsianAtHeart]

6 hours ago, Elad said:

Although entropy always increases for non living matter, in some cases, there's actually some process of order from chaos. For example, in the core of a star where nuclear fusion takes place, two hydrogen atoms form a helium atom and the helium atom is more complex than a hydrogen atom. Helium fuses to form carbon (the base element for life) and carbon is more complex than helium. The amount of energy given off in nuclear fusion or the increase in entropy, more than compensates for the amount of order, so overall, entropy increases. Supernova explosions create more complex atoms such as gold and platinum, but the amount of energy released gives an overall increase in entropy.

 

Interesting things happen in extreme environments, which is why I think a good candidate for where life could have first formed is around volcanic vents at the bottom of the ocean where temperatures and pressures are much higher than at the surface. Fossilized organisms have been found around these vents dating back 4.28 billion years, which is very shortly after the oceans formed.    

You'll need to be a little more precise in explaining how all of that was supposed to work out before I will be persuaded.  It sounds like you are a modern alchemist -- of the solar power variety!  The fact is, hydrogen has only a proton and no neutron.  Helium has two protons and two neutrons.  Therefore, to make a helium atom will require more than two hydrogen atoms.  Four might work, assuming we have some protons fusing with electrons to form neutrons.

 

But let's consider that "Big Bang" idea that's gotten so much press.  Modern science is already questioning it severely, as well it should, but I knew in high school that it could not possibly be true.  The Big Bang defies all the laws of physics.

 

Even if we consider that space is curved or warped into some form of space-time, it is completely unreasonable, and unscientific, to believe that projectiles from an explosion would miraculously begin orbiting in circles instead of being sent out in straight lines from the epicenter.  And, supposing that we could find some explanation for such tight orbits as of moons around a planet, we would still be hard-pressed to explain why Jupiter has moons orbiting in opposite directions.  And then, of its scores of moons, why do some have nearly perfect circular orbits while others are strongly elliptical? Why do some take a mere 7 hours to orbit while others take nearly three earth years?  And, perhaps among the most marvelous of all, why do none of the 79 or more moons ever collide?

 

I can believe the "Big Bang" as easily as I could believe if you told me you had a car accident and parts of your car had flown out from the wreckage to start orbiting the nearest tree.  Don't even try to embellish the story by telling me how the parts entered various orbits like Jupiter's moons!

[Mike Teavee]

12 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Oh my Buddha! Don't you have a birthday party to attend soon or something? 

Was Jesus born on this day or has this date been assigned to counter the pagan winter solstice celebrations that used to happen in those times... 

 

"Although most Christians celebrate December 25 as the birthday of Jesus Christ, few in the first two Christian centuries claimed any knowledge of the exact day or year in which he was born. The oldest existing record of a Christmas celebration is found in a Roman almanac that tells of a Christ’s Nativity festival led by the church of Rome in 336 A.D. The precise reason why Christmas came to be celebrated on December 25 remains obscure, but most researchers believe that Christmas originated as a Christian substitute for pagan celebrations of the winter solstice".

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/christ-is-born

 

I do recall reading somewhere that the person who was most likely to be Jesus was actually born in March, but I can't find any references to back that up anywhere. 

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ah, ascribing human emotions to the creator of life the universe and everything.

I'm sure that "God" has more things to think about than what happens on an insignificant planet in an insignificant solar system, in an insignificant galaxy, when there are billions and billions of planets with life on them in the universe.

Let me be a little pedantic as well. ????

 

'Thinking' is something humans do. In meditation you learn to quieten your inner chatter and the better you get at that, the closer you get to the mind of god. God, being the Supreme Being certainly knows what is going on in his creation, from the smallest particle to the largest galaxy and beyond. If God is truly GOD, there is nothing he is not, and nothing he doesn't know and most importantly, nothing he doesn't love.

God is not separate from us, busy doing some important God business. We are parts of him just like the cells in my body are part of me.

If God is truly GOD, it's impossible not to be part of him, because he is all there is.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

Let me be a little pedantic as well. ????

 

'Thinking' is something humans do. In meditation you learn to quieten your inner chatter and the better you get at that, the closer you get to the mind of god. God, being the Supreme Being certainly knows what is going on in his creation, from the smallest particle to the largest galaxy and beyond. If God is truly GOD, there is nothing he is not, and nothing he doesn't know and most importantly, nothing he doesn't love.

God is not separate from us, busy doing some important God business. We are parts of him just like the cells in my body are part of me.

If God is truly GOD, it's impossible not to be part of him, because he is all there is.

I didn't disagree with that, as I too believe that, except for the bit about love, as "love" is too general a word to use to describe anything important. Had you said "God" cares about us, I could accept that.

The point I was making was that one should not ascribe human emotion to "God". I don't even know if "God" thinks as we know it.

[mauGR1]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I didn't disagree with that, as I too believe that, except for the bit about love, as "love" is too general a word to use to describe anything important. Had you said "God" cares about us, I could accept that.

The point I was making was that one should not ascribe human emotion to "God". I don't even know if "God" thinks as we know it.

Merry Christmas, nice to hear your thoughts.

Love in its purest form, intended as sympathy, harmony, unselfish care, is perhaps the closer we can get in describing with words the spiritual unity of all the forces at work.

The dual judgement is a consequence of being prisoner in a physical body, but a well adjusted, balanced thought, is the vehicle we are given to travel to higher realms.

[AsianAtHeart]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

Was Jesus born on this day or has this date been assigned to counter the pagan winter solstice celebrations that used to happen in those times... 

 

"Although most Christians celebrate December 25 as the birthday of Jesus Christ, few in the first two Christian centuries claimed any knowledge of the exact day or year in which he was born. The oldest existing record of a Christmas celebration is found in a Roman almanac that tells of a Christ’s Nativity festival led by the church of Rome in 336 A.D. The precise reason why Christmas came to be celebrated on December 25 remains obscure, but most researchers believe that Christmas originated as a Christian substitute for pagan celebrations of the winter solstice".

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/christ-is-born

 

I do recall reading somewhere that the person who was most likely to be Jesus was actually born in March, but I can't find any references to back that up anywhere. 

Jesus was most probably born in September-October, by my calculations.  As we all know, babies do not always come exactly on due date, so the exact date cannot be determined.

 

How do we know?

 

The Bible gives us some fairly specific information regarding the courses of the priests.  Zachariah, the father of John the Baptist, was in the course of Abia (Abijah in the OT) (see Luke 1:5).  King David is the one who had first established the courses for the priests (see 1 Chronicles 23:6 and 28:21).  There were 24 courses (see 1 Chronicles 24), of which the course of Abijah was the eighth.  This practice was continued (see 2 Chronicles 8:14; 2 Chronicles 23:8; and 2 Chronicles 31:2).  If the year were divided evenly among the courses, as we see done elsewhere, such as in 1 Kings 4:7, the courses would each serve for about two weeks.  Being of the eighth course, Zechariah would have served the last half of the fourth month.  When Mary conceived, her cousin Elisabeth was already six months' pregnant.  Based, however, on the dates for Elisabeth's and Zechariah's son John, we have only to trace back those six months to find the most probable time of Jesus' birth.

 

Passover was the 14th day of the first month.  Today, many call it Easter.  That is in March.  Add three months to when Zechariah served, and we arrive at June.  If Elisabeth became pregnant within a couple weeks after his service had finished, it would have been about June-July.  Add nine months and we arrive at March-April.  John would have been born in the spring, close to Passover time.  Six months later we arrive at September-October.

 

One thing's for sure: December 25 is NOT Jesus' birthday.

 

[yodsak]

[mauGR1]

13 minutes ago, yodsak said:

They cannot say how old is the Sphinx, but they can say how old is the Universe.

Yep, it makes sense

[AsianAtHeart]

@yodsak, an expanding universe does not prove nor establish the Big Bang theory.  I might agree with the expansion idea, but true science is that which is done in a laboratory under certain predictable and controlled conditions.  The Big Bang cannot be tested.  It cannot be proven.  And the evidence to controvert it is growing, even if you choose not to look at it.

 

Feel free to put your trust in a Big Bang.  God has given you that freedom, even if you refuse to acknowledge that He exists.  I will choose to believe in an even Bigger "bang": "By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." (Psalm 33:6) "For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast." (vs. 9).

[mauGR1]

18 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

As it turns out, this might not be too far off the target!

I just read a research paper by a Norwegian scientist who experimented on chicken. Some of the chicken had to live in a stressful environment for a period of time and then put back in a relaxing environment. The chicks born later had the same behavioral deficiencies their parents showed when they were tested, even though they never experienced that stressful time themselves. 
This had to do with changes in the DNA, showing that evolution doesn't just happen by selecting the fittest, but also through changes in the environment. 
And if chicken DNA can be changed like that, human DNA could be changed just as well.
What we do and how we live today, truly affects our children and grandchildren.

As i was playing with google, i came across "genetic memory" and "epigenetics", which seems to be quite a developing field of science.

 

[Skeptic7]

8 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Was Jesus born on this day or has this date been assigned to counter the pagan winter solstice celebrations that used to happen in those times... 

 

"Although most Christians celebrate December 25 as the birthday of Jesus Christ, few in the first two Christian centuries claimed any knowledge of the exact day or year in which he was born. The oldest existing record of a Christmas celebration is found in a Roman almanac that tells of a Christ’s Nativity festival led by the church of Rome in 336 A.D. The precise reason why Christmas came to be celebrated on December 25 remains obscure, but most researchers believe that Christmas originated as a Christian substitute for pagan celebrations of the winter solstice".

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/christ-is-born

 

I do recall reading somewhere that the person who was most likely to be Jesus was actually born in March, but I can't find any references to back that up anywhere. 

You are correct. Though an exact date of birth is unknown, most agree it wasn't in December and more likely in the Springtime...IF he actually existed at all. 

[luckyluke]

On 12/24/2019 at 8:17 AM, CMNightRider said:

 

 

For those who are unfortunate enough to pass away before figuring out the Bible is the word of God with no errors, you will have an eternity of regret.  We have until our last breath to accept Jesus Christ as our savior.  After that it is a done deal.

 

 

It is you who will have an eternal regret when God will punish you to be intolerant, and to claim that He only loves some, and not everyone who try to do good and not bad intentionally. 

Repent before it is too late. 

 

 

[mauGR1]

10 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

It is you who will have an eternal regret when God will punish you to be intolerant, and to claim that He only loves some, and not everyone who try to do good and not bad intentionally. 

Repent before it is too late. 

 

 

From a very recent Pope's speech:

"God loves even those who make a complete mess of things"

Although not a great fan of the Pope, this time i have to agree with him. ????

 

[Yinn]

Mohamed was a real person.

was Jesus Christ a real person?

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Mohamed was a real person.

was Jesus Christ a real person?

Hello, welcome to the circus.

Did you meet Mohamed ? I thought you were younger ????

 

[Yinn]

5 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Hello, welcome to the circus.

Did you meet Mohamed ? I thought you were younger ????

 

 

I try to research. Some say Jesus is a man sure. Some say no.

https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/did-jesus-exist/

 

 

i not believe in God.

just curious about Jesus. Quite confusing.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Yinn said:

 

I try to research. Some say Jesus is a man sure. Some say no.

https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/did-jesus-exist/

 

 

i not believe in God.

just curious about Jesus. Quite confusing.

He existed, if you ask me.

He can be compared to Buddha.

Mohamed also existed i think, but i don't know him and his history very well.

[ivor bigun]

13 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

He existed, if you ask me.

He can be compared to Buddha.

Mohamed also existed i think, but i don't know him and his history very well.

Well i can see differences between them Jesus and Buddha preached basically love and understanding ,neither ever got married ,while Mohamed got married divorced ,was a leader of an army who killed and subjucated people ,then married a six year old girl.

if i did  believe in a God i know who i would follow and I reckon old Buddah was the best bet ,followed by Jesus.. 

Edited December 25, 2019 by ivor bigun

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, ivor bigun said:

Well i can see differences between them Jesus and Buddha preached basically love and understanding ,neither ever got married ,while Mohamed got married divorced ,was a leader of an army who killed and subjucated people ,then married a six year old girl.

if i did believe in a God i know who i would follow . 

Yep, i didn't compare Mohamed to Jesus and Buddha.

As i said, i don't know much about Mohamed, but as in the case of Jesus, i would guess that his name and his words have been exploited by unscrupulous people.

[AsianAtHeart]

1 hour ago, Yinn said:

 

I try to research. Some say Jesus is a man sure. Some say no.

https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/did-jesus-exist/

 

 

i not believe in God.

just curious about Jesus. Quite confusing.

 Well, @Yinn the atheists are probably not so unbiased on this one.

 

Few historians would truly question Jesus' life history, because there are records of it even outside of the Bible.  A well-known historian, Flavius Josephus, wrote about Jesus, though, influenced by the Jews who never accepted Jesus as the promised Messiah to be sent from God, Josephus seems to count Jesus as more of a great philosopher.

 

A Roman historian is quoted on History.com as follows:

 

Quote

Another account of Jesus appears in Annals of Imperial Rome, a first-century history of the Roman Empire written around 116 A.D. by the Roman senator and historian Tacitus. In chronicling the burning of Rome in 64 A.D., Tacitus mentions that Emperor Nero falsely blamed “the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius.”

See more of their evidence here: https://www.history.com/news/was-jesus-real-historical-evidence

Or here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

I think it is likely that we have as much or more evidence of Jesus' existence as Buddhists have for that of Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha).  They are quite different, though.

 

• While Jesus died as an innocent for crimes He did not commit; Siddhartha Gautama died from eating infected pork.
• While Jesus taught that He is the way, the truth, and the life; Siddhartha told his disciples that he could not help them reach enlightenment, but that each must find his own way.
• While Jesus was resurrected on the third day of His death; Siddhartha still rests in peace.

But did you know this?  Siddhartha Gautama prophesied about Jesus.  He lived around 500 years before Christ was born and he predicted Christ's coming--though not by name, but by description (he probably didn't know what Jesus' name would be).

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

But did you know this?  Siddhartha Gautama prophesied about Jesus.  He lived around 500 years before Christ was born and he predicted Christ's coming--though not by name, but by description (he probably didn't know what Jesus' name would be)

Interesting. How did Buddha describe Jesus?

A thought about your second point: if we assume that Jesus was fully awakened (which seems more than plausible), the "I" would not be our normal "I", but more likely the identification with the Supreme "I"...not the ego driven I, but the cosmic I.
This would kind of change the meaning of that point.

[oldhippy]

This thread is getting "far out" as we used to say in the sixties.

But then again, it's inevitable with one way conversations like this.

Have fun you believers.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, oldhippy said:

This thread is getting "far out" as we used to say in the sixties.

But then again, it's inevitable with one way conversations like this.

Have fun you believers.

 

"Far out" is relative to the position of the observer....I haven't even started to talk about the real far out stuff! ????
I don't think it's one way at all...so far we have 2 extremists and a nice bunch of moderates from either side. You're welcome to add your point of view if you think it'll bring more balance in the conversation.

[oldhippy]

12 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

"Far out" is relative to the position of the observer....I haven't even started to talk about the real far out stuff! ????
I don't think it's one way at all...so far we have 2 extremists and a nice bunch of moderates from either side. You're welcome to add your point of view if you think it'll bring more balance in the conversation.

Do I understand correctly?

I say 1 + 1 = 2

Others say no, it is 25 / 300 / north east / gthmn.

I am the extremist then?

I can live with that.

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by oldhippy
.

[Sunmaster]

34 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Do I understand correctly?

I say 1 + 1 = 2

Others say no, it is 25 / 300 / north east / gthmn.

I am the extremist then?

I don't know what you're talking about....
An extremist is someone who thinks he's the guardian of the only Truth and won't listen to anyone else, tries to ridicule, or in some cases threatens others with hell.
If you don't believe in God, that's totally fine. As long as you can make your points in a clear and respectful manner, nobody will call you an extremist. I think I'm talking for everybody here.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Sunmaster

[Skeptic7]

4 hours ago, Yinn said:

Mohamed was a real person.

was Jesus Christ a real person?

Don't know that either of them ever existed. 

[oldhippy]

14 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I don't know what you're talking about....
An extremist is someone who thinks he's the guardian of the only Truth and won't listen to anyone else, ridiculing, or in some cases threatens others with hell.
If you don't believe in God, that's totally fine. As long as you can make your points in a clear and respectful manner, nobody will call you an extremist. I think I'm talking for everybody here.

There are posters here that claim that not only there is a person-god, but also claim that they know his name and they know what he wants.

They are the extremists.

They deserve ridicule, not respect.

Being born in a christian country, they believe in jesus. If their name was Ali, Indirah, Ioannis, Thorguld,... they would just as sternly believe in a different god and the things that their god wants.

 

Then there are those who define god as a higher power that explains everyting that science can not yet explain. However they cannot explain god.

Explaining something by referring to something they can not explain seems strange to me.

But they are harmless, I have a diferent opinion, and as long as they don't interfere with other people's life I have no problems with them.