8 hours ago, OmegaRacer said:

One is not better than the other

Yes one is better  and  this  is  mostly gobbledey  gook. Even  more vagueness.

Unlike religion science is sometimes  wrong, its there  to be tested, religion is  not even though science has on too  many occasions proven it  wrong.

 

6 hours ago, OmegaRacer said:

<sup>They say God has created man in his image, when in truth it's the other way around. 
We have personified God in our image. 

And to answer the post above. There is only one way to prove the existence of Spirit, but you have to do it on your own. You can't rely on a book or on a belief system (aka BS). Some people might steer you in the right direction, but it's you who has to make the first step, wrestle with your own shadow, peel the onion layers until you find who you truly are. Once you know that, you'll know what "God" is.</sup>

^{I honestly don't understand why so many people are content with "believing" when there are so many ways to "knowing". I guess it's just easier.}

THis  is  about as  vague as you cna  possibly  get and brings  nothing to the discussion.

11 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

When is the last time someone forced you to accept religion ?

Try  going to some of those middle  eastern countries.

14 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Spirituality

Total  mumbo  jumbo,  again no  such thing has any proof  whatsoever, except  of  course in "belief" and "Faith"

The Sciences, through the rigorous process known as The Scientific Method, provide the best explanations of how we, the world and the universe functions based on testable and repeatable results. From that information and those observations, predictions can be made so to further support the case and expand our knowledge and understanding. Many times it doesn't all work and further experimentation is needed until the strict necessary requirements are met. Even when it all works perfectly, science is ALWAYS open to new information and more evidence that could lead to an even more accurate explanations. Unlike religious dogma, which is CLOSED, rigid, hates to be questioned and denies many if the realities of our natural world.

 

Science has answered so many questions and solved so many problems and mysteries. Providing answers, knowledge, cures, understanding and incredible achievements. 

 

EVERY time...without fail...answers and solutions are natural. The more we've learned, solved, understand and accomplished...NOT once, ever...has the answer been a god. 

48 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

The Sciences, through the rigorous process known as The Scientific Method, provide the best explanations of how we, the world and the universe functions based on testable and repeatable results. From that information and those observations, predictions can be made so to further support the case and expand our knowledge and understanding. Many times it doesn't all work and further experimentation is needed until the strict necessary requirements are met. Even when it all works perfectly, science is ALWAYS open to new information and more evidence that could lead to an even more accurate explanations. Unlike religious dogma, which is CLOSED, rigid, hates to be questioned and denies many if the realities of our natural world.

 

Science has answered so many questions and solved so many problems and mysteries. Providing answers, knowledge, cures, understanding and incredible achievements. 

 

EVERY time...without fail...answers and solutions are natural. The more we've learned, solved, understand and accomplished...NOT once, ever...has the answer been a god. 

Except in Science class at a Jesuit boys school.  I think they called it Apologetics. 

 

And if you didn't believe they beat you till you did and when you begged at home to transfer you to a normal public school your parents beat you some more.  And they dropped you off at grannies house to recuperate and she prayed over you hoping you would change and telling you stories about no atheists in foxholes.  Of course there were millions of atheists in foxholes but granny didn't know any Chinese people. 

19 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

EVERY time...without fail...answers and solutions are natural. The more we've learned, solved, understand and accomplished...NOT once, ever...has the answer been a god. 

 

Which is why, over the decades, my attention has turned to why such belief came about, At present I consider it not so much as a symptom of inquisitiveness, rather a side effect of inquisitiveness but I'm open to new knowledge that could change my mind. Our species seeks patterns which we use to consider the future whilst at the same time disliking not having an answer to said patterns. This dislike causes us to insert any answer even if it's a junk answer which is fortified by, or due to, us seeing patterns where none exist. We pride ourselves as something special when in fact we are, as a species, quite gullible, easily led, lazy and fond of praise... even self praise. Pascal, in his pensees, spoke of those who cannot be brought to believe which implies a body of people who can be brought to believe in something without reason. Much of this comes down to a willingness or unwillingness to accept not knowing. A stamp of our lowly origin. 

More people have died and are dying because of religion than have ever been saved by it 

 

17 minutes ago, 5633572526 said:

More people have died and are dying because of religion than have ever been saved by it 

That's quite debatable, do you have any numbers ?

16 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Nothing without evidence yet you want to "believe", in which case with no evidence anything I say should be as  valid to you. This means with no evidence you have to accept everything anyone says no  matter how crazy.

You removed the context from my quote 

Forum rules

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

2 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

Which is why, over the decades, my attention has turned to why such belief came about, At present I consider it not so much as a symptom of inquisitiveness, rather a side effect of inquisitiveness but I'm open to new knowledge that could change my mind. Our species seeks patterns which we use to consider the future whilst at the same time disliking not having an answer to said patterns. This dislike causes us to insert any answer even if it's a junk answer which is fortified by, or due to, us seeing patterns where none exist. We pride ourselves as something special when in fact we are, as a species, quite gullible, easily led, lazy and fond of praise... even self praise. Pascal, in his pensees, spoke of those who cannot be brought to believe which implies a body of people who can be brought to believe in something without reason. Much of this comes down to a willingness or unwillingness to accept not knowing. A stamp of our lowly origin. 

Lets face it, original man feared everything and thought if he worshiped the gods of rain, sun, etc etc etc they would save them from a horrible death. Before they worked out that the "gods" never saved them from anything the men in funny hats had made it obligatory to be a "believer" so they could get rich and eat well.

Religion and spirituality are completely different beasts.

14 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The extremists in Islam do exactly the same thing, picking the the bits they like. Plenty of bloodthirsty stuff in the Koran.

Creationists and intelligent design IMHO are a pathetic attempt to accommodate evolution while simultaneously trying  to shove it under the carpet.

"Plenty of bloodthirsty stuff in the Koran", most of it copied from the Bible (Old Testament).

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

1 hour ago, 5633572526 said:

More people have died and are dying because of religion than have ever been saved by it 

That's quite debatable, do you have any numbers ?

Quote

The Thirty Years’ War was a 17th-century religious conflict fought primarily in central Europe. It remains one of the longest and most brutal wars in human history, with more than 8 million casualties resulting from military battles as well as from the famine and disease caused by the conflict. The war lasted from 1618 to 1648, starting as a battle among the Catholic and Protestant states that formed the Holy Roman Empire.

https://www.history.com/topics/reformation/thirty-years-war

any equivalent number of being saved by religion?

On 4/15/2019 at 1:30 PM, Kwasaki said:

Yeah religions interesting subject so many but as said if some people find comfort " so be it " Amen.

 

I fit in as a sort of agnostic type not an atheist. 

 

Remember talking in a congenial way to a Jehovah witness and he said I would burn in Hell, well I said, seeing as I want to be cremated in my demise it don't really matter does it.  ????

Rubbish.  I was brought up as a Jehovah's Witness by my mother - and they don't believe in hell!

17 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

When is the last time someone forced you to accept religion ?

When I felt strong enough to stand up for myself at the age of 15 (IIRC).

 

I'd spent the previous few years arguing about having to go to 'meetings' and 'assemblies' - but until then I hadn't felt brave enough to outright refuse.....

 

Sadly, I still have nightmares (even though it's nearly 50 years later.....) about the 'fight' ☹️.

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

When I felt strong enough to stand up for myself at the age of 15 (IIRC).

 

I'd spent the previous few years arguing about having to go to 'meetings' and 'assemblies' - but until then I hadn't felt brave enough to outright refuse.....

 

Sadly, I still have nightmares (even though it's nearly 50 years later.....) about the 'fight' ☹️.

I have a similar history, like most of the people, around 14 or 15 they take their life "in their hands" so to speak.

When travelling to India aged 19, after some Hindu monk told me that Jesus is incarnation of Rama, i realised the difference between 'spirituality' and 'organised religion'.

I embrace the former, but i have mixed feelings about the latter.

13 hours ago, OmegaRacer said:

<sup>They say God has created man in his image, when in truth it's the other way around. 
We have personified God in our image. 

And to answer the post above. There is only one way to prove the existence of Spirit, but you have to do it on your own. You can't rely on a book or on a belief system (aka BS). Some people might steer you in the right direction, but it's you who has to make the first step, wrestle with your own shadow, peel the onion layers until you find who you truly are. Once you know that, you'll know what "God" is.</sup>

^{I honestly don't understand why so many people are content with "believing" when there are so many ways to "knowing". I guess it's just easier.}

 

6 hours ago, gunderhill said:

THis  is  about as  vague as you cna  possibly  get and brings  nothing to the discussion.

To be fair, this sounds 100% correct IMO:-

 

^{"They say God has created man in his image, when in truth it's the other way around. 
We have personified God in our image."}

6 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Yes one is better  and  this  is  mostly gobbledey  gook. Even  more vagueness.

Unlike religion science is sometimes  wrong, its there  to be tested, religion is  not even though science has on too  many occasions proven it  wrong.

 

Again, you mistake religion with spirituality. 
Science considered acupuncture as "gobbledey gook" for a long time, now it is taught to doctors all over the world and guess what...it works. But how? After all the whole acupuncture system is based on energy lines in our body that can't be seen or touched, yet have been mapped (without science) a long time before traditional science was even established. hmm
Of course religion has been proven wrong. You don't need to be a (rocket) scientist to understand that the world wasn't created in 7 days, do you?

 

6 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Total  mumbo  jumbo,  again no  such thing has any proof  whatsoever, except  of  course in "belief" and "Faith"

It's quite funny and ironic that you would say that. 
Scientists are required to keep an open and inquisitive mind, yet here you are, dismissing millennia of spiritual practice of millions and millions of people with just "mumbo jumbo". Convenient, isn't it?
What valuable insights have you brought to the discussion?

 

Why not start to meditate and find out by yourself?

 

On 4/14/2019 at 10:10 PM, CharlieH said:

Can we not appear to "mock" others religion please. 

 

 

 

 

Are you making a request?

 

16 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

Strange that the god believed is almost always the same as the god believed by parents and/or culture one is raised in.

 

 

56 minutes ago, Naam said:

any equivalent number of being saved by religion?

We know some facts of history, but we have no way to know how history would have been taking god and religion out of the equation.

There is no way to change the past.

I think that we live in the "best possible world".

No! Why not? Infinity probably excludes any concrete proof. So perhaps infinity is due some respect, at least, and might even be that the nearest we ever get to God/god. (Review that term in reverse.) When talking on this site about our own widespread incompetence, we are probably still better off talking about the role of commonsense/personal experience rather than wittering on about the hand (paw) of God.

31 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

spiritual practice of millions and millions

More  nonsense, what exactly is "spiritual"  show the evidence for  a "spirit", Numbers  mean nothing doesnt  matter if its  billions or  trillions "believing"

Oh yeah and meths and alcohol dont count as "spirits"???? especially if  you are a muslim.

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You removed the context from my quote 

Forum rules

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

golly gosh smack my hands  till they bleed, or....nail me to a  cross, it  would be more  fitting .????

3 hours ago, 5633572526 said:

More people have died and are dying because of religion than have ever been saved by it 

I  think mosquitos  killed  way  more, but that's ok because god  loves  us  all even the worse diseases under the sun are his (  note   almost all god always  male) blessing to us.

9 minutes ago, Mexlark said:

personal experience

You cant really rely on "personal experience" thats  how  many  of these crackpot  religions started in the first  place.

Does anyone else remember Dave Allen's irreverence..?

 

His closing comment on every show was "Goodnight, and may YOUR god go with you"......

 

 

6 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

More  nonsense, what exactly is "spiritual"  show the evidence for  a "spirit", Numbers  mean nothing doesnt  matter if its  billions or  trillions "believing"

Maybe you are hearing me but you're not listening.
You can find " evidence" of Spirit if you look for it, not with microscopes and anal probes, but with the right tools: meditation, introspection. The evidence is there for all to find, but of course, you'll just say it's nonsense and be done with it.

Still waiting for your valuable contribution to the discussion. ????

3 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

You cant really rely on "personal experience" thats  how  many  of these crackpot  religions started in the first  place.

Can you rely on your own personal experience?