3 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Does anyone else remember Dave Allen's irreverence..?

 

His closing comment on every show was "Goodnight, and may YOUR god go with you"......

 

 

Yes, mine was a Pontiac....????

3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Can you rely on your own personal experience?

 

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Maybe you are hearing me but you're not listening.
You can find " evidence" of Spirit if you look for it, not with microscopes and anal probes, but with the right tools: meditation, introspection. The evidence is there for all to find, but of course, you'll just say it's nonsense and be done with it.

Still waiting for your valuable contribution to the discussion. ????

But there you go again now let me guess  "i  just need to open my  mind" or "have faith" etc etc.

Show me the evidence thats repeatable, the fact  is there is none.

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Maybe you are hearing me but you're not listening.
You can find " evidence" of Spirit if you look for it, not with microscopes and anal probes, but with the right tools: meditation, introspection. The evidence is there for all to find, but of course, you'll just say it's nonsense and be done with it.

Still waiting for your valuable contribution to the discussion. ????

Can folk be hypnotized by a human....?

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Can you rely on your own personal experience?

I  would  seek corroborative advice and not really on my own "vision" and that  doesnt mean from  billions who just have "faith"

The  human brain is well able  to  hallucinate and fabricate the world  around it.

1 minute ago, gunderhill said:

 

But there you go again now let me guess  "i  just need to open my  mind" or "have faith" etc etc

Absolutely not!
Don't have faith, find out by yourself! That's the whole point of Spirituality.

Do a test, sit down, close your eyes and see how long you can go without a thought popping up. Try
 

22 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

You cant really rely on "personal experience" thats  how  many  of these crackpot  religions started in the first  place.

Now try to stop me. ???? It's a fundamental human right to <deleted> up and have crackpoint ideas. I am also free to call my own ideas crackpot, and frequently do. You can always do the same. I am at least partly responsible/answerable for my actions. God's actions are unquestioned, ..... by some. Although not believing in God/god, why I should want to question his/her/its/their actions, *** only knows! 'Right' is a bit open to debate as well. But if I want to rely on something I naively perceive as 'personal experience', who can stop me. :-) It might give you something to laugh about, but that is always a positive thing.

Just now, Sunmaster said:

Absolutely not!
Don't have faith, find out by yourself! That's the whole point of Spirituality.

Do a test, sit down, close your eyes and see how long you can go without a thought popping up. Try
 

There are  more important  things  to do than closing my eyes in the day, I do that every  night its  called "sleeping".

Even dreams can be manipulated, spray  water on a sleeping  persons  face and when they wake  up they will tell you how they were at sea or getting splashed by whatever in their dreams.

 

3 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

I  would  seek corroborative advice and not really on my own "vision" and that  doesnt mean from  billions who just have "faith"

The  human brain is well able  to  hallucinate and fabricate the world  around it.

I agree. You do that, and maybe you find out that your vision was not as crazy and meaningless as you might think and that others had similar visions, and can repeat those visions at will. 

 

5 minutes ago, transam said:

Can folk be hypnotized by a human....?

Dunno but I'm slipping into a  trance  reading some of the mumbo  jumbo????

Just now, Sunmaster said:

I agree. You do that, and maybe you find out that your vision was not as crazy and meaningless as you might think and that others had similar visions, and can repeat those visions at will. 

 

What does "having a  vision"  have to do with a god? apart from creating yet another fantasy being.

More important things than knowing who you really are?
I can't think of anything even remotely as important.

Sleeping is very different from a deep meditative state. Even science can easily measure that.

7 minutes ago, Mexlark said:

God's actions are unquestioned,

Well you  cant question something that doesn't exist.

1 minute ago, gunderhill said:

What does "having a  vision"  have to do with a god? apart from creating yet another fantasy being.

It has a lot to do with it. I would be glad to explain it to you but I fear I would just waste my time.

9 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

More  nonsense, what exactly is "spiritual"  show the evidence for  a "spirit", Numbers  mean nothing doesnt  matter if its  billions or  trillions "believing"

You are confusing again organised religion with spirituality.

Personally i regard science as evidence of the spirit, but honestly, i won't make much effort to convince you.

Just now, Sunmaster said:

It has a lot to do with it. I would be glad to explain it to you but I fear I would just waste my time.

So its  back to the "you  just dont understand, have faith, see for  yourself" nothingness answers.

You can't  prove to me there is a spirit or a God but  I'll happily  look at the evidence and not vagueness.

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

You are confusing again organised religion with spirituality.

Personally i regard science as evidence of the spirit, but honestly, i won't make much effort to convince you.

Im really  not confused I didnt drag "spirituality" into the God debate,  this is just another  fallback position.

5 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

More important things than knowing who you really are?

Why do you feel the need to "know who you are"

1 minute ago, gunderhill said:

Why do you feel the need to "know who you are"

It's one of the most important questions, i have a sneaky feeling that you are on denial.

At the end of the day, if there is a god I would spit in his eye if I were able to meet him, for allowing such cruelty in the world 'he' apparently created, and (having absolute control/powers) could prevent......

 

But of course I'll never be allowed near 'him' for having these views ????.

1 minute ago, gunderhill said:

Why do you feel the need to "know who you are"

Finally a good question.

 

I guess it's because I'm a curious person, I want to know why I am the way I am. That includes my upbringing, my relationships to my parents, the psychological strategies I developed growing up, how all that influences me and my surrounding. 
The deeper you go, the more you find. And when you go deep enough, you'll see that we are not living in a bubble, cut off from the world, but we are all connected. Everything is connected.
Spirituality is just a word that describes this quest for knowledge. 
To find yourself is to find God.

10 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

Well you  cant question something that doesn't exist.

i can if I want, ..... and will. But most dogs here seem to be barking up the same tree, anyway

7 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Finally a good question.

 

I guess it's because I'm a curious person, I want to know why I am the way I am. That includes my upbringing, my relationships to my parents, the psychological strategies I developed growing up, how all that influences me and my surrounding. 
The deeper you go, the more you find. And when you go deep enough, you'll see that we are not living in a bubble, cut off from the world, but we are all connected. Everything is connected.
Spirituality is just a word that describes this quest for knowledge. 
To find yourself is to find God.

If that is your personal experience, i can connect with that. Temporarily, at least. But probably not for infinity. (Here endeth the inadvisable forum posting session of the day/week/month/year/lifetime)

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

At the end of the day, if there is a god I would spit in his eye if I were able to meet him, for allowing such cruelty in the world 'he' apparently created, and (having absolute control/powers) could prevent......

 

But of course I'll never be allowed near 'him' for having these views ????.

No way i want convince you of anything, but good and bad ( or the dual judgement) are nothing else than  "tools of knowledge" in this specific reality ; you cannot have the day without the night and so on.

I'm told that there are ways to reach more evolved realities, but then, you'll have to "open the door" by yourself.

 

3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Finally a good question.

 

I guess it's because I'm a curious person, I want to know why I am the way I am. That includes my upbringing, my relationships to my parents, the psychological strategies I developed growing up, how all that influences me and my surrounding. 
The deeper you go, the more you find. And when you go deep enough, you'll see that we are not living in a bubble, cut off from the world, but we are all connected. Everything is connected.
Spirituality is just a word that describes this quest for knowledge. 
To find yourself is to find God.

I am interested in the way I behave and why I am the person I am. Things that happened to me or around me that have had an impact on my behaviour, etc. But I do not associate that with spirituality or a quest to find something I do not believe in.  I am interested because I am inquisitive by nature. I like learning, gathering knowledge and new perspectives. Pure and simple. Not for "spiritual" reasons. It has naff all to do with spirituality.    

15 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

It's one of the most important questions, i have a sneaky feeling that you are on denial.

Of what...?

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

No way i want convince you of anything, but good and bad ( or the dual judgement) are nothing else than  "tools of knowledge" in this specific reality ; you cannot have the day without the night and so on.

I'm told that there are ways to reach more evolved realities, but then, you'll have to "open the door" by yourself.

 

I don't much care about "evolved realities" - as I prefer to live a life trying not to cause harm.

 

Hopefully I'll find out that our 'soul' is just 'energy that is part of the universe' - but of course, it's impossible to know.

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I don't much care about "evolved realities" - as I prefer to live a life trying not to cause harm.

 

Hopefully I'll find out that our 'soul' is just 'energy that is part of the universe' - but of course, it's impossible to know.

For sure all "gods" creatures that we kull every day to eat may have the same thoughts....????

6 minutes ago, transam said:

For sure all "gods" creatures that we kull every day to eat may have the same thoughts....????

I see no reason to differentiate between human and other animals' souls.

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I see no reason to differentiate between human and other animals' souls.

Yes, they are built with much the same things as us, they even have a brain to do what they want to a different degree......But we kill 'em.....Humans think that is OK cos their brains are not on the same level as humans, but I could contest that theory...????

25 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

To find yourself is to find God

I found the god who is called God when I was very young (+/- 12). 

 

I didn't like him. 

 

Since then I live well without him, I am 70+ now. 

 

Others may of course have another experience.