54 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The Arabs at the time of the start of Islam believed that Jesus existed and that he was a prophet.

Thats a considrable time later. And certainly not a contemporaneous or nearly so proof of the existance of Jesus, which is how the Josephus quote is used by Christian apologists

 

50 minutes ago, geronimo said:

First off, a big shout to Ivor for creating a thread that seems to live forever,

 

Regarding faith, science is now proving that the power of the human conscious is awesome and indeed exists. It matters not whether your faith is real or not; only that you believe.

 

We all have this power, yet so few actually know how to use it and even fewer know of its existence.

"It matters not whether your faith is real or not; only that you believe."

 

I don't understand. What do you mean?

25 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Perhaps this person simply has seen no proof of spiritual realities, nor been offered any proofs. You are asking him to take an unreasonable jump in reasoning to simply accept your primise IMO.

No one is asking him to do anything he doesn't want to.

3 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

"It matters not whether your faith is real or not; only that you believe."

 

I don't understand. What do you mean?

What I mean is the human conscious is very powerful and if you believe in something enough, you can do almost anything. It matters not whether or not that belief is a real source, only that you believe it.

 

Check out some of the latest research on quantum physics and the human conscious, and the connections.

Edited January 29, 20206 yr by geronimo

1 minute ago, WalkingOrders said:

"It matters not whether your faith is real or not; only that you believe."

 

I don't understand. What do you mean?

To have faith one must believe, to believe is to have faith.

 

If you can't understand, I doubt any can explain it. No one was ever educated into faith. It comes from within, not without.

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To have faith one must believe, to believe is to have faith.

 

If you can't understand, I doubt any can explain it. No one was ever educated into faith. It comes from within, not without.

and it is the belief that is powerful ...

Just now, geronimo said:

What I mean is the human conscious is very powerful and if you believe in something enough, you can do almost anything. It matters not whether or not that belief is a real source, only that you believe it.

There are many examples of belief healing- the placebo effect.

Some people will die if a witch doctor tells them they are going to ( in the past if not now ).

53 minutes ago, Tagged said:

And we are back to you, me, us and them. Faith comes from inside out, and maybe not a superpower who control our mind, or influence our mind. 

 

 

We are talking about faith here. My faith is in Jesus Christ son of God. The entire claim is based on faith that my faith comes from God as a gift. This is Christian theology. What faith are you talking about, faith in what?

1 minute ago, WalkingOrders said:

We are talking about faith here. My faith is in Jesus Christ son of God. The entire claim is based on faith that my faith comes from God as a gift. This is Christian theology. What faith are you talking about, faith in what?

It matters not whether Jesus is a god or not, only that you believe he is. Faith can come from any angle, a person can believe that they are unbeatable, and they are! We all possess incredible potential but hardly any of us know that. Read a book called The Secret.

To make it even simpler ...

 

it isn't what you believe in that is powerful it is your belief!

13 minutes ago, geronimo said:

What I mean is the human conscious is very powerful and if you believe in something enough, you can do almost anything. It matters not whether or not that belief is a real source, only that you believe it.

 

Check out some of the latest research on quantum physics and the human conscious, and the connections.

I see. In this instance you are discussing faith, as something other then faith in a diety. The faith under discussion here is the power of the mind of an individual to accomplish, such as a pole vaulter visualizing he can get over 6 meters, or other similiar analogies. Yeah, thats an interesting topic.

16 minutes ago, geronimo said:

It matters not whether Jesus is a god or not, only that you believe he is. Faith can come from any angle, a person can believe that they are unbeatable, and they are! We all possess incredible potential but hardly any of us know that. Read a book called The Secret.

I have read the Secret. I wish to be clear on something though, what you are discussing as faith ( and I am not arguing with you on any of your contentions) is considered as a different type of faith, then faith in God, in Catholic theology, which is how I have been discussing faith in this thread as belief in God or lack of it, has been a central point throughout.

 

Catholic theology (for sake of discussion) considers faith in Christ to be a mystery, that is a gift from God. While recognizing a different kind of faith, that comes from within that would be the type of faith that enables one to persevere in quests, etc.

16 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

I see. In this instance you are discussing faith, as something other then faith in a diety. The faith under discussion here is the power of the mind of an individual to accomplish, such as a pole vaulter visualizing he can get over 6 meters, or other similiar analogies. Yeah, thats an interesting topic.

They are both connected actually.

2 minutes ago, geronimo said:

They are both connected actually.

Connected yes, but earlier I think you said that it matters not what you believe in. That contradicts my view. My view incidentally on the matter of two types of faith is a Catholic teaching. I respect your view but the Secret is a heretical teaching to me. I am not attempting here to argue against your view. Our views are simply in opposition

Because of my first point, and earlier expressed view of a supernatural faith

 

1 minute ago, WalkingOrders said:

Connected yes, but earlier I think you said that it matters not what you believe in. That contradicts my view. My view incidentally on the matter of two types of faith is a Catholic teaching. I respect your view but the Secret is a heretical teaching to me. I am not attempting here to argue against your view. Our views are simply in opposition

Because of my first point, and earlier expressed view of a supernatural faith

 

we can agree to disagree Sir! I'm good with that.

44 minutes ago, geronimo said:

It matters not whether Jesus is a god or not, only that you believe he is. Faith can come from any angle, a person can believe that they are unbeatable, and they are! We all possess incredible potential but hardly any of us know that. Read a book called The Secret.

"It matters not whether Jesus is God or not, only that you believe he is"

 

I think I agree with you 100 percent on this point. 

 

I would substitute

 

"Only that you have faith that he is"

 

As I define the terms more particularly.

47 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

We are talking about faith here. My faith is in Jesus Christ son of God. The entire claim is based on faith that my faith comes from God as a gift. This is Christian theology. What faith are you talking about, faith in what?

You can not have faith in god, if its not starting with your hearth and brain. No matter how convincing scripts, gurus, profets, priests are, it have to start with you! 
 

well you can convince yourself and others you believe or have faith, but you know you are faking if you not feeling it! 
 

If you are not responsive for god or Jesus what then? 

3 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

"It matters not whether Jesus is God or not, only that you believe he is"

 

I think I agree with you 100 percent on this point. 

 

I would substitute

 

"Only that you have faith that he is"

 

As I define the terms more particularly.

even with your substitute, god doesn't have to exist if you believe he does.

56 minutes ago, geronimo said:

What I mean is the human conscious is very powerful and if you believe in something enough, you can do almost anything. It matters not whether or not that belief is a real source, only that you believe it.

Ok, but if you believe something which is not in harmony with the laws of the universe, those law will break you eventually, or at least that's what i believe.

 

 

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Ok, but if you believe something which is not in harmony with the laws of the universe, those law will break you eventually, or at least that's what i believe.

 

 

The laws of attraction are in perfect harmony with the universe ....

5 minutes ago, Tagged said:

You can not have faith in god, if its not starting with your hearth and brain. No matter how convincing scripts, gurus, profets, priests are, it have to start with you! 
 

well you can convince yourself and others you believe or have faith, but you know you are faking if you not feeling it! 
 

If you are not responsive for god or Jesus what then? 

Yes, faith begins with a person who begins to talk to God  and ask for faith. This in the context of Christianity. I do not understand your last sentence.

 

"If you are not responsive for god or jesus what then?"

 

Can you please restate this for clarity.

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Ok, but if you believe something which is not in harmony with the laws of the universe, those law will break you eventually, or at least that's what i believe.

 

 

Now you talking ????????

1 minute ago, WalkingOrders said:

Yes, faith begins with a person who begins to talk to God  and ask for faith. This in the context of Christianity. I do not understand your last sentence.

 

"If you are not responsive for god or jesus what then?"

 

Can you please restate this for clarity.

If you want to have faith, but you just not open for it, do not feel, do not understand, how to be true to your feelings, when your concious tell you this is wrong. Is it satan who stops you? 
 

And if you still call yourself christian, you know you are lying. 
 

resoonsive - receptive? Prone to?

 

16 minutes ago, geronimo said:

The laws of attraction are in perfect harmony with the universe ....

That sounds so nice, but can you please elaborate a bit ?

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

That sounds so nice, but can you please elaborate a bit ?

We all attract thing to us, those with a negative outlook attract negativity and those with a positive outlook attract positivity. Have you ever wondered why the guy who is always complaining has one problem after another?

Edited January 29, 20206 yr by geronimo

4 minutes ago, Tagged said:

If you want to have faith, but you just not open for it, do not feel, do not understand, how to be true to your feelings, when your concious tell you this is wrong. Is it satan who stops you? 
 

And if you still call yourself christian, you know you are lying. 
 

resoonsive - receptive? Prone to?

 

Discussing your first paragraph. Please define. Faith in what? God? Jesus Christ?

 

At the end of the paragraph you bring up Satan. Is is sarcasm? Or is that the question you are asking?

 

You follow with a pronouncement that seems to claim that if someone has any confusion about Christian faith, or what they believe they have no choice but to label themselves a liar.

 

The last three words:

Responsive? To what?

Receptive? Again to what? Faith as a gift from God? To faith in a general sense?

Prone to? Completely lost me here.

 

1 minute ago, geronimo said:

We all attract thing to us, those with a negative outlook attract negativity and those with a positive outlook attract positivity.

That's about right, i think, yet i believe it's a bit more complex than that.

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

That's about right, i think, yet i believe it's a bit more complex than that.

It is indeed, and by understanding how the laws of attraction work, you have whatever you want from life.

23 minutes ago, geronimo said:

The laws of attraction are in perfect harmony with the universe ....

Are you familiar with so called Christian prosperity doctrines?

Just now, WalkingOrders said:

Are you familiar with so called Christian prosperity doctrines?

No Sir! I am not. I was brought up a catholic and renounced it at the age of 13.