Do you believe in God and why

[Tippaporn]

57 minutes ago, sirineou said:

It is not that i believe. I do not and no one has.

I'm truly sorry to have to inform you, sirineou, that you can't have it both ways.  You cannot claim as absolute truth that access is not possible while providing no proof and simultaneously claim as absolute falsity claims by those who say they have had access while unable to provide proof.

 

It is precisely that you believe.  I've mentioned it before.  People, for the most part, do not at all understand what beliefs are.  Beliefs are more often seen not for what they are, beliefs, but as conditions of reality.  You are making that mistake when you say "it is not that I believe."  Again, your belief that access is not possible is not a condition of reality.  You are free to believe it as passionately and stubbornly as you wish but in the end it will only be your "truth."

 

57 minutes ago, sirineou said:

by that measure anything you claim is true, 

Whether one can claim anything as true or not was not the point of my question.  Answer the question.  Is it true or no?  If you don't want to answer you must at least appreciate the soundness of the logic.

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

Truth is a funny thing as well.  People try and pin it down but there may be more than a single truth . . . and most likely so.  A hint in my reply above.

[Tippaporn]

45 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Personally i am convinced that "official science" is doing a great job in brainwashing the people ????

Has anyone ever amused themselves reading from any of the current psychology blogs and sites?  Some of the worst ideas that science has to offer can be found there.  Amazing, sad and extremely humourous, all at the same time.

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Has anyone ever amused themselves reading from any of the current psychology blogs and sites?  Some of the worst ideas that science has to offer can be found there.  Amazing, sad and extremely humourous, all at the same time.

When i have some serious doubt about "reality" if i just look at the simplicity of the "Tao", things start to make some sense.

Yet, there are good points in the "science manifesto", sticking to the truth and what is real is laudable, yet one has to ask himself: Are humans the most intelligent form in the universe ?

Why not simply admit the possibility that we are not the smartest bunch of the whole universe ?

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, sirineou said:

I don't know why you keep suggesting  that it has not being looked into. and only if we looked into it.

 It has been extensively looked into. Just google "the benefits of meditation" "meditation and science"  extensively documented a lot of good information on how you can improve your life through meditation , but nothing metaphysical.

If you have some evidence please publish, but don't tell me that the only reason we have not found it is because we have not looked hard enough.

It is insulting. 

 The subject has being researched by prestigious institutions, it's benefits are well documented, further research is being done right now, No metaphysical connection has being made .

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1745691617709589

 

 

 

It has been "extensively" looked into....yeah. For a staggering 40 years? ???? 
While the "other side" has looked into it for 1000s of years. But ok...science knows best, right? ???? 
Research on consciousness is in it's infancy and there is so much confusion still, in fact you'll hardly find 2 scientists that can agree on anything in that field ....very far from the extensive research you think has been done.

What has science found by looking into it? It has found that meditation has physical and mental benefits, which are the exterior and measurable consequences of meditation. Of course they found that....yoga has been talking about them forever.
So they didn't find the spiritual connection to yoga? Big surprise. Maybe they don't have the tools to probe that field, don't you think? Does it mean it doesn't exist? Of course not, it just means science has no way to measure Spirit. 

But what would I know about Spirit? I'm no scientist after all...

Edited February 24, 2020 by Sunmaster

[Tippaporn]

40 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

When i have some serious doubt about "reality" if i just look at the simplicity of the "Tao", things start to make some sense.

Yet, there are good points in the "science manifesto", sticking to the truth and what is real is laudable, yet one has to ask himself: Are humans the most intelligent form in the universe ?

Why not simply admit the possibility that we are not the smartest bunch of the whole universe ?

Science does an excellent job of discovering how things work in the physical and turning those discoveries into practical and very useful items in the physical world.  You can't take that away from them and they deserve a great deal of credit.  The discoveries of science have lead to the invention of, for example, the toaster.  I am ecstatically pleased to no end that I have a device which allows me to warm and brown perhaps the best invention ever, sliced bread (after God, of course).  Makes it soooo much easier to spread the butter, too.

 

But they should really stick to inanimate objects.  Once they wander over into the pastures of life itself and attempt to dissect it, quantify it, categorize it, and apply all of their instrumentation with it's gauges and probes and blinking lights to discover what they're actually looking at they fail miserably.  Granted, they have made a great many giant strides in the field of medicine, which we can all be grateful for (though sometimes it seems to no avail as the hospitals are still overflowing), and all despite their view that the human body is simply a mechanical device, though a living one.  Once they delve into the human psyche, though, they are completely out of their league.  And laughably so as they attempt to use the same approaches which gained them success in other areas.  If it looks like a nail . . . 

 

BTW, from my point of view intelligence is highly overrated.  I've heard one of the dead people explain it this way, "If the earth's orbit around the sun was dependent solely on the abilities of the intellect it's orbit wouldn't last for a nanosecond."  Intelligence is only one attribute we humans possess.  Intuition is just another.  As my favourite dead guy says, the ideal approach is one in which all of our attributes are used in a blended fashion.  The intellect was never designed to go it alone.  Mankind these days tries to force it to.  Unintended consequences?  Let me count the ways . . . 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

31 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

It has been "extensively" looked into....yeah. For a staggering 40 years? ???? 
While the "other side" has looked into it for 1000s of years. But ok...science knows best, right? ???? 
Research on consciousness is in it's infancy and there is so much confusion still, in fact you'll hardly find 2 scientists that can agree on anything in that field ....very far from the extensive research you think has been done.

What has science found by looking into it? It has found that meditation has physical and mental benefits, which are the exterior and measurable consequences of meditation. Of course they found that....yoga has been talking about them forever.
So they didn't find the spiritual connection to yoga? Big surprise. Maybe they don't have the tools to probe that field, don't you think? Does it mean it doesn't exist? Of course not, it just means science has no way to measure Spirit. 

But what would I know about Spirit? I'm no scientist after all...

Gawd, I hate charts and graphs.  <yawn>

[Tippaporn]

I may as well add to one of my posts above to say that, in my opinion, it seems that the intellect's placement as the crowning attribute of the human psyche didn't occur until the advent of science.  Prior to the grand ascendancy of science if you had told your neighbor about a vision you had he would have been sincerely interested to hear.

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tippaporn

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Intelligence is only one attribute we humans possess.  Intuition is just another. 

True, all we are a mix of attributes, sometimes conflicting among them.

Personally i find that good natured people, for example, are more beneficial than intelligent people in regards of social harmony.

The fact that science developments reach great speed in times of conflicts should be something to think about.

Yet, from a spiritual point of view, we appear to get better insights when suspending the 'dualistic judgment", which is undeniably an important building block of our physical beings.

..Well, it hope it makes sense ????

[Tippaporn]

Science likes to promote itself sometimes almost as the ultimate saviour to the human race.  Interestingly, science has provided the human race with the means to completely annihilate itself (I know that seems to be a contradiction).  Rather than humankind's saviour it may well end up known in the history books as The Ultimate DeStruKtor.  LOL

 

Now, I've searched again and again to no avail to find a particular debate hosted on a rather well know televised forum which pitted a guy who had immersed his entire life into Tibetan philosophy against a scientist.  I can't recall whether the scientist was an astrophysicist or what his field of specialty was.  What I will never forget, though, is the degree of his haughtiness.  He may well have been deliberately attempting to crown himself the epitome of arrogance.  At one point during the debate he declared with utmost superiority and hubris that science had already found the answers to most everything.  All that was left was, and in his exact words, "to cross some tees and dot some eyes."  My fvckin' jaw dropped!

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tippaporn

[canuckamuck]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Science likes to promote itself sometimes almost as the ultimate saviour to the human race.  Interestingly, science has provided the human race with the means to completely annihilate itself (I know that seems to be a contradiction).  Rather than humankind's saviour it may well end up known in the history books as The Ultimate DeStruKtor.  LOL

 

Now, I've searched again and again to no avail to find a particular debate hosted on a rather well know televised forum which pitted a guy who had immersed his entire life into Tibetan philosophy against a scientist.  I can't recall whether the scientist was an astrophysicist or what his field of specialty was.  What I will never forget, though, is the degree of his haughtiness.  He may well have been deliberately attempting to crown himself the epitome of arrogance.  At one point during the debate he declared with utmost superiority and hubris that science had already found the answers to most everything.  All the was left was, and in his exact words, "to cross some tees and dot some eyes."  My fvckin' jaw dropped!

Not only that, but people seem to ascribe some altruistic morality to scientists, as they work to find the truth and their ethics shouldn't be questioned. They cannot lie, they are men of science.

In reality science is continually used to promote falsehoods and there are many examples.

The nutrition pyramid promoted by the sugar industry. The promotion of tobacco as safe. The whole cholesterol thingy, getting us to eat poisons like margarine and avoid natural oils like butter and fat. The climate crisis and so on. Science creates statistics, and statistics are lying bastards. 

[Tippaporn]

29 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Not only that, but people seem to ascribe some altruistic morality to scientists, as they work to find the truth and their ethics shouldn't be questioned. They cannot lie, they are men of science.

In reality science is continually used to promote falsehoods and there are many examples.

The nutrition pyramid promoted by the sugar industry. The promotion of tobacco as safe. The whole cholesterol thingy, getting us to eat poisons like margarine and avoid natural oils like butter and fat. The climate crisis and so on. Science creates statistics, and statistics are lying bastards. 

Scientists are only human.  They suffer from all of the same diseases as the common man.

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

Music can be pretty revelational (I just made that word up, so don't bother looking up a definition on-line).  I just came across this song which describes some of my personal life to a tee.  I generally don't share my personal information on a public forum but I'll make an exception just this once in the hopes that folks here will better understand and relate to me.  The intro has some freaky sounds but don't be scared.

 

Makes me realize that science has no way of explaining me.

 

 

My Daddy drives a UFO
Drops me off and then he goes
Leaves me on this mystery plane
But he'll be back for me again

Oh, Oh yes he will
Yeah!

Now I just can't identify
With this world so I don't try
Square pegs don't fit in round holes
And I can't fit into these clothes

No

My daddy's unidentified
My mom says I just appeared inside
Looks like a case of hit and run
But off the record it's no fun

No, no, no fun
No!

My daddy he'll come back again
And take me from this mystery plane
And maybe if I go real slow
He'll let me drive his UFO, Oh, Oh, Oh
Oh Boy

My Daddy drives a UFO
My Daddy drives a UFO
My Daddy drives a UFO
U
F
O

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

Sorry, wrong song initially posted.  Happens when you post a tune contained in a playlist and it's not the first one.  Mystery Plane would be correct.

[Sunmaster]

Erm....maybe the wrong one was the better one. This is hurting my ears. ????

[mauGR1]

Rev Gary Davis was a great song composer, here's a version from J.Kaukonen

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by mauGR1

[Tippaporn]

12 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Erm....maybe the wrong one was the better one. This is hurting my ears. ????

Shock value, Mr. Sunmaster.  55555555

[Tippaporn]

18 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Rev Gary Davis was a great song composer, here's a version from Hot Tuna

 

Jefferson Airplane and now Hot Tuna?  My, my, you're showing your age, mauGR!.  Not a spring chicken anymore, eh?  Soon enough you'll be playing "Knockin' On Heaven's Door."  Hopefully not anytime too soon.  555555555555555

 

You posted another very good tune (which I'm going to repost, and as usual you'll get a hat tip).  You might want to reconsider your calling.  Perhaps the Good Lord meant for you to be posting in the 60's, 70's & 80's music thread?  Just a thought.

 

And I'm in complete agreement about the good Reverend Gary Davis.  A fine composer and musician.  Some here might be too young to know.

 

Just as long as I'm in this world
I am the light of this world
You don't believe in Jesus
And not a word he say

When he come all way down to Lazarus' grave
And raised him from the dead
Just as long as I'm in this world
I am the light of this world

I've got fiery fingers
I've got fiery hands
And when I get up in heaven
Gonna join that fiery band

Just as long as I'm in this world
I am the light of this world
Prayer is the key of heaven
And faith unlock the door

That's why my god give me the key
And he told me to carry it everywhere I go
Just as long as I'm in this world
I am the light of this world

Didn't they take old John the Baptist
And out him in a kettle of oil
Well, my god got in there with him
And they told me the oil wouldn't boil

Just as long as I'm in this world
I am the light of this world
I know I got religion
I know I ain't ashamed

For the holy ghost is my witness
And the angels done signed my name
Just as long as I'm in this world
I am the light of this world

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tippaporn

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

You posted another very good tune (which I'm going to repost, and as usual you'll get a hat tip).  You might want to reconsider your calling.  Perhaps the Good Lord meant for you to be posting in the 60's, 70's & 80's music thread?  Just a thought.

 

Lol, i have more..

You didn't start to post here until recently, and i have to say that me and a couple of others, i think, enjoy your posts immensely... It's a kind of tradition to post songs here from time to time, as to lighten up our brains after some heavy thinking job ????

[Sunmaster]

Way before my time, but I can't get enough of this song since I first heard it. 

 

 

 

Helplessly hoping her harlequin hovers nearby
Awaiting a word
Gasping at glimpses of gentle true spirit he runs
Wishing he could fly
Only to trip at the sound of goodbye

Wordlessly watching he waits by the window and wonders
At the empty place inside
Heartlessly helping himself to her bad dreams he worries
Did he hear a good-bye?
Or even hello?

They are one person
They are two alone
They are three together
They are for each other

Stand by the stairway you'll see something certain to tell you
Confusion has its cost
Love isn't lying it's loose in a lady who lingers
Saying she is lost
And choking on hello

They are one person
They are two alone
They are three together
They are for each other


And here's an extra. You surely know the song, but maybe not this beautiful version....

 

[Tippaporn]

15 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Lol, i have more..

You didn't start to post here until recently, and i have to say that me and a couple of others, i think, enjoy your posts immensely... It's a kind of tradition to post songs here from time to time, as to lighten up our brains after some heavy thinking job ????

Stop on in sometime in the music thread.  I'm a prolific poster there.  We post some awesome tunes, and certainly not just the Top 100 from the hit parade.  You'll be reunited with music you've long forgotten and newly acquainted with fine tunes that you may have missed in earlier years.  That's what I love about that thread the most.  Hearing new, old music.

 

I enjoy posting here as well.  Hopefully I'm not to harsh on our scientifically (single) minded friends.  But, with a proper background it's only too easy to poke a little fun.  As I've said, I truly do have a deep appreciation for science but when science attempts to put itself on a lofty pedestal, well, it's time to knock them down a few notches.  Humbleness is good for the soul.  Little do they know they are one, LOL.

[Tippaporn]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Way before my time, but I can't get enough of this song since I first heard it. 

 

 

 

Helplessly hoping her harlequin hovers nearby
Awaiting a word
Gasping at glimpses of gentle true spirit he runs
Wishing he could fly
Only to trip at the sound of goodbye

Wordlessly watching he waits by the window and wonders
At the empty place inside
Heartlessly helping himself to her bad dreams he worries
Did he hear a good-bye?
Or even hello?

They are one person
They are two alone
They are three together
They are for each other

Stand by the stairway you'll see something certain to tell you
Confusion has its cost
Love isn't lying it's loose in a lady who lingers
Saying she is lost
And choking on hello

They are one person
They are two alone
They are three together
They are for each other


And here's an extra. You surely know the song, but maybe not this beautiful version....

 

CSNY produced some of the best harmonies ever.  That song is a shining example.

 

As to the 2nd song you posted, no, I'm not familiar with either the song or this version.  It's beautiful, though.  Sometimes I like reading the comments for posted YT songs.  Here's one that's apropos for the song:

 

"Wow.....this is one of those songs that just wrenches your heart right out of your chest in sadness and beauty ...his voice is angelic ...absolutely lovely."

 

There's a poster on the music thread I usually post on (there are 3 pinned music threads now, one for Thai music, which I very much get into as well) who has roots in Bolivia.  Turned me on to Jorge Cafrune.

 

This is Zamba de mi esperanza

 

 

[Tippaporn]

Back to the topic of intelligence.

 

We've all met them at one time or another.  And probably more often than once.  The Intelligensia!  My sister is one.  She's Mensa.  A proud member of a select few who can claim the coveted inclusion into the top 2% of the human brain trust.  Possessing an IQ of, at minimum, 132 on the Stanford–Binet scale, or 148 on the Cattell scale.  If I were Mensa I would prefer proclaiming to others the Cattell scale number.  Chances are good that those less intelligent, perhaps having no understanding of the process used for determining one's IQ, would be much more impressed with a higher number.

 

There's no doubt that my sister is "smart."  She was gifted in her own way, as we all are in our own ways.  There is no one coming into this world who is without gifts to utilize and offer to the benefit of the world.  Everyone is gifted according to their own unique temperament and individual character.  And when I say gifted I would use the plural form.  Some may be predominantly gifted in music, some in engineering, while others in finance.  For myself I'm still trying to figure out what mine is.

 

Given that we are all gifted in our own peculiar way it has come to at least my attention that there is a tendency amongst people to mistakenly believe that a gifted person in one field or endeavour is also gifted in all other areas of life.  A great actor, or a sports star, or a man of immeasurable wealth, a highly accomplished scientist perhaps, are so often sought after by the general masses to opine and enlighten us on any and all of the great issues of life, many of which may fall entirely outside of their expertise or perhaps into areas in which they may have little talent or have not been overly gifted.

 

My sister, as an instance, is unquestionably a whiz in subject matter such as math.  On the other hand, given other subject matter she may be (and is) dumb as rocks.  While she scores exceedingly high on one scale she may barely register on another.  Of course, it should go without saying that this applies to us all.  We can all immediately come up with famous personages who are sought after for their sage advice and while listening to them speak mumble to ourselves, "That's fvcked up, man."  I feel that it's an important realization to always keep at the back of one's mind.

 

And for added humour I'll supply a personal anecdote.  Visiting my sister once I needed to relieve myself (no. 2, in case anyone is interested) and sat down on the commode.  Some of us like to read during this activity and I guess my sister is one of those because she had a stack of rags (no, not those kind) next to the toilet.  Included was a monthly publication of the Mensa Society.  Hmmm, would be interesting to see what's in these people's heads.  Being fully aware of their attitudes of superiority (and to be fair, of course it does not apply across the board) I coincidentally, or not so, opened up a randomly chosen magazine and was led to an article in which the author was lamenting the fact that Mensa folk were not being sought after enough to solve the worlds problems.  For, as I'm sure the logic of the author's flow was, that they were so obviously in the best position to discover the ultimate solutions for all the world's ills.  (No mention made in the article of what insurmountable personal challenges the author may have had in his own personal life.)

 

Anyway, good for a laugh.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

Belief.  What is it?  Where does it come from?  What are it's sources?  Are your beliefs yours?  Are they someone else's?  Are you your beliefs?  What do they do?  What effects do they have?  Do they have effects?  If so, can they be discerned?  Can they be observed?  Can they be confirmed?  Can you see their effects in others?  In yourself?  Can you recognize a belief?  Is a belief real?  Is it a fantasy?  Can it be confused with reality?  Can it be substituted for reality?  Can beliefs be played with?  Toyed with?  Are they fun?  Can they be changed?  Can they be deliberately, intentionally changed?  Can they be rearranged?  Can they be collected?  Can they litter?  Can they be tossed away?  What are your beliefs?  Do you know?  Are you aware of them?  Do you have contradictory beliefs?  Would you recognize contradictory beliefs within yourself?

 

Beliefs.  What are they?  Would you be surprised to know?

 

Questions, questions and never-ending (unanswerable?) questions.

 

Would an understanding of beliefs be a prerequisite to a proper understanding of creation?  The Universe As Idea Construction.  Something to ponder . . . is it not?

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Back to the topic of intelligence.

 

We've all met them at one time or another.  And probably more often than once.  The Intelligensia!  My sister is one.  She's Mensa.  A proud member of a select few who can claim the coveted inclusion into the top 2% of the human brain trust.  Possessing an IQ of, at minimum, 132 on the Stanford–Binet scale, or 148 on the Cattell scale.  If I were Mensa I would prefer proclaiming to others the Cattell scale number.  Chances are good that those less intelligent, perhaps having no understanding of the process used for determining one's IQ, would be much more impressed with a higher number.

Out of anecdotal curiosity, what does she think about God ?

[Tippaporn]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Out of anecdotal curiosity, what does she think about God ?

555555555555555  She's an atheist.

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Back to the topic of intelligence.

 

We've all met them at one time or another.  And probably more often than once.  The Intelligensia!  My sister is one.  She's Mensa.  A proud member of a select few who can claim the coveted inclusion into the top 2% of the human brain trust.  Possessing an IQ of, at minimum, 132 on the Stanford–Binet scale, or 148 on the Cattell scale.  If I were Mensa I would prefer proclaiming to others the Cattell scale number.  Chances are good that those less intelligent, perhaps having no understanding of the process used for determining one's IQ, would be much more impressed with a higher number.

 

There's no doubt that my sister is "smart."  She was gifted in her own way, as we all are in our own ways.  There is no one coming into this world who is without gifts to utilize and offer to the benefit of the world.  Everyone is gifted according to their own unique temperament and individual character.  And when I say gifted I would use the plural form.  Some may be predominantly gifted in music, some in engineering, while others in finance.  For myself I'm still trying to figure out what mine is.

 

Given that we are all gifted in our own peculiar way it has come to at least my attention that there is a tendency amongst people to mistakenly believe that a gifted person in one field or endeavour is also gifted in all other areas of life.  A great actor, or a sports star, or a man of immeasurable wealth, a highly accomplished scientist perhaps, are so often sought after by the general masses to opine and enlighten us on any and all of the great issues of life, many of which may fall entirely outside of their expertise or perhaps into areas in which they may have little talent or have not been overly gifted.

 

My sister, as an instance, is unquestionably a whiz in subject matter such as math.  On the other hand, given other subject matter she may be (and is) dumb as rocks.  While she scores exceedingly high on one scale she may barely register on another.  Of course, it should go without saying that this applies to us all.  We can all immediately come up with famous personages who are sought after for their sage advice and while listening to them speak mumble to ourselves, "That's fvcked up, man."  I feel that it's an important realization to always keep at the back of one's mind.

 

And for added humour I'll supply a personal anecdote.  Visiting my sister once I needed to relieve myself (no. 2, in case anyone is interested) and sat down on the commode.  Some of us like to read during this activity and I guess my sister is one of those because she had a stack of rags (no, not those kind) next to the toilet.  Included was a monthly publication of the Mensa Society.  Hmmm, would be interesting to see what's in these people's heads.  Being fully aware of their attitudes of superiority (and to be fair, of course it does not apply across the board) I coincidentally, or not so, opened up a randomly chosen magazine and was led to an article in which the author was lamenting the fact that Mensa folk were not being sought after enough to solve the worlds problems.  For, as I'm sure the logic of the author's flow was, that they were so obviously in the best position to discover the ultimate solutions for all the world's ills.  (No mention made in the article of what insurmountable personal challenges the author may have had in his own personal life.)

 

Anyway, good for a laugh.

 

Very true. 
We're not one-dimensional beings. Even when one person is highly advanced spiritually, there are still pitfalls of the ego and areas where this person might not be on the same level.
I'm thinking about a spiritual teacher called Andrew Cohen, who was highly praised as one of the spearhead thinkers in the early 2000s, but then fell in disrepute after accusations of sexual misconduct towards former students. There are several others such as Osho, which was very controversial, and unfortunately are taken as examples to discredit all other teachers, tout court.

The same goes for scientists of course, like you describe. I'm thinking of Richard Dawkins, who is the atheist's favourite spokesperson and who might be a brilliant scientist, but has obviously no inside knowledge of spirituality. Yet he goes on rampages against religion and thinks he has proven the non-existence of Spirit. 

It's already a lifelong task to understand who we truly are, trying to understand others might take a few more lifetimes. ????

Edited February 25, 2020 by Sunmaster

[Sunmaster]

continues....

People on the "spiritual path" are just as prone to delusions as anyone else, of course.
Last week I got 2 separate hate messages through FB messenger. The first one was from a lunatic American who hated Europe and called all Europeans "Eurotrash". I must have called him out on FB, because he sent me a private message and went on an hour long tirade on how Americans are superior to Europeans in every way. I enjoyed trolling him real hard, I have to admit. ????
The second one was from a Russian woman. I'm following a channeler on FB who often posts inspirational quotes. There are lots of what I call "yoga aunties" (know you the ones who always wear purple hippie clothing and walk around with that spaced out look) and they all praised the post and said just how good it makes them feel. Well, I dared to point out that while I agree with the quote, it didn't provide any practical way on how to achieve that blissful state it referred to, and that knowledge without practice is useless....you know me ???? . The yoga aunties were merciless in their replies: "You didn't understand", "You're shallow and the teaching just flew over your head", "Where's your humility?". The Russian woman even felt the need to message me directly and called me a child molester because I live in Thailand! ???? 

It seems I'm pissing off a lot of people lately. ????

Edited February 25, 2020 by Sunmaster

[Tippaporn]

27 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

<snip>
It's already a lifelong task to understand who we truly are, trying to understand others might take a few more lifetimes. ????

I will say this, understanding yourself automatically leads to an understanding of others.  No need to make it a separate task.  While we are all unique we all are, in basic respects, exactly the same.  For instance, we all possess the same diversity and range of emotion . . . an example of how we are the same in a subjective sense.  Another example would be that we all have heartbeats . . . an objective example.  Given that then I need to clarify my first statement.  While we can certainly understand others through an understanding of ourselves it will never be a complete comprehensive understanding.

 

If you have learned and accepted that we form our realities by means of beliefs, and further understand that emotions follow beliefs (and not the other way around) then it becomes easy to see certain obvious beliefs others hold simply by their actions, words and emotions.  And thus we can understand them simply be recognizing the beliefs they hold.  But again, not all of their beliefs may be so obvious.  In which case they will appear to be puzzling to you.  You can live together with someone for their entire lives and yet still not know everything about them.  And sometimes be very surprised.

 

In any case, fortunately the only ones we need to concern ourselves with is ourselves.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I will say this, understanding yourself automatically leads to an understanding of others.  No need to make it a separate task.  While we are all unique we all are, in basic respects, exactly the same.  For instance, we all possess the same diversity and range of emotion . . .

That's very true in general, but of course there can be exceptions.

As individuals, we can enjoy a bit of unpredictability just to see what happens.

Some people are very predictable, some are less, many artists are known to be eccentric and often unpredictable.