Do you believe in God and why

[Tippaporn]

Despite the vast quantity of material my favourite dead guy has produced in a span of 20 years he once remarked, "You can learn more from observing the animals than you can from reading my books."  Quite interesting.  And exceedingly humble as well.

 

I happen to share my current existence with a cadre of cats.  While they enjoy the outdoors tremendously they also enjoy having an indoors in which they feel safe and secure.  When a huge truck comes rolling down our soi, making a good deal of threatening noise, my cats will run into the house and, once inside, stop just within the doorway to see if the truck might indeed be coming after them.

 

People have a tendency to confine themselves to an imaginary box in the same fashion.  While the box may be extremely limited in size it does afford a sense of safety and comfort.  The box also affords familiarity.  Outside the box lay the unknown marvels of the world.  Which can be scary to behold at times.  At such times one can always retreat to their box.

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

Perhaps a better question than "Does God Exist" is the question of who and what we are.  That question may automatically answer the first.  And in terms of practical value I believe the answers found within the question would be the source of unending practical uses.

 

Just a thought.

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Tippaporn

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

The box also affords familiarity.  Outside the box lay the unknown marvels of the world.  Which can be scary to behold at times.

I would compare "beliefs" to the safe boxes of the cats, or basements where one can safely build buildings of thoughts.

Personally, "everything is possible", is one of my favourite tenets, but many moons ago, my teacher friend told me that the children need certainties to develop a proper "thinking attitude", doesn't matter if those certainties are lies.

That left me scratching my head.

[Tippaporn]

Not sure what happened but it appears I've quoted myself unintentionally.  This entire morning my reply editor keeps regenerating the first reply I've made today and I constantly have to clear it.

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Perhaps a better question than "Does God Exist" is the question of who and what we are.  That question may automatically answer the first.  And in terms of practical value I believe the answers found within the question would be the source of unending practical uses.

 

Just a thought.

 

I think it's just the same question said in a different way.

Where we come from and where are we going are also eternal questions.

Old Mr. Shakespeare once said: "to be or not to be, that is the question".

I think that dismissing thoughts as "electrical processes of the brain" is an insult to intelligence.

[Tippaporn]

8 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I would compare "beliefs" to the safe boxes of the cats, or basements where one can safely build buildings of thoughts.

Personally, "everything is possible", is one of my favourite tenets, but many moons ago, my teacher friend told me that the children need certainties to develop a proper "thinking attitude", doesn't matter if those certainties are lies.

That left me scratching my head.

I would disagree with what your teacher said.  The process of adopting beliefs from childhood to adulthood I believe is quite different.  I don't know what she means with her term of "proper thinking attitude."  Is there such a thing?  Not to my mind.

[Tippaporn]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I think it's just the same question said in a different way.

Where we come from and where are we going are also eternal questions.

Old Mr. Shakespeare once said: "to be or not to be, that is the question".

I believe that the question of whence to from here can be answered in the here and now.  Most would never accept such a possibility.  Ah, well.

 

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I think that dismissing thoughts as "electrical processes of the brain" is an insult to intelligence.

It's more than an insult to intelligence.  It has severely damaging effects in a multitude of ways.

[mauGR1]

20 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I would disagree with what your teacher said.  The process of adopting beliefs from childhood to adulthood I believe is quite different.  I don't know what she means with her term of "proper thinking attitude."  Is there such a thing?  Not to my mind.

Yes, i disagree too, but she's a woman, and i was madly in love with her at that time ????

Our discussion was about the difference from reality and the mainstream description of reality.

What left me scratching my head was that Western schools boast about teaching "critical thinking", when children in fact are taught to believe the media and the official science.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/26/2020 at 4:26 AM, mauGR1 said:

It seems to me that human relationships are one of the most difficult part of the human existence, and often, what we don't like in others, reflects what we don't like about ourselves.

A lesson I learned the hard way. My western ex had a son that I came to dislike intensely, but after we split up I realised the things I most disliked about him were the things I disliked about myself.

 

I spent most of my life wanting to be in a relationship, but discovered that the chances of a relationship lasting a lifetime are probably less than the chance of winning a million bucks on lotto.

I solved the problem by not trying to get in another relationship. Loneliness is preferable to the trauma of a love gone bad.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

What left me scratching my head was that Western schools boast about teaching "critical thinking", when children in fact are taught to believe the media and the official science.

LOL. My schools didn't "teach" me anything much except schools are places for bullies to flourish. Many of my teachers were bullies, along with many older boys.

If I gained anything from school, it was having the time to read lots of books.

Critical thinking? If I'd questioned anything my teachers told me I'd have been caned. I don't think many of them even wanted to educate us- it was just a job.

Sadly, I don't think education has improved much. They teach stuff, but repress inner development. Conformity is all.

 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Loneliness is preferable to the trauma of a love gone bad.

I guess the same can be said of boring friendships.

One of the best days in my life was when i finally realised that i can enjoy my own companionship ????

As much as i love friends and friendship, people confuse me.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

I guess the same can be said of boring friendships.

One of the best days in my life was when i finally realised that i can enjoy my own companionship ????

As much as i love friends and friendship, people confuse me.

Agree. The people that betrayed me the most were the ones that I loved the most and the ones that should have supported me, like my parents and sibling.

I understand why hermits exist.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Critical thinking? If I'd questioned anything my teachers told me I'd have been caned. I don't think many of them even wanted to educate us- it was just a job.

I was probably luckier than others, i fondly remember my elementary school teacher, she was really enjoying her job, she used to call me "the protester" ????

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Perhaps a better question than "Does God Exist" is the question of who and what we are.  That question may automatically answer the first.  And in terms of practical value I believe the answers found within the question would be the source of unending practical uses.

 

Just a thought.

 

Discovering ourselves is the task of a lifetime. As soon as one thinks they know themselves everything can change. I once thought I knew myself, but I was mistaken. I'm constantly discovering new parts of "me". This thread has enabled much self analysis, but I'm still learning.

IMO most never even try to understand themselves.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agree. The people that betrayed me the most were the ones that I loved the most and the ones that should have supported me, like my parents and sibling.

I understand why hermits exist.

Yep, but let's keep on trying, love and friendship are some of the things which make life worth living.

I feel sad when i hear some of my friends saying that dogs and cats are better than humans.

[CharlieH]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agree. The people that betrayed me the most were the ones that I loved the most and the ones that should have supported me, like my parents and sibling.

I understand why hermits exist.

Its a difficult thing to deal with, and cuts deepest when those close to us, who by all the things we are taught, should be the ones to rely on in times of trouble, are not there as you might expect them to be. Yes, that kind of experience can and does leave a deep scar and can foster feelings of mistrust and doubt in others. Its a difficult place to get back from, some never do.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

Yep, but let's keep on trying, love and friendship are some of the things which make life worth living.

I feel sad when i hear some of my friends saying that dogs and cats are better than humans.

I'd rather have a dog than a human friend. Dogs love unconditionally.

My 2 best friends ( 30 years ) stabbed me in the back and one stole my money. My ex stabbed me in the back and ruined me at 30. My wife stabbed me in the back and took me for everything she could. Luckily I had learned some lessons and she didn't get it all.

Took me a while, but I finally cottoned on that I don't need backstabbers in my life.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Yes, that kind of experience can and does leave a deep scar and can foster feelings of mistrust and doubt in others. Its a difficult place to get back from, some never do.

Agree 100%. Problem is a lot of the mistrust and doubt is subconscious. That can cause failure of a relationship, and every time a relationship fails it adds to the mistrust and doubt.

My happiest time in life was when I had temporary relationships in Thailand. They never lasted long enough to fail. My mistake was in not understanding that, and getting married.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd rather have a dog than a human friend. Dogs love unconditionally.

My 2 best friends ( 30 years ) stabbed me in the back and one stole my money. My ex stabbed me in the back and ruined me at 30. My wife stabbed me in the back and took me for everything she could. Luckily I had learned some lessons and she didn't get it all.

Took me a while, but I finally cottoned on that I don't need backstabbers in my life.

Sad to hear that, but you can't play chess or having philosophical conversations with a dog, can you ?

I also had many disappointments with friends and lovers, and i learned many positive lessons from that.

 

Sometimes it's worth to try to look at things from the point of view of one's "enemy"... Sometimes one can conclude that they are not worth the pain.. In the end i believe that i am here to learn.

[Skeptic7]

My public schooling (USA) was GREAT. Many exceptional, fun, highly educated, critical thinking teachers. A few duds, but we had a great time schooling them! A really hot 23 y.o. Freshman English teacher whom I romanced for a year and a half. Best 18 months of my young life! Many even better since. 

 

Don't have but less than a handful of close, trusted friends and my big bro is one. A former ex (and her hubby too!) is another. Still best of friends after 8 years together and split more than 25 years ago...after first coming to Thailand in '92. Hmmmm... 

 

I prefer no close (in proximity) friends and generally as little human contact and interaction as possible/necessary. Dogs and cats and birds and bees over humans any day! 

 

 

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

you can't play chess with a dog

I play online against human opponents from all over the world. Rarely chat...no need...tho it's possible and probably used extensively by many.

 

Also play against those silly, inept, inaccurate science based creations...ya know those stupid chess computers, programs and apps. They totally suck..but only because they tend to thrash me on levels past intermediate! 

[UbonThani]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agree 100%. Problem is a lot of the mistrust and doubt is subconscious. That can cause failure of a relationship, and every time a relationship fails it adds to the mistrust and doubt.

My happiest time in life was when I had temporary relationships in Thailand. They never lasted long enough to fail. My mistake was in not understanding that, and getting married.

So thats why gogos are 10s. You are miserable and pretend they are hot.

[Tippaporn]

LOL.  I was beginning to think that Skeptic was right; this thread is dead.  Woke up to a flurry of 14 replies.

 

Read everyone's replies.  Some have drawn some rather sad conclusions as to what life holds.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking anyone at all for whatever conclusions they've drawn about life.  From my perspective, though, life is always what you make it.  Yeah, I know, while it appears to be a valid truism it's a cliche older than the hills and doesn't seem to answer much at all.  And so neither does it therefore appear to be very useful from a practical standpoint.  But nevertheless it is a truism.  Life is what we make it.  The question is always, "How?"

 

I could say that the answers are all within us.  The above would also apply to this statement.  Yet the question would change to, "Where?"

 

I would mention, too, that answers can and do come from without as well.  But, if one knows and accepts that physical reality is a creation and reflection of subjective reality then it would be accurate to say that the source of all answers ultimately are within.  And from within they become externalized and so appear to come from without.  Perhaps in the form of a book, for example.  Perhaps in the form of an event whose meaning conveys an answer which becomes known in undeniable terms.  Perhaps in the form of someone speaking mundane words which trigger an answer to a long sought question.

 

The how and the where questions have answers.  Each person, for their own personal reasons, of which they most likely are unaware, either doubt it or believe it.  To uncover those answers, which I might add truly are in plain sight and certainly not inaccessible, there can be no doubt and there must be a belief that the answers can be discovered and known.  It is for the greater part the only way it works.

 

So, what stops any given individual from finding answers?  The reasons are too many to list and only the individual can answer for his or herself.  That answer(s) are also within.

 

Beliefs, which are nothing more than ideas repeated often, create the reality one experiences.  And as in a loop, the experiences then serve to reinforce the belief.  Change the beliefs and experience changes as well.  It must.

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

I could say that the answers are all within us.  The above would also apply to this statement.  Yet the question would change to, "Where?"

Everywhere, easy. ????

At the moment, the question i'm asking is "why", but ,in a way, i am convinced that the question cannot be answered too easily.

It is what it is, but "why" it is ?

[Sunmaster]

 

14 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Yep, but let's keep on trying, love and friendship are some of the things which make life worth living.

I feel sad when i hear some of my friends saying that dogs and cats are better than humans.

Not sure about dogs, but cats definitely are. ???? 
I take care of 3 cat friends in the house and 2 more in the soi. 
People are ok too, if I meet them 1 on 1 or in very small groups. Small talk bores me to death, so I'm not the most sociable person. For me, a handful of good friends is all there is needed.

[mauGR1]

15 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

 

Not sure about dogs, but cats definitely are. ???? 
I take care of 3 cat friends in the house and 2 more in the soi. 
People are ok too, if I meet them 1 on 1 or in very small groups. Small talk bores me to death, so I'm not the most sociable person. For me, a handful of good friends is all there is needed.

Agree with cats and people too !

Last year the taxi woman driver who took me to the hotel in bkk was owning something like 20 or 30 cats..

That's what i call an exaggeration

I am still suspicious on the idea that mammals are "better" than humans, they are just much more predictable.

 

 

[Sunmaster]

I feel it's time for an update about my meditation efforts. This might be of interest for those who have considered starting but never got around to do it, but also for those who have only a superficial knowledge of meditation and are curious to know what it looks like "from the inside" so to speak.

As many here know, mostly thanks to this thread, I've started meditating regularly at the end of December and have been doing it twice a day for about 25 minutes each session. The yoga path I'm following is Kriya Yoga (Yoga of Action) as taught by Paramahansa Yogananda. Kriya Yoga is a form of Raja Yoga (The King of Yogas).

So, what has changed so far?
First of all, my attitude towards meditation. In the past I considered meditation as something I had to force myself to do, as an effort or chore, much like cleaning the house....not exactly fun, but it has to be done.
Now I'm actually looking forward to my next sitting, especially in the morning. I wake up around 6.30 and start off with some physical exercises....just simple stretching and weight lifting....for about 10-15 minutes. Only this little bit of exercise has already produced some notable changes. My wife seems happy about it.  ????
Next I sit down and do some breathing exercises and prayers, followed by silent mantra recitations, all the while concentrating on the spot between the eyebrows ("3rd eye" or "the one eye" as it's called in the bible). Every time I do that, I feel a pressure building up in that area and at the base of my neck. It's not painful at all. It feels like someone is pressing his thumb on the forehead. Sometimes the neck feels a bit stiff at the end of the sessions. In the beginning I would sit on the floor with my back leaning on a wall. I've changed that now by using a flat pillow and keeping my spine straight on it's own.

The first month and half, progress seemed pretty good. I could detach from thought forms quite easily and maintain the concentration for some time. The last 2-3 weeks though, I felt more resistance. Concentrating got more difficult and I often got swept away by thoughts. There was a general feeling of restlessness, but I didn't get disheartened and kept practicing. The past few days have already been much better.
To give you a mental picture....I see meditating like digging a tunnel with a pickaxe. Progress depends on how much work you're willing to put in. Sometimes you hit some bedrock. In these cases it's important not to give up, but to carry on as usual and eventually you'll pass through it. The more you dig the bigger the space inside becomes. Maybe you start with a series of tunnels, but you keep working until you can make a small room, then a big room and finally a huge hall. At one point, light from the "outside" shines through the walls and you understand that the place you thought was your home (the hall), is in reality just a tiny part of something immense. Eventually you realize that the walls of the hall are not solid at all and that you can pass through freely and make the immensity your new home.

Sounds good, right? For now it's just a lot of digging though. ????

Some interesting by-products...
Synchronicities (some call them coincidences) seem to have increased. It often happened that I talked to my wife and she then told me she was just about to tell me the same thing. Nothing unusual for long married couples, but it has happened more than usual. 
Another example happened a couple of days ago. I haven't heard from my mother in about 5 weeks, so I decided to call her. As soon as she answered the phone, she told me she was just dialing my number on the house phone at that moment. 

All in all, I feel more centered, more confident and I feel good about myself. I also noticed that I can't stand loud and crowded places anymore...even less than I used to before. 
I think that's it more or less....

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

this thread is dead

I'll rephrase. the OP topic is dead and has been for a while.

 

The thread has certainly evolved.  

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Everywhere, easy. ????

At the moment, the question i'm asking is "why", but ,in a way, i am convinced that the question cannot be answered too easily.

It is what it is, but "why" it is ?

The question of who and what we truly are would answer that one quite well.

[Tippaporn]

14 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

I'll rephrase. the OP topic is dead and has been for a while.

 

The thread has certainly evolved.  

Quite naturally that questions of the existence of a prime entity would lead to so many other existential questions.  It's all connected.

 

Please excuse my "woo."  LOL