Do you believe in God and why

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

<snip>

I am still suspicious on the idea that mammals are "better" than humans, they are just much more predictable.

The concepts of better and best, or higher consciousness versus lower consciousness, are, I believe, concepts created by humans.  Climbing a corporate ladder may have meaning for us but aside from our created concepts dealing with higher and lower existence is not about climbing the rungs of a ladder to ever and ever higher realms realms of consciousness at all.  It's all about experience, which as we can see from the vast numbers of differing life forms just within our small corner of existence, for which there is literally an endless variety to choose from.  Dogs are no better than cats who are no better than fish who are no better than humans who are no better than the individual cells which contribute to the creation of a form.

 

In it's own way the concept of a higher consciousness which we are to attain cannot help but to degrade our current state of consciousness.  There are disciplines of thought which teach that this existence is in essence an unfavourable one and the goal is to get out of it as quickly as possible.  My response is LOL.

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

The concepts of better and best, or higher consciousness versus lower consciousness, are, I believe, concepts created by humans.

Perhaps saying "better" sounds arrogant, but i believe that high and low exist, in the physical world and in other worlds connected to it, i would be cautious in believing that those concepts are human-made.

Water can be fluid, ice or vapor. the same thing but with different density and properties.

[Tippaporn]

44 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Perhaps saying "better" sounds arrogant, but i believe that high and low exist, in the physical world and in other worlds connected to it, i would be cautious in believing that those concepts are human-made.

Water can be fluid, ice or vapor. the same thing but with different density and properties.

Words can carry different meanings depending on their particular usage.  No one would come away thinking that high tide was better than low tide.  Everyone understands that it relates to the level of the water.  Higher math, such as calculus, is usually not considered better than arithmetic.  Just more complex.  Now, try telling someone your consciousness is higher than theirs.  My advice would be to duck.  LOL

 

I believe that words can be and are often used inappropriately.  When someone is instructed to do something more often than not people use the word 'could' instead of 'would.'  "Honey, could you make me some coffee?"  Of course honey is perfectly capable, as the word could implies.  Seth uses the term All-That-Is rather than God precisely because, as he explained himself, the word God has too many meanings attached to it which vary from one individual to another.  As another instance, rather than using the word love, which also carries many different meanings ("If you really love me you will do this thing for me," for instance) another word which is wholly synonymous would be appreciation.  There is far less different meaning attached to that word.

 

Higher and lower consciousness for most, in my opinion, implies better than.  And the inference of 'better than' is more often than not deliberately implied.  Using higher and lower in that sense is indeed, as far as I am concerned, a man-made concept.  For myself I would use terms such as 'greater awareness' or 'more expansive.'  Seth describes it, I believe, as different intensities.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Seth describes it, I believe, as different intensities.

Well, i am not Seth, but in fact i used the example of water, fluid, frozen, vapor.

Agree that words carry a lot of meanings, and sometimes not enough meanings, that's why the masters use parables of metaphors to describe spiritual realities.

Personally i am not afraid to state that high and low exist, but i am aware that somebody may feel offended by that.

 

[Tippaporn]

7 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, i am not Seth, but in fact i used the example of water, fluid, frozen, vapor.

Agree that words carry a lot of meanings, and sometimes not enough meanings, that's why the masters use parables of metaphors to describe spiritual realities.

Personally i am not afraid to state that high and low exist, but i am aware that somebody may feel offended by that.

 

Well, no worries about me.  No offense taken.

[Tippaporn]

12 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, i am not Seth, but in fact i used the example of water, fluid, frozen, vapor.

Agree that words carry a lot of meanings, and sometimes not enough meanings, that's why the masters use parables of metaphors to describe spiritual realities.

Personally i am not afraid to state that high and low exist, but i am aware that somebody may feel offended by that.

 

Wanted to add that if your use of water existing in different states was to infer that consciousness can adopt different states then I rather like the analogy.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Well, no worries about me.  No offense taken.

Thanks, there is a poster here who's convinced that all opinions are equal, which may be true in some parallel universe, but in this physical world, as far as i know, there are people with higher and lower levels of consciousness.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Wanted to add that if your use of water existing in different states was to infer that consciousness can adopt different states then I rather like the analogy.

Yes, sure !

I find that comparison quite apt, if one wants to avoid definitions like "high" and "low".

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, UbonThani said:

So thats why gogos are 10s. You are miserable and pretend they are hot.

I wasn't miserable till I got married. When I was single and in LOS, I was as happy as a kid in a sweet shop with $100.

Just because you never saw a 10 in a gogo, don't think you know it all.

[Sunmaster]

I like to think of consciousness the way Buddhists describe it: 
At first as a lotus seed, buried in the mud of a pond, waiting in darkness. Then slowly growing up through the murky waters towards the light until finally reaching the surface, where it can unfold in all of its flowery glory.

I think we can not give a value of good/bad, higher/lower to consciousness itself in the same way we can not categorize All-That-Is, but we can attribute a hierarchy to the way consciousness unfolds in us and to which degree we can expand it in our lives. 
That brings me back to Don Beck's Spiral Dynamics, which very clearly describes such a hierarchy in human development. There are levels or stages in human development that go hand in hand with the expansion of consciousness, transcending and including previous stages.

[Tippaporn]

20 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Thanks, there is a poster here who's convinced that all opinions are equal, which may be true in some parallel universe, but in this physical world, as far as i know, there are people with higher and lower levels of consciousness.

Which do you prefer, higher or lower, and why?

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Which do you prefer, higher or lower, and why?

To be honest, i am caught in the middle, but i see "lower" as a sort of very limited space, and the "higher" as a glorious, unlimited sky.

More than a preference, i perceive 2 forces going in different directions, and while not being much in a hurry, i think that i'll have to give up the lower and reach for the higher.

I think it's Oscar Wilde who said: "Hell is good for the company, but in Heaven the climate is better".

[Tippaporn]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

To be honest, i am caught in the middle, but i see "lower" as a sort of very limited space, and the "higher" as a glorious, unlimited sky.

More than a preference, i perceive 2 forces going in different directions, and while not being much in a hurry, i think that i'll have to give up the lower and reach for the higher.

I think it's Oscar Wilde who said: "Hell is good for the company, but in Heaven the climate is better".

Just one more question.  Which state has more value to God or All-That-Is?

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Just one more question.  Which state has more value to God or All-That-Is?

I would be tempted to answer that it has the same value, but it would be very arrogant of me to think of the Absolute as a human, with human thoughts, so in all honesty, i have no idea.

[Tippaporn]

11 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I would be tempted to answer that it has the same value, but it would be very arrogant of me to think of the Absolute as a human, with human thoughts, so in all honesty, i have no idea.

I would agree with same value.

 

Would you feel that All-That-Is, God, or the Absolute would feel degraded to adopt human form or human thoughts?  It would, after all, be his creation, would it not?

 

It's a similar question which turned me away from organized religion.  If God is omnipresent then would he not exist in h3ll as well (geezus, I have no idea why h_e_l_l is on list of banned words, LOL)?

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Tippaporn

[Sunmaster]

2 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Just one more question.  Which state has more value to God or All-That-Is?

Ok, I will try to answer that then.
From the point of view of All-That-Is, everything just is, a non-dual state of perfection, timeless and unchanging. Hierarchies are dualistic concepts and thus cease to exist at the "God level".

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Would you feel that All-That-Is, God, or the Absolute would feel degraded to adopt human form or human thoughts?  It would, after all, be his creation, would it not?

No, i accept that God adopts human forms from time to time, yet i think it's unlikely for me to understand his/her logic.

..As the Prophet said..

Isaiah 55:8-9

⁸ “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
⁹ “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[Tippaporn]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Ok, I will try to answer that then.
From the point of view of All-That-Is, everything just is, a non-dual state of perfection, timeless and unchanging. Hierarchies are dualistic concepts and thus cease to exist at the "God level".

Certainly no pecking orders, LOL.

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Certainly no pecking orders, LOL.

What do you mean?

[Tippaporn]

The definition of hierarchies is:

 

a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.

 

A synonym would be pecking orders, a term describing the hierarchies observed within chicken society.

 

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

<snip>
Hierarchies are dualistic concepts and thus cease to exist at the "God level".

 

In other words, there are no pecking orders at the "God level."

[canuckamuck]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

I would agree with same value.

 

Would you feel that All-That-Is, God, or the Absolute would feel degraded to adopt human form or human thoughts?  It would, after all, be his creation, would it not?

 

It's a similar question which turned me away from organized religion.  If God is omnipresent then would he not exist in h3ll as well (geezus, I have no idea why h_e_l_l is on list of banned words, LOL)?

 

It is my opinion that Hell is a place in creation that God has removed Himself from. In order for there to be a place separate from him. This is done to allow people the choice to be separate from God as an aspect of their free will. Hell is separation form God, not necessarily a place.

Edited February 28, 2020 by canuckamuck

[Sunmaster]

37 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

It is my opinion that Hell is a place in creation that God has removed Himself from. In order for there to be a place separate from him. This is done to allow people the choice to be separate from God as an aspect of their free will. Hell is separation form God, not necessarily a place.

I agree with your last sentence, however I can not conceive of anything that is completely (or even a little, actually) separate from God. To my understanding, if God is the Supreme All-That-Is and All-There-Is, then logically it means that nothing exists outside of God. This would be a dualistic notion which contradicts the (my) definition of God. 

 

It's like a water molecule thinking it is separate from the ocean it is swimming in....what I call the real sin......to be a spiritual being and not be aware of it, and thus live in a self-created hell of ignorance. The "separation" is not created by the Source, but becomes real in the minds and hearts of those who show their backs to the Source. 
There is no divine punishment for this sin, other than the self inflicted exile from God's love.
Although people are free to choose to hide in dark caves, the sun never ceases to shine outside.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Sunmaster

[mauGR1]

I don't believe in hell as eternal damnation.

I believe that our soul, after leaving the physical body, goes through a process of purification, gradually getting rid of the influences of the physical world.

This process can be more or less painful, depending on the attachment to the physical world.

[Tippaporn]

7 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't believe in hell as eternal damnation.

I believe that our soul, after leaving the physical body, goes through a process of purification, gradually getting rid of the influences of the physical world.

This process can be more or less painful, depending on the attachment to the physical world.

Wow, this is a new one on me.  What physical influences might one be purified of?  Sounds to me like physical experience left a bad taste in the mouth.  Personally, I would never agree with any ideas which degrade or denigrate or cheapen physical experience nor it's influences.

 

These are some of the influences in my physical world.  While I could post the incomparable beauty of the natural world all day long I haven't even gotten round to posting other aspects of incomparable natural beauty to be found in this grand and mysterious world, such as the female body.  Ranks up there with the most beautiful sunsets, sunrises, etc, imaginable.  Purify me of this.  Never!

 

I fail to see anything I would ever want to be purified of.

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Tippaporn

[mauGR1]

16 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I fail to see anything I would ever want to be purified of.

 

Really ?

 

[Tippaporn]

7 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Really ?

 

I can't blame you for your view, mauGR1.  The pain and suffering available in this world is perhaps the number one perplexing aspect of this reality for people as they try to make sense of this reality.  Why, in heaven's name, does it exist?  I don't have a short answer for you or anyone else.  And even a long answer might not serve to bring immediate relief and understanding.  There are a number of concepts which, I believe, must be understood thoroughly to have any chance of coming to an understanding of why pain and suffering is allowed in our world or anywhere else.  I'll provide a single one, one which I believe is first and foremost.  I know it won't suffice but one must begin somewhere . . . 

 

All-That-Is, God, or whatever label is preferable set us free.  Freedom is the basis of all realities.  It is the basis of existence.  And that freedom is absolute.  No power in all of existence would attempt to deny freedom.  Especially the entity which set us free in the first place.  There is not a power in all of creation which can intrude into another's existence.  All-That-Is, in it's wisdom, set us free and in it's wisdom would never interfere with our freedom.

 

Life is an endless choice.  Without freedom choice cannot exist.

 

Who desires freedom?  Is there anyone here who does not?  Does anyone hear the cry for freedom in the world today?  Is it loud?  Is it deafening?

 

There is a caveat in there somewhere, though.  LOL  Ah, yes.  Absolute freedom implies absolute responsibility.  Oops!

 

Was it freedom which allowed an individual to fulfill himself through all of his accomplishments?  Was it freedom which allowed an individual to suffer all of his failures?  Man easily accepts his triumphs and pats himself on the back while taking credit.  Ah, but when it comes to misfortunes he is quick to point the finger, is he not?  Are you sick?  Did you have anything to do with it?  Are you wealthy?  Who created that?  Failed relationship?  Not your fault, correct?  (If you're a male) why she's the b!tch!!  And vice versa.

 

We are free to create anything we desire.  Whether it be creations which express our best ideas or our worst ideas.  All of it allowed.  God, or whatever, has not put a stop to any of it yet, has he?  Why?

 

If All-That-Is in it's wisdom gifted us with absolute freedom then it is perhaps we who have thus far lacked the wisdom to understand the gift we were given.

 

This concept of freedom is what sets me apart from 99.99999% of my fellow man.  It is rare to find another who understands true freedom and the many implications of it.  Freedom is my absolute number one desire in life and always has been.  It always will be.

 

Of course there is so much more to be said . . . 

[Tippaporn]

"You create your own reality.  There is no other rule."

 

Until that is thoroughly understood there is little else which can be understood.

[UbonThani]

11 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't believe in hell as eternal damnation.

I believe that our soul, after leaving the physical body, goes through a process of purification, gradually getting rid of the influences of the physical world.

This process can be more or less painful, depending on the attachment to the physical world.

So just a random made up theory

[Sunmaster]

Maybe @mauGR1is referring to the consequences of karma, which is the result of any action produced from the distorted lens of the ego, and which is the reason the soul decides to reincarnate again and again.

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, UbonThani said:

So just a random made up theory

Hinduism and Buddhism are hardly random made up theories.