Do you believe in God and why

[Tippaporn]

What are beliefs?  Can beliefs be seen not as beliefs about reality but as conditions of reality?  Can they so be mistaken?

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

What are beliefs?  Can beliefs be seen not as beliefs about reality but as conditions of reality?  Can they so be mistaken?

As you said there are many kinds of beliefs, but i'm not going to upset you saying that some beliefs are "better quality" than others.

Surely there is a world of difference between believing that that nice woman has a crush on me, or believing that 2 is the sum of 1 and 1.

Surely some would say they are just opinions, although some beliefs last for a minute or 2, some others may last for centuries, some for aeons, and some may be eternal.

[Sunmaster]

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

What are beliefs?  Can beliefs be seen not as beliefs about reality but as conditions of reality?  Can they so be mistaken?

You mean beliefs adapting and changing based on a changing reality?

[Sunmaster]

21 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You mean beliefs adapting and changing based on a changing reality?

Or beliefs adapting as an ever changing interpretation of an unchanging reality?

[Tippaporn]

42 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I just realised that you are absolutely spot on.

God has everything we can think about and possibly more, thus S/He has a purpose too.

I believe the idea of a purposeless existence is one that has originated from science.  If that is not it's origin (and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't) science has undoubtedly promoted and encouraged the idea.  As science leaves to philosophy questions which it cannot prove or otherwise address I'll again quote my favourite dead guy:

 

"Science insists that it does not deal with values, but leaves those to philosophers.  In stating that the universe is an accidental creation, however, a meaningless chance conglomeration formed by an unfeeling cosmos, it states quite clearly its belief that the universe and man's existence has no value.  All that remains is what pleasure or accomplishment can somehow be wrested from man's individual biological processes."

 

For anyone agreeing with the idea that life has no purpose (let's forget about whether it applies to God or not for a moment) consider for a moment the implications of such a world view.

 

Any takers?  I'd love to discuss all of the implications.  And, in fact, apply them practically to the individual and the world stage so as to possibly view their real world effects.

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Any takers?  I'd love to discuss all of the implications.  And, in fact, apply them practically to the individual and the world stage so as to possibly view their real world effects.

Not sure i can express the concept quite clearly, but i have the impression that when man's purpose starts to be in conflict with the Spirit's purpose, troubles start to happen.

The only time i really felt in contact with the Spirit, and i asked that question, the clear answer i got was:

"You have to create".

Since then, although i claim the right to be lazy, my best moments are when i'm being creative.

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

As you said there are many kinds of beliefs, but i'm not going to upset you saying that some beliefs are "better quality" than others.

Surely there is a world of difference between believing that that nice woman has a crush on me, or believing that 2 is the sum of 1 and 1.

Surely some would say they are just opinions, although some beliefs last for a minute or 2, some others may last for centuries, some for aeons, and some may be eternal.

Just to clear up a point, I never stated that there were many kinds of beliefs.  Beliefs can be held about many things.  But a belief is simply a belief.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

2 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

 there are many kinds of beliefs, but i'm not going to upset you saying that some beliefs are "better quality" than others.

Surely there is a world of difference between believing that that nice woman has a crush on me, or believing that 2 is the sum of 1 and 1.

Surely some would say they are just opinions, although some beliefs last for a minute or 2, some others may last for centuries, some for aeons, and some may be eternal.

Just to clear up a point, I never stated that there were many kinds of beliefs.  Beliefs can be held about many things.  But a belief is simply a belief.

There, corrected.

I'm still convinced that "belief" has a very broad meaning, as i pointed out in in my post.

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

You mean beliefs adapting and changing based on a changing reality?

Or beliefs adapting as an ever changing interpretation of an unchanging reality?

 

@Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

13 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Not sure i can express the concept quite clearly, but i have the impression that when man's purpose starts to be in conflict with the Spirit's purpose, troubles start to happen.

The only time i really felt in contact with the Spirit, and i asked that question, the clear answer i got was:

"You have to create".

Since then, although i claim the right to be lazy, my best moments are when i'm being creative.

I believe you received an accurate response.  You cannot help but create.  In that sense you are a God as well.  I'm sure you'll take exception with that statement as it suggests putting yourself on par with All-That-Is in a certain respect.

 

There's the popular idea, I believe based in religion, that God has a purpose for all of us.  Very specific purposes in fact, some would hold.  And we need to align with his purposes else we wander off the reservation.  Perhaps his purpose for us is for us to create in any way we choose to create.  No conflicts at all.  I understand where the idea may come from that if we do not align with God's purpose then trouble begins to happen.  I believe rather that when we create using ideas which are derived from a distorted view of reality then that's where the trouble begins.

 

For instance, we have been gifted with absolute freedom.  Yet look around the world and see all of the attempts, both historical and current, in which man attempts to remove the freedom of other men (never their own, of course).  The correct view of true reality is that all men are free.  The distorted view of true reality is that we shouldn't be free for w-h-a-t-e-v-e-r reasons.  When men begin to implement those erroneous ideas then not only do I smell trouble, I see it.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I believe you received an accurate response.  You cannot help but create.  In that sense you are a God as well.  I'm sure you'll take exception with that statement as it suggests putting yourself on par with All-That-Is in a certain respect.

 

Not disagreeing at all, we all have that Divine spark, but it's not like tonight i go to the pub and tell my friends that i am god.

I am content with being aware that the best part of myself and god are made from the same material.

12 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Perhaps his purpose for us is for us to create in any way we choose to create.  No conflicts at all.  I understand where the idea may come from that if we do not align with God's purpose then trouble begins to happen.  I believe rather that when we create using ideas which are derived from a distorted view of reality then that's where the trouble begins.

 

Isn't that the same reality described with different words ?

Anyway, the fact is that conflicts happen in the physical (or natural) world, in theory it can be possible that both parts involved in the conflict are right, and having a proper view of reality.

According to R. Steiner description of spiritual worlds, terrible tragedies which happen in the physical realms, are translated in something comparable to meteorological phenomenons in the "higher" or "greater", if you prefer, realms.

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

3 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

What are beliefs?  Can beliefs be seen not as beliefs about reality but as conditions of reality?  Can they so be mistaken?

You mean beliefs adapting and changing based on a changing reality?

Or beliefs adapting as an ever changing interpretation of an unchanging reality?

@Tippaporn

Sorry Sunmaster.  Following up on some thoughts with mauGR1.  Didn't mean to ignore your questions.

 

Beliefs no doubt change throughout one's lifetime.  Whether in response to a changing reality or an unchanging reality is immaterial to my point so I won't get into that part of your question.

 

As an example, let's say that someone has acquired a belief that they cannot find a mate in life.  The belief manifests itself as personal experience.  Personal experience reflects the belief perfectly.  The belief is then confirmed by experience.  Since the belief is confirmed by experience then an assumption is made that "I cannot find a mate" is a true condition of reality.  The belief in that case is then seen not as a belief about reality but as a condition of reality.

 

Change the belief and personal experience changes.  You're now getting laid a lot!!  Why?  Because physical reality is idea construction.  Throw out any ideas you want (of course there must be alignment with a belief in other ways as well) and they'll greet you in your experience.

 

What are your beliefs about old age?  What are your beliefs about money?  What are your beliefs about health?  My humble advice is to be very particular about which beliefs you wish to subscribe to.  Especially the ones which do you no benefit.  Argue all you want as to which ideas are r-e-a-l and which ones are not.  Thoughts are not without effects.

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

21 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Not disagreeing at all, we all have that Divine spark, but it's not like tonight i go to the pub and tell my friends that i am god.

I am content with being aware that the best part of myself and god are made from the same material.

Isn't that the same reality described with different words ?

Anyway, the fact is that conflicts happen in the physical (or natural) world, in theory it can be possible that both parts involved in the conflict are right, and having a proper view of reality.

According to R. Steiner description of spiritual worlds, terrible tragedies which happen in the physical realms, are translated in something comparable to meteorological phenomenons in the "higher" or "greater", if you prefer, realms.

Ah, what to do with our skeletons in the closet?  I would not advise rejecting any portion of yourself.  That's trouble with a capital "T."  It is said that we cannot love another if we do not love ourselves.  I would say that's true.  But how can you love yourself when you attempt to deny portions of yourself and keep them locked up in the basement?  All-That-Is does not reject any portion of you.  Why should you?  It's all a big misunderstanding.

 

As to your author's description, I would reiterate that nothing in physical reality, neither object nor event, occurs without first occurring in subjective reality.  Physical reality is a projection of subjective reality.  Physical reality is a translation of subjective reality into a physical medium.  No different than an artist who projects his subjectivity into a painting.  The artist's paints are the equivalent of our ideas.  Subjective reality is the source.

[Tippaporn]

Illusions

 

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours."

 

Richard Bach

[Sunmaster]

29 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Sorry Sunmaster.  Following up on some thoughts with mauGR1.  Didn't mean to ignore your questions.

 

Beliefs no doubt change throughout one's lifetime.  Whether in response to a changing reality or an unchanging reality is immaterial to my point so I won't get into that part of your question.

 

As an example, let's say that someone has acquired a belief that they cannot find a mate in life.  The belief manifests itself as personal experience.  Personal experience reflects the belief perfectly.  The belief is then confirmed by experience.  Since the belief is confirmed by experience then an assumption is made that "I cannot find a mate" is a true condition of reality.  The belief in that case is then seen not as a belief but as a condition of reality.

 

Change the belief and personal experience changes.  You're now getting laid a lot!!  Why?  Because physical reality is idea construction.  Throw out any ideas you want (of course there must be alignment with a belief in other ways as well) and they'll greet you in your experience.

 

What are your beliefs about old age?  What are your beliefs about money?  What are your beliefs about health?  My humble advice is to be very particular about which beliefs you wish to subscribe to.  Especially the ones which do you no benefit.  Argue all you want as to which ideas are r-e-a-l and which ones are not.  Thoughts are not without effects.

Absolutely.
We have to be very careful about the statements we make about ourselves. "I am" this or that is a very powerful imprint we put on reality and like you point to, a self fulfilling prophecy.  There is a whole section of yoga teachings about affirmations. Even though what you affirm has not yet materialized, you greatly accelerate its creation by repeating the affirmations while deeply focusing on what you want to create.

For those worried about their financial status, I would like to recommend a small book called "Happy pocket full of money". It has changed the way I looked at money and wealth by shifting my perception from a "lacking" status to a status of abundance. Change your perception and the outside will follow accordingly. In my case it worked very well. I started my own business while still employed and then became independent after a few years. 

[Tippaporn]

19 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Absolutely.
We have to be very careful about the statements we make about ourselves. "I am" this or that is a very powerful imprint we put on reality and like you point to, a self fulfilling prophecy.  There is a whole section of yoga teachings about affirmations. Even though what you affirm has not yet materialized, you greatly accelerate its creation by repeating the affirmations while deeply focusing on what you want to create.

For those worried about their financial status, I would like to recommend a small book called "Happy pocket full of money". It has changed the way I looked at money and wealth by shifting my perception from a "lacking" status to a status of abundance. Change your perception and the outside will follow accordingly. In my case it worked very well. I started my own business while still employed and then became independent after a few years. 

Here's a chapter heading in one of the books of my favourite dead guy:

 

Which You? Which World?  Your Daily Reality as an Expression of Specific Probable Events

 

And the following chapter:

 

Which You? Which World?  Only You Can Answer.  How to Free Yourself From Limitations

 

"The brain can be called simply the physical counterpart of the mind.  By means of the brain the functions of the soul and intellect are connected with the body.  Through the characteristics of the brain, events that are of nonphysical origin become physically valid.  There is a definite filtering and focusing effect at work, then.  Practically speaking, you do indeed form the appearance that reality takes through your conscious beliefs.  Those beliefs are used as screening and directing agents, separating certain nonphysical probable events from others, bringing them into three-dimensional actuality.

"Other probable events could just as well become physically experienced ones.  Those beliefs about yourself form your self image, and define your concepts of what is possible or not possible for you.  You will choose from those nonphysical probable events, therefore, only those you feel you are in accord with.

"Because of your psychological and psychic structure, there is within the rich makeup of your being a literally endless variety of what you may call probable selves.  In your present existence however you will utilize only those psychological characteristics that you believe you possess.  So, you see, the personality cannot be defined as being thus and so.

 

Who are you?  Who are you really?  I've been asking that the question be considered since I started posting.  Not too many have taken the question seriously.

 

I haven't touched on probabilities but as one might infer from the above there are literally endless probable worlds.  Isn't quantum physics finally catching up with the dead guy as they are now speculating as to the existence of an infinite number of parallel universes?  LOL  I did mention earlier that a number of scientists were quite intrigued with the dead guys work.  Enough so that they paid him visits.  He seemed to be mentioning quite valid aspects of reality in an uncanny way that perked their ears up.  Don't be fooled, though, folks.  It's all "woo."

 

Just one thing to add for you, Sunmaster.  Affirmations can certainly be effective.  In a very real sense they are figuratively and even physically rewiring the brain.  But they cannot override beliefs by themselves.  Assist, yes.  A good methodology, yes.  But the simple speaking of words, regardless of frequency, does not automatically alter a belief.  Ultimately, you must believe your affirmation.  Reality is not so fooled as to what comes out of one's mouth.

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Ah, what to do with our skeletons in the closet?  I would not advise rejecting any portion of yourself.  That's trouble with a capital "T."  It is said that we cannot love another if we do not love ourselves.  I would say that's true.  But how can you love yourself when you attempt to deny portions of yourself and keep them locked up in the basement?  All-That-Is does not reject any portion of you.  Why should you?  It's all a big misunderstanding.

 

 

Of course there are parts of myself which i don't really like, the work is in progress.

Hopefully i'll manage to improve.

For those who have managed to become perfect beings, well done, we need good examples.

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

As to your author's description, I would reiterate that nothing in physical reality, neither object nor event, occurs without first occurring in subjective reality.  Physical reality is a projection of subjective reality.  Physical reality is a translation of subjective reality into a physical medium.  No different than an artist who projects his subjectivity into a painting.  The artist's paints are the equivalent of our ideas.  Subjective reality is the source.

As for this part, it sounds about correct to me.

[Tippaporn]

13 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Of course there are parts of myself which i don't really like, the work is in progress.

Hopefully i'll manage to improve.

For those who have managed to become perfect beings, well done, we need good examples.

<snip>

We are not here to become perfect beings.  We're not even here to become "good" beings.  We are here to learn to create using the energy at our disposal.  Well, at least that's one reason.

 

In the truest sense we are already perfect.  We are always perfectly who we are.  Our ideas of who we are are always perfectly replicated in three dimensional space and time.

 

Learn to love yourself.  All of you.  Every last stitch.  There's never anything to be ashamed of.  Maybe one day I'll get into manufactured guilt.  Highly interesting.  Guilt is such an insidious thing.  Blech!

[mauGR1]

17 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

We are not here to become perfect beings.  We're not even here to become "good" beings.  We are here to learn to create using the energy at our disposal.  Well, at least that's one reason.

 

In the truest sense we are already perfect.  We are always perfectly who we are.  Our ideas of who we are are always perfectly replicated in three dimensional space and time.

 

Learn to love yourself.  All of you.  Every last stitch.  There's never anything to be ashamed of.  Maybe one day I'll get into manufactured guilt.  Highly interesting.  Guilt is such an insidious thing.  Blech!

Cannot disagree with what you say, glad you found your way, although you might concede that my path can be different from yours.

[Sunmaster]

40 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Just one thing to add for you, Sunmaster.  Affirmations can certainly be effective.  In a very real sense they are figuratively and even physically rewiring the brain.  But they cannot override beliefs by themselves.  Assist, yes.  A good methodology, yes.  But the simple speaking of words, regardless of frequency, does not automatically alter a belief.  Ultimately, you must believe your affirmation.  Reality is not so fooled as to what comes out of one's mouth.

Of course, .....right intention + right action = results

[Tippaporn]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Cannot disagree with what you say, glad you found your way, although you might concede that my path can be different from yours.

Of course your path is different from mine, as is everyone's.  So your point in reference to my post would be?

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Of course your path is different from mine, as is everyone's.  So your point in reference to my post would be?

"We are not here to become perfect beings.  We're not even here to become "good" beings.  We are here to learn to create using the energy at our disposal.  Well, at least that's one reason."

 

 This is what you think, and it's fine for me.

 

I learned that what one thinks today can be different tomorrow. Life can be surprising.

Well, that's one lesson i learned, so i regard your truth as temporary, as one day there may be different reasons for existing.

 

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Of course, .....right intention + right action = results

Thoughts produce emotion.  Not the other way around.  So beliefs create corresponding emotion.  Try taking a desire which you believe you cannot attain and telling yourself the opposite . . . that you can have this thing that you want.  Pay attention to your emotions.  Do your emotions match your desire or your true belief?  Easy enough to test out.  Key ingredients are thought, emotion and imagination.  The energy of each, and they each possess r-e-a-l energy in a literal sense and not just figuratively, must be going in the same direction.  If one is pulling against the other then you're not moving anywhere.  You stay where you are.

 

Thought provides the direction.  Emotion is the force which propels the nonphysical into the physical.  Intensity matters.  The stronger the emotion the quicker the results.

 

The above process is not something new.  It is not something that has never been done by any of us.  Since we've been creating from day one then obviously we've been using the process of creation throughout our entire lives.  Granted, perhaps not deliberately.  In any case each of us has plenty of personal examples to examine for ourselves.

 

Intention is certainly necessary but not enough in and of itself.  Belief is key.  Action is thought in motion.  If a desire is unimpeded then "right" action would come in the form of an impulse towards action.  The impulse must be followed though.  Action oftentimes isn't even necessary.  Some desires can manifest without any action taken at all.  I have plenty of examples in my own life where I have not taken any action myself.

 

Again, thought, emotion and imagination are the keys.

 

The above may sound very simplistic and I can imagine would generate a lot of questions (and a whole lotta laughs from some here, too).  Let's just say I'm pointing out a direction to follow for those who are interested.  Up to the individual to learn for themselves.  The answers are all out there as well, readily available.  I may not be providing clues much longer.  This is very time intensive for me.

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

29 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

"We are not here to become perfect beings.  We're not even here to become "good" beings.  We are here to learn to create using the energy at our disposal.  Well, at least that's one reason."

 

 This is what you think, and it's fine for me.

 

I learned that what one thinks today can be different tomorrow. Life can be surprising.

Well, that's one lesson i learned, so i regard your truth as temporary, as one day there may be different reasons for existing.

 

We've been exposed to so many misconceptions.  I've asked the question before; is it easier to learn or to unlearn?  Learning is easy.  Unlearning can be very slow and difficult.

 

True reality is never temporary.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

We've been exposed to so many misconceptions.  I've asked the question before; is it easier to learn or to unlearn?  Learning is easy.  Unlearning can be very slow and difficult.

 

True reality is never temporary.

Reality can be true and eternal, and it can be just temporarily true.

 

I think it can be easy to unlearn, but sometimes it's difficult because of attachment.

Your thoughts are valid, but cannot be applied to all humans in the same way.

What is good and true for you may be not so good and true for others.

[Tippaporn]

Great quotes from the Messiah's Handbook:

 

"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in it's hands.

"You seek problems because you need their gifts."

 

Richard Bach

[Tippaporn]

"Imagine the universe beautiful and just and perfect.  Then be sure of one thing: the Is has imagined it quite a bit better than you have."

 

Richard Bach

[Tippaporn]

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it true.  You may have to work for it, however."

 

Richard Bach

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

"Imagine the universe beautiful and just and perfect.  Then be sure of one thing: the Is has imagined it quite a bit better than you have."

 

Richard Bach

Funny that i was reading many of his books many years ago, and i greatly admired his writing style.

Yet i was missing something, perhaps i should re-read some of his works.

[Tippaporn]

"The world is your exercise book, the pages on which you do your sums.  It is not reality, though you can express reality there if you wish.  You are also free to write nonsense, or lies, or tear the pages."

 

Richard Bach