Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

19 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Most definitely. 

I'm fact, you just have to look in a mirror to see God in a human form. We're all God in a human form.

????

Yes, agree, in fact we can see God in everything, if we use the spiritual eyes.

[VincentRJ]

4 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Most definitely. 

I'm fact, you just have to look in a mirror to see God in a human form. We're all God in a human form.

????

 

Oh my Gosh! What a narcissist you are! ????

[Sunmaster]

28 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

Oh my Gosh! What a narcissist you are! ????

55 I would be if I thought I was the only one. Amazingly enough, you too are God in human form. ????

[VincentRJ]

43 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

55 I would be if I thought I was the only one. Amazingly enough, you too are God in human form. ????

 

Which means there are as many Gods as there are people; and if God is everything, then there are Gazillions upon Gazillions of Gods, or perhaps just one God with Gazillions upon Gazillions of different characteristics. Crazy! ????

 

On the other hand, if it's not crazy, and is true, then every human would have to admit they have such an extremely limited knowledge of God, it would be close to zero. ????

Edited February 10, 2021 by VincentRJ

[Sunmaster]

42 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

Which means there are as many Gods as there are people; and if God is everything, then there are Gazillions upon Gazillions of Gods, or perhaps just one God with Gazillions upon Gazillions of different characteristics. Crazy! ????

 

I think you're confusing things here. If God is everything and the Ground-Of-All-Being, it is just logical to say that we too are made of the same God-stuff as everything else. If God is the pure eternal consciousness, then our consciousness too is part of that consciousness, which is indivisible, eternal and omnipresent. As the great sages said throughout history, we are all already enlightened (meaning perfect reflections of God-consciousness), we just haven't realized it yet (most of us anyway).
Maybe you are confusing this with the ego-centric idea that every separate ego-entity must then be a separate God, fighting each other to see who the "real" God is. That is indeed a crazy idea. Has your index finger more "fingerness" than your pinky? Or can your left hand claim to be more you than your right hand? 
Can you see the difference?

 

42 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

On the other hand, if it's not crazy, and is true, then every human would have to admit they have such an extremely limited knowledge of God, it would be close to zero. ????

On this point I can't but agree. One has to try to increase the knowledge (not just intellectual knowledge!) regardless.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Sunmaster

[mauGR1]

52 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

On the other hand, if it's not crazy, and is true, then every human would have to admit they have such an extremely limited knowledge of God, it would be close to zero. ????

Imho, the majority of people are not really interested in such knowledge.. they choose to be atheists, or believers to be accepted in a group. 

It's not by chance that the ones who are on some spiritual path have to deal with loneliness. 

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

...

It's not by chance that the ones who are on some spiritual path have to deal with loneliness. 

True words > loneliness is indeed one of the stages on the esoteric path of initiation.

Loneliness is a necessary phase that has to be passed through; in the Tarot it is symbolized by the ninth card, the Hermit. But this loneliness is not connected with one's outward activity; it is an inner experience which goes together with not being understood by the world. A deep gulf of incomprehension and alienation opens up between the individual and the world around him. He becomes a hermit, even if he is surrounded by a hundred people.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Even lower animals than humans can "reason" that it's not a good idea to run into a fire, so I find your claim to be pointless. I said "I'd be more convinced by your argument re "reason" if more humans used it. Most I know are quite unreasonable"

Obviously I was using "reasonable" as a description and not as a process. If more people used reason, wars and poverty would not, IMO, exist.

 

Even related to this thread, if some posters used reason, they might conclude that if they can't prove God does not exist, and IMO they can't prove that simply because humans don't know much about the universe beyond what they can actually see and measure with such primitive tools as humans currently possess, they might acknowledge that if they can't prove the non existence of God, that ergo God might exist, rather than dogmatically stating that as a fact God does not exist.

 

It is my opinion that in the capability of understanding such matters as love and faith, humans have advanced not an iota from the cave.

We live in a world still riven by tribalism and war- IMO the only real advances we have made in 50,000 years is in how to kill each other more efficiently. It is somewhat significant IMO that we spend more on weapons to kill each other than we do on helping the most desperate humans live better lives. Reason might inform us that having an enormous underclass that has to be suppressed by vast numbers of police is not a good idea. Perhaps not surprisingly if one looks at who possesses most of the wealth and treasure in humanity we humans still think lots and lots of weapons are a better option than co operation and love for each other. It's not as though God has not informed us as to the correct path to follow- the Christ often mentioned "love" as the way forward, along with forgiveness, and charity. It's not God's fault that such advice is ignored.

 

In my opinion, if God ever was invested in what happens to the human race, God would have abandoned us to our fate, as we would appear, IMO, to be a lost cause.

 

 

 

It has probably been said but keep in mind that saying I know there is no god and not believing in god are two different things. 

 

Boy your are a pessimist. Living in New Zealand one of the most free countries, with a fair  police force, excellent healthcare, no pollution,  and a bounty of good food and you say we have not made advances in 50,000 years. 

Poverty is way down around the world in just the last 30 years. Bad stuff happens but good stuff happens too. 

On your last point if God supposedly says we should love each other he should have given a better guide book on how to achieve it. The old Bible is full of weird and wonderful stories of revenge and hatred and loyalty and faith for loyalty and faith's sake. The new bible isn't really practical - no one I see really lives by it. The buddhist stuff is a bit more practical but you could argue that love, particularly romantic love,  is not the aim but detachment from such emotions is the aim.

 

 

 

[mauGR1]

28 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

your last point if God supposedly says we should love each other he should have given a better guide book on how to achieve it.

Really ? I was thinking that the 10 commandments were clear enough as a guideline for a functioning society. You don't need to be religious to appreciate that.

In the end,  " don't do to others what you don't want the others do to you " is the basic principle for a successful cohabitation.. 

Perhaps is not God or even religion which is wrong here.

[Tagged]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

Really ? I was thinking that the 10 commandments were clear enough as a guideline for a functioning society. You don't need to be religious to appreciate that.

In the end,  " don't do to others what you don't want the others do to you " is the basic principle for a successful cohabitation.. 

Perhaps is not God or even religion which is wrong here.

Touche 

 

Simple right? 

 

 

????????????????????

[Fat is a type of crazy]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Really ? I was thinking that the 10 commandments were clear enough as a guideline for a functioning society. You don't need to be religious to appreciate that.

In the end,  " don't do to others what you don't want the others do to you " is the basic principle for a successful cohabitation.. 

Perhaps is not God or even religion which is wrong here.

Fair point I guess. One or two pages I assume out of 100's of pages. 

 

The first 5 seem to be about god being the one and only. Let's just think about that. He comes across like a boring dictator. So half of it is nothing much in my opinion.

 

The second 5 are OK. Be good to your parents, don't kill, cheat, gossip  or covet your neighbour's wife, servant  or ox.

 Don't need the bible to know not to kill. I think people would work that out for practical and moral reasons.

Thai's seem much better and caring for parents and they don't follow the bible. 

So my wife and servant are property like an ox. 

Still there is some good advice there.

I am not saying there are not stories or parables in the bible that cannot inspire, heal and give guidance. If you find it gives you solace then you may interpret it in a different way. I am not a student of the bible.

But I am saying in my opinion there is a lot of stuff that as far as I am concerned is not a good guide to how to love or live either in spiritual or practical terms.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

But I am saying in my opinion there is a lot of stuff that as far as I am concerned is not a good guide to how to love or live either in spiritual or practical terms.

The good guide is yourself imho, and your innate sense of justice. 

As for the bible,  personally I take what I like out of it,  the rest has to be interpreted,  but that can be a difficult task, as we have to consider the manipulation,  voluntary or not,  which has happened  during the centuries, and the fact that the times are always changing. 

[rcuthbert]

Human adults could be the Universe's equivalent  of babies. Perhaps our' greatest minds - Einstein, da Vinci, Plato - are the Universal equivalent of prodigious  infants.

[Sunmaster]

50 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I am not saying there are not stories or parables in the bible that cannot inspire, heal and give guidance. If you find it gives you solace then you may interpret it in a different way. I am not a student of the bible.

But I am saying in my opinion there is a lot of stuff that as far as I am concerned is not a good guide to how to love or live either in spiritual or practical terms.

I agree. I'm not a student of the bible either, because I found far more practical teachings elsewhere. 
Anyway, why do you care about what the bible says or how others interpret it/live by it?

[Fat is a type of crazy]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I agree. I'm not a student of the bible either, because I found far more practical teachings elsewhere. 
Anyway, why do you care about what the bible says or how others interpret it/live by it?

Why do you care about the reason I care about what others care about.

In actual fact I was going to just comment on the New Zealand thing as I agree there's no point trying to find the bad in things such as the Bible just for the sake of it. If people like it good for them. If people use it to tell me what to do or how I should act then it is fair game. They do all the time - in politics particularly.

The jokes been made ad nauseum but the fact these white capitalistic moralisers follow an angry middle eastern dark skinned, basically communist or non-materialistic , probably four foot tall guy, from 2000 years ago is sometimes confusing. 

 

It makes it interesting too because I think anyone brought up in a western country has probably been shaped by christianity more than they might like to admit. 

I know christians who live in a really positive non judgemental way. So I have no doubt that if you take the best of it you can fashion it into something good.

We all know of that other sort of Christian too. 

 

  

[mauGR1]

12 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Why do you care about the reason I care about what others care about.

In actual fact I was going to just comment on the New Zealand thing as I agree there's no point trying to find the bad in things such as the Bible just for the sake of it. If people like it good for them. If people use it to tell me what to do or how I should act then it is fair game. They do all the time - in politics particularly.

The jokes been made ad nauseum but the fact these white capitalistic moralisers follow an angry middle eastern dark skinned, basically communist or non-materialistic , probably four foot tall guy, from 2000 years ago is sometimes confusing. 

 

It makes it interesting too because I think anyone brought up in a western country has probably been shaped by christianity more than they might like to admit. 

I know christians who live in a really positive non judgemental way. So I have no doubt that if you take the best of it you can fashion it into something good.

We all know of that other sort of Christian too. 

 

  

Perhaps i should not say anything, but I'd like to tell you that Jesus is not responsible for your troubles,  nor for any troubles caused by ignorance. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/10/2021 at 1:06 PM, mauGR1 said:

I would also like to reiterate my opinion that, while is obviously wrong to think that God has a human form, or a limited form, it would be as much as wrong to think that he's not able to take a human form.

It's obvious to me that the creator can do anything the creator wishes to do. Human on earth, a mobile silicone blob on a different planet a few galaxies away, and a cloud of intelligent gas on a planet in a different galaxy. Nothing is beyond the creator's scope, even making water flow upwards or creating a planet with a hollow core to live in, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

It has probably been said but keep in mind that saying I know there is no god and not believing in god are two different things. 

 

Boy your are a pessimist. Living in New Zealand one of the most free countries, with a fair  police force, excellent healthcare, no pollution,  and a bounty of good food and you say we have not made advances in 50,000 years. 

Poverty is way down around the world in just the last 30 years. Bad stuff happens but good stuff happens too. 

On your last point if God supposedly says we should love each other he should have given a better guide book on how to achieve it. The old Bible is full of weird and wonderful stories of revenge and hatred and loyalty and faith for loyalty and faith's sake. The new bible isn't really practical - no one I see really lives by it. The buddhist stuff is a bit more practical but you could argue that love, particularly romantic love,  is not the aim but detachment from such emotions is the aim.

 

 

 

LOL. Do you even live in NZ? A country where families had to sleep in cars ( before corona changed things and they live in motels now ) and young people will probably never be able to own a house because house prices are out of control, poverty is widespread with kids going to school hungry, lucky to even see a cop if burgled, polluted rivers ( and lead in drinking water now ), and some people eat bad food most of the time- takeaways do really well here. As for your assertion that healthcare is excellent- sure, if one is wealthy, but terrible for the poor. I had better health care in Thailand than I get in NZ. I won't get into all the other bad stuff going on in NZ.

 

NZ is "free" 55555555555555555 It's just as PC as any other western country.

Taking your claims at face value I don't think you do live in NZ, or if you do you are rich.

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Do you even live in NZ? A country where families had to sleep in cars ( before corona changed things and they live in motels now ) and young people will probably never be able to own a house because house prices are out of control, poverty is widespread with kids going to school hungry, lucky to even see a cop if burgled, polluted rivers ( and lead in drinking water now ), and some people eat bad food most of the time- takeaways do really well here. As for your assertion that healthcare is excellent- sure, if one is wealthy, but terrible for the poor. I had better health care in Thailand than I get in NZ. I won't get into all the other bad stuff going on in NZ.

 

NZ is "free" 55555555555555555 It's just as PC as any other western country.

Taking your claims at face value I don't think you do live in NZ, or if you do you are rich.

 

Hey! You should write to Richard Dawkins to inform him how bad New Zealand is. ????

 

He thinks it's a marvelous country. After witnessing the chaos in America, because of Trump, and the chaos in Britain because of Brexit, he thinks New Zealand might be the ideal country.

 

Watch the interview in the following link.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/prominent-atheist-richard-dawkins-wants-to-move-to-ideal-country-new-zealand.html

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

Hey! You should write to Richard Dawkins to inform him how bad New Zealand is. ????

 

He thinks it's a marvelous country. After witnessing the chaos in America, because of Trump, and the chaos in Britain because of Brexit, he thinks New Zealand might be the ideal country.

 

Watch the interview in the following link.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/prominent-atheist-richard-dawkins-wants-to-move-to-ideal-country-new-zealand.html

It wouldn't be the first time he talks about things he has no clue about... ???? ???? 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, VincentRJ said:

 

Hey! You should write to Richard Dawkins to inform him how bad New Zealand is. ????

 

He thinks it's a marvelous country. After witnessing the chaos in America, because of Trump, and the chaos in Britain because of Brexit, he thinks New Zealand might be the ideal country.

 

Watch the interview in the following link.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/prominent-atheist-richard-dawkins-wants-to-move-to-ideal-country-new-zealand.html

I don't know who he is, or why you think he's "someone", but I did point out that for the rich, NZ is a great country, for the not well off, and I'm one of them, NZ is not an ideal country. Even though I can't afford to rent a house in NZ, in LOS I lived in a great hotel, and had the life of Riley- I even got to eat at real restaurants. In NZ I have lots of extra expenses like having to have a car- in LOS I didn't need one. Everything is expensive and I can't even get my BP drugs over the counter so I have to pay a Dr a large amount just to get a refill. Even little things like those eye glasses that cost NZ$4 in LOS, cost NZ$12 in NZ. Movies cost NZ$15 in NZ and NZ$4 in Chiang Mai.

Travel by train in LOS is really cheap and lots of trains to everywhere, but in NZ hardly any trains and cost a lot so have to use the intercity bus which doesn't even have a toilet on board and costs a lot.

Bottom line is I had a far, far better life in Thailand and it cost me way less to do so.

 

Sure, loads of rich Americans want to live here because we don't have corona like in the US, but life is sweet in NZ for the rich.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/prominent-atheist-richard-dawkins-wants-to-move-to-ideal-country-new-zealand.html

If he's an atheist he'll feel right at home in NZ. Religion isn't a big deal here, and mainly, IMO, for the older generation. The young generation worships mobile phones, social media and hi tech, IMO. Pity they can't count in their heads- they use computers for everything at school, apparently, and they are pretty scathing about their elders- I see their ageism in their faces when I go in a shop.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Do you even live in NZ? A country where families had to sleep in cars ( before corona changed things and they live in motels now ) and young people will probably never be able to own a house because house prices are out of control, poverty is widespread with kids going to school hungry, lucky to even see a cop if burgled, polluted rivers ( and lead in drinking water now ), and some people eat bad food most of the time- takeaways do really well here. As for your assertion that healthcare is excellent- sure, if one is wealthy, but terrible for the poor. I had better health care in Thailand than I get in NZ. I won't get into all the other bad stuff going on in NZ.

 

NZ is "free" 55555555555555555 It's just as PC as any other western country.

Taking your claims at face value I don't think you do live in NZ, or if you do you are rich.

I live in even a better place. Australia.

I have heard property is out of control - they changed the law in New Zealand I think so you had to be a resident to buy. I've only been to the north island but it just seemed so idyllic and green and healthy. South island looks even better but a bit cold. We'll see who gets to Thailand first after they open up. My girlfriend is in Ubon so that's not fun.

It is cheaper in Thailand but to be honest in recent trips I got a bit sick of the thai food all the time at restaurants and stuff - MSG and salty and oily if you are not careful. Better get back to talk about god.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I live in even a better place. Australia.

I have heard property is out of control - they changed the law in New Zealand I think so you had to be a resident to buy. I've only been to the north island but it just seemed so idyllic and green and healthy. South island looks even better but a bit cold. We'll see who gets to Thailand first after they open up. My girlfriend is in Ubon so that's not fun.

It is cheaper in Thailand but to be honest in recent trips I got a bit sick of the thai food all the time at restaurants and stuff - MSG and salty and oily if you are not careful. Better get back to talk about god.

 

I'd rather live in Oz, but that opportunity has passed me by, so add another item to the long list of what I should have done in my life. I could have worked in the mines in the 80s and minted it, but passed on it to live with my first partner from hell in NZ- stupid me.

 

If you came to north island now it's brown from drought- two weeks ago it was green. Couple I know just gave up on the south island and returned north- too wet and cold for too long. I prefer the south island but everyone I know lives near where I am now.

 

I didn't eat much Thai food when in LOS, as I don't like spicy food. Fried rice chicken mainly. Mostly western food.

 

LOS is a country blessed by God- never cold, vegetables grow easily, so no one should starve, education is pretty much universal till high school, electricity most places, good railways, intercity buses and roads, adequate health care most places. If one doesn't look for trouble and one is prepared to work, life can be fine even if not wealthy. It's not perfect, as no where is, but it was everything I ever wanted, till I lost my brain in my pants and got married. The end, but of my own making.

 

If I believed in a personal God, which I don't, I'd wonder what God had against me to end up as I have, but I know that God created life the universe and everything and left the planet to get on with it.

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't know who he is, or why you think he's "someone",

 

Wow! You've been discussing 'God' matters with so many posts in this long thread, yet you don't know who Richard Dawkins is??

 

"Richard Dawkins is a British ethologist, evolutionary biologist, and author. He is an emeritus fellow of New College, Oxford, and was the University of Oxford's Professor for Public Understanding of Science from 1995 until 2008."

 

"Dawkins is known as an atheist. He is well known for his criticism of creationism and intelligent design. In 'The Blind Watchmaker' (1986), he argues against the watchmaker analogy, an argument for the existence of a supernatural creator based upon the complexity of living organisms. Instead, he describes evolutionary processes as analogous to a blind watchmaker, in that reproduction, mutation, and selection are unguided by any designer. In The God Delusion (2006), Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that religious faith is a delusion." 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins

 

Get informed! ????

[Sunmaster]

4 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

Wow! You've been discussing 'God' matters with so many posts in this long thread, yet you don't know who Richard Dawkins is??

 

"Richard Dawkins is a British ethologist, evolutionary biologist, and author. He is an emeritus fellow of New College, Oxford, and was the University of Oxford's Professor for Public Understanding of Science from 1995 until 2008."

 

"Dawkins is known as an atheist. He is well known for his criticism of creationism and intelligent design. In 'The Blind Watchmaker' (1986), he argues against the watchmaker analogy, an argument for the existence of a supernatural creator based upon the complexity of living organisms. Instead, he describes evolutionary processes as analogous to a blind watchmaker, in that reproduction, mutation, and selection are unguided by any designer. In The God Delusion (2006), Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that religious faith is a delusion." 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins

 

Get informed! ????

Why does he say "almost certainly does not exist"? Does he want to keep the door open just in case he's wrong? ???? Not so sure about his opinion? Because that's what it is in the end, an opinion, even if it comes from an emeritus fellow. And an especially uninformed one on top of that, because he looks at the whole thing from the outside, instead of exploring it from the inside. It's like listening to a Bedouin lecturing about the Antarctic, without him ever having been there. ???? 
He should talk about the things he knows, like plants and such. Why anyone would want to listen to him in regards of Spirituality is beyond me.

[FarFlungFalang]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Nothing is beyond the creator's scope, even making water flow upwards

Could M C Escher be the creator?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by FarFlungFalang

[VincentRJ]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Why does he say "almost certainly does not exist"?

 Because he's a scientist, and those who understand the 'methodology" of science understand that nothing is 100% certain. 'Climate Change Alarmists' should take note, as well as 'God Believers'. ????

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 Because he's a scientist, and those who understand the 'methodology" of science understand that nothing is 100% certain. 'Climate Change Alarmists' should take note, as well as 'God Believers'. ????

Uhm, i heard that death and taxes are 100% certain,  apparently even for the scientists.. Try to keep up, will you..

On the other end, believing in God gives us hope for some sort of immortality , and either way, we're not going to be disappointed ????

[VincentRJ]

52 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Uhm, i heard that death and taxes are 100% certain,  apparently even for the scientists.. Try to keep up, will you..

 

I'm retired with no debts, and have a modest income from a superannuation fund which is below the taxation threshold, so I pay no tax. 

 

"Human corpses frozen by cryogenics could be brought back to life in the next decade, an expert has claimed.
Around 350 people worldwide have had their corpse preserved at low temperatures immediately after death in the hope it can be revived in the future.
Dennis Kowalski, president of the Michigan-based Cryonics Institute - an organisation fronting the human freezing process - has now claimed scientists could reanimate one of these corpses within the next ten years."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5270257/Cryogenics-corpses-brought-10-years.html

 

Looks like you are the one who should try to 'keep up'. ????