Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

How is the door opened

 

I already said it: through dis-identification with the ego, which can be achieved by spiritual or other practices.
 

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

what actually passes through the door

 

That's for you to find out.

 

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

how is information transferred from the spirit world to the material world.

 

Imagine you are a radio receiver. All radio stations are available right now, but you choose to tune in to the "material world" station. You've been taught that this station is the only one playing, so you've never tried to change it. This station however is the equivalent of the Thai lakorns and some people get bored with all that drama. When they do, they start turning that knob and look for other stations and surprise surprise, there are countless other stations available. So, information/data is received by the radio and commuted into sound waves. In the same way, information is received by you and then translated into concepts and words.

 

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

Who or what is in the spirit world.

 

Ultimately, the Self is all there is.

 

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

How does the spirit world function.

 

You sit down, close your eyes, breathe in, breathe out and watch your thoughts pass by without getting attached to them.
Eventually you'll find out.

Good luck

Edited July 9, 2021 by Sunmaster

[chalawaan]

I can't believe this thread has gone on this long, it seems a bit inane of a topic, no offence to the contributors. 

To be polite an stay on topic...

 

I was a born-again botherer who saw the light after reading The God Delusion -to debunk it!

 

I actually came to BKK for the first time in that deluded state, what a waste of wild 1990's Bangkok, Chalawaan you eeediot!!!

 

Now I'm a wang dang diddly aye oh Ay thee ust.

 

So see youse in Hell.

 

I'll be the one wearing flashing plastic horns roughing up the shriveled souls of Prayuth and Pomprow down there...

Edited July 9, 2021 by chalawaan

[mauGR1]

20 minutes ago, chalawaan said:

I can't believe this thread has gone on this long, it seems a bit inane of a topic, no offence to the contributors. 

To be polite an stay on topic...

 

I was a born-again botherer who saw the light after reading The God Delusion -to debunk it!

 

I actually came to BKK for the first time in that deluded state, what a waste of wild 1990's Bangkok, Chalawaan you eeediot!!!

 

Now I'm a wang dang diddly aye oh Ay thee ust.

 

So see youse in Hell.

 

I'll be the one wearing flashing plastic horns roughing up the shriveled souls of Prayuth and Pomprow down there...

Inane topic eh, and what to say about your post ?

[Sunmaster]

I forgot to add...

Opening the doors of perception alone is in no way a guarantee for a spiritual or mystical experience. 

[cleopatra2]

8 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I already said it: through dis-identification with the ego, which can be achieved by spiritual or other practices.
 

That's for you to find out.

 

Imagine you are a radio receiver. All radio stations are available right now, but you choose to tune in to the "material world" station. You've been taught that this station is the only one playing, so you've never tried to change it. This station however is the equivalent of the Thai lakorns and some people get bored with all that drama. When they do, they start turning that knob and look for other stations and surprise surprise, there are countless other stations available. So, information/data is received by the radio and commuted into sound waves. In the same way, information is received by you and then translated into concepts and words.

 

Ultimately, the Self is all there is.

 

You sit down, close your eyes, breathe in, breathe out and watch your thoughts pass by without getting attached to them.
Eventually you'll find out.

Good luck

So would you say that a person who claims to be able to fly whilst under the influence of opiates , is in touch with spirit world and in that world can actually fly.

 

if not why is this different to the ancient Shamans mentioned earlier post.

[Sunmaster]

20 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

So would you say that a person who claims to be able to fly whilst under the influence of opiates , is in touch with spirit world and in that world can actually fly.

 

if not why is this different to the ancient Shamans mentioned earlier post.

Carlos Castaneda asked his shaman teacher Don Juan the same question. I remember that Don Juan always avoided answering the question, because putting it into words would only confuse the issue more.

I think Don Juan was a wise shaman. 

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Carlos Castaneda asked his shaman teacher Don Juan the same question. I remember that Don Juan always avoided answering the question, because putting it into words would only confuse the issue more.

I think Don Juan was a wise shaman. 

Another "God works in mysterious ways " platitude.

[Sunmaster]

10 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Another "God works in mysterious ways " platitude.

If your child came up to you and asked you "How does the universe work?", would you start explaining Einstein's theory of relativity, quantum mechanics and cosmological constant? Or would you try explaining it in terms the kid can understand?

I've spend a good deal of time answering all your questions the best I could. A thankless job apparently.
If you're not happy with the answers, feel free to do your own research. There's plenty of material out there just waiting to be discovered by inquisitive minds.
 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Sunmaster

[cleopatra2]

28 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

If your child came up to you and asked you "How does the universe work?", would you start explaining Einstein's theory of relativity, quantum mechanics and cosmological constant? Or would you try explaining it in terms the kid can understand?

I've spend a good deal of time answering all your questions the best I could. A thankless job apparently.
If you're not happy with the answers, feel free to do your own research. There's plenty of material out there just waiting to be discovered by inquisitive minds.
 

This embodies the concept of the spirit world.

You have not answered any questions , but merely written sentences that explain nothing.

Your analogy with radio waves is flawed at the most basic level. Any person can tune a radio to the same station and receive the same signal if in the same vicinity of the transmitter , they do not need to have a special teaching to open the doorway.

Two people can tune into the radio into the same frequency , but if one is outside the transmitters range they will receive something different. (How can this be possible if the spirit world is everywhere).

 

But the issue is more basic.

Humanity as a rich history of inventing mystical beings to explain a lack of understanding and knowledge. As an example , different cultures throughout the world characterized eclipses as demons or dragons devouring the sun. Even to the extent that they would perform ceremonies in an attempt to frighten the demon off. In India people would worship  by bathing in water to help the sun fight the dragon.

 

Is it not more probable the spirit world is a made up  to explain what is uknown.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by cleopatra2

[Sunmaster]

3 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Your analogy with radio waves is flawed at the most basic level. Any person can tune a radio to the same station and receive the same signal if in the same vicinity of the transmitter , they do not need to have a special teaching to open the doorway.

The definition of an analogy is a literal comparison between two things that have some features that are the same and others which are different. 
Opening the doorway is a skill that has to be learned. The choice is very simple: you either learn the skill or you don't. Up to you.

 

7 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

You have not answered any questions , but merely written sentences that explain nothing.

 

Ok. Have a nice day.
 

[cleopatra2]

15 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The definition of an analogy is a literal comparison between two things that have some features that are the same and others which are different. 
Opening the doorway is a skill that has to be learned. The choice is very simple: you either learn the skill or you don't. Up to you.

 

Ok. Have a nice day.
 

Would the ancient Egyptians who treated infected wounds with moldy bread be regarded as shaman in touch with the spirit world. or accidently discovered anti-biotics.

Edited July 10, 2021 by cleopatra2

[Sunmaster]

18 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Would the ancient Egyptians who treated infected wounds with moldy bread be regarded as shaman in touch with the spirit world. or merely discovered anti-biotics.

Why does it have to be either/or?

Edited July 10, 2021 by Sunmaster

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Would the ancient Egyptians who treated infected wounds with moldy bread be regarded as shaman in touch with the spirit world. or accidently discovered anti-biotics.

It would be confusing for the ancient to find themselves in the modern world,  and I'd bet it would be as much as confusing for us if we could time travel to the ancient times. 

Some qualities,  or "powers" have been gained,  and others got lost.

The theory that, on average,  we are better and smarter than the ancient people in general terms, is flawed imho.

I would call it pseudoscience propaganda ????

[Joinaman]

stopped believing in my imaginary friends when I was around 3 years old

World would be a better place if others had done so 

More people die because they think their imaginary friend is better than someone else . 

[cleopatra2]

13 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Why does it have to be either/or?

I have not seen any justification for the promotion of a spirt world.

 

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

World would be a better place if others had done so 

Can you prove it ?

[Sunmaster]

9 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

I have not seen any justification for the promotion of a spirt world.

 

....and? I have never seen a black hole, but I trust those who have more knowledge about astronomy than I have and say they are out there. 
If you don't trust anyone in regards to spiritual matters, the only way is to find out by yourself, which is the best option anyway.
 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Sunmaster

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

I have not seen any justification for the promotion of a spirt world.

 

In the modern world,  "thinking outside the box" pretty much sums it up.

There is no need for justification, and it's not a promotion. 

It is because it is.

Thought is real, and so are countless states of consciousness and planes of existence. 

Again, it's not a promotion, it's good to have one's feet on the ground, but the head,  like it or not, is in the sky.

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

In the modern world,  "thinking outside the box" pretty much sums it up.

There is no need for justification, and it's not a promotion. 

It is because it is.

Thought is real, and so are countless states of consciousness and planes of existence. 

Again, it's not a promotion, it's good to have one's feet on the ground, but the head,  like it or not, is in the sky.

Thought is real

how does this work, if i think i have a million dollars in a cardboard box , does it exist ?

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, cleopatra2 said:

Thought is real

how does this work, if i think i have a million dollars in a cardboard box , does it exist ?

Yes....in you head......(or they are Schrodinger dollars).

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

....and? I have never seen a black hole, but I trust those who have more knowledge about astronomy than I have and say they are out there. 
If you don't trust anyone in regards to spiritual matters, the only way is to find out by yourself, which is the best option anyway.
 

The difference being 

The presence of a black hole can be observed and detected.

 

A question about the existence of a black hole can be asked and applied , with the result either supporting or not supporting the theory.

 

What questions can be applied to the existence of the spirit world ?

[cleopatra2]

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Yes....in you head......(or they are Schrodinger dollars).

Exactly it is only real in my head.

like the Sun eating dragons

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Thought is real

how does this work, if i think i have a million dollars in a cardboard box , does it exist ?

Yes, it exists in your imagination. 

If you want it in the material reality,  you'll have to work harder.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, cleopatra2 said:

Exactly it is only real in my head.

like the Sun eating dragons

One has to consider,  for example,  that the thought of an individual has a different "weight", when compared to the thought of a number of people. 

Like it or not,  thoughts can and will influence the physical reality... to which extent, it's  debatable. 

[cleopatra2]

8 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

One has to consider,  for example,  that the thought of an individual has a different "weight", when compared to the thought of a number of people. 

Like it or not,  thoughts can and will influence the physical reality... to which extent, it's  debatable. 

Thoughts obviously do have an effect on the surrounding reality. However the thoughts must have a basis in reality.

But thinking of something that does not exist will not create that reality.

Tearing up a death certificate will not bring a cadaver back to life.

 

 

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, cleopatra2 said:

Tearing up a death certificate will not bring a cadaver back to life.

....and yet my wife can breathe life into arguments we had years ago......making them real again?

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Thoughts obviously do have an effect on the surrounding reality. However the thoughts must have a basis in reality.

The basis for a thought is created by thought itself.

The point,  though,  is that what we call reality is the result of thoughts. 

In other words, physical reality is condensed thought,  in the same way ice is condensed water.

[Sunmaster]

30 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The difference being 

The presence of a black hole can be observed and detected.

 

A question about the existence of a black hole can be asked and applied , with the result either supporting or not supporting the theory.

 

What questions can be applied to the existence of the spirit world ?

The inner world can equally be observed, tested and the findings subjected to peer review. This is what happens in all spiritual systems such as Yoga or Zen.  
If you were to start meditating today, you would encounter the same obstacles as everyone else did before you. When you share your findings with other practitioners, they will know what you're talking about and will be able to guide you through those obstacles, because they passed them already. The inner world has been mapped in great detail in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali for example. I recommend you read them.
Don't waste your time asking others whether the inner world exists or not. Find out by yourself by honing the skills that can take you there. That is one skill you will never regret learning.

[Surelynot]

11 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

in the same way ice is condensed water.

It actually expands......sorry.....couldn't resist.

[cleopatra2]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The inner world can equally be observed, tested and the findings subjected to peer review. This is what happens in all spiritual systems such as Yoga or Zen.  
If you were to start meditating today, you would encounter the same obstacles as everyone else did before you. When you share your findings with other practitioners, they will know what you're talking about and will be able to guide you through those obstacles, because they passed them already. The inner world has been mapped in great detail in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali for example. I recommend you read them.
Don't waste your time asking others whether the inner world exists or not. Find out by yourself by honing the skills that can take you there. That is one skill you will never regret learning.

I am not discounting yoga or meditation. My issue is with the spirit world , the so called door into another realm . 

How can it be peer reviewed when nobody will describe its inner workings or what it contains. You have stated that each individual will have their own unique experience.

Before i attempt to go on this journey what is the fundamental question i should be applying to be able to support or not support the existence of this spirit world?