Do you believe in God and why

[Sparktrader]

Most religions were invented in times when there was little to no understanding of science, hence they attracted believers. Now we know most of those beliefs are false.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Put forward your science. Asked multiple times.

On the basis of what we know, (science) the existence, or the non-existence of an intelligent design cannot be proven or disproven.

That would be a starting point for a fair discussion. 

By observing the interactions and connections of various entities, forces, elements in the observable world, my safe bet is that a supreme consciousness,  some call it God,  exists. 

[Sparktrader]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

On the basis of what we know, (science) the existence, or the non-existence of an intelligent design cannot be proven or disproven.

That would be a starting point for a fair discussion. 

By observing the interactions and connections of various entities, forces, elements in the observable world, my safe bet is that a supreme consciousness,  some call it God,  exists. 

So in summary no science. No real definite god theory. Just rough guess that a god might exist.

 

Different religions different rough guesses.

 

 

[Sunmaster]

@mauGR1....why do you even bother? ????????‍♂️

[Sparktrader]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

@mauGR1....why do you even bother? ????????‍♂️

Yep why put forward your science? Just dodge questions cause 1 you have no science and 2 you cannot even agree on a definite god theory between the 3 of you. Sit down talk about your theory and agree on one theory then we can look at the science of it.

[mauGR1]

Just now, Sparktrader said:

So in summary no science. No real definite god theory. Just rough guess that a god might exist.

 

Different religions different rough guesses.

 

 

If that is your conclusion,  it's ok for me.

I guess it feels great not having doubts whatsoever, but personally I think it's great to have doubts, and keep looking for answers. 

[Sparktrader]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

If that is your conclusion,  it's ok for me.

I guess it feels great not having doubts whatsoever, but personally I think it's great to have doubts, and keep looking for answers. 

Post your answers then.

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

@mauGR1....why do you even bother? ????????‍♂️

555 well, I am happy if this discussion continues, chances are that we can find some gold nuggets among the stones, so to speak. 

Btw, your posts are one of the reasons why I'm still here, so, thanks,  and keep up the good work.

[Sparktrader]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

555 well, I am happy if this discussion continues, chances are that we can find some gold nuggets among the stones, so to speak. 

Btw, your posts are one of the reasons why I'm still here, so, thanks,  and keep up the good work.

Perhaps you could agree then on a definite god theory. Put together 20 points. Post those points and then we can review them.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Post your answers then.

I am trying, apparently without success, but i would be already happy if you could acknowledge the fact that I'm not against science. 

Actually, as far as I'm concerned,  science is evidence of the existence of an Intelligent design. 

[Sparktrader]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

I am trying, apparently without success, but i would be already happy if you could acknowledge the fact that I'm not against science. 

Actually, as far as I'm concerned,  science is evidence of the existence of an Intelligent design. 

So god invented science?

 

Explain

[Sparktrader]

Was jesus the son of god or not???

 

 

[Sparktrader]

Why doesnt god make another son to prove god exists? Would be easy. He could walk on water, turn water into wine etc. Then we can all be nice and do the right thing. Argument resolved.

 

 

[Sunmaster]

PART 3
 

THE EXPERIMENTAL INDUCTION OF RELIGIOUS-TYPE EXPERIENCES

JEAN HOUSTON AND ROBERT E. L. MASTERS

 

As is characteristic of both psychedelic and traditional mystics, the subject accompanied his account with apologies for his feeble effort to describe an essentially ineffable experience.

Some years later, this man still regards the experience just described as having been the most profound and most beautiful of his life. Lacking urgent problems and major personality deficits, he was not changed by his experience in any ways sharply apparent to himself or others. Yet he feels that there were profound, although subtle, changes. On the whole, as is typical of subjects of this kind, he felt that the experience basically confirmed his life-pattern. As he notes, he contained the experience well within what he regards as his atheistic framework. He did not become messianic about drugs, although he has subsequently made such efforts as he could to promote legitimate research and a sober, informed view of LSD in both its social and its scientific contexts. He retains his feeling that “all are one,” and believes himself to be more compassionate than he was previously. He has not sought further LSD experiences.

 

During our years of psychedelic drug research, we observed experiences equally profound, and a great many others ranging down from this qualitative level to experiences superficial and of types such as are presently associated with the faddist mysticism and religion thriving in the current drug subculture. When there was need for it, the profound experiences changed person and behavior in important ways, resolving psychological conflicts in some cases, but in others giving new philosophical concepts and values, improving perception, reawakening affection for a marriage partner or bringing about various other significant, beneficent changes. And these changes seemed much more dependent upon the person’s reaching deep levels of consciousness and having religious-type experiences than they were upon occurrences of the kinds considered therapeutically important within the frame-works of psychoanalytic and most other psychotherapies now in use.

 

For the sick, such experiences tended to be healing; but they also appeared to contribute to the growth and self-realization of the comparatively healthy individual. Moreover, it appeared that psychedelic experience could bring about an enhanced creativity, as we have discussed at some length, with case histories, in our recent book, Psychedelic Art.

Our work with psychedelics was increasingly concerned with growth-and creativity-enhancing experiences, with mapping the phenomenology of the religious-type experiences, and with exploring the nature and functions of eidetic imagery.

 

Then, several years ago, and long before we would have wished to discontinue the research, our work and almost all other work with psychedelics was terminated by legislation intended to cope—but not really coping—with the growing social problem of unsupervised self-experimentation with the drugs. The hysteria generated by psychedelic drugs presumably needs no detailed description. But it is extremely unfortunate that a major victim of that public reaction was the research and almost all therapeutic use as well. Presently, there is no research whatever with normal people, and it has been said that there will be none; and the therapeutic use is confined to just a handful of small, federally controlled projects.

 

 

 

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

So god invented science?

 

Explain

I don't know, but I'm convinced that , should the whole human race being completely wiped off, maths,  geometry,  even music, would still exist. 

Just look how many stars, do you really think it likely  that humans are the only form of intelligence?

Logic tells me that there must be higher and lower forms of intelligence,  as we see on this planet.

if there is a supreme force,  or intelligence, has been discussed for aeons, and it will be discussed for aeons to come.

[Sparktrader]

Modern day Jesus could solve covid, enviro issues, cancer etc. Then we would all believe and be nice.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

Modern day Jesus could solve covid, enviro issues, cancer etc. Then we would all believe and be nice.

Modern day Jesus is being crucified and persecuted on daily basis imho.

I'm just wondering if you don't want or if you just cannot see how history repeats itself.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, VincentRJ said:

The law of 'Conservation of Energy', states that matter and energy cannot be destroyed but only converted from one form to another.
Therefore, my answer to the question: "Why is there something rather than nothing?" is that 'nothing', by definition, cannot exist. Existence is all there is. Non-existence also cannot exist, so why ask the question?

 

The confusion about such issues probably arises because we see or feel only a very small fraction of the matter and energy that surrounds us, and therefore develop a false concept of 'empty space', and imagine that things can exist within an environment of emptiness of space.

 

However, the disciplines of modern science, such as Physics and particularly Quantum Mechanics, are revealing that there is no such thing as 'empty space', and that what appears to be empty is actually an invisible, smeared out cloud of waves and subatomic particles.

 

In any small location, such as a container where you've removed all gases to create a vacuum, there will still be trillions of photons, or waves which are part of the Electromagnetic Spectrum, whizzing through the container every second. You might imagine the container is empty, but it isn't.

 

There are also other invisible forces such as gravitational waves which appear to pervade everywhere, and the possibility of Dark Matter and Dark Energy which, together, are claimed to constitute around 95% of the total matter and energy in the universe.

 

In other words, all the matter and energy that our scientific instruments can detect, including all the atoms, the sub-atomic particles, gravitational waves, and the waves in the electromagnetic spectrum, constitute just 5% of the total amount of matter and energy in the universe, according to current theories which have yet to be validated.

 

Have I answered your questions? ????
 

Well, you said that nothing never exists, and I have no problem with that, because I believe that everything you describe, that we can't see with our eyes, is actually "God".

I don't think God conforms to a human perspective at all, so I have no problem accepting that God is in the 95% that our instruments can not detect.

[Sparktrader]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

Modern day Jesus is being crucified and persecuted on daily basis imho.

I'm just wondering if you don't want or if you just cannot see how history repeats itself.

Nope. He would be praised for solving problems. Plus he can rise from the dead so you cant kill him off.

[Sparktrader]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Well, you said that nothing never exists, and I have no problem with that, because I believe that everything you describe, that we can't see with our eyes, is actually "God".

I don't think God conforms to a human perspective at all, so I have no problem accepting that God is in the 95% that our instruments can not detect.

Ask him for lotto numbers

[Sparktrader]

22 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't know, but I'm convinced that , should the whole human race being completely wiped off, maths,  geometry,  even music, would still exist. 

Just look how many stars, do you really think it likely  that humans are the only form of intelligence?

Logic tells me that there must be higher and lower forms of intelligence,  as we see on this planet.

if there is a supreme force,  or intelligence, has been discussed for aeons, and it will be discussed for aeons to come.

Easy fix. Send down Jesus 2. Make him super intelligent. Proves god exists. He doesn't happen cause god doesn't exist.

[mauGR1]

26 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Easy fix. Send down Jesus 2. Make him super intelligent. Proves god exists. He doesn't happen cause god doesn't exist.

Hiding behind science when you find it convenient,  but showing your hidden nature in the end.????

[Sparktrader]

12 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Hiding behind science when you find it convenient,  but showing your hidden nature in the end.????

Why cant he do it? Obviously Jesus 1 was just some guy. Not the son of god.

 

If "god" can create stars and lions and planets how come he cant send Jesus back?????

 

He created all these amazing things but cant prove it?

 

 

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Why cant he do it? Obviously Jesus 1 was just some guy. Not the son of god.

 

If "god" can create stars and lions and planets how come he cant send Jesus back?????

 

He created all these amazing things but cant prove it?

 

 

All i can say, if you are really interested in finding,  you will find the answers.

 

The definition of Jesus as the "son of God " leaves me a bit perplexed as well, but it's just a definition. One can say all of us are sons of God,  but that would be another partially correct definition. 

History is always partially correct, in fact i agree that in general one should try to investigate the most different points of view to get close to the truth. 

[Sparktrader]

14 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

All i can say, if you are really interested in finding,  you will find the answers.

 

The definition of Jesus as the "son of God " leaves me a bit perplexed as well, but it's just a definition. One can say all of us are sons of God,  but that would be another partially correct definition. 

History is always partially correct, in fact i agree that in general one should try to investigate the most different points of view to get close to the truth. 

So you can't prove it. Despite building stars and planets. Big scale Bitcoin.

[canthai55]

4 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

It seems I wasn't clear enough. It's the 'capacity' (for language and abstract thought) which is unique. Our capacity for language and abstract thought is far greater than that of any other animal. Didn't you know that? ????

If animals can problem solve, and communicate with each other - they have that capacity by definition.

One of many definitions -

the power to learn or retain knowledge; in law, the ability to understand the facts and significance of your behavior

synonyms: mental ability

Far Greater - is nothing but a matter of degree, and until we can decipher what they say, find the meaning, how do you know it is greater ? Answer - you don't.

[canthai55]

Downtown CNX today -

Edited July 29, 2021 by canthai55

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Downtown CNX today -

That photo shows why Thailand is going to have a problem attracting tourists. Look how dirty the gutter is, how filthy the white paint is and the broken pavement.

It used to be OK to be decrepit 20 years ago, but not now.

[Pedrogaz]

Very interesting subject. Whether you believe or not is the biggest question in your life, get it wrong and you might end up in hell for all eternity.

 

When I was a young Catholic about to be confirmed by the bishop, I wanted to be a priest when I grew up and do good in the world, help the poor and sick and win a stigmata, and be canonised. 

 

One year later I didn't believe in God and 54 years later I am still of the same opinion. I cannot say I have any proof either way of God's existence.....the supposed proofs by the church fathers are so full of holes a child could demolish them....as I did. 

 

I don't have any problem with people being religious, but I don't want it shoved down my throat. Religious practice is like masturbation and should be done in private, is my opinion. When I look at all the pure evil in the world ie war, it is all down to greed using religious adherents to murder each other. Not good....scrap all tax benefits for religious organisations and make religion a private affair between you and your maker.

[BananaBandit]

5 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

The law of 'Conservation of Energy', states that matter and energy cannot be destroyed but only converted from one form to another.

So, you are saying scientific law dictates that matter and energy cannot come from nothing. Thus, matter and energy must come from something. Thus, there must be an original Supernatural something.  

 

Do I understand correctly?