Do you believe in God and why

[notmyself]

 

[notmyself]

On 8/16/2019 at 7:15 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Also, no one has proven from what the universe came. This iteration of the universe started with the big bang, but there may have been countless iterations before as universes are born expand, die, contract and enter a black hole, to re emerge as another universe. Soooo, when did it all start, and from where did the matter that makes the universe originate?

 

To some, the universe was created from nothing, expands till all the sun's fuel runs out and then there is a great void full of dead stars for ever after, and we, with all our dreams and hopes and fears are nothing more than particles of dust on dead planets for ever and ever and ever.

That's not something I want to believe.

 

How do you know matter was/is required?

 

To some, the universe was created from nothing, expands till all the sun's fuel runs out and then there is a great void full of dead stars for ever after, and we, with all our dreams and hopes and fears are nothing more than particles of dust on dead planets for ever and ever and ever.

That's not something I want to believe.

 

As mentioned before, my interest in religion et al. is with regard to the psychological aspect of wish fulfilment. Not wanting to believe something or 'x' …. is exactly it.

 

Mostly it's not so much fear of death but rather fear of nothingness and/or insignificance.

 

Further to for ever and ever and ever....

 

In particle physics, proton decay is a hypothetical form of particle decay in which the proton decays into lighter subatomic particles, such as a neutral pion and a positron. The proton decay hypothesis was first formulated by Andrei Sakharov in 1967. Despite significant experimental effort, proton decay has never been observed. If it does decay via a positron, the proton's half-life is constrained to be at least 1.67×10³⁴ years.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 11:45 AM, notmyself said:

How do you know matter was/is required?

??????????????????

Required for what, exactly?

 

The universe is composed of matter, so from where did it come? If we knew that, we'd know what "God" is.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 12:05 AM, mauGR1 said:

You say nothing !

If not for kingdoms and cults, we would still dwelling in caves, hunting and gathering for survival.

Sure, civilisation comes at a price, but I don't know anyone who would like to be back to tribal life.

In short, it's not a good idea to throw away the baby with the dirty water imho.

 

Interesting. It is a fact that everything ends, one way or another.

Does civilization end because we pollute ourselves to death, or because we evolve beyond the need for such imperfect organisations, as many science fiction writers envisage. Ie Childhood's End?

While civilization may provide a better life than tribalism, it has brought us overpopulation, corruption, religion and death on an industrial scale. Seems that the only people to truly benefit from civilization are rich/ powerful people.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 8:13 PM, ThaiBunny said:

Reading fiction requires "the willing suspension of disbelief"; I suspect religious belief has the same need

Agreed about "religious". However faith is based on "knowing", in the same way as we "know" someone loves us. Love is a feeling, not a thing, and is an individual emotion.

I do not equate faith with religion. Two vastly different things, IMO.

[notmyself]

So with some historically recognised 6000+ gods, how would one know which of them is more likely?

[notmyself]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

??????????????????

Required for what, exactly?

 

The universe is composed of matter, so from where did it come? If we knew that, we'd know what "God" is.

 

I have lived with god for 2 years. It's from a movie and remind me if I forget to mention it later. Please.

 

You said matter was needed in some form and asked where it came from. I'm asking what data suggests that matter is required? Seems like a big call to me. Also, if we did somehow find out that matter was required it would add nothing to the god claim. You seem to me to have indicated that anything unknown is filed in a set called god. I personally tend to use the unknown set. 

 

Ah

 

Sunshine, was the movie. I was going to post a clip but it ruin the movie should you wish to watch it. My opinion of it is that the  base story is absurd but the dialogue, acting and effects are very good. 

 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0448134/

 

[edit] Calling Colin, Dave, isn't working out so well.

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by notmyself

[notmyself]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Interesting. It is a fact that everything ends, one way or another.

 

No, never has it been shown that everything ends.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, notmyself said:

So with some historically recognised 6000+ gods, how would one know which of them is more likely?

All of which were invented by the men in funny hats to get wealth and power.

Next.

[thaibeachlovers]

49 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

No, never has it been shown that everything ends.

555555555555555

We end when we die, the universe ends when all the stars run out of fuel. Seems pretty "end" to me.

[thaibeachlovers]

57 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

I have lived with god for 2 years. It's from a movie and remind me if I forget to mention it later. Please.

 

You said matter was needed in some form and asked where it came from. I'm asking what data suggests that matter is required? Seems like a big call to me. Also, if we did somehow find out that matter was required it would add nothing to the god claim. You seem to me to have indicated that anything unknown is filed in a set called god. I personally tend to use the unknown set. 

 

Ah

 

Sunshine, was the movie. I was going to post a clip but it ruin the movie should you wish to watch it. My opinion of it is that the  base story is absurd but the dialogue, acting and effects are very good. 

 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0448134/

 

[edit] Calling Colin, Dave, isn't working out so well.

 

 

 

Ah, Danny Boyle film- the man that ruined The Beach. Interesting movie, but a bit far fetched.

Even insane people can believe in God. The thing about "God" is that no one is excluded, unless they choose to be.

I saw the most wondrous sunset last night, and I thanked the maker for such beauty. Doesn't mean that I'm going to march off and kill people in the name of any particular "god". 

Faith, not religion.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, notmyself said:

You said matter was needed in some form and asked where it came from. I'm asking what data suggests that matter is required? Seems like a big call to me.

I'm confused. You are obviously composed of matter, so what are you suggesting if matter didn't exist? 

Perhaps you could provide a suggestion of how we are communicating without the existence of matter?

Does any other poster agree that matter does not matter ( pun intended )?

[mauGR1]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Interesting. It is a fact that everything ends, one way or another.

Does civilization end because we pollute ourselves to death, or because we evolve beyond the need for such imperfect organisations, as many science fiction writers envisage. Ie Childhood's End?

While civilization may provide a better life than tribalism, it has brought us overpopulation, corruption, religion and death on an industrial scale. Seems that the only people to truly benefit from civilization are rich/ powerful people.

While it's true that things which have a beginning come to an end, I believe that life, broadly talking, is eternal.

Overpopulation, paradoxically, is a sign of favourable conditions, and evil is simply the other side of good.

I think a very large portion of humankind is benefitting from civilisation, which, with all the pros and cons, aims undoubtedly to a higher state of consciousness. 

Nothing to worry, imho, we live in the best of possible worlds.

[thaibeachlovers]

54 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I think a very large portion of humankind is benefitting from civilisation

People living in Idlib or the Congo would disagree with you.

We live wonderful privileged lives in the west compared to most of humanity, and we waste it on BS, for the most part- reality tv, anyone?

[mauGR1]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

People living in Idlib or the Congo would disagree with you.

We live wonderful privileged lives in the west compared to most of humanity, and we waste it on BS, for the most part- reality tv, anyone?

S**t happens, that is a fact, it can happen to me and you and anyone at any moment, but let's not forget to look at the stars, and take care of the garden, at least that's what I'm trying to do.

[frantick]

On 8/16/2019 at 12:57 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I would think that the universe, life and everything is a manifestation of God, and I really don't think he/she/it is happy about the way humans have destroyed his/her/it's planet. Retribution may be coming.

I'm pretty sure he/she doesn't care:

1 John 2:15-17 ESV / 955 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

Colossians 3:2 ESV / 501 helpful votes 

Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.

[Elad]

16 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm confused. You are obviously composed of matter, so what are you suggesting if matter didn't exist? 

 

Shortly after the big bang almost equal amounts of subatomic  particles and their anti particles were produced. The matter and antimatter particles were annihilated into radiation, but luckily for us there was slightly more matter than antimatter. For every 1 billion antimatter particles there was a billion +1 matter particles, and the left over is what we see today in the universe, stars, planets, life etc.. 

 

If equal amounts had been produced then the universe would be composed of radiation, with no galaxies, stars or planets, there wouldn't be any structure. 

 

Had there been slightly more antimatter, then me and you and everything we see would be made of antimatter, but we would just call it matter and we'd call the normal matter 'antimatter.

[notmyself]

18 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ah, Danny Boyle film- the man that ruined The Beach. Interesting movie, but a bit far fetched.

Even insane people can believe in God. The thing about "God" is that no one is excluded, unless they choose to be.

I saw the most wondrous sunset last night, and I thanked the maker for such beauty. Doesn't mean that I'm going to march off and kill people in the name of any particular "god". 

Faith, not religion.

 

Yep. lol

 

Why would a perfectly splendid looking garden need/have to have fairies at the end or bottom of it? 

 

 

 

[notmyself]

18 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm confused. You are obviously composed of matter, so what are you suggesting if matter didn't exist? 

Perhaps you could provide a suggestion of how we are communicating without the existence of matter?

Does any other poster agree that matter does not matter ( pun intended )?

 

 

Soooo, when did it all start, and from where did the matter that makes the universe originate?

 

Where are getting needed origin from? 

[muffy]

no

[cobra]

... I can swear there ain't no Heaven,

and I pray there ain't no Hell,

But I won't know by living,

only my dying will tell, ....

 

And When I Die, (Blood, Sweat and Tears), 

Edited August 19, 2019 by cobra

[Damrongsak]

3 hours ago, Elad said:

Shortly after the big bang almost equal amounts of subatomic  particles and their anti particles were produced. ...

 

Sort of like me and my 3 siblings. I 'm the only one whose nickname is "<deleted>".

[FarFlungFalang]

On 8/16/2019 at 7:38 PM, Skeptic7 said:

Now if someone wants to claim god is The Sun or The Universe or Something Greater Than Us or other Woo...no problem. HOWEVER, when those types of claims are made on a public forum, such as this, then those claims have voluntarily been made fair game. 

 

In answer to your query...I don't have a personal definition of "god", which would be irrelevant anyway. The word itself is irrelevant IMO. For purposes of discussion, when the word becomes necessary to use, I tend to go with standard and long established and accepted dictionary definitions. 

 

Sorry for any misunderstanding or confusion. Hope this clears it up a bit. And please don't tell me how to present my points. That is not your place. 

Yeah cool my bad for coming across a bit to aggressively or to used my own phrase descending into a rant at the end so yeah all cleared up.

 So you also get your definition from the dictionary  which is where I got mine,there are also several different meanings in each dictionary and the definitions do vary between different dictionaries so I would dispute is a long established and accepted dictionary definitions as there are more than one and if there are more than one which one is yours?.Since there is a definition of God in the dictionary does that not mean that God exist?If something doesn't exist then how can there be a definition of it?Or any knowledge of it?

 I believe my claim that god can be defined as mean the same thing as the universe is valid.Do you have any arguments to prove this theory incorrect?

 "Supreme Being"is generally an excepted standard dictionary definition now lets take the standard dictionary definition of "supreme" and "being"

 

su·preme

/so͞oˈprēm/

Learn to pronounce

adjective

 

1. 1. 

   (of authority or an office, or someone holding it) superior to all others.

   "a unified force with a supreme commander"

    

    

   synonyms:

   highest ranking, highest, leading, chief, head, top, foremost, principal, superior, premier, first, cardinal, prime, sovereign;  directing, governing;  greatest, dominant, predominant, preeminent, overriding, prevailing     be·ing /ˈbēiNG/ Learn to pronounce noun   1.  existence. "the railroad brought many towns into being" synonyms: existence, living, life, animation, animateness, aliveness, reality, actuality, essential nature, lifeblood, vital force, entity;  esse "she finds herself warmed by his very being"

    

   "Superior to all others" "existence". Supreme existence.This implies more than one existence it also implies that one existence can be superior and it also implies the the most superior existence is "God"

   Is this the standard dictionary definition you use?if not then maybe you could clarify for me because I seem to have trouble finding the standard dictionary definition and must resort to guessing which is not my favourite way to conduct an argument. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by FarFlungFalang
Correction

[FarFlungFalang]

23 hours ago, notmyself said:

So with some historically recognised 6000+ gods, how would one know which of them is more likely?

I think one would have to know all 6000+ gods intimately to know which of them is more likely.You might also have a god of a particular thing or might have a god of everything or the god of "more likely" in which case the god of "more likely" will be the god you're looking for!

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

I think one would have to know all 6000+ gods intimately to know which of them is more likely.You might also have a god of a particular thing or might have a god of everything or the god of "more likely" in which case the god of "more likely" will be the god you're looking for!

There aren't 6000+ gods, but 6000+ interpretations of what God may be. More likely there are as many interpretations of what God is (or isn't) as there are people living.

[Jean Marie]

God is my conscience, my analysis of what’s good and bad and the consequences of my actions. It has no gender. In contrast, religion (whichever one) is the exploitation of man’s superstition by ... man (notice, no women involved in this business). Somewhere I read thad God was the Verb. When put into writing .. by men, it became Law with all its injustices and the consequences we are daily reminded of.. Alleluia 

[notmyself]

On 8/20/2019 at 6:09 AM, Sunmaster said:

There aren't 6000+ gods, but 6000+ interpretations of what God may be. More likely there are as many interpretations of what God is (or isn't) as there are people living.

 

As many people who are alive or who have ever lived on the assumption they have asked the question. 

 

 

[notmyself]

On 8/20/2019 at 2:38 AM, FarFlungFalang said:

I think one would have to know all 6000+ gods intimately to know which of them is more likely.You might also have a god of a particular thing or might have a god of everything or the god of "more likely" in which case the god of "more likely" will be the god you're looking for!

 

Yep. Totally subjective. Is a good required would be the next question. The answers are generally laughable with fine tuning being the most absurd unless the claimant has knowledge of other universes. 

 

 

[Sunmaster]

13 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

Yep. Totally subjective. Is a good God required would be the next question. The answers are generally laughable with fine tuning being the most absurd unless the claimant has knowledge of other universes. 

 

 

(Corrected to avoid misunderstandings)
 

A very good question I think. Is a God required....in our lives?

No, because one can lead a perfectly healthy and moral life, without ever having to think about a supreme being or supernatural force. A person doesn't need to believe in any god to be able to distinguish right from wrong. 

Yes, because regardless if such a being exists or not, the mere idea of it can give solace and hope, direction and guidance in moments of need. 

So, considering that after 200.000 years (since homo sapiens) we're still debating if God exists or not and no definite answer has been found yet that can satisfy one side or the other, I doubt we will come to a satisfactory conclusion here anytime soon.

I for one, am glad to have discovered this depth within me. I don't call it God and I don't follow any religion, but whoever and/or whatever it is, it has made my life much richer and redirected my focus on the truly important things in life. This focus has taken away a lot of stress and uncertainty about the future, which subsequently has positively influenced all my decisions and relationships.

 

I could ask: Can you live with only one arm?
Sure you can, but having 2 arms makes life so much easier.

 

[Mel52]

Wow this topic has been going on for months now. But yeah I definitely believe in God. Very much so! I was raised Lutheran but I don’t necessarily identify with any specific religion because religion too often divides us all. But I MOST CERTAINLY DO BELIEVE IN GOD! And when you’ve seen some of the things that I’ve seen in life (LOTS OF THINGS), it kind of makes you know for sure that God does exist. But people can believe whatever they want although I can’t help but feel sorry for anyone who doesn’t believe in God. I especially feel sorry for Atheists that’s a really pessimistic view on life.