Do you believe in God and why

[VincentRJ]

40 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Finally, here is something I just found while browsing for pictures. It's about a scientist who found answers in spiritual practice. A scientist who believes in spiritual stuff?!? Heresy!!! 555
https://upliftconnect.com/a-scientists-spiritual-awakening/

That's an excellent and inspiring article. Thanks. There's a lot of profound wisdom in the fundamental principles of Buddhism. However, the religion of Buddhism, as practiced by most lay people who claim to be Buddhists, is something else.

 

Gautama Buddha did not create the religion of Buddhism. That came later, with all the exaggerations and mumbo jumbo nonsense which was created to appeal to the masses, a bit like the current 'climate change' alarmism. ????

[AYJAYDEE]

In a Creator? Nope! I gods as other types of sentient beings?  Possible. I don't disbelieve at least. Relevance to my existence? None!

[Elad]

11 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun.  Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees.  If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze.  Any closer and we would burn up.  Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph.  It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

The habitable zone is the zone where liquid water can exist at the surface of the planet. That zone is thought to range from close to the orbit of Venus to near the orbit of Mars, it's quite big. Moving Earth a few million km either way would make little difference. In fact, due to its eccentric orbit, in January the Earth orbits 5 million km closer to the sun than it does in July.

 

Although all life as we know it needs liquid water, it doesn't all need sunlight. There's ecosystems around hydrothermal vents (black smokers) at the bottom of the deepest oceans where sunlight is non-existent, the pressure is over 200 atmospheres, and the temperature of the water can be over 400 C. You wouldn't think any life could exist in those conditions, but it does and it thrives. 

From Wiki:

Although life is very sparse at these depths, black smokers are the centers of entire ecosystems. Sunlight is nonexistent, so many organisms – such as archaea and extremophiles – convert the heat, methane, and sulfur compounds provided by black smokers into energy through a process called chemosynthesis. More complex life forms, such as clams and tubeworms, feed on these organisms. The organisms at the base of the food chain also deposit minerals into the base of the black smoker, therefore completing the life cycle.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent#Biological_communities

[ThaiBunny]

10 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Finally, here is something I just found while browsing for pictures. It's about a scientist who found answers in spiritual practice. 

Yes - spiritual practice focusing inwards, not religious practice focusing outwards

[FarFlungFalang]

6 hours ago, AYJAYDEE said:

In a Creator? Nope! I gods as other types of sentient beings?  Possible. I don't disbelieve at least. Relevance to my existence? None!

Are you not the creator of your post therefore can be called "a creator"?Doesn't science say the earth was created?Would that not suggest that the events or forces that contributed to the creation of Earth could be labeled the "creator" of Earth?If something is created it seems to me there must be a creator,wether the creator is a series of events,forces (gravity) or a person it is still the creator of the creation.When you say "a creator" are you meaning "the creator" as in God or are you saying that you don't believe anything can be created and therefore don't believe that something can be "a creator"?

[ThaiBunny]

3 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Are you not the creator of your post therefore can be called "a creator"?Doesn't science say the earth was created?Would that not suggest that the events or forces that contributed to the creation of Earth could be labeled the "creator" of Earth?If something is created it seems to me there must be a creator,wether the creator is a series of events,forces (gravity) or a person it is still the creator of the creation.When you say "a creator" are you meaning "the creator" as in God or are you saying that you don't believe anything can be created and therefore don't believe that something can be "a creator"?

I summarised his post as "Don't know, don't care". The title of this thread implies that it's for those who do care to explain why

[FarFlungFalang]

15 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

The third post about the "Positive God-interpretation" is dedicated to literature.

This is a subjective list and doesn't want to be a "Top 10 Spiritual Best Sellers". Certain books find their way to us just at the right time and anchor themselves in our hearts. Sometimes they seed an idea that blossoms up years later. Some of them need to be read several times and each time we discover something new. Some books teach us more than 1000 sermons. Some books answer questions, others raise many more.

 

These books are the closest to my heart.

 

This book is truly amazing. The love Yogananda feels for God can be felt in every sentence and makes this book an all time classic when it comes to spiritual literature. My number 1.

 

I really like this book. It's a novel set in the future, were a group of people play a game wherein one must be able to build a philosophy that includes every human discipline. A first step to an integral philosophy.

An old book, but with timeless pearls of wisdom.

 

All books by Ken Wilber. A modern day philosopher and transpersonal psychologist. The developer of the Integral Theory: Integral theory is Ken Wilber's attempt to place a wide diversity of theories and thinkers into one single framework. It is portrayed as a "theory of everything", trying "to draw together an already existing number of separate paradigms into an interrelated network of approaches that are mutually enriching.
Not an easy read, but very very interesting.

 

Don Edward Beck is a teacher, geopolitical advisor, and theorist focusing on applications of large scale psychology, including social psychology, evolutionary psychology, organizational psychology and their effect on human sociocultural systems. 

 

 A leading spiritual and philosophical thinker. A captivating read.

 

Simple and to the point.

 

Finally, here is something I just found while browsing for pictures. It's about a scientist who found answers in spiritual practice. A scientist who believes in spiritual stuff?!? Heresy!!! 555
https://upliftconnect.com/a-scientists-spiritual-awakening/

Yes interesting read and thanks for the Krishnamurti recommendation I find it easy to relate to his way of thinking from what I've read so far.

[Sunmaster]

The fourth post about the "Positive God-interpretation" is dedicated to films and documentaries.

There are some powerful visual documentaries and movies full of deeper meanings out there. Here is a short list of my favourite ones. Unfortunately, being somewhat "alternative", many others are not easily accessible.

Anyway....here we go!

To start with, here is a little know French movie called "Blueberry" (aka Renegade) with Vincent Cassel, playing a cowboy. The film is entertaining and normally wouldn't make it to this list, were it not for one scene where he takes ayahuasca with a shaman. This scene is probably the best depiction of a psychedelic trip I have ever seen. The director surely knew what he was doing.

 

Cloud Atlas
This is a big Hollywood movie, but very well made and shows the interconnectedness of all things, even beyond time. 
 

 

The Man from Earth
A low budget film, but very thought provoking. "What if a man from the upper paleolithic survived until the present day?"
 

 

The Fountain

A slow paced and visually stunning film, a feast for the senses and imagination.
 

 

Interstellar
I love science fiction and this one is one of the best imo. It shows a universe that is not just a cold, soulless machine. Intense and a must see!

 

Inception
Another famous Hollywood film. Explores the realities in our dreams, and dreams within dreams, and dreams within dream within dreams... Mind-bending

Last entry...a documentary in 4 parts (all available on youtube or on their website https://awakentheworld.com/innerworldsmovie/)

Inner Worlds, Outer Worlds

If you have even an ounce of curiosity about life and have a minimum of open mindedness, you'll enjoy this for sure. This has the potential of bringing together the extremes in this thread. I can't recommend it enough!

Here is the first part:

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 11:07 AM, FarFlungFalang said:

He is here because he is skeptical and is asking questions which is absolutely the right thing to do.I too am skeptical I ask myself questions but it is good to get different questions if the questions cannot be satisfactorily answered then doubts must arise.If ones argument can withstand the questions and can be successfully addressed then it increases in strength.

IMO he isn't asking questions to elicit an answer, he just wants to rubbish anyone that has faith. Also, he hasn't raised anything that proves there is no God, so his disbelief is based on no more than "faith" that there isn't a God.

 

[ThaiBunny]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO he isn't asking questions to elicit an answer, he just wants to rubbish anyone that has faith. Also, he hasn't raised anything that proves there is no God, so his disbelief is based on no more than "faith" that there isn't a God.

You're mistaking scepticism for faith. They are opposites

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 1:29 PM, ThaiBunny said:

Why do you need anything to believe in? What's the point?

Everyone has to believe in something- that a genetic program. If we don't believe in something, why live at all? 

It doesn't have to be a belief in God, or a belief in no God, it can be a belief that we will find "true" love ( which IMO is as false as any belief ever was ), or just that the sun will rise every day.

There are people with no belief/ no hope, and they often end up killing themselves.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

You're mistaking scepticism for faith. They are opposites

I disagree. IMO atheism is just the opposite side of the coin of faith. Both belief and disbelief are grounded in faith that one's belief is the right one.

It's impossible for a human to prove that God exists, ergo it's impossible to prove that God does not exist.

The human brain is incapable of understanding God, so it's really a waste of time jumping up and down and demanding that everyone else accepts what one believes.

None of us has the power to deduce God, as we are just specks of dust on an insignificant planet in an insignificant galaxy in an infinite universe.

[Skeptic7]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

we are just specks of dust on an insignificant planet in an insignificant galaxy in an infinite universe.

Finally something which makes sense and on which we agree. Of course the nonsense preceding had to be cut out! ????

[sirineou]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I disagree. IMO atheism is just the opposite side of the coin of faith. Both belief and disbelief are grounded in faith that one's belief is the right one.

First this sentence does not make much sense. "Both belief and disbelief are grounded in faith that one's belief is the right one. "  so both belief and disbelief are both beliefs? 

Atheism is as much a belief as abstinence is a sexual position.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

First this sentence does not make much sense. "Both belief and disbelief are grounded in faith that one's belief is the right one. "  so both belief and disbelief are both beliefs? 

Atheism is as much a belief as abstinence is a sexual position.

Well both include the word "belief".

Given that it is impossible for a human to even comprehend the "mind" of God, and it is impossible for a human to prove or disprove that God exists, all that is left is faith in one's position- the ying and yang of belief.

Given that there is no proof that god does not exist ( just as there is no proof that God exists ), atheism is a belief that God does not exist.

That's my belief, and I'm sticking to it.

 

BTW, I would consider that abstinence is a sexual decision, though not a "position", LOL. I hope I don't have to explain that.

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that there is no proof that god does not exist

Impossible to prove a negative, 

Can you provide proof  that leprechauns don't exist. all you can do is provide evidence.

Atheists are not convinced by the evidence the theists provide to support their extraordinary claim. If one wants to convince me of the existence of Yahweh provide me with convincing evidence, until such time I remain unconvinced and an Atheist . 

[Skeptic7]

45 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Atheism is as much a belief as abstinence is a sexual position.

Or bald is a hair color! ????

[ThaiBunny]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I disagree. IMO atheism is just the opposite side of the coin of faith. Both belief and disbelief are grounded in faith that one's belief is the right one.

It's impossible for a human to prove that God exists, ergo it's impossible to prove that God does not exist.

The human brain is incapable of understanding God, so it's really a waste of time jumping up and down and demanding that everyone else accepts what one believes.

None of us has the power to deduce God, as we are just specks of dust on an insignificant planet in an insignificant galaxy in an infinite universe.

Atheism is NOT scepticism. Atheism asserts there is no God. Scepticism says "Unlikely, on the balance of probabilities". As the French mathematical physicist Laplace remarked to the Emperor Napoleon when asked about the existence of God, "I have no need of that hypothesis"

 

In Scottish criminal courts there are three possible verdicts - Guilty, Not Guilty, Not Proven. The third verdict represents scepticism

[CMNightRider]

Many atheists and skeptics argue that there just is not enough (or any) evidence for the existence of God.  Christopher Hitchens (R.I.P.), a well-known atheist, has said, “[E]xceptional claims demand exceptional evidence” and “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”  It is clear that atheists deny that there is evidence for the reality of God.

What does the Bible say about this?  The Bible teaches that everyone in the world receives the knowledge that God exists.  There should be no doubt, for those of us who take the Bible to be God’s Word, that God made it unavoidable that everyone know of His existence.  

God reveals Himself through nature

The Bible tells us that, “The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork” (Psalm 19:1 ESV). Simply by taking the time to closely scrutinize the natural world around us, we can see the handiwork that points to an incredibly intelligent source. One would have to be willfully ignorant to attribute all the intricacies found in nature to random chance. Nevertheless, because so many generations have been indoctrinated into the false religion of ‘evolution’, it is a common occurrence for men and women to completely miss what should be wondrous and awe-inspiring beauty, and to attribute all of creation to mindless and impersonal physical forces.

 

The apostle Paul writes that an attitude of denial is not normal, “For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse” (Romans 1:19-20 ESV). God’s self-revelation, visible in what He has made, makes ones rejection of Him inexcusable. A close look at nature reveals an intricate level of design that points undeniably to a Designer.  Nevertheless, some still live in denial.

 

[ThaiBunny]

46 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Nevertheless, some still live in denial.

My own guess is that every "spiritual" experience we have is a byproduct of the human microbiome and its interaction with its environment - think LSD and magic mushrooms

[mauGR1]

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO he isn't asking questions to elicit an answer, he just wants to rubbish anyone that has faith. Also, he hasn't raised anything that proves there is no God, so his disbelief is based on no more than "faith" that there isn't a God.

 

Yep, one may add that to put all the faith in what is called official science is rather inconsiderate.

[mauGR1]

On 9/11/2019 at 6:43 PM, Sunmaster said:

The third post about the "Positive God-interpretation" is dedicated to literature.

This is a subjective list and doesn't want to be a "Top 10 Spiritual Best Sellers". Certain books find their way to us just at the right time and anchor themselves in our hearts. Sometimes they seed an idea that blossoms up years later. Some of them need to be read several times and each time we discover something new. Some books teach us more than 1000 sermons. Some books answer questions, others raise many more.

 

These books are the closest to my heart.

 

This book is truly amazing. The love Yogananda feels for God can be felt in every sentence and makes this book an all time classic when it comes to spiritual literature. My number 1.

 

I really like this book. It's a novel set in the future, were a group of people play a game wherein one must be able to build a philosophy that includes every human discipline. A first step to an integral philosophy.

An old book, but with timeless pearls of wisdom.

 

All books by Ken Wilber. A modern day philosopher and transpersonal psychologist. The developer of the Integral Theory: Integral theory is Ken Wilber's attempt to place a wide diversity of theories and thinkers into one single framework. It is portrayed as a "theory of everything", trying "to draw together an already existing number of separate paradigms into an interrelated network of approaches that are mutually enriching.
Not an easy read, but very very interesting.

 

Don Edward Beck is a teacher, geopolitical advisor, and theorist focusing on applications of large scale psychology, including social psychology, evolutionary psychology, organizational psychology and their effect on human sociocultural systems. 

 

 A leading spiritual and philosophical thinker. A captivating read.

 

Simple and to the point.

 

Finally, here is something I just found while browsing for pictures. It's about a scientist who found answers in spiritual practice. A scientist who believes in spiritual stuff?!? Heresy!!! 555
https://upliftconnect.com/a-scientists-spiritual-awakening/

Thanks again 'Sunmaster' and having recently re-read the autobiography of Yogananda, i can say that it's definitely much, much more than a book.

Couple of years ago i thought i had to choose a specific spiritual path, because reading too many different theories and explanations can be interesting but a bit confusing, still i agree very much with your selection.

As the old wise Ramakrishna used to say, there are many paths to climb the top of a mountain, the choice is yours.

[sirineou]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that it is impossible for a human to even comprehend the "mind" of God, and it is impossible for a human to prove or disprove that God exists, all that is left is faith in one's position- the ying and yang of belief.

And yet humans not only act ,but kill others one on their comprehension of what God wants of them.

Wouldn't it be funny if "if "God" wanted them to be Atheists?

 

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, sirineou said:

And yet humans not only act ,but kill others one on their comprehension of what God wants of them.

Wouldn't it be funny if "if "God" wanted them to be Atheists?

 

In fact, Lord Buddha was against the fanaticism of certain religious types; the problem is that, religion or not, we have to deal anyway, in this world, with a certain amount of crazy individuals.

 

[sirineou]

23 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

In fact, Lord Buddha was against the fanaticism of certain religious types; the problem is that, religion or not, we have to deal anyway, in this world, with a certain amount of crazy individuals.

 

I don't remember where in my readings  , perhaps you point me out to the sourse, but I remember reading the following story the Lord Buddha told to one of his disciples  when asked about God.

He told of the story of the traveler who was attacked by thieves and mortally wounded was left on the side of the road to die. His cries of help was heard by an other traveler who approached the wounded man. 

-I am hurt and dying said the wounded man, please help me. 

-Who did this to you asked the good samaritan, 

-some thieves, please help 

-what did they wear asmed the good samaritan

-could not see it was dark. Please help

-do you know their names , asked the good samaritan 

at which time the wounded man died.

 

The moral of the story, after we heal the wounds that cause our suffering we can talk about their source. 

 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I don't remember where in my readings  , perhaps you point me out to the sourse, but I remember reading the following story the Lord Buddha told to one of his disciples  when asked about God.

He told of the story of the traveler who was attacked by thieves and mortally wounded was left on the side of the road to die. His cries of help was heard by an other traveler who approached the wounded man. 

-I am hurt and dying said the wounded man, please help me. 

-Who did this to you asked the good samaritan, 

-some thieves, please help 

-what did they wear asmed the good samaritan

-could not see it was dark. Please help

-do you know their names , asked the good samaritan 

at which time the wounded man died.

 

The moral of the story, after we heal the wounds that cause our suffering we can talk about their source. 

 

Honestly, that's the first time i hear this story, but although one may superficially agree with the moral of the story, i think it's most important to understand the source of the suffering.

According to Lord Buddha, pls correct me if i'm wrong, the most powerful source of suffering is attachment, and i find myself in full agreement.

[ThaiBunny]

11 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

According to Lord Buddha, pls correct me if i'm wrong, the most powerful source of suffering is attachment, and i find myself in full agreement.

Including attachment to the notion of proving/disproving the existence of God

[CMNightRider]

The Bible teaches there is a God and only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 44:6; 1 Corinthians 8:6). Buddhism’s teaching about God is contradictory and unclear. In Buddhism it is possible to believe in many gods or no gods at all.

The Bible claims to be God’s Word. Therefore, it is our guide in life for it reveals all spiritual truth (Psalm 119:105; John 14:26; 16:13; 2 Peter 1:3). Buddhism claims the teachings of Gautama, along with one’s own feelings, are the guide in this life (Proverbs 14:12; Jeremiah 10:23).

 

The Bible proclaims Jesus to be the Christ, the Son of the living God (Romans 1:4; John 20:30-31). The Bible also tells us that Jesus arose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:3-8). Buddhism denies the claims of the Bible. Buddhists teach that Jesus did not arise from the dead. Therefore, Buddhists deny that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God. Both Buddhism and Christianity cannot be true. One must be right and the other wrong; both cannot be true!

 

The Bible reveals God’s plan to save mankind through His church (Ephesians 3:8-11; Matthew 16:18; Acts 20:28; Ephesians 1:22-23; 5:23). Buddhists deny this is the path of salvation. According to Siddhartha, a person must follow “the eight fold path” to Nirvana. Since this is contradictory to the Bible, we know it is not right!

 

The Bible teaches that each one of us has a soul. Our souls are eternal. They will be judged by the Word of God at the last day (Matthew 10:28; 1 Corinthians 15:45; Romans 2:16; 2 Corinthians 5:10). Buddhism, however, teaches that one’s soul is involved in a constant wheel of rebirth. It continues until one reaches “Nirvana.” The Bible teaches that once we die, we await the Judgment (Hebrews 9:27).

 

The only hope for this world is Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:12; John 14:6; 1 Thessalonians 1:9). May God help each one of us to use every opportunity we have to teach the Gospel of Christ to those who practice Buddhism and give Buddhists the opportunity to turn to the true God and find eternal life in His Son, Jesus Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9; Romans 1:16).

 

[Sunmaster]

I would much rather trust a guy who's been meditating his whole life in a cave, than a guy who knows the bible by heart. Even better, I rather trust my own experience through meditation and the practice of awareness. 
Have you got anything else to show for than this endless stream of bible citations? Anything that comes from you directly?

[ThaiBunny]

21 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I would much rather trust a guy who's been meditating his whole life in a cave, than a guy who knows the bible by heart.

I'd have thought the early monks and the Stylites may well combine the two