Vitara .....THIRD water leak....all different

[cheeryble]

9 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

 

I concur. A small plastic tube of brown powder. Available at all automotive parts stores and

maybe even a big Tesco or Big C. About 80 Baht

 

If in BKK there is a place on Lasalle-Bearing called Vitara world.

 

 

Now this is worth thinking about.

The US version is silvery coloured and costs about $35-40. I believe I've heard it has tiny fibres in it and tiny metallic flakes.

The one above is a brown powder, and may be unimproved from the brownish gunk we bought in a small bottle back in the days we owned Morris Minors.

They might be no better than each other or one may indeed be better. 

Given the time hassle and money saved if it works one wants to use the best product regardless of cost.

Any comments?

[cheeryble]

9 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

 

I concur. A small plastic tube of brown powder. Available at all automotive parts stores and

maybe even a big Tesco or Big C. About 80 Baht

 

If in BKK there is a place on Lasalle-Bearing called Vitara world.

 

 

Now this is worth thinking about.

The US version is silvery coloured and costs about $35-40. I believe I've heard it has tiny fibres in it and tiny metallic flakes.

The one above is a brown powder, and may be unimproved from the brownish gunk we bought in a small bottle back in the days we owned Morris Minors.

They might be no better than each other or one may indeed be better. 

Given the time hassle and money saved if it works one wants to use the best product regardless of cost.

Any comments?

[PJPom]

I have used the powder in Australia and it worked, one thing to note is pour it in slowly with the engine running otherwise it can block the radiator core.

I once had a car struggle into the Garage I helped in, squirting water and steam, the owner said he put two lots of the powder in last night but as it was late he didn't bother to run the engine for more than a few minutes. We found the radiator core was totally blocked  when we removed the header tank, most effective stop leak I have ever seen, also stopped all water circulation, blew a hose and caused a core plug to weep. We ended up taking the head off and found traces of a tiny weep which would probably have sealed but due to his actions it cost him gaskets, radiator repair, head skim, new hoses all round and a lot of swearing replacing the core plug on a transverse engine

Try the powder, I want to see if we are right, good luck and make sure you let us know.

Edited May 9, 2019 by PJPom
correction

[tifino]

regarding the Powder in Aust. is it that Alumaseal? as above

[PJPom]

Cannot honestly remember but packaging looked like a 12 bore cartridge, will check tomorrow with friend in Australia.

The texture was fibrous powder that really needed patience to get it into the radiator, if you poured too quickly it clumped . Cost in Australia was I think about $15-20, I actually used it in my own Nissan Maxima when I noticed it using a bit of water with no obvious leaks , that was 2011, no water loss since.

For Tifino in Australia, try Repco or Supercheap, both of them are good for items like this, Repco tend to be a bit more knowledgeable.

Edited May 9, 2019 by PJPom
extra info

[cheeryble]

I have used the powder in Australia and it worked, one thing to note is pour it in slowly with the engine running otherwise it can block the radiator core.
I once had a car struggle into the Garage I helped in, squirting water and steam, the owner said he put two lots of the powder in last night but as it was late he didn't bother to run the engine for more than a few minutes. We found the radiator core was totally blocked  when we removed the header tank, most effective stop leak I have ever seen, also stopped all water circulation, blew a hose and caused a core plug to weep. We ended up taking the head off and found traces of a tiny weep which would probably have sealed but due to his actions it cost him gaskets, radiator repair, head skim, new hoses all round and a lot of swearing replacing the core plug on a transverse engine
Try the powder, I want to see if we are right, good luck and make sure you let us know.

Sounds like u guys didn’t shake up the powder to make a cream to pour in? Just powder?


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[PJPom]

As promised I checked with mate in Australia, Silver seal stop leak.

I don’t know if you can get it here but just google it, I found one on google for $3, 

Just checked Aussie price, around $20= 450 baht via eBay, if you have anyone there get them to check with Repco, could be cheaper.

Just a further thought on the problem, have you checked the thermostat? another simple check to eliminate another possible problem.

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by PJPom
More info

[cheeryble]

As promised I checked with mate in Australia, Silver seal stop leak.
I don’t know if you can get it here but just google it, I found one on google for $3, 
Just checked Aussie price, around $20= 450 baht via eBay, if you have anyone there get them to check with Repco, could be cheaper.
Just a further thought on the problem, have you checked the thermostat? another simple check to eliminate another possible problem.
 

Thank u PJPom
I've been close to biting the bullet on the leak seal.
There’s no doubt it sometimes works, and there’s no doubt it can also cause more prob.
Luckily we now have a third car which takes the rush off.
Was chatting with a knowledgeable friend last night and given the v high ambient temperature and symptoms, and lack of symptoms like no oil/water mix, given the reasonable cost for small work he encouraged me to get the system fully flushed and tested again for leaks extra carefully, squeezing all hoses and renewing any which didn’t look fresh.



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[transam]

3 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

 

Thank u PJPom
I've been close to biting the bullet on the leak seal.
There’s no doubt it sometimes works, and there’s no doubt it can also cause more prob.
Luckily we now have a third car which takes the rush off.
Was chatting with a knowledgeable friend last night and given the v high ambient temperature and symptoms, and lack of symptoms like no oil/water mix, given the reasonable cost for small work he encouraged me to get the system fully flushed and tested again for leaks extra carefully, squeezing all hoses and renewing any which didn’t look fresh.



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You do not always get water in the oil ...I have the T-shirt...????

[cheeryble]

Duly noted


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[PJPom]

Good idea, pressure test first and follow on from there, good luck 

[cheeryble]

You do not always get water in the oil ...I have the T-shirt...[emoji39]

Duly noted


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[JAS21]

On 5/9/2019 at 12:14 PM, cheeryble said:

Sorry I overlooked I will mention to Ton when i go see him.

Change the radiator cap... get that one out of the way as a faulty one can cause a loss of water ... undetected

[jvs]

Just an idea,you say you fill it up every couple of days because it goes down.How far does it go down?Is there any way expansion can cause this?Does ot have an expansion vessel?If you do not fill it up does it keep going down?Maybe just worth checking.

[cheeryble]

Change the radiator cap... get that one out of the way as a faulty one can cause a loss of water ... undetected

Having learned a bit more I thoroughly agree with you, the cap is an important bit of kit.

It’s fun learning new stuff


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[cheeryble]

Just an idea,you say you fill it up every couple of days because it goes down.How far does it go down?Is there any way expansion can cause this?Does ot have an expansion vessel?If you do not fill it up does it keep going down?Maybe just worth checking.

Answer is I’m not quite sure.
The time the gurgling and steam from the expansion bottle happened the coolant level was very high. I had just topped it up but didn’t think I’d put too much in.
Fact is to be systematic I must check how high the coolant rises when it’s hot......whether it a normal amount or whether it’s so high it’s coming from over heating or gases entering the coolant system eg via a head gasket.


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[cheeryble]

Just an idea,you say you fill it up every couple of days because it goes down.How far does it go down?Is there any way expansion can cause this?Does ot have an expansion vessel?If you do not fill it up does it keep going down?Maybe just worth checking.

Answer is I’m not quite sure.
The time the gurgling and steam from the expansion bottle happened the coolant level was very high. I had just topped it up but didn’t think I’d put too much in.
Fact is to be systematic I must check how high the coolant rises when it’s hot......whether it a normal amount or whether it’s so high it’s coming from over heating or gases entering the coolant system eg via a head gasket.


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[cheeryble]

HE's back!

 

As I had use of the missus second car and been v busy I put the Vitara repair to one side a few weeks, but now determined to get on with it.

As it was left the weather was very hot.

i had had a big squirt from the top up reservoir of steamy hot water and the that and another time could feel a lot of heat could hardly open the bonnet/hood.

With the weather much cooler now and more comfortable to fiddle around, I drove 1 km down to a local tyre place where they do a few mechanical jobs to buy some distilled water. Turned off engine.

The engine was cool enough still to take off the rad cap.

With everything topped up and after explaining to the mechanic my prob a few minutes and with rad cap off I started up. Engine ran. after a while the water rose a little until a bit was running very slowly over the rad cap neck.be com Allowed more time and within a short number of minutes we got the water gushing upwards.

 

The guy shook his head and said definitely a head gasket.

I said do you know anywhere local that can do this. He shook his head.

I said any idea how much he said maybe 5000bt.

This may possible or it might be just a lowball guess, but he's a nice guy nd wife knows him well.

 

After a top up i drove home via a motorcycle place who are also v nice and wife's distant relatives.

Told them the story, but they said yes there IS someone local who can do this work.

I said can we trust his work all three guys emphatically said yes together.

 

So yesterday I ran through a couple of things.

1. Coolant water is not totally free of very small detritus and a wee bit of brown gunk around the rad cap neck but very little.

2. Oil filler cap clean no brown or cream stuff at all.

3. looking down past filler cap to camshaft area it looks like clean oil.

4. Dipstick has only clean oil.

 

 

 

Another friend told me of a "local" type place he has used for decades always been happy and saddlery well priced and the guys definitely capable of all types of work like this.

 

So its occurred to me to use a cheaper recommended guy.....local would be handy too so I can keep an eye on things and consult. I usually go to ProAuto and I like them but they would send it out anyway for this job.

 

I decided to do a little research and found a couple of interesting youtubes.

 

1. What the emphasise is changing the head gasket is not normally enough there is other work usually involved, sometime including the cause of any overheating.

2. Also a head skim is often not enough the other side of the head the cam side is more important to check.

3. Some bubbles as I got on yesterdays trial at home is not enough to confirm a head gasket.

 

Afraid my Parky's is making my typing a bit uncomfortable. will try to stick some photos and links in and come back.

 

 

mercedes head rings

 

 

 

 

On yesterdays; trial with the rad cap off at idle it took many minutes before a very little overflow then a few seconds of some modest gushing which stopped quickly and didn't happen any longer. 

 

I think a little research is in order before I speak to any potential mechanics hence the above.

Nice to know which questions to ask.

Edited July 5, 2019 by cheeryble

[cheeryble]

Hello all 

 

the Vitara is having open heart surgery as we speak.

Not just the head off but the whole lump is out.

 

Nice workshop eh?

 

It was great the whole lump came out as some things became visible and accessible.

 

First Lancashire Lad the clutch it turns out the car had a clutch cable for a Caribbean instead of a Vitara. This cable was put in when we found the distorted old cable which was causing the stiffness as in post 102

 My chung says there's nothing wrong with the newish clutch assembly but the two cables are a foot different in length and the adjustment mechanism is quite different, and showed me and is replacing it.

 

Second notable point someone earlier in this topic suggested looking at the disc like plugs on the side of the engine as they are alloy and can corrode to leak. well pointed out This had in fact happened to two of them, take a look.

Im not sure but the red stuff may have been applied from the outside as a leak proofer long ago

 

 

 

I tried to communicate as best I could and after looking at the cleaned up head and block face which showed some sclerosis in the coolant channels and what might have been one area of a very slight oil to coolant leakage I tried to go methodically through questions.

Piston rings? OK

Valve seating? OK

I presumed that to test these he had used a compression test which I enacted with mime and think he said yes.

I tried to ask about compression being the same in each cylinder and think I got a yes. (neung same same sawng? Sang same same sam? etc etc)

I then looked at the spark plugs which all looked identical and he said they're fine. Good.

New head gasket and clutch cable etc ready to fit.

I left it with him to do his thing.

 

 

[cheeryble]

On April 15, 2019 at 11:43 PM, MeePeeMai said:

Check your freeze plugs real good too.  When running rusty old water in the cooling system for so long the freeze plugs are prone to develop small leaks (which might only be detectable at normal or high operating temps).  It may be difficult to see the water leaking through any pinhole(s) as it turns to steam and evaporates very quickly.

You were right........among there problems!

[PJPom]

Thanks for posting, I wondered how you were going and so pleased so see that you didn’t forget all the armchair mechanics. Keep us informed please.

[transam]

Looking at the state of that "workshop" I wish you luck....

[cheeryble]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Looking at the state of that "workshop" I wish you luck....

He made this luxury bay specially for the Vitara.

On the other side is the ex mayor of CM's BMW.

I'm told some cars have been lost in the grass.

[PJPom]

Transam, we have been spoiled, I saw a guy in Kalasin remove a truck gearbox with logs as supports and a long pole to lever box off centre spline and drop it onto box which they then dragged out. How he put it back I have no idea.

[transam]

11 minutes ago, PJPom said:

Transam, we have been spoiled, I saw a guy in Kalasin remove a truck gearbox with logs as supports and a long pole to lever box off centre spline and drop it onto box which they then dragged out. How he put it back I have no idea.

As we know cleanliness when assembling an engine is paramount, I cannot see that happening in Suzies case..????

[transam]

16 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

He made this luxury bay specially for the Vitara.

On the other side is the ex mayor of CM's BMW.

I'm told some cars have been lost in the grass.

Ask him if he's got a torque wrench, your cylinder head will need one..

[johng]

And how many newton meters or foot pounds should those nuts be tightened to...it will say in the workshop manual which I'm sure the mechanic will have both and use them ...not just tighten the nuts as hard as possible...no never [emoji39]

[PJPom]

Just for interest, torquing a cylinder head on a modern car is no longer just applying a certain torque in one go. It is important to follow a certain sequence with anything up to four goes per stud and degrees of turn being noted. The instructions will be on the gasket packaging and are an absolute pain,  sometimes requiring two people to achieve the specified results, however I am sure your chap will have no problems.

As I said we have been spoiled by western insistence on adherence to instructions and specifications, this is Thailand and you are dealing with an older and simpler car so fingers crossed, you will be OK .

Keep us informed please

[cheeryble]

And how many newton meters or foot pounds should those nuts be tightened to...it will say in the workshop manual which I'm sure the mechanic will have both and use them ...not just tighten the nuts as hard as possible...no never [emoji39]

I was recommended this man by a friend who’s used him happily for a decade or two. Friend educated and worked as a managing engineer and owns four cars just for fun

I also know when u tighten down the head you should use a tiny dab of grease instead of oil to ease it as the oil can seep down and affect the new gasket. But I can only worry about so much. :)

 

 

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[JAS21]

16 hours ago, cheeryble said:

I was recommended this man by a friend who’s used him happily for a decade or two. Friend educated and worked as a managing engineer and owns four cars just for fun

I also know when u tighten down the head you should use a tiny dab of grease instead of oil to ease it as the oil can seep down and affect the new gasket. But I can only worry about so much. ????

 

 

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Torque figures are for clean unlubricated threads ...lubricating the threads basically increases the tension on the bolts/studs.

 

As you say ...if you don't know any better grease is preferable to oil...

 

But keep it up ...your tales pass away the time whilst MrsJ cooks the breakfast ...

Edited July 20, 2019 by JAS21