EU's Tusk says "dream" of Brexit U-turn not dead

[puipuitom]

21 hours ago, smedly said:

I find it amazing that after 40 odd years people cannot see where the EU is heading.

 

It started as a trading block of a few countries and has slowly morphed into a German led political monster now with aspirations towards becoming  a Military Empire - seriously ????

Military Empire ?  With what ? the 100 German tanks ? ? 

[puipuitom]

17 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Germany gets most of it's gas supply from Russia, and the recently built €9.5bn Nord Stream 2 pipeline will result in a further increase. This is from Reuters: 

 

"The EU bloc is divided in its support for the project. Eastern European, Nordic and Baltic Sea countries view the 1,225 km (760 mile) pipeline as holding the EU hostage to Moscow, while those in northern Europe, especially Germany, prioritizes the economic benefits."

As long as there are not enough alternatives, no choice.

Solar and wind energy is too unreliable, nuclear energy is destroyed by NOT taking that alternative in view and other gas suppliers do not have the capacity to land enough liquid gas into the EU. Our own gas-capacity is too small. So… sit in cold houses, poush your car yourself or go by bike ?

[baansgr]

So all the problems are because this <deleted> wants UK to stay....make note remoaners

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, smedly said:

are you lazy or what - go look it up yourself - the reasons are many

 

Oh and the NHS has already got an extra 350m and we haven't even left yet lol

 

Maybe you can think of something else to spend the money on - it's about 13b a year 

Maybe you can get a crack course calculating till 20 ? 

[Tilacme]

20 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Yes, sell your cars to Africa, and.. Brazil, China, Russia.... Same many outputs of other industries….. for so far still based in the UK and not moved to the EU.

Dont worry about our cars, worry about the jewel of europe leaving you sorry sack of bones to your own devises.

[CG1 Blue]

57 minutes ago, wabothai said:

66 mill brits and 750 mill europeans. 17.4 can be ignored.

Let's not exaggerate. The EU population is around 500 million not 750 million. The 750 million figure is for the whole of Europe. We're discussing the EU, not Europe. 

 

If you take away the UK from the EU we're left with an EU population of around 430 million. 

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, smedly said:

are you lazy or what - go look it up yourself - the reasons are many

 

Oh and the NHS has already got an extra 350m and we haven't even left yet lol

 

Maybe you can think of something else to spend the money on - it's about 13b a year 

42% of the UK still believes the £350m a week red bus message ...

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/.../kings-college-research-finds-leave-voters-still-b...

1.  

Oct 28, 2018 - Vote Leave campaigner Boris Johnson next to the campaign bus ... the “we send the EU £350m a week - let's fund our NHS instead” message to still be true.

 

Boris Johnson warned he faces court case over Leave's £350m a …

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/.../17241215.boris-johnson-warned-he-faces-court-ca...

1.  

Nov 22, 2018 - Boris Johnson has been warned that he faces a private prosecution over his ... BorisJohnson warned he faces court case over Leave's £350m a week NHS ...

 

NHS Million on Twitter: "Worried about the NHS being underfunded ...

 

https://twitter.com/nhsmillion/status/1111637478459486214

1.  

Mar 29, 2019 - Creating a team of a million people who are grateful for the NHS to help boost .... Today's the day we start getting our £350 million extra a week isn't it Boris.

 

The impact on NHS in England due to BREXIT - Impelus

 

https://www.impelus.com/blog/the-impact-on-nhs-in-england-due-to-brexit/

1.  

Mar 26, 2019 - ... Boris Johnson's 'Vote Leave' bus campaign confidently claimed that £350M ... NHSA&E staff received more than ten million emergency calls in June, this ...

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, wabothai said:

66 mill brits and 750 mill europeans. 17.4 can be ignored.

517 million people in the present EU. see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union  (  511,522,671  in 2017) 

[puipuitom]

13 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Let's not exaggerate. The EU population is around 500 million not 750 million. The 750 million figure is for the whole of Europe. We're discussing the EU, not Europe. 

 

If you take away the UK from the EU we're left with an EU population of around 430 million. 

And of course these 66 mln Brits can get a LOT BETTER international deals as combined in the 520 mln EU ( see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union ) , or even.. in the "remaining" 450 mln...

[CG1 Blue]

2 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

42% of the UK still believes the £350m a week red bus message ...

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/.../kings-college-research-finds-leave-voters-still-b...

1.  

Oct 28, 2018 - Vote Leave campaigner Boris Johnson next to the campaign bus ... the “we send the EU £350m a week - let's fund our NHS instead” message to still be true.

 

Boris Johnson warned he faces court case over Leave's £350m a …

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/.../17241215.boris-johnson-warned-he-faces-court-ca...

1.  

Nov 22, 2018 - Boris Johnson has been warned that he faces a private prosecution over his ... BorisJohnson warned he faces court case over Leave's £350m a week NHS ...

 

NHS Million on Twitter: "Worried about the NHS being underfunded ...

 

https://twitter.com/nhsmillion/status/1111637478459486214

1.  

Mar 29, 2019 - Creating a team of a million people who are grateful for the NHS to help boost .... Today's the day we start getting our £350 million extra a week isn't it Boris.

 

The impact on NHS in England due to BREXIT - Impelus

 

https://www.impelus.com/blog/the-impact-on-nhs-in-england-due-to-brexit/

1.  

Mar 26, 2019 - ... Boris Johnson's 'Vote Leave' bus campaign confidently claimed that £350M ... NHSA&E staff received more than ten million emergency calls in June, this ...

You are aware that the Remain side also made loads of misleading claims during the referendum campaign, right? We were told a vote to leave would bring immediate economic armageddon, an emergency budget, and even the threat of World War III. Who knows how many voters were frightened into voting remain because of these fear tactics. 

 

That's not even considering the government leaflet sent to every household (costing tax payers £9m) telling us to vote remain. 

 

To keep banging on about the bus slogan just sounds like desperation frankly. 

[GeorgeCross]

On 4/16/2019 at 3:51 PM, GroveHillWanderer said:

If you're referring to his much-misquoted tweet, he said nothing of the sort.

 

He said that he was:

 

So he was quite clearly not talking about the voters, he was referring to those politicians who were pushing for Brexit without ever having an inkling of a proper plan of how to achieve it. 

 

actually they had a proper plan it was called a no deal brexit (just called brexit at the time)

 

unfortunately our traiterous 'politicians' had other plans.

 

[CG1 Blue]

7 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

And of course these 66 mln Brits can get a LOT BETTER international deals as combined in the 520 mln EU ( see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union ) , or even.. in the "remaining" 450 mln...

Why do you think the EU are so desperate for the UK to remain in the the union? Do you think it's because they care about the British people and fear for their future outside the EU? Or do you think it's because they will miss the UK's international clout and the UK's financial contributions to the EU, and fear the UK's ability to become internationally competitive after we leave? 

I believe it's the latter. 

[bomber]

5 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

actually they had a proper plan it was called a no deal brexit (just called brexit at the time)

 

unfortunately our traiterous 'politicians' had other plans.

 

seems things havent gone well for you ????

[bomber]

Just now, CG1 Blue said:

Why do you think the EU are so desperate for the UK to remain in the the union? Do you think it's because they care about the British people and fear for their future outside the EU? Or do you think it's because they will miss the UK's international clout and the UK's financial contributions to the EU, and fear the UK's ability to become internationally competitive after we leave? 

I believe it's the latter. 

the UKs international clout consists of very little other than following uncle sam into whatever uncle sam says,usually at huge financial cost and 1000s of dead and wounded,perhaps BJ and farage were right £350 million might of been saved if it werent for the 1000s of soldiers missing limbs and needing treatment/care/adapted housing.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So you believe Boris, Gove, Farage, and R-Mogg all have fantastic plans but are just keep them to themselves?

 

Right to. Says it all.

Teresa May doesn't want to listen to anybody who may have a good plan or idea, especially if it comes from these people, Boris, Gove, Farage, and R-Mogg.

 

Any plans that they have are far better than the PM's latest master plan which was rejected 3 times and only passed by 1 vote. More than half the government and the opposition don't like it, the EU don't like it.

 

So far every Brexit plan that the PM has put up over the last 3 years has been shot down by the EU. Even the ones put up by Gove, Fox et al were rejected by TM and/or the EU.

 

She cannot even make a plan with JC and the Labour party that works.

 

And, as you so nicely put it, it says it all.

 

To quote Oliver Cromwell from over 350 years ago.

 

Oliver Cromwell's Speech to the English Parliament
20th April, 1653.

It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonoured by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.
Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess?
Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience for bribes?Is there a man that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?
Ye sordid prostitutes, have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turned the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and picked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone!
So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go!

 

[Tilacme]

Its all over for you sad remoaners. You have lost and you don't even know how crappy you are. #BREXIT

[Baerboxer]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Teresa May doesn't want to listen to anybody who may have a good plan or idea, especially if it comes from these people, Boris, Gove, Farage, and R-Mogg.

 

Any plans that they have are far better than the PM's latest master plan which was rejected 3 times and only passed by 1 vote. More than half the government and the opposition don't like it, the EU don't like it.

 

So far every Brexit plan that the PM has put up over the last 3 years has been shot down by the EU. Even the ones put up by Gove, Fox et al were rejected by TM and/or the EU.

 

She cannot even make a plan with JC and the Labour party that works.

 

And, as you so nicely put it, it says it all.

 

To quote Oliver Cromwell from over 350 years ago.

 

Oliver Cromwell's Speech to the English Parliament
20th April, 1653.

It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonoured by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.
Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess?
Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience for bribes?Is there a man that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?
Ye sordid prostitutes, have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turned the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and picked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone!
So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go!

 

 

I agree the ludicrous May and her muffins negotiated a crap deal. The "best deal possible" and their "meaningful votes" - utter crap.

 

However, to date, AFAIK, Boris, Gove, R-Mogg, Farage, the ERG and all their pals have so far not put anything forward as a plan. They promised a "Plan B" but so far nothing, zilch.

 

So your assertions, that "their plans would be better" is based on what? A 50/50 chance they might be? And if they were, why keep them to themselves?

 

The reality is they ain't got a clue.

[Baerboxer]

38 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Why do you think the EU are so desperate for the UK to remain in the the union? Do you think it's because they care about the British people and fear for their future outside the EU? Or do you think it's because they will miss the UK's international clout and the UK's financial contributions to the EU, and fear the UK's ability to become internationally competitive after we leave? 

I believe it's the latter. 

 

It's all about the money. The UK, France, Germany in isolation don't have much international clout any more. France and the UK aren't colonial powers anymore, and Germany never really was. Sure they hand out "foreign aid" but can't really compete in buying influence with the US, China or seemingly even Russia. Rising India may well even overtake them.

The British and French permanent seats of the UN Security Council could well be challenged. 

 

Britain and France are the EU's only nuclear powers (and Britain won't be for much longer of commie Corbyn gets in power). But both Britain and France have very limited conventional forces, especially naval, air and armor.

 

Britain's biggest attraction is it's net positive contributions to the EU kitty. But within the EU, there seems to be a self entitled view to EU money from some nations, whilst they also despise those whose money they readily take. 

 

France in particular wants the UK out - they think they will become top EU dogs, and replace English with French as the common language; and more importantly grab the UK's very lucrative finance industry or a good section of it.

[bomber]

27 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

Its all over for you sad remoaners. You have lost and you don't even know how crappy you are. #BREXIT

and when did brexit happen,i must of missed it ????

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

Military Empire ?  With what ? the 100 German tanks ? ? 

 Indeed. Even with the UK still a member, the 28 member states aren't a massive military force when combined.

 

Not compared to the US, Russian Federation, China or even Turkey. The first 3 also have far more nuclear weapons than Britain and France combined which is the EU arsenal.

 

That's why NATO is still relevant and important.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

First of all: these 17,4 million Brits, being an overwhelming landslide, undreamable mayority of... 51,88 %.. did NOT choose for a Brexit whatever costs, a hard Brexit, buit... to leave the EU. I presume at acceptable conditions, to have a new referendum over.

Second: so, completely "democratic" the winner takes all, and the 48,11 % of all Brits = Remainers... go to hell ? ? 

Third: give 17,4 million Brits a chance to think it over and evaluate, what are the chances 

Fourth: And MY opinion: when not at least 2/3 in favour of EU.. throw the British out. Enough problems with them since Heath, Thatcher, Cameron and now May again. Charles de Gaulle was right: do not get saboteurs in our Union.

 

You seriously think France plays by the rules and wants the EU run for everyone's benefit, even if that clashes with French interests?

 

 

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

typical remainer - you don't know when it's over and you lost lol

 

I'm done with your baiting and trolling nonsense

 

Any excuse not to answer the questions!

 

Like most typical Brexiteers, clueless about the real debates but simply following the  rhetoric and nonsense spouted by self interested and proven dishonest Tory wealthy elites.

 

It wasn't a once in a lifetime, never to be challenged, can't be reversed vote. No matter how much you pretend to yourself.

 

If you can't debate intelligently and with reason, don't worry. You'll fit right in with the Brexiteers! 

[Loiner]

 
I wouldn't dream of guessing their reasons and certainly don't do mind reading.

Well that’s not what your other Remainers say.

[Loiner]

 
Also interesting is that prior to Brexit the DUP were given money to pay for "their PR supporting Brexit". After May's GE folly they DUP really cashed in. As did a number of cities.
 
Dishing out taxpayers money to try and buy support. How very desperate she is.

I believe the arrangements made with DUP were in respect of there support of the Tory party to form a minority government.

[CG1 Blue]

20 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It's all about the money. The UK, France, Germany in isolation don't have much international clout any more. France and the UK aren't colonial powers anymore, and Germany never really was. Sure they hand out "foreign aid" but can't really compete in buying influence with the US, China or seemingly even Russia. Rising India may well even overtake them.

The British and French permanent seats of the UN Security Council could well be challenged. 

 

Britain and France are the EU's only nuclear powers (and Britain won't be for much longer of commie Corbyn gets in power). But both Britain and France have very limited conventional forces, especially naval, air and armor.

 

Britain's biggest attraction is it's net positive contributions to the EU kitty. But within the EU, there seems to be a self entitled view to EU money from some nations, whilst they also despise those whose money they readily take. 

 

France in particular wants the UK out - they think they will become top EU dogs, and replace English with French as the common language; and more importantly grab the UK's very lucrative finance industry or a good section of it.

I agree with a lot of this. However, we shouldn't understate Britain's influence in the world. We still have strong ties with former colonies (through the commonwealth etc.), we are one of the few countries with a 'blue water' navy meaning we can deploy forces just about anywhere globally (and we'll never let Corbyn bin the bomb!), we are key members of NATO, the UN, the G7 etc., and we're among the world leaders in science, the arts, finance, and technology.  

 

Yes the EU need our money, and yes the French believe they might benefit from the UK's departure. But there is definitely fear from some quarters that a successful UK post-Brexit would be a threat to the EU. 

[Loiner]

23 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I am glad my home country doesn’t entertain such nonsense. 

 

And now your parliamentary representative democracy decided to do things differently. That’s how it goes. ????‍♂️ 

Come on Fritzy, 'fess up. There's various kinds of referendum in your corner of the EU isn't there?

They are trying to do things differently to what they previously promised and legislated for. Here i the UK, even a representative democracy cannot lie to the electorate and easily get away with it, no matter how often your EU gangsters pull that type of trick.

[JAG]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

If you have a problem with Brexit then tell your local MP and see how far he gets with it.

If your local MP is one of the very many who stood for election on a party manifesto of honouring the referendum result, and subsequently voted for the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, and is now trying to weasel out of it, then he won't get (or go) far. In fact he/she will ignore you. He/she will be banking on having three years to re-election time, and hoping that you will have forgotten.

 

Nigel Farrage has called it right; (personally I think he is a bit of a plonker, albeit a rather engaging plonker) but he is on this essentially right - they have betrayed the expressed wish of the British electorate.

[malagateddy]

66 mill brits and 750 mill europeans. 17.4 can be ignored.

Why do you come out with such a stupid comment..you must think might has right..obviously you are including countless millions from the eu subsidy junkie countries who export organised crime.



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[malagateddy]

You are aware that the Remain side also made loads of misleading claims during the referendum campaign, right? We were told a vote to leave would bring immediate economic armageddon, an emergency budget, and even the threat of World War III. Who knows how many voters were frightened into voting remain because of these fear tactics. 
 
That's not even considering the government leaflet sent to every household (costing tax payers £9m) telling us to vote remain. 
 
To keep banging on about the bus slogan just sounds like desperation frankly. 

No they've got more than that..blair..the sociopath and imo war criminal with clegg .. another sociopath[emoji6]

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[malagateddy]

Come on Fritzy, 'fess up. There's various kinds of referendum in your corner of the EU isn't there?

They are trying to do things differently to what they previously promised and legislated for. Here i the UK, even a representative democracy cannot lie to the electorate and easily get away with it, no matter how often your EU gangsters pull that type of trick.

Whatever you do..do not mention merkels " dirty " deal with putin..as she would rather no one talked about it[emoji2]

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