SE Asia options for expats/ex Thailand.

[swissie]

As I have been looking into this "re-locating" Business for quite some time I came to the following conclusion:

- As the so called 3rd world contries "narrow the gap", the less of an economic factor become the relatively few Expats in a country. (As part of the overall Thai-Economy, the financial contribution by Expat-Farangs is negligeable and play no role as far as the future economic developement of Thailand is conderned). Not talking "Tourism", well understood.

I see a trend evolving: At some point, only Farangs with a big wallet will be alloed in those "Retirement Paradises". (Those that can actually pay for an extended stay at a Hospital, for example.) Meaning that Expats only living on some moderate "Pension" will no more be able to qualify.

Another trend evolving: As those countries are "narrowing the gap" economically, currency exchange rates will mirror this fact. Meaning: Those countries will no more stand for "low cost of living" anymore.

Above all: Most of those SE/Asia Retirement Paradises are what is known as "Guided Democracies". Meaning: Without lenghty parliamentary discussions, Immigration "rules" can change overnight, making an investement in those countries the ultimate gamble.
I strongly believe that the Era of "Easy and low cost Retirement under Palm Trees" is coming to an end in SE/Asia for a majority of Farangs. This trend extending beyond SE/Asia most likely.
NOTE: All of this will only affect folks with a small(er) wallet. Once you park your 150 Meter Yacht in Monaco, you will be issued permanent residency in no time at all. In the end, it will boil down to "Size". Size matters! This time the size of ones wallet only.

- The current situation(s) in those countries are of no relevance. The only thing one can do is to extrapolite current trends into the future. It doesn't look good.

Once Threads like "What are the conditions of re-locating to Eastern Timuktu or Zimbabwe" are starting to emerge, then I will know that my prophecies have become reality.

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, swissie said:

As I have been looking into this "re-locating" Business for quite some time I came to the following conclusion:

- As the so called 3rd world contries "narrow the gap", the less of an economic factor become the relatively few Expats in a country. (As part of the overall Thai-Economy, the financial contribution by Expat-Farangs is negligeable and play no role as far as the future economic developement of Thailand is conderned). Not talking "Tourism", well understood.

I see a trend evolving: At some point, only Farangs with a big wallet will be alloed in those "Retirement Paradises". (Those that can actually pay for an extended stay at a Hospital, for example.) Meaning that Expats only living on some moderate "Pension" will no more be able to qualify.

Another trend evolving: As those countries are "narrowing the gap" economically, currency exchange rates will mirror this fact. Meaning: Those countries will no more stand for "low cost of living" anymore.

Above all: Most of those SE/Asia Retirement Paradises are what is known as "Guided Democracies". Meaning: Without lenghty parliamentary discussions, Immigration "rules" can change overnight, making an investement in those countries the ultimate gamble.
I strongly believe that the Era of "Easy and low cost Retirement under Palm Trees" is coming to an end in SE/Asia for a majority of Farangs. This trend extending beyond SE/Asia most likely.
NOTE: All of this will only affect folks with a small(er) wallet. Once you park your 150 Meter Yacht in Monaco, you will be issued permanent residency in no time at all. In the end, it will boil down to "Size". Size matters! This time the size of ones wallet only.

- The current situation(s) in those countries are of no relevance. The only thing one can do is to extrapolite current trends into the future. It doesn't look good.

Once Threads like "What are the conditions of re-locating to Eastern Timuktu or Zimbabwe" are starting to emerge, then I will know that my prophecies have become reality.

All folks from the EU looking for sunshine can just move to Spain without even needing any visa. Spain is  also an affordable country.

There are lots of lower income countries giving good deals to expats retirees. I guess u just to blind to spot them.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Destiny1990

[swissie]

2 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

All folks from the EU looking for sunshine can just move to Spain without even needing any visa. Spain is  also an affordable country.

There are lots of lower income countries giving good deals to expats retirees. I guess u just to blind to spot them.

Plenty of Brits have retired in Spain. After the depreciation of the £, many are forced to live a very "humble-life" in Spain these days. After Brexit: Visa-Issues will surface.

Spain an "Affordable Country"? Yes, the Countryside of Spain is still quite "affordable". It's just that Rural-Spain is about as exiting as Rural-Laos. The places where a sane Expat would really want to stay in Spain are far less "affordable".= Understatement.

If there are lots of "lower income countries" giving Expats a good deal, (That I have been too blind to see, according to you), Name them, including the "fine print" that can only be overcome with the assistance of a Native Lawyer for a price.
Never mind, there will always be "affordable countries", with lax Immi-Legislation. Eastern Timbuktu and Zimbabwe come to mind among a few others. Spain can not possibly be on the list of someone that has lived in Thailand for any extended period of time. Not even considering financial aspects.
Your turn.

[Destiny1990]

5 minutes ago, swissie said:

Plenty of Brits have retired in Spain. After the depreciation of the £, many are forced to live a very "humble-life" in Spain these days. After Brexit: Visa-Issues will surface.

Spain an "Affordable Country"? Yes, the Countryside of Spain is still quite "affordable". It's just that Rural-Spain is about as exiting as Rural-Laos. The places where a sane Expat would really want to stay in Spain are far less "affordable".= Understatement.

If there are lots of "lower income countries" giving Expats a good deal, (That I have been too blind to see, according to you), Name them, including the "fine print" that can only be overcome with the assistance of a Native Lawyer for a price.
Never mind, there will always be "affordable countries", with lax Immi-Legislation. Eastern Timbuktu and Zimbabwe come to mind among a few others. Spain can not possibly be on the list of someone that has lived in Thailand for any extended period of time. Not even considering financial aspects.
Your turn.

Google Phillipines visa regulations..

Vietnam has less expensive visa deals.

its really not so difficult finding Countries whom are presenting us less complicated  visa options and procedures than Thailand.

24 hour notification  with 10k fines i have never come across such thing besides Thailand that is.

If People can live happily  in isarn than rural Spain will be an upgrade for them.

 

[Odysseus123]

5 hours ago, swissie said:

As I have been looking into this "re-locating" Business for quite some time I came to the following conclusion:

- As the so called 3rd world contries "narrow the gap", the less of an economic factor become the relatively few Expats in a country. (As part of the overall Thai-Economy, the financial contribution by Expat-Farangs is negligeable and play no role as far as the future economic developement of Thailand is conderned). Not talking "Tourism", well understood.

I see a trend evolving: At some point, only Farangs with a big wallet will be alloed in those "Retirement Paradises". (Those that can actually pay for an extended stay at a Hospital, for example.) Meaning that Expats only living on some moderate "Pension" will no more be able to qualify.

Another trend evolving: As those countries are "narrowing the gap" economically, currency exchange rates will mirror this fact. Meaning: Those countries will no more stand for "low cost of living" anymore.

Above all: Most of those SE/Asia Retirement Paradises are what is known as "Guided Democracies". Meaning: Without lenghty parliamentary discussions, Immigration "rules" can change overnight, making an investement in those countries the ultimate gamble.
I strongly believe that the Era of "Easy and low cost Retirement under Palm Trees" is coming to an end in SE/Asia for a majority of Farangs. This trend extending beyond SE/Asia most likely.
NOTE: All of this will only affect folks with a small(er) wallet. Once you park your 150 Meter Yacht in Monaco, you will be issued permanent residency in no time at all. In the end, it will boil down to "Size". Size matters! This time the size of ones wallet only.

- The current situation(s) in those countries are of no relevance. The only thing one can do is to extrapolite current trends into the future. It doesn't look good.

Once Threads like "What are the conditions of re-locating to Eastern Timuktu or Zimbabwe" are starting to emerge, then I will know that my prophecies have become reality.

"immigration "rules" can change overnight,making an investment in those countries the ultimate gamble."

 

Well said.

[swissie]

1 hour ago, Destiny1990 said:

Google Phillipines visa regulations..

Vietnam has less expensive visa deals.

its really not so difficult finding Countries whom are presenting us less complicated  visa options and procedures than Thailand.

24 hour notification  with 10k fines i have never come across such thing besides Thailand that is.

If People can live happily  in isarn than rural Spain will be an upgrade for them.

 

As I have tried to outline: Current Visa Regulations in those countries are no indication as to what those Visa-Regulations will be 10 years from now.

- I have lived in Rural-Thailand as well as in Rural Spain.  I found that Rural-Thailand is actually less boring than Rural Spain. That says it all. It would only take 2 horses to drag me back to Rural Thaiand, but no 10 horses could drag me back to Rural Spain.

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, swissie said:

I see a trend evolving: At some point, only Farangs with a big wallet will be alloed in those "Retirement Paradises". (Those that can actually pay for an extended stay at a Hospital, for example.) Meaning that Expats only living on some moderate "Pension" will no more be able to qualify.

Just not true, 10 years back Thailand was my only option, today Cambodia, Vietnam and the Philippines are just as easy as Thailand once was (one year for $300 with no paperwork or immigration hell). I can also see China adding itself to the list of easy places for foreigners to live in the near future.

If anything Thailand is moving in the opposite direction to all the other Asian countries.

Edited April 19, 2019 by BritManToo

[Destiny1990]

26 minutes ago, swissie said:

As I have tried to outline: Current Visa Regulations in those countries are no indication as to what those Visa-Regulations will be 10 years from now.

- I have lived in Rural-Thailand as well as in Rural Spain.  I found that Rural-Thailand is actually less boring than Rural Spain. That says it all. It would only take 2 horses to drag me back to Rural Thaiand, but no 10 horses could drag me back to Rural Spain.

Hey i can only compare what countries have today for prices and procedures for their visa application.

i don't know how visa procedures will be in a decade for any country in the world sorry but u don’t make much sense.

By all means stay in Isarn..

 

[mokwit]

16 hours ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

It think that's because Vietnam is the new destination for refugee expats from the surrounding nations. 

Indonesia used to be free and easy - tightened up, Cambodia was ultra free and easy - tightened up, similar seems to be happening in Vietnam. IMO there will be further tightening as these economies develop - unless you tangibly benefit the economy in away that might be laid out in visa rules my guess is their feeling is why do we need these people - when Thailand came out with it's retirement visa in 1979 the economy was in the dumps, there were loads of empty apartments after US personnel left and it was likely assumed that retirees would employ a maid, a cook a gardener and a driver. They were likely not envisaging a flood of people who could not afford to live in their own country.

Edited April 20, 2019 by mokwit

[BritManToo]

21 minutes ago, mokwit said:

tightened up, Cambodia was ultra free and easy - tightened up,

Maybe you can explain how it's 'tightened up', a one year multi-entry ES VISA for $300 (introduced in 2017) by signing an application at an agents office, with no financial checks seems pretty 'free and easy' to me.

Edited April 20, 2019 by BritManToo

[mokwit]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Maybe you can explain how it's 'tightened up', a one year multi-entry ES VISA for $300 (introduced in 2017) by signing an application at an agents office, with no financial checks seems pretty 'free and easy' to me.

OK maybe I missed something that happened in 2017 but I remember friends telling me it was getting harder previously - business visa required business paperwork whereas previously it did not. My timeline for judging harder or easier is 1995 to present.

 

How is it without the Agent?

Edited April 20, 2019 by mokwit

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, mokwit said:

OK maybe I missed something that happened in 2017 but I remember friends telling me it was getting harder previously - business visa required business paperwork whereas previously it did not. My timeline for judging harder or easier is 1995 to present.

 

How is it without the Agent?

Cambodia uses agents, the Cambo agents get around $20 out of the $300.

Yes you need business paperwork for the business VISA (since 2017), but nothing (if over 55) apart from the $300 for the ES VISA.

[ExpatPH]

Cost of visa in Vietnam has increased last 2 years. Rumors among expats in Vietnam that a retirement visa is planned, but expected to cost more than Thailand. Future will tell.

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, ExpatPH said:

Cost of visa in Vietnam has increased last 2 years. Rumors among expats in Vietnam that a retirement visa is planned, but expected to cost more than Thailand. Future will tell.

Thai retirement VISA (for a Brit) 800k lost interest @ 5% = 40k, then add the VISA price 2k = 42k (around $1,400)

How much more do you think it will cost?

 

I'm certainly OK with the Philippines and Cambodian VISA costs at around $300/year.

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by BritManToo

[NCC1701A]

17 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Visas getting tight and more expensive..... same can be said for the pussy. 

well then I am out of here.

 

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm certainly OK with the Philippines and Cambodian VISA costs at around $300/year.

Yes, but a major drawback is that you would have to live in Cambodia or PI.

 

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Yes, but a major drawback is that you would have to live in Cambodia or PI.

Both easily as nice a place to live as Thailand (and Vietnam).

Frequent power cuts in Cambodia are a bit of a pain, but the beaches and ruins are nicer than Thailand.

 

The reason I'm still in Thailand is because 10 years back my choices weren't so wide, and now I have Thai children to look after.

Edited April 20, 2019 by BritManToo

[totally thaied up]

I want somewhere I can have more of a PR experience than anything else. My wife and I are in Australia now and for $7000, she can get PR and with the AUD in the bin, living back at home if you have your own property makes better sense. 

 

This year, I most likely will venture outside of Thailand more with the wife to other SEA destinations as it is in many ways, cheaper. For long periods of time, I lived in China and the Philippines. I could most likely live in the Philippines during non typhoon season with the wife. My wife has worked out now that Thailand is far from perfect and is questioning things a lot more now.

 

If I had to do it again, I would be looking at a country with a PR scheme and something that has a stable dollar for me. I will most likely spend more time in Australia now and move around a little more when in Thailand as value for dollar has dishimished a lot and Thailand has become less value.

[ExpatPH]

2 hours ago, mokwit said:

Yes, but a major drawback is that you would have to live in Cambodia or PI.

 

 

Do you prefer to return back home?

Thailand kick out expats weekly now, so Plan B is a must have.

And wait to new imm chief come with new requirements.

Suddenly Cambodia, Vietnam and Philippines don't soumd so bad after all.

 

[5633572526]

On 4/19/2019 at 2:22 PM, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

I live in Vietnam. Longer term Vietnam visas are getting harder to get and are becoming more expensive. There no retirement visas or extensions. My current 6-month multi-entry Business cost $350US/11,000 baht. Had a one-year Business visa before that that also cost me $350. In effect, it doubled in price. The 2-year Temporary Residence Card has gone through the roof at $1600US/50,000 baht late last year. Was half that in mid-2018 and half of that again in 2017. 

 

Most people run on 3-month single entry visas, doing border runs to Cambodia. Yes, with the right agents, some can get longer visas and extensions. But then a month later, you find out the price has increased hugely or they remain unavailable for a period of time. Availability also depends on what immigration district you live in. You just never know.

 

I was just quoted $160US/5,000 baht for a 3-month multi-entry. I'm reconsidering my future in VN for visa and other reasons. I don't want to keep having to do visa runs every three months. And I want to travel on my own initiative.  

 

Just heard a rumour today from a long-time expat that a retirement visa is in the works. I will bet that it's going to be way more expensive than Thailand's or Cambodia's. It think that's because Vietnam is the new destination for refugee expats from the surrounding nations. 

My 1 year multi entry visa was only $125.00 usd but I think the number of countries this is available to is limited. You can get a visa on line for Vietnam maybe check your options there. This is my second consecutive visa and the only contact with immigration officials is entering and exiting at the airport. No tm30 or tm28, no 90 day reports. I couldn’t even tell you where an immigration office is located. 

[KittenKong]

On 4/19/2019 at 2:25 PM, Darkside Gray said:

Don't know about Puerto Rico but Mexico is great and lots of fun.

I went there once and could not leave fast enough. I actually changed my return flight date it was so bad.

[KittenKong]

22 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Thai retirement VISA (for a Brit) 800k lost interest @ 5% = 40k, then add the VISA price 2k = 42k (around $1,400)

How much more do you think it will cost?

I would like to know where you can get 5% interest in the UK on a secure deposit. I'm actually getting very slightly more on my 800kB here (2.5%) than I would get for a similar deposit in the UK (2.4%).

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, KittenKong said:

I would like to know where you can get 5% interest in the UK on a secure deposit. I'm actually getting very slightly more on my 800kB here (2.5%) than I would get for a similar deposit in the UK (2.4%).

You can get 8% in Cambodia in a USD account.

I only get 1.6% in Thailand in my TMB account.

[KittenKong]

On 4/19/2019 at 2:22 PM, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

I live in Vietnam. Longer term Vietnam visas are getting harder to get and are becoming more expensive. There no retirement visas or extensions. My current 6-month multi-entry Business cost $350US/11,000 baht. Had a one-year Business visa before that that also cost me $350. In effect, it doubled in price. The 2-year Temporary Residence Card has gone through the roof at $1600US/50,000 baht late last year. Was half that in mid-2018 and half of that again in 2017. 

 

Most people run on 3-month single entry visas, doing border runs to Cambodia.

My retirement extension in Thailand costs me 2000B per year, all-in. It takes me under one hour to obtain at an office that is a 10 minute walk from my condo (which I own outright with no limitations) and requires no special paperwork of any type. If I like I can stay here indefinitely without ever leaving, or if I prefer I can leave as often as I like for a total extra cost of 3900B.

 

Someone please let me know when any other SE Asian country even comes close to that.

[KittenKong]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You can get 8% in Cambodia in a USD account.

I only get 1.6% in Thailand in my TMB account.

USD in Cambodia? Not for me, I'm afraid.

 

If your Thai bank only pays 1.6% then you should look for another bank. My TD here pays 2.5%, tax-free.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

USD in Cambodia? Not for me, I'm afraid.

 

If your Thai bank only pays 1.6% then you should look for another bank. My TD here pays 2.5%, tax-free.

Not worth doing anything for 0.9%.

Cambodia uses USD as it's normal day-to-day currency.

I much prefer to bank in USD than some Asian mickey mouse currency.

If I have to have more than monthly expenses in the 3rd world, I prefer it to be in a country that banks in USD.

Edited April 21, 2019 by BritManToo

[KittenKong]

On 4/20/2019 at 3:42 AM, swissie said:

Plenty of Brits have retired in Spain. After the depreciation of the £, many are forced to live a very "humble-life" in Spain these days. After Brexit: Visa-Issues will surface.

Unlikely to be any visa issues for retired Brits in Spain or Portugal or France etc. Those countries are very keen to retain British retirees and will go out of their way to make it easy for them to stay.

 

As for general costs, depending on how you live Spain or Portugal could easily be cheaper than Thailand for many people. It all depends on your way of life. Income tax also comes into the question and for me that is the main aspect of it.

[KittenKong]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Not worth doing anything for 0.9%.

Up2U.

[KittenKong]

On 4/19/2019 at 3:05 PM, Destiny1990 said:

What are popular towns for expats in Vietnam?

i heard about Dah Nang at the beach

Ho tja min City and Saigon or am i mixing it up.

3 months visa for 5000 bht sounds excellent for me.

If you only stay for 3 months you are hardly an "ex-pat". For me to consider living somewhere I would need easy access to as many one-year visas as I like. Thailand offers that but as far as I can see Vietnam is just a temporary holiday destination (albeit a nice one).

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

1 hour ago, 5633572526 said:

My 1 year multi entry visa was only $125.00 usd but I think the number of countries this is available to is limited. You can get a visa on line for Vietnam maybe check your options there. This is my second consecutive visa and the only contact with immigration officials is entering and exiting at the airport. No tm30 or tm28, no 90 day reports. I couldn’t even tell you where an immigration office is located. 

 

That tourist visa, with mandatory 90-day departures, is only available to Americans due to a bilateral reciprocity treaty between VN and the US. But yeah, lack of paperwork/reports in VN is a plus.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Kaoboi Bebobp