FBI arrests leader of U.S. 'patriots' stopping migrants at border

[Becker]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I didn't say anything of the sort.

Man, you are one 'ignored' dude!

 

It's amazing how the ignore function makes ThaiVisa such a more pleasant and less confrontational experience.

And here I thought you Brits were made of sterner stuff - especially you Brexiteers. 

[Thainesss]

4 minutes ago, simple1 said:

I'll take the word of the New Mexico AG, over yours...

  

"Today's arrest by the FBI indicates clearly that the rule of law should be in the hands of trained law enforcement officials, not armed vigilantes," Balderas said in a statement.

 

Two things:

 

1) Hector Balderas is a latino liberal democrat, which completely backs up my point. 

 

2) The entire militia group remains unfazed and in tact and continues to patrol and do as they wish. The only thing your Liberal D AG could do was bust a person who was illegally in possession and then bang out some political talking points. 

 

There isn't alot more your hero AG can do unless he wants another Ruby Ridge/Waco/Murdering his own countrymen type of tyrannical situation, which im convinced that some of these politicians and appointed people want and toy with the idea.  

[bristolboy]

25 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

The only thing deemed unacceptable is the turd who was in illegal possession of firearms for being a felon which tainted and overshadowed everything they did. Everything else is perfectly legal. Militias are legal. Patrolling is legal. Citizens arrest is legal. 

 

I realize to a non-americas this is crazy but its called liberty. I also realize liberals don't want people they hate to have that much power, which is frankly scary, but well noted. 

Really?

When Can a Private Citizen Arrest Someone?

A person can arrest someone that they reasonably suspect of committing a felony, even if the felony didn't occur in the presence of the individual making the arrest. As long as a felony was actually committed and the individual making the arrest knew of the crime, a reasonable suspicion about the identity of the perpetrator will justify their arrest... In general, people can't use a citizen's arrest for misdemeanors unless the misdemeanor involves a breach of the peace. 

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/citizen-s-arrest.html

[Thainesss]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Really?

 

Yep. Fact. 

 

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

A person can arrest someone that they reasonably suspect of committing a felony, even if the felony didn't occur in the presence of the individual making the arrest.

 

A horde of illegal immigrants in the middle of the night in a known drug trafficking cartel hotspot attempting to cross a sovereign nations border, illegally. They could have had guns, drugs, bombs, child trafficking, any number of hazardous and dangerous items on them and who knows, they might have. 

 

The fact that none of them were arrested except for the 'leader' who was in illegal possession of weapons is a testament to this fact. 

[bristolboy]

Land ports of entry are their primary means for getting drugs into the country, not stretches of the border without barriers, says the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.

The agency said in a November report that the most common trafficking technique by transnational criminal organizations is to hide drugs in passenger vehicles or tractor-trailers as they drive into the U.S. though entry ports, where they are stopped and subject to inspection. They also employ buses, cargo trains and tunnels, the report says, citing smuggling methods that would not be choked off by a border wall.

https://www.apnews.com/7a14725f21a845cb9d04b5bf990cac59

[simple1]

24 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Two things:

 

1) Hector Balderas is a latino liberal democrat, which completely backs up my point. 

 

2) The entire militia group remains unfazed and in tact and continues to patrol and do as they wish. The only thing your Liberal D AG could do was bust a person who was illegally in possession and then bang out some political talking points. 

 

There isn't alot more your hero AG can do unless he wants another Ruby Ridge/Waco/Murdering his own countrymen type of tyrannical situation, which im convinced that some of these politicians and appointed people want and toy with the idea.  

Not my AG, just interested in what's going on in the US under trump. Personally I find the man very destructive. IMO the majority of US nationals rue the day he obtained power, will likely take years to recover from his or should I really say Bannon's influence. BTW Liberal in my current home country equates to Conservative, but not the relatively Far Right Conservative conspiracy mongering, reflected in your comments, as exists today, in the USA under trump.

[bristolboy]

7 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Yep. Fact. 

 

 

A horde of illegal immigrants in the middle of the night in a known drug trafficking cartel hotspot attempting to cross a sovereign nations border, illegally. They could have had guns, drugs, bombs, child trafficking, any number of hazardous and dangerous items on them and who knows, they might have. 

 

The fact that none of them were arrested except for the 'leader' who was in illegal possession of weapons is a testament to this fact. 

It's a falsehood about it being a "known drug trafficking cartel hotspot." And we know you're maing up a falsehood not only because the DEA says so, but because anyone who has followed the trials of narcotraficanates knows that they are not smuggling drugs over any wall or open borders via immigrants. As the testimony of the the many people who worked for and with drug kingpins shows, the drugs are smuggled through ports of entry via trucks, autos, trains, etc.. Stop making things up.

[chilli42]

2 hours ago, Thainesss said:

Does Mexico have a drug problem or does the US?  I have not heard much about Fentanyl abuse in Mexico.  Until I do I will assume the drug problem resides in America where drugs are widely distributed and used.

 

2 hours ago, Thainesss said:

Please let mexico know that we are deeply sorry for having to shoot teargas into the no mans land BETWEEN the border fences, but unless Mexico can stop the hordes of needy people draining our tax dollars, and their literal worse-than-ISIS cartels from shipping their drugs over and killing americans with Fentanyl, its a necessary and minor step.

 

[bristolboy]

19 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Yep. Fact. 

 

 

A horde of illegal immigrants in the middle of the night in a known drug trafficking cartel hotspot attempting to cross a sovereign nations border, illegally. They could have had guns, drugs, bombs, child trafficking, any number of hazardous and dangerous items on them and who knows, they might have. 

 

 

In addition, you still clearly don't get it. The militia members would have had to have known that a felony was committed. Not that one might have been committed. You know, like if a bank gets robbed and a private citizen sees someone running away from the scene of a crime that might qualify. 

"As long as a felony was actually committed and the individual making the arrest knew of the crime, a reasonable suspicion about the identity of the perpetrator will justify their arrest.

[Thainesss]

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

It's a falsehood about it being a "known drug trafficking cartel hotspot." And we know you're maing up a falsehood not only because the DEA says so, but because anyone who has followed the trials of narcotraficanates knows that they are not smuggling drugs over any wall or open borders via immigrants. As the testimony of the the many people who worked for and with drug kingpins shows, the drugs are smuggled through ports of entry via trucks, autos, trains, etc.. Stop making things up.

 

False. You are the one making up falsehoods here by trying to state that drugs dont come over the unsecured border. They do, and the DEA says so. Just because they ALSO come over the border through other means doesnt take away from this fact. 

 

I have no earthly idea why you want to obfuscate this fact, but if I was a guessing man its that you have an agenda. 

[Thainesss]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

In addition, you still clearly don't get it. The militia members would have had to have known that a felony was committed.

 

Why aren't they arrested then? 

[tlandtday]

5 hours ago, Thailand said:

Ellis island, would that be where the patriots ancestors arrived?

And did they sneak across or go across legally.  To draw such a comparison is beyond ridiculous.

[atyclb]

5 hours ago, bushdoctor said:

 

Here is an example of CBP stopping migrants from entering the USA illegally. This took place at the San Ysidro border with Mexico several months ago. It was on all the major US news channels....

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/11/25/us/san-ysidro-port-of-entry-closed/index.html

 

big deal 500 rushing the border, it's not as if 2 central americans setup a floating house 13 miles off the US coast.

[bristolboy]

20 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

False. You are the one making up falsehoods here by trying to state that drugs dont come over the unsecured border. They do, and the DEA says so. Just because they ALSO come over the border through other means doesnt take away from this fact. 

 

I have no earthly idea why you want to obfuscate this fact, but if I was a guessing man its that you have an agenda. 

It isn't that they  "ALSO come over the border through other means". It's not acase of "also" or "in addition to" it's that the vast majority of them across the border through legal ports of entry .And you are lying when say that it was a . "known drug trafficking cartel hotspot." Flat out lying. 

[bristolboy]

31 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

False. You are the one making up falsehoods here by trying to state that drugs dont come over the unsecured border. They do, and the DEA says so. Just because they ALSO come over the border through other means doesnt take away from this fact. 

 

I have no earthly idea why you want to obfuscate this fact, but if I was a guessing man its that you have an agenda. 

And what makes this discussion ridiculous is that you apparently believe that it is possible to put a halt or nearly so, to the drugs coming across the border. But on the off chance you don't believe that, why is this drugs issue so important?

[Srikcir]

29 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

The militia members would have had to have known that a felony was committed. Not that one might have been committed.

Any undocumented (ie., at an official border crossing) migrant that enters the US through areas not official border crossings can still legally claim asylum and have the right to due process of law. Until an immigration court denies such claim and order deportation, the migrant is allowed to remain in the US.

Militia members presuppose undocumented migrants are committing a felony for which militia members lack jurisdiction. There is no basis for citizen's arrest.

Should any of migrants detained and mishandled by militias, and subsequently be successful in seeking asylum, they might have standing to sue the militia. If the federal government failed its responsibility to assure their safety during claim for asylum, it could be sued as well.

One might even carry a legal argument to calling the border militias "domestic terrorists," ironically breaching the Patriot Act.

[Thainesss]

6 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And you are lying when say that it was a . "known drug trafficking cartel hotspot." Flat out lying. 

 

You should really stop calling me a liar. I honestly believe that people shouldn't say on the internet what they wouldnt say to someones face. These migrants get coyotes (through CARTELS) and those coyotes figure out the best way for them to get through at any given time. Cartels DO pass illegal drugs, guns, weapons, contraband with illegal aliens. This is a fact. 

 

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And what makes this discussion ridiculous is that you apparently believe that it is possible to put a halt or nearly so, to the drugs coming across the border. But on the off chance you don't believe that, why is this drugs issue so important?

 

WOW the mental gymnastics your going through here is spectacular. The thread is about militias and illegal aliens and youve dragged me into some border wall drug trafficking argument, and then had the audacity to blame me for it. 

[Puchaiyank]

If Larry the leader...was carrying a firearm as a convicted felon, then he may very well spend a good bit more time in jail...than on the trail... 

[Thainesss]

4 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Any undocumented (ie., at an official border crossing)

 

True so far. 

 

4 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

migrant that enters the US through areas not official border crossings can still legally claim asylum and have the right to due process of law.

 

Aaaaaaaand heres where its not so true. The law says that you can present at a legal point of entry and claim asylum, and that you can claim asylum regardless of status from within the USA itself, but there is no law whatsoever that states that you can illegally cross the border to claim asylum. 

 

If you cross the border illegally you will be arrested. 

 

7 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Militia members presuppose undocumented migrants are committing a felony for which militia members lack jurisdiction. There is no basis for citizen's arrest.

Should any of migrants detained and mishandled by militias, and subsequently be successful in seeking asylum, they might have standing to sue the militia. If the federal government failed its responsibility to assure their safety during claim for asylum, it could be sued as well.

One might even carry a legal argument to calling the border militias "domestic terrorists," ironically breaching the Patriot Act.

 

The entire basis of the rest of this is false as the illegal immigrants are refusing to follow the law and present at a LEGAL port of entry to claim asylum and instead choosing to break the law and cross the border illegally. 

 

The laws are broken and reward illegal aliens for sneaking across the border, illegally. 

[tlandtday]

A solution which needs to be undertaken is to put in prison anyone employing someone illegal and also to cut off all welfare and subsidization for illegals but provide a safety net and access to jobs if legally entering.  I can't understand why these simple measures are not undertaken.  Must be tremendous pressure from employers who want cheap non union labor.

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

True so far. 

 

 

Aaaaaaaand heres where its not so true. The law says that you can present at a legal point of entry and claim asylum, and that you can claim asylum regardless of status from within the USA itself, but there is no law whatsoever that states that you can illegally cross the border to claim asylum. 

 

If you cross the border illegally you will be arrested. 

 

 

The entire basis of the rest of this is false as the illegal immigrants are refusing to follow the law and present at a LEGAL port of entry to claim asylum and instead choosing to break the law and cross the border illegally. 

 

The laws are broken and reward illegal aliens for sneaking across the border, illegally. 

This does not justify heavily armed militias roaming around, that is what law enforcement is supposed to do. Don't like what they're doing, get yourself a new AG and others in charge. 

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, Thailand Noobie said:

So, Officials want to have illegal immigrants in the US?

Just tear down the border walls, it's so simple and much easier for immigrants get to the US.

I read it as officials are against vigilante action, but maybe that’s just me

 

meanwhile, which officials have come out and said that they support illegal immigration?

 

there’s lots of officials involved... name one supporting illegal immigration.

[Thainesss]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

This does not justify heavily armed militias roaming around, that is what law enforcement is supposed to do.

 

Weird because I specifically remember this galactic debate going on in the USA about Trump wanting money for a wall and border patrol agents and dogs and equipment and everything else under the sun to which you and every other lefty vehemently mocked and obfuscated and supported the Democrats and their pathetic monetary counter offers and removal of Detention beds, all the while screaming from the roof tops about a "Manufactured Crisis" that "isnt real" yet we've got Militia groups catching them by the hundreds? 

 

Weird... 

[Thainesss]

1 minute ago, farcanell said:

there’s lots of officials involved... name one supporting illegal immigration.

 

Any one of them who have ever stated that they want to "abolish ICE" which would be just about every one of them in the current mainstream.

[roobaa01]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

I'll take the word of the New Mexico AG, over yours...

 

"Today's arrest by the FBI indicates clearly that the rule of law should be in the hands of trained law enforcement officials, not armed vigilantes," Balderas said in a statement.

they are good us citizens and in defence against violent illegals the gun usage is correct.

wbr

roobaa01

[stevenl]

Just now, Thainesss said:

 

Weird because I specifically remember this galactic debate going on in the USA about Trump wanting money for a wall and border patrol agents and dogs and equipment and everything else under the sun to which you and every other lefty vehemently mocked and obfuscated and supported the Democrats and their pathetic monetary counter offers and removal of Detention beds, all the while screaming from the roof tops about a "Manufactured Crisis" that "isnt real" yet we've got Militia groups catching them by the hundreds? 

 

Weird... 

No wall but militias instead and you wholeheartedly support this.

 

The USA is driving as far away from a civilized society as can be. And no, don't blame that on illegal immigration, it is solely down to the USA.

[farcanell]

2 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Any one of them who have ever stated that they want to "abolish ICE" which would be just about every one of them in the current mainstream.

Rubbish.

Supporting abolishing ICE does not equate to supporting illegal immigration.

[alanrchase]

 
Any one of them who have ever stated that they want to "abolish ICE" which would be just about every one of them in the current mainstream.

You do spout some disingenuous c$@p.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[55Jay]

17 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Any undocumented (ie., at an official border crossing) migrant that enters the US through areas not official border crossings can still legally claim asylum and have the right to due process of law. Until an immigration court denies such claim and order deportation, the migrant is allowed to remain in the US.

Militia members presuppose undocumented migrants are committing a felony for which militia members lack jurisdiction. There is no basis for citizen's arrest.

Should any of migrants detained and mishandled by militias, and subsequently be successful in seeking asylum, they might have standing to sue the militia. If the federal government failed its responsibility to assure their safety during claim for asylum, it could be sued as well.

One might even carry a legal argument to calling the border militias "domestic terrorists," ironically breaching the Patriot Act.

Said illegals ought to simply march up to an established border crossing and announce their intentions to seek asylum. 

 

Crossing in BF nowhere, up over a fence/barrier, or none at all, then attempting to elude BP, makes things fairly clear.  When they get caught, then they utter the magic word to exploit the system.

[farcanell]

6 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Weird because I specifically remember this galactic debate going on in the USA about Trump wanting money for a wall and border patrol agents and dogs and equipment and everything else under the sun to which you and every other lefty vehemently mocked and obfuscated and supported the Democrats and their pathetic monetary counter offers and removal of Detention beds, all the while screaming from the roof tops about a "Manufactured Crisis" that "isnt real" yet we've got Militia groups catching them by the hundreds? 

 

Weird... 

Rubbish.

 

democrats are not supporting the wall and ripping children from their parents, to put them in cages, whilst supporting the other measures of addressing illegal immigration.

 

Meanwhile, can you support your claim about militia groups catching illegal immigrants by the hundreds, with a link?