How to get deposit money back from resort

[gkudaka]

I put my husband into what i thought was a rehabilitation care resort in Chang Mai 7 months ago. After we arrived at resort  I realized it was not a rehab facility but a care facility. I made an agreement with the owner that my husband be walked and be exercised every day. I had to go home, to the US, to work, but talking to him via skype, tried to monitor the situation. Arrived this month to bring him home and find that is weaker than when he went in -- he is so weak, I can't take him on a plane for the long journey home. I moved him to another elder care resort. So far so good. My problem is the prior facility, refuses to give me back my substantial money. Anyone have a suggestion what I should do -- short of hiring some thugs? I.e., is there legal action I can take to get my money back, with, hopefully, lawyers fees? I'd really like to sue him for breach of contract, but at this point, just want my money. Got a suggestion for an attorney? 

Edited April 26, 2019 by CharlieH
Names removed.

[CharlieH]

I have removed the names from this post for the protection of both poster and forum.

 

6) You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand.

 

 

[ezzra]

Unless you have evidence in writing such as admission and spectrum of care agreement between you and the owner of the resort where it clearly stipulate the proposed and agreed service and care to be provided for your husband and support your claim than yes, you have a good chance to recover said funds, but if nothing was put in writing than it will be quite difficult to recover anything back...

[Dante99]

25 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Unless you have evidence in writing such as admission and spectrum of care agreement between you and the owner of the resort where it clearly stipulate the proposed and agreed service and care to be provided for your husband and support your claim than yes, you have a good chance to recover said funds, but if nothing was put in writing than it will be quite difficult to recover anything back...

Yes it all depends on the written contract you have if you have one.  No one can answer your question without that information.

[NancyL]

You could contact Lanna Lawyers here in Chiang Mai.  They have a couple of native English-speaking lawyers on staff who work with their Thai lawyers.  They have had experience with what I think is the care resort the OP is describing which requires a hefty upfront deposit and has limited capability for rehabilitation and physical therapy.

 

But, as mentioned much depends on the written contract between the OP and the facility and the billing statements.  The best rehabilitation facility in the region bills for physical therapy sessions as a separate line item in their weekly billing statements, so the family can easily see how many sessions their family member receives each week.

[Captain 776]

Contact Siam Legal, its a large law firm from Bangkok with other offices around Thailand.

[davidst01]

Name and shame on trip advisor. people do it about major bangkok private hospitals all the time

[BestB]

Last place i would go is lawyers, as in case like this, it will be very costly and most likely unsuccessful without a court hearing

 

This is going to be very tough because you would have to prove his condition got worse in their care due to their negligence.

Best i would suggest is to try to negotiate to get most or some money back through OCPB, but again this will take time.

 

http://www.ocpb.go.th/index.php?filename=index

 

Somehow you need to have some kind of proof or evidence his condition has worsened while in their care

[justin case]

any "english" speaking law firm, even they cannot practise, will cost you an arm and a legg

[NickJ]

Seems to me that any kind of facility like this would need to have a license. I would get in touch with the The Medical Board of Thailand. 

Also Justin case is correct. There are only a very very few foreign lawyers that can argue before the court here. Most foreign lawyers charge a fortune and have very junior Thai lawyers argue case in court. I would guess you have emails that could use to help make your case and also bills.

[NancyL]

Oh, I don't think this case would ever go to court.  If the OP has appropriate documents, the mere act of hiring an English-speaking lawyer who had dealt with the owner (also a native English speaker) before is probably going to be enough to get a settlement.  That is if it's the place I'm thinking of.

[rumak]

13 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Oh, I don't think this case would ever go to court.  If the OP has appropriate documents, the mere act of hiring an English-speaking lawyer who had dealt with the owner (also a native English speaker) before is probably going to be enough to get a settlement.  That is if it's the place I'm thinking of.

have you PM  the OP ?    Or have they contacted you ?    Seems like what i would do

[from the home of CC]

as in the west, to get a medical practitioner to go against another medical practitioner in a legal dispute is damn near impossible - same as lawyers and engineers, you just don't rock the club..

[Tomahawk21]

Thais never give money back.................never 

[faraday]

11 minutes ago, Tomahawk21 said:

Thais never give money back.................never 

Complete rubbish.

[gkudaka]

Thanks for your replies. I do have proof -- his contract, which demands 2-3 monds deposit that I did not sign, my addendum indicating what activities must be included in their Rehabilitation services, skype calls proving these plan was not executed, emails proving paid therapy session were added after they stopped giving him walks, their arbitrarily changing his medication without doctor's advice. their losing his medical records, their not answering an emergency call button... even something as simple as the bills total are inaccurate.  

[gkudaka]

Per geoffbezoz question as to why I left him here -- I'm younger than my husband, and still working. In the US, we had placed him in a nursing home which he went into walking, and came out in a wheelchair. His primary care doctor is a gerontologist specialist who then placed in him in a rehab facility which did wonders for putting him back together, but our insurance only covered 3 months. To continue his rehab at this New England Rehab facility would have cost $11,600 a month for a shared room. If we did that, the problem would be that we would empty out our savings, thereby leaving nothing for me, the younger spouse.

We had been in Thailand 5 years ago. He got a massive infection and ended up hospitalized, after which we rented an appt for 4 months. During this time, he walked every day, and by the end of our overstaying our visa, was in great shape. That visit lead me to believe if he was again in Thailand -- he likes warm weather -- and walked every day, his health would improve.

You ask a valid question because the majority of people at this care facility have turned over power of attorney to other relatives who have left them here to die. Last month, 4 people died at this facility, and 2 others moved out to the same one I moved husband, causing the facility owner to lose a lot of money. 
 

[tigerbeer]

with all due respect, I think it would a better idea to see how you can make him better with perhaps some medical treatment rather than spending money on lawyers in the prospect of getting some money back. Look towards moving forward rather than anything else. like many have said here, I too share their sentiments that  you probably would get nothing back from a lawsuit. 

[elektrified]

17 hours ago, faraday said:

Complete rubbish.

I agree. I have even gotten back over 40,000 Baht from a hospital when I was not satisfied with a procedure.

[DaRoadrunner]

35 minutes ago, elektrified said:

I agree. I have even gotten back over 40,000 Baht from a hospital when I was not satisfied with a procedure.

How?

[Tomahawk21]

23 hours ago, faraday said:

Complete rubbish.

i know a Thai lady who conned another Thai lady out of 12 million baht that women has now been sent to jail for 12 years. the woman who worked the con has given the money to her mom to to hide the woman who got conned can get the lady out of jail if she returns 5m they never even came back with a counter offer, the family said no way and have left there daughter to rot in jail. family come first right ? after money !

Edited April 29, 2019 by Tomahawk21

[Tomahawk21]

6 hours ago, elektrified said:

I agree. I have even gotten back over 40,000 Baht from a hospital when I was not satisfied with a procedure.

only cos a law suit may have cost them a lot more, their not that stupid

[NancyL]

Yes, and I know of a case where a doctor quietly paid the hospital bill of a patient who had to be readmitted to hospital because the doctor had overlooked prescribing much-needed take-home antibiotics after the initial surgical procedure.  Thai doctor, western patient. No lawyers involved, just some "reasonable" discussion with a retired western doctor wise to Thai ways involved.  Everyone saved face.

[elektrified]

16 hours ago, Tomahawk21 said:

only cos a law suit may have cost them a lot more, their not that stupid

Not at all. It was not negligence.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 12:11 PM, faraday said:

Complete rubbish.

Agreed. I've never been refused a deposit return.

[fhickson]

Q: What's a deposit?

 

A: It's something to keep you around when you want to leave.

[moontang]

My parents looked at an assisted living place and the deposit was 20 million THB, equivalent, and 90,000 a month for rent on a 130 sm bungalow... and medical services were extra... not glitzy, at all. 

[gkudaka]

Believe it or not, I do exist, and am not a troll... I do not have this page bookmarked, because i have lurked on this site for years. I find a lot of discussions here from older US/EU men talking about their young Thai wives or Thai-in-laws, and problems with their wives, in-laws, money, visas, etc. Not subjects I have feel compelled to follow.  I asked a legitimate question regarding a lawyer, and your responses seem to talk about everything but lawyers, including why I want to get my money back from a guy just like you -- an ex-pat from the UK who moved here, married a Thai, and set up a resort business. When he failed to compete with other resorts, he moved to the eldercare business. His wife dumped him, and he has to pay her because she holds the resorts papers.  He's losing clients, like myself and two others who left within the same period, plus several who died while in his care. It's particularly interesting as in your archives, there is talk of lawyers and a recommendation for an English speaking lawyer, plus comments that the English speaking lawyers tend to be the overpriced front person while the real one who do the work are Thais, and how the thais have a different system than we in the west do. Now I suppose if i was a white guy talking about how i'm trying to help out my thai wife, you might take a different approach to my post -- I wouldn't be accused of being a troll. News flash, guys! It's a big world out there, and there are lots of different folks who are reading these posts. that is the power of the internet, and I assume is what a good forum would do. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by gkudaka

[scorecard]

On 4/27/2019 at 10:14 PM, NickJ said:

Seems to me that any kind of facility like this would need to have a license. I would get in touch with the The Medical Board of Thailand. 

Also Justin case is correct. There are only a very very few foreign lawyers that can argue before the court here. Most foreign lawyers charge a fortune and have very junior Thai lawyers argue case in court. I would guess you have emails that could use to help make your case and also bills.

And did the OP check in advance is the 'resort' had any form of accreditation / licensing? Seems to me very normal to check such things before using such a place and before leaving her husband there and going home.

[scorecard]

On 5/2/2019 at 2:34 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Agreed. I've never been refused a deposit return.

You mean deposits at health facilities, or?