How many countries are not issuing income letters anymore

[Icedoctor]

My first post here.

i am a dane and my retirement visa expires may 22 and I have to leave Thailand because my embassy is not very cooperative.

I wonder how many countries besides Denmark refuse to give income letters now. I heard about US, UK and Australia but are there more ?

its a bit of a shame because I have a good pension well over 100.000 baht but most of my funds are in houses in Denmark, not easy to capitalize with such a short notice to have 800.000 baht in a thai bank

Have a nice day to all

 

[luckyluke]

Only the countries you mentioned. 

 

Apparently the Danish Embassy is still issuing a Letter of Income if the income is from a state pension. 

[Icedoctor]

By the way the immigration officer here in Chon Buri told me that if I give up my retirement visa now I could NEVER NEVER apply for a retirement visa again !

wonder how many danes forced to leave Thailnd ?

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Icedoctor said:

By the way the immigration officer here in Chon Buri told me that if I give up my retirement visa now I could NEVER NEVER apply for a retirement visa again !

That is a completely false statement by the officer. There nothing states that you cannot apply for again after letting the one you have now end.

[glegolo]

9 minutes ago, Icedoctor said:

By the way the immigration officer here in Chon Buri told me that if I give up my retirement visa now I could NEVER NEVER apply for a retirement visa again !

wonder how many danes forced to leave Thailnd ?

did you notice the earlier post.... your embassy is doing the letters again, you are good, as I understand it...

 

glegolo

[malibukid]

15 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is a completely false statement by the officer. There nothing states that you cannot apply for again after letting the one you have noow end.

just goes to show how messed up these IO's are.  no one on the same page and they do not know what the heck is going on.

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, Icedoctor said:

By the way the immigration officer here in Chon Buri told me that if I give up my retirement visa now I could NEVER NEVER apply for a retirement visa again !

wonder how many danes forced to leave Thailnd ?

He may have meant your expired Non-Imm O stay could not be extended further, and a new Non-Imm-O would be obligated. 

[CMNightRider]

I would like to know the real story behind some of the embassies not issuing income letters anymore.  There are a lot of retirees in Thailand that are in the same situation as "icedoctor."  It is too bad these few embassy officials decided to abandon their citizens.  

 

These retirees have good monthly incomes but their funds are in real estate, stock market, or they have no interest in participating in immigrations Thai banking scheme.  I wish you well icedoctor, and the many others who are being forced out of Thailand.

 

As to the few smug posters who are amused by their fellow westerners being forced to leave Thailand, please leave you lame comments to yourself. ????    

 

 

[marcusarelus]

15 hours ago, glegolo said:

did you notice the earlier post.... your embassy is doing the letters again, you are good, as I understand it...

 

glegolo

That was my understanding.  The OP just needs to go get another letter and no problem.

Edited May 1, 2019 by marcusarelus

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

I would like to know the real story behind some of the embassies not issuing income letters anymore.  There are a lot of retirees in Thailand that are in the same situation as "icedoctor."  It is too bad these few embassy officials decided to abandon their citizens.  

It would appear to be an Embassy decision that likely was prompted by immigration asking them to truly verify the 'income' their letters were attesting to.

The Embassies decided this was beyond their capabilities and withdrew the service. 

[Deerculler]

CMNightRider, My country is still issuing the letter.

Those come from the countries who are not issuing have my have my support. 

It is one hell of a situation to be in.

I can only hope that an answer can be found to help. 

Goodluck.

[The Deerhunter]

26 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

I would like to know the real story behind some of the embassies not issuing income letters anymore.  There are a lot of retirees in Thailand that are in the same situation as "icedoctor."  It is too bad these few embassy officials decided to abandon their citizens.  

 

These retirees have good monthly incomes but their funds are in real estate, stock market, or they have no interest in participating in immigrations Thai banking scheme.  I wish you well icedoctor, and the many others who are being forced out of Thailand.

 

As to the few smug posters who are amused by their fellow westerners being forced to leave Thailand, please leave you lame comments to yourself. ????    

 

 

My circumstances are more or less the same as ice doctor. However I had already made the decision to return to my home country for a variety of reasons in addition to the immigration inconveniences. I managed to get one last extension in which takes me through until I can conveniently pack up and leave. I'm very fortunate that my circumstances allow me to return home with minimal inconvenience. There are many people who are not in as lucky as situation as I find myself. I feel very strongly for those people. I last extension is important to me because the alternative 60-day Visa would not have allowed me to do everything I need to do. My Thai wife actually prefers life in our other country. A lot more peace of mind than we have here at the moment.

Edited May 1, 2019 by The Deerhunter
Clarification

[userrhjsghgkjfd]

The Dutch Embassy gives only the letter with confirmation of income if the income comes from Holland.

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

He may have meant your expired Non-Imm O stay could not be extended further, and a new Non-Imm-O would be obligated. 

Yes, while it is a valid observation that the Immigration Offices do vary in their interpretation of the regulations, it is also a valid observation that much can be lost in translation. And this is true on both the part of the foreigner and the Thai Immigration officer.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

It would appear to be an Embassy decision that likely was prompted by immigration asking them to truly verify the 'income' their letters were attesting to.

The Embassies decided this was beyond their capabilities and withdrew the service. 

If that was the case why only 3 out of 80 embassies?  Seems a bit odd. 

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

If that was the case why only 3 out of 80 embassies?  Seems a bit odd. 

Some Embassies do actually verify the claimed income. And presumably some don't worry about it. It is inconsistent.

The USA and Oz simply required an affidavit or stat dec. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by jacko45k

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Some Embassies do actually verify the claimed income. And presumably some don't worry about it. It is inconsistent.

The USA and Oz simply required an affidavit or stat dec. 

No mention of the Brits?  Seems odd to me that only 3 out of 80.  I don't think Thai Immigration asked for anything new based on the actions of all the the embassies taken as a group. 

[4evermaat]

33 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

I would like to know the real story behind some of the embassies not issuing income letters anymore.  There are a lot of retirees in Thailand that are in the same situation as "icedoctor."  It is too bad these few embassy officials decided to abandon their citizens.  

......

 

21 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

It would appear to be an Embassy decision that likely was prompted by immigration asking them to truly verify the 'income' their letters were attesting to.

The Embassies decided this was beyond their capabilities and withdrew the service. 

 

Jacko45k is spot on.  But there are also some political and monetary policy reasons for it.  

 

41 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

.....

 

As to the few smug posters who are amused by their fellow westerners being forced to leave Thailand, please leave you lame comments to yourself. ????    

 

 

 

The Western expat is still valuable, but just not as novel as 20, 10, even 5 years ago.  The majority of the basic infrastructure has been built.  China is chipping in with high speed rails and a huge middle class that needs somewhere to vacation.

 

Every country has a right to protect their own interests.  If you really look at the overall situation, did they really change the law or just how they change how they enforced existing policies?  I don't think that is being smug; it is being honest about the immigration policy.  How many retirees were playing the loophole hoping it would never be closed??

 

With that said, @Sheryl made a good point in another thread that the 40k/65k in the embassy letter could be Gross income (pre-taxed et al).  But if thai immigration want to see those monthly 40/65k receipts as a net deposit with monthly method, then that can significantly affect some expat's ability to qualify, especially taking into account exchange rates + taxes.

 

 

[Sheryl]

 
The Western expat is still valuable, but just not as novel as 20, 10, even 5 years ago.  The majority of the basic infrastructure has been built.  China is chipping in with high speed rails and a huge middle class that needs somewhere to vacation.
 
Every country has a right to protect their own interests.  If you really look at the overall situation, did they really change the law or just how they change how they enforced existing policies?  I don't think that is being smug; it is being honest about the immigration policy.  How many retirees were playing the loophole hoping it would never be closed??
 
With that said, [mention=14639]Sheryl[/mention] made a good point in another thread that the 40k/65k in the embassy letter could be Gross income (pre-taxed et al).  But if thai immigration want to see those monthly 40/65k receipts as a net deposit with monthly method, then that can significantly affect some expat's ability to qualify, especially taking into account exchange rates + taxes.
 
 

Since the minimum was always in baht exchange rates don't enter into it but taxes and health insurance deductions do. Americans for example often have medicare premium of about 5000 baht deducted at the source.

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[gk10002000]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

I would like to know the real story behind some of the embassies not issuing income letters anymore.  There are a lot of retirees in Thailand that are in the same situation as "icedoctor."  It is too bad these few embassy officials decided to abandon their citizens.  

 

These retirees have good monthly incomes but their funds are in real estate, stock market, or they have no interest in participating in immigrations Thai banking scheme.  I wish you well icedoctor, and the many others who are being forced out of Thailand.

 

As to the few smug posters who are amused by their fellow westerners being forced to leave Thailand, please leave you lame comments to yourself. ????    

 

 

Normally things like that in the USA are solved or solvable by simply offering contract services.  Some company forms an agreement with the US embassy, agrees to some range of criteria to investigate and certify as appropriate the income is real and proper.  Of course the service charges to expat.  But no pressure has been put on the US embassy or US State Department to do anything about the situation

Edited May 1, 2019 by gk10002000
add

[SammyJ]

2 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

I would like to know the real story behind some of the embassies not issuing income letters anymore.  There are a lot of retirees in Thailand that are in the same situation as "icedoctor."  It is too bad these few embassy officials decided to abandon their citizens.  

 

These retirees have good monthly incomes but their funds are in real estate, stock market, or they have no interest in participating in immigrations Thai banking scheme.  I wish you well icedoctor, and the many others who are being forced out of Thailand.

 

As to the few smug posters who are amused by their fellow westerners being forced to leave Thailand, please leave you lame comments to yourself. ????    

 

 

From what I have read from the US embassy and read more on a whole variety of sites and from a wide variety of posters, the "story" is really quite simple--of course, one could argue that our home countries' embassies could be more helpful, but they simply have indicated that they will not take on the responsibility of verifying that the incomes indicated on an income affidavit are accurate.  

 

Thai immigration knew for a very long time that many of the income affidavits submitted were not truthful, and finally said those countries issuing them must verify the amounts listed--the US embassy and some others declined, so they stopped issuing affidavits altogether.

[4evermaat]

 

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Since the minimum was always in baht exchange rates don't enter into it but taxes and health insurance deductions do. Americans for example often have medicare premium of about 5000 baht deducted at the source.

Hmmm.   The exchange rate would only count once a year (at the time of obtaining the affidavit).  But now if immigration want to see net 40/65k each month in a Thai bank account, any significant change in rates could bring one or more months below the minimum.   Doesn't one month below the minimum invalidate all the months before it?  (meaning the applicant must start over from the next good month forward)?

 

What would be nice is if they used an AVERAGE of the last 12 months (or whatever 12 months are used to prove monthly income method); a mean average would give the extension applicant more flexibility.  Especially those with investments and such that may only be able to pull funds a few times per year. 

 

Whether Thai logic would allow a mean average to be used....I wouldn't hold my breath.

[dotpoom]

Just wondering...will the answer to your question help your situation in any way?

[perconrad]

18 hours ago, Icedoctor said:

My first post here.

i am a dane and my retirement visa expires may 22 and I have to leave Thailand because my embassy is not very cooperative.

I wonder how many countries besides Denmark refuse to give income letters now. I heard about US, UK and Australia but are there more ?

its a bit of a shame because I have a good pension well over 100.000 baht but most of my funds are in houses in Denmark, not easy to capitalize with such a short notice to have 800.000 baht in a thai bank

Have a nice day to all

I am Danish too.

 

The Danish Embassy in Bangkok do again since some months make income letters again.

 

Before we used the tax return from the former year, but now we shall have the government or private pension company to send proof of the pension for the actually year in English directly to the embassy. It will cost about thb 1000 pr pension company the embassy has to verify. I myself will need the government pension and 1 of my 4 private pensions to come over the thb 65.000 pr month.

If you send the pensions letter in danish yourself to the embassy it will be much much more expensive.

 

But you can see yourself on the embassy homepage, it is only in Danish:

 

http://thailand.um.dk/da/rejse-og-ophold/borgerservice/attester/

[khastan]

Yes, while it is a valid observation that the Immigration Offices do vary in their interpretation of the regulations, it is also a valid observation that much can be lost in translation. And this is true on both the part of the foreigner and the Thai Immigration officer.

Why do you think it is a valid observation that a foreigner is partly at fault because of translation when these same rules have been officially interpreted and translated by Thai Immigration themselves .

Edited May 1, 2019 by khastan

[Thailand]

3 minutes ago, khastan said:

Yes, while it is a valid observation that the Immigration Offices do vary in their interpretation of the regulations, it is also a valid observation that much can be lost in translation. And this is true on both the part of the foreigner and the Thai Immigration officer.

Why do you think it is a valid observation that a foreigner is partly at fault because of translation when these same rules have been officially interpreted by Thai Immigration themselves .

The problem is that the "rules" are interpreted differently by almost every immigration office. No consistency, maybe the new head will actually resolve the problems but highly unlikely.

[Jingthing]

He may have meant your expired Non-Imm O stay could not be extended further, and a new Non-Imm-O would be obligated. 

Yes that is definitely what he meant. Yet another case of lost in translation.

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[Jingthing]

CMNightRider, My country is still issuing the letter.

Those come from the countries who are not issuing have my have my support. 

It is one hell of a situation to be in.

I can only hope that an answer can be found to help. 

Goodluck.

Your support and 5 dollah will get a latte at Starbucks.

Just being silly.

It seems hopeless at this point.

I am very angry about it. All I want is to get a letter for my US social security pension. I don't believe my own government embassy cannot verify that. I can prove it in 2 minutes max.

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[ThomasThBKK]

The big difference between those countries and other countries like germany is the pension system. 

 

Pretty much every german has a state pension and/or riesterrente and they have access to that system from their embassy. 

 

They can't verify your other income either that is in private vehicles. 

 

Us/uk/australia is mostly privately managed pension which they simply lack access too. 

US has IRA, 401k, profit sharing plans, cash balance plans, pension equity plans.. Where you select your investments yourself and i doubt they have access to all that stuff in the embassy. 

[Jingthing]

The problem is that the "rules" are interpreted differently by almost every immigration office. No consistency, maybe the new head will actually resolve the problems but highly unlikely.

Definitely not.

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