Pattaya City property tax

[Guderian]

Just got a letter from City Hall about property taxes. Went to see law office that does my accounts, they called City Hall, told I must go there in person to be told how much to pay. They refused to give the accountants any information about amounts, back years, etc.

 

I asked in the village office, and yes, it's property taxes. How many people in this village pay this I ask? Oh, I think you must be the only one. Why me? Shrug of shoulders.

 

I checked Google and found lots of conflicting information, but this seems to be the most relevant (it's archived so I can't simply post this on it):

 

 

Does anybody have any up-to-date experience and information on this tax? I don't want to walk into City Hall totally unprepared. How much is it likely to be, how many back years will they demand, and why am I the only person being caught by this tax in a village with over 160 residential properties?

 

[FracturedRabbit]

Is your house owned by a company?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[watcharacters]

 

Governments show the greatest creativity in finding new areas for taxation.

[Guderian]

57 minutes ago, FracturedRabbit said:

Is your house owned by a company?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Yes, the GF isn't exactly a legal eagle but she thinks I only have to pay one year. I'll believe that when I see it. I don't much want to visit a tank full of hungry Muang Pattaya piranhas without having some idea of what they should be asking for.

[FracturedRabbit]

We have the same. It is an annual tax on your company. I have no idea how they calculate it; just turn up and pay! You do get a proper receipt.

 

Houses owned in a Thai name don't have to pay.

[Guderian]

15 hours ago, FracturedRabbit said:

We have the same. It is an annual tax on your company. I have no idea how they calculate it; just turn up and pay! You do get a proper receipt.

 

Houses owned in a Thai name don't have to pay.

How much did you have to pay?

 

In the archived thread I linked to in the OP somebody said that he owns a big house with a swimming pool on a big piece of land yet only pays 5K Baht/year. Last night I was speaking to another resident of the village and he said that he got this letter around 18 months ago. He said they wanted 7K or 8K Baht/year and as he'd lived there around 13 years at the time they were demanding something like 100K Baht. His house is a small, 2-bedroom bungalow with no land other than what the house stands on, just a small driveway and patio, no garden or anything. How does one person with a mansion pay 5K and somebody with a very modest house have to fork out 8K? This is what I need to understand before I enter the lion's den.

[Guderian]

Just another thought - I've lived in my house for coming up to 8 years and this is the first time they've asked for the tax. Evidently they're not in a desperate hurry for it. So what happens if I just ignore the letter? I gather there's a 200 Baht/year late payment fine, but that's the only sanction I'v heard of so far.

[Pilotman]

we submit accounts and pay the tax every year.  I am surprised that City Hall hasn't got to you before this.   

[Pilotman]

15 minutes ago, Guderian said:

Just another thought - I've lived in my house for coming up to 8 years and this is the first time they've asked for the tax. Evidently they're not in a desperate hurry for it. So what happens if I just ignore the letter? I gather there's a 200 Baht/year late payment fine, but that's the only sanction I'v heard of so far.

One day they will demand it paid immediately and also fine you. Could be a lot more costly than the figure you quote.  Get a local, 'connected' accountant to help you. 

[Pilotman]

25 minutes ago, Guderian said:

How much did you have to pay?

 

In the archived thread I linked to in the OP somebody said that he owns a big house with a swimming pool on a big piece of land yet only pays 5K Baht/year. Last night I was speaking to another resident of the village and he said that he got this letter around 18 months ago. He said they wanted 7K or 8K Baht/year and as he'd lived there around 13 years at the time they were demanding something like 100K Baht. His house is a small, 2-bedroom bungalow with no land other than what the house stands on, just a small driveway and patio, no garden or anything. How does one person with a mansion pay 5K and somebody with a very modest house have to fork out 8K? This is what I need to understand before I enter the lion's den.

Mine is a 3 bed with pool on a reasonably sized plot.  I have paid 8K tax for the past 3 years. 

[Rimmer]

It's like the UK council rates, doesn't make any difference if it's company or Thai owned everyone from the small mom and pop shops to the big villa have to pay it, (or will eventually)  only recently have they become serious about collecting it.

 

In the Hue Yai area you will get a sticker with a 'thumbs up' logo on it to stick on your gate or letter box when it has been paid.   

The people at Hue Yai City hall have this year started to use Google earth to view  the property when you go in to pay it and see if you are lying about the size of the house or swimming pool and plot size.

 

If you have not paid it before on a new house you will need the building permit and chanut, also house book,  they will back date to  when it was first occupied, they can and do, back date the payments and they can and do fine you for not paying previously.   Best to send your wife or partner to discuss and negotiate. 

 

We have been paying this tax now for quite a few years,  In Hue Yai It seems they don't keep very good records one has to take the previous year bill and the current payment will be based on that.

 

I believe some developments / villages pay it on your behalf, that is not to say they will not be happy to take your payment again. Check with the Juristic people to see if is being paid.

 

 

 

 

[Guderian]

40 minutes ago, Rimmer said:

It's like the UK council rates, doesn't make any difference if it's company or Thai owned everyone from the small mom and pop shops to the big villa have to pay it, (or will eventually)  only recently have they become serious about collecting it.

 

In the Hue Yai area you will get a sticker with a 'thumbs up' logo on it to stick on your gate or letter box when it has been paid.   

The people at Hue Yai City hall have this year started to use Google earth to view  the property when you go in to pay it and see if you are lying about the size of the house or swimming pool and plot size.

 

If you have not paid it before on a new house you will need the building permit and chanut, also house book,  they will back date to  when it was first occupied, they can and do, back date the payments and they can and do fine you for not paying previously.   Best to send your wife or partner to discuss and negotiate. 

 

We have been paying this tax now for quite a few years,  In Hue Yai It seems they don't keep very good records one has to take the previous year bill and the current payment will be based on that.

 

I believe some developments / villages pay it on your behalf, that is not to say they will not be happy to take your payment again. Check with the Juristic people to see if is being paid.

 

 

 

 

 

Our village definitely doesn't pay it for you, the maintenance fee simply isn't big enough, plus you'd see it in the annual accounts.

 

Interesting that you say everybody has to pay it. The guy I spoke to in the village last night put his house in a company name when he bought it as he hadn't at that time met his future Thai wife. Having had to fork out 100K Baht+ to cover the back tax he's now decided to transfer the house into his wife's name as his lawyer has assured him that properties in a Thai name don't have to pay this. He's almost completed this process, also moaning of course that he got stuck for 130K Baht in property transfer tax. He'll be almightily cheesed off if she ends up having to pay this "council tax" as well.

 

I wonder what a lawyer would charge to come to the meeting with me? The GF isn't going to be comfortable arguing the toss with City Hall apparatchiks.

 

It also makes me wonder that when I bought the house it had been lived in for two years but this tax had never been demanded or paid. The lawyer who dealt with the property purchase for me declared that the property was free of debts which evidently wasn't the case. Surely there must be a case for suing the lawyer for making a mistake?

[Guderian]

3 hours ago, Pilotman said:

we submit accounts and pay the tax every year.  I am surprised that City Hall hasn't got to you before this.   

If you read my OP you'll see that the first thing I did was to go and visit the accountants. They said that it's nothing to do with the company accounts and they can't sort it out for me, as Rimmer says above it's evidently some sort of Pattaya council tax, nothing to do with the company. So from what you've written it looks like you haven't received the letter yet and can look forward to that some time in the future.

[Guderian]

And another thought - the first I ever heard of this tax was a couple of years ago when I read it in the archived thread in my OP. Blimey, I thought, let's hope they don't start collecting that in Pattaya City itself where I live. Now they are collecting it, if slowly and inefficiently.

 

So how many other taxes and impositions that none of us currently know about are lurking in the Pattaya undergrowth, ready to bite us in the future? The lawyers are evidently clueless and it sounds like City Hall is free to invent this sort of thing as and when it likes.

[White Christmas13]

21 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

Governments show the greatest creativity in finding new areas for taxation.

No that happen only in Nanny states

[Rimmer]

I should add that my post above is based on dealings with Hue Yai.

 

My accountant advised me to ignore the original demand note, she was wrong and that was bad advice, cost me a small fine.

I have friends who have been advised by their lawyer to ignore it as well, regret they are ill informed and giving bad advice.

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, Guderian said:

If you read my OP you'll see that the first thing I did was to go and visit the accountants. They said that it's nothing to do with the company accounts and they can't sort it out for me, as Rimmer says above it's evidently some sort of Pattaya council tax, nothing to do with the company. So from what you've written it looks like you haven't received the letter yet and can look forward to that some time in the future.

Not so, you just connected with rubbish accountants. Oh, and I dont live within a City limits. 

Edited May 4, 2019 by Pilotman

[Guderian]

I was speaking to somebody else, this guy doesn't live in the same village as me, and he also got the letter a year or so ago. He went to City Hall with his Thai wife and they told him they wanted 6000 Baht/year backdated however many years. The wife apparently went into histrionics, wailing and crying, and after a while they calmed her down and agreed to reduce the tax to 3000 Baht/year.

 

So evidently this tax is not a fixed amount but is open to negotiation. Presumably that's why they don't send you a bill but insist on you visiting them. It all sounds very dodgy and under-the-table to me anyway, the lawyer of one of the guys I spoke with thinks that the guys at City Hall are pulling a fast one and pocketing some of the money.

[Rimmer]

27 minutes ago, Guderian said:

So evidently this tax is not a fixed amount but is open to negotiation.

That is exactly correct and why I suggested your wife or partner should go in person and negotiate

[Guderian]

1 hour ago, Rimmer said:

That is exactly correct and why I suggested your wife or partner should go in person and negotiate

Only in Thailand.

 

I knew one of the big Gogo bar owners a long time ago and he told me he got called in by the TRD as they didn't think he was paying enough income tax. He took his accountant and they haggled a bit and he ended up having to fork out a bit more cash but it was nothing compared with his income. He said he went into the meeting sweating and came out laughing.

 

That's OK for somebody who owns a multi-mlllion Baht business, but now us minions are supposed to do the same thing? What next, negotiate the price of your retirement extension? 

 

[Guderian]

One more point of interest: my Thai builder told me that he just paid 6000 Baht tax to City Hall for his property. I can't see any reason why he'd have the property in a company name, so that means houses in Thai names will also be subject to the tax. I wonder if they'll get on to condos next?

[baansgr]

23 hours ago, Guderian said:

 

Our village definitely doesn't pay it for you, the maintenance fee simply isn't big enough, plus you'd see it in the annual accounts.

 

Interesting that you say everybody has to pay it. The guy I spoke to in the village last night put his house in a company name when he bought it as he hadn't at that time met his future Thai wife. Having had to fork out 100K Baht+ to cover the back tax he's now decided to transfer the house into his wife's name as his lawyer has assured him that properties in a Thai name don't have to pay this. He's almost completed this process, also moaning of course that he got stuck for 130K Baht in property transfer tax. He'll be almightily cheesed off if she ends up having to pay this "council tax" as well.

 

I wonder what a lawyer would charge to come to the meeting with me? The GF isn't going to be comfortable arguing the toss with City Hall apparatchiks.

 

It also makes me wonder that when I bought the house it had been lived in for two years but this tax had never been demanded or paid. The lawyer who dealt with the property purchase for me declared that the property was free of debts which evidently wasn't the case. Surely there must be a case for suing the lawyer for making a mistake?

Thats about as stupid as it gets....transfer fees from company to Thai name about 8.3%, fees to close company plus he wont own or have control over the property just to save a few k a year....the man and his layer are idiots, will take him 30 years or more to get the money back

[Guderian]

46 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Thats about as stupid as it gets....transfer fees from company to Thai name about 8.3%, fees to close company plus he wont own or have control over the property just to save a few k a year....the man and his layer are idiots, will take him 30 years or more to get the money back

Especially if what Rimmer says about the tax being applicable to properties in a Thai name is correct, he'll still end up having to shell out 8K/year to City Hall. My Thai builder seems to support that. 

[Guderian]

Another thing that has struck me here is that only Rimmer and Pilotman seem to be paying the property tax, of all the expats on the Pattaya forum living in houses in a company name. Or are people just ambivalent and couldn't care less?

 

I don't much care about the 6K or 8K per year that it will cost, but I do object to them back-dating it and fining you for not having paid it previously when they've never asked for it. In English law that would not just be using the famous Henry VIII powers, but seriously abusing them too.

[seeyoujimmy]

On 5/5/2019 at 4:40 PM, Guderian said:

Another thing that has struck me here is that only Rimmer and Pilotman seem to be paying the property tax, of all the expats on the Pattaya forum living in houses in a company name. Or are people just ambivalent and couldn't care less?

 

I don't much care about the 6K or 8K per year that it will cost, but I do object to them back-dating it and fining you for not having paid it previously when they've never asked for it. In English law that would not just be using the famous Henry VIII powers, but seriously abusing them too.

I stay in huay yai and i have been paying it for a few years, this year was about 1300B which was a few hundred less than last year 3 bed house about 140sqm land size about 620sqm no pool.

[KittenKong]

On 5/5/2019 at 4:40 PM, Guderian said:

Another thing that has struck me here is that only Rimmer and Pilotman seem to be paying the property tax, of all the expats on the Pattaya forum living in houses in a company name. Or are people just ambivalent and couldn't care less?

I know a few people who have paid it. All in company-name houses. For some of them it amounted to many tens of thousands of Baht.

[Guderian]

12 hours ago, seeyoujimmy said:

I stay in huay yai and i have been paying it for a few years, this year was about 1300B which was a few hundred less than last year 3 bed house about 140sqm land size about 620sqm no pool.

I don't think anybody would complain about having to pay that amount. The friend I mentioned earlier who is paying 8K/year has a house less than 100 sqm on land that's probably not much more than 200 sqm.

 

My place is quite a bit larger than that (440 sqm of land) but still my Thai builder when I spoke to him yesterday thought the tax should probably be 5K to 6K/year.

 

The system here in Pattaya seems to be completely random.

[scubascuba3]

When you go to City Hall, ask them to show how the fee they quote is calculated. If no back up, don't pay it

[Guderian]

On 5/7/2019 at 1:53 PM, scubascuba3 said:

When you go to City Hall, ask them to show how the fee they quote is calculated. If no back up, don't pay it

I gather from what people who've been there have told me that they just have a spreadsheet set up. I guess they just enter your details and you get a print out showing what you owe. The gophers you're dealing with probably don't have much idea about what goes on inside.

 

A friend suspects that the actual tax should probably be around 5K or 6K/year, but Pattaya City Hall is coming up with figures of 8K or 10K or more as somebody is creaming the extra off the top. Who knows?

[scubascuba3]

I gather from what people who've been there have told me that they just have a spreadsheet set up. I guess they just enter your details and you get a print out showing what you owe. The gophers you're dealing with probably don't have much idea about what goes on inside.
 
A friend suspects that the actual tax should probably be around 5K or 6K/year, but Pattaya City Hall is coming up with figures of 8K or 10K or more as somebody is creaming the extra off the top. Who knows?

Spreadsheets have simple calculations going on, you'd think they would be able to tell you the calculation, but i imagine they will act like you've asked for something really strange