5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

A bit like Brexiteers on this thread. To hear them talk you would think that their views were shared bu every UK citizen, "We, the people..." no mate, currently less than half of the people.

Exactly. 17 million - which is going down each day - out of 65 million. and they call it democracy. Balls to that.

7 minutes ago, oilinki said:

.. but yet the 48% of the voters were fully excluded from the negotiations until recently, when it became obvious that the UK government, which has only listened the extremists, could not make the deal to go through. And now the UK government is talking with another extremist on the other side. How messy and silly is that situation?

 

If the yellow wests are mainly farmers, I suppose they are getting busy with the farming activities. Some radicals and trouble makers might still be causing havoc, for the sake of causing havoc. 

48% of the electorate voted remain what could they bring to the negotiation table other than "We should stay"

Your last paragraph is fudge, it ignores your claim that the EU makes compromises and that minorities are listened to and treated well. What seems to me to be the greater truth is they are listened to then ignored. 

The problem is the government keeps trying to manage leavers expectations  by promising things that everybody with an ounce of knowledge on the situation are not going to happen or visa-versa.

 

At some point either a PV or revoke art 50 are going to happen in spite of all protestations that they won't.

 

   

 

1 minute ago, aright said:

48% of the electorate voted remain what could they bring to the negotiation table other than "We should stay"

Your last paragraph is fudge, it ignores your claim that the EU makes compromises and that minorities are listened to and treated well. What seems to me to be the greater truth is they are listened to then ignored. 

You are correct on this, remainers only have one objective, remain. Whereas Brexiteers have multiple objectives, "Leave, no deal, I really don't care about the consequences, Nigel and Boris have promised me it'll be all gravy anyway", " leave with a deal which makes Britain the net beneficiary, if the EU don't like it they can lump it" and, for many Brexiteers, they are now saying, "Actually it was all a horrible mistake, can we try again?".

Brexit has wreaked the UK international standing.

 

 

11 minutes ago, aright said:

48% of the electorate voted remain what could they bring to the negotiation table other than "We should stay"

Your last paragraph is fudge, it ignores your claim that the EU makes compromises and that minorities are listened to and treated well. What seems to me to be the greater truth is they are listened to then ignored. 

17 milion out of 65 million population voted leave. Hardly a majority.  Which means in simple words that the leavers are undemocratic in trying to push through a deal.

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense, time to accept that brexiteers are the ones responsible for this mess and stop blaming others.

 

I know, won't happen, always somebody else's fault.

Amply supported in real time as I have explained before therefore you should either put up or shut up.

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Amply supported in real time as I have explained before therefore you should either put up or shut up.

A little Englanders response.

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

Brexit has wreaked the UK international standing.

 

 

Edited by a got-it-wrong former Tory chancellor who no doubt still has political ambitions in the post May era.

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

You are correct on this, remainers only have one objective, remain. Whereas Brexiteers have multiple objectives, "Leave, no deal, I really don't care about the consequences, Nigel and Boris have promised me it'll be all gravy anyway", " leave with a deal which makes Britain the net beneficiary, if the EU don't like it they can lump it" and, for many Brexiteers, they are now saying, "Actually it was all a horrible mistake, can we try again?".

"True leavers" only have one objective, unfortunately the movement has been infiltrated by numerous disingenuous, self serving, obstructive, quislings hence the confusion. I'm sure you know who I am referring to.

4 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

A little Englanders response.

...one who hasn't forgotten your threat of fisticuffs of three or so months ago & who knows you to be well into your 70s ????

Feel free to practice...

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

Edited by a got-it-wrong former Tory chancellor who no doubt still has political ambitions in the post May era.

The umpteenth example of a Brexiteer, when presented with the facts, claiming "fake news". No wonder so many of them are Trump supporters!

1 minute ago, aright said:

"True leavers" only have one objective, unfortunately the movement has been infiltrated by numerous disingenuous, self serving, obstructive, quislings hence the confusion. I'm sure you know who I am referring to.

Is it the million or so that want another referendum? Other than that I've no idea who you are referring to. Malagateddy?

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The umpteenth example of a Brexiteer, when presented with the facts, claiming "fake news". No wonder so many of them are Trump supporters!

Go on then; Which bit was wrong?

 

10 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Edited by a got-it-wrong former Tory chancellor who no doubt still has political ambitions in the post May era.

Messenger vs. message come to mind............

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Is it the million or so that want another referendum? Other than that I've no idea who you are referring to. Malagateddy?

No the people who want another referendum are being ignored by the 2 main parties. Ah maybe it's the 2 main parties that are causing the problem.

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

Go on then; Which bit was wrong?

Just because the editor of the Evening Standard was a former chancellor, has zero bearing on the article's validity. I could possibly excuse attacking the person who wrote the article, but the editor, really?

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Go on then; Which bit was wrong?

the problem is brexit itself was all false promises 

 

https://peterjnorth.blogspot.com/2019/05/false-promises.html

7 minutes ago, oilinki said:

So the group of "True leavers" is what? 5 to maximum of 10% of UK population?

 

Without the support of the disingenuous and self serving people, Brexit wouldn't have a slightest change to get through. 

If you can translate this into something I can understand.....will be happy to reply.

1 minute ago, aright said:

No the people who want another referendum are being ignored by the 2 main parties. Ah maybe it's the 2 main parties that are causing the problem.

They're being ignored less and less hence the OP. Parliament is quietly but surely heading towards another referendum. The local election results were a big wake up call for MPs from both parties.

3 minutes ago, aright said:

If you can translate this into something I can understand.....will be happy to reply.

"Jack and Jill went up the hill...." surely you know the rest. 555

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

"Jack and Jill went up the hill...." surely you know the rest. 555

If only it were that simple.

13 minutes ago, evadgib said:

...one who hasn't forgotten your threat of fisticuffs of three or so months ago & who knows you to be well into your 70s ????

Feel free to practice...

My mate is the bad ass. I'm mainly a conscientous objector to anyone who wants to enact Brexshit. Why? Because it would set the UK back for a decade. Or haven't you thought through the consequences? There is zilch positives from leaving.

Just now, aright said:

If only it were that simple.

Quite right. Brexshit will fail to deliver. 

7 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Just because the editor of the Evening Standard was a former chancellor, has zero bearing on the article's validity. I could possibly excuse attacking the person who wrote the article, but the editor, really?

I had no need to read the article as explained. If it declared "UDI Tomorrow!" Osborne wouldn't have touched it. Where is his coverage of the Tilbrook case?

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I had no need to read the article as explained. If it declared "UDI Tomorrow!" Osborne wouldn't have touched it. Where is his coverage of the Tilbrook case?

Your loss.

 

Tilbrook? Do you mean Robin Tilbrook, aka English Democrats (note English not British)? Where is any other respected media's coverage of him? Not even a wannabe, just a never was.

9 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

My mate is the bad ass. I'm mainly a conscientous objector to anyone who wants to enact Brexshit. Why? Because it would set the UK back for a decade. Or haven't you thought through the consequences? There is zilch positives from leaving.

If it's done properly we'll come out smelling o'roses. By 'properly' I mean a route-and-branch clearout of Parliament; PR to replace FPTP; An Elected & accountable upper chamber and someone like Maggie at the helm running the place like an RSM. None of that will happen overnight but Farage and Doris Karloff are a step in the right direction as we'll all see in a fortnight.

13 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Your loss.

 

Tilbrook? Do you mean Robin Tilbrook, aka English Democrats (note English not British)? Where is any other respected media's coverage of him? Not even a wannabe, just a never was.

Like Gina Miller?

Oh wait a minute...

Just now, evadgib said:

If it's done properly we'll come out smelling o'roses. By 'properly' I mean a route-and-branch clearout of Parliament; PR to replace FPTP; An Elected & accountable upper chamber and someone like Maggie at the helm running the place like an RSM. None of that will happen overnight but Farage and Doris Karloff are a step in the right direction as we'll all see in a fortnight.

OMG. You are delusional. Done properly? Are you joking? Since when is anything done properly, least of all the UK government whoever is in power? As for Farage, are you serious? 

9 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

OMG. You are delusional. Done properly? Are you joking? Since when is anything done properly, least of all the UK government whoever is in power? As for Farage, are you serious? 

You've answered your own question ????

(The whole shooting match is a disaster but was not of the peoples making!)

As for who can sort it out I haven't a clue but no one rolls off the tongue that is already sitting in the house.