UK PM May looking at second Brexit vote options if talks fail - Telegraph

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

 

Those who chose not to vote took their democratic choice to abstain. Try to absorb this great knowledge!

Or were sucked into a false sense of security by the polls at the time.

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, aright said:

It certainly is if its "the will of the people"

Sad.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Wised up is right, now they are totally pissed off.

Not as many as you like to make out.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

It certainly is if its "the will of the people"

It was the will of "some of the people." How many in reality is what we are currently debating.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Or were sucked into a false sense of security by the polls at the time.

Oh my my, excuses excuses excuses. Multiple tetchiness from remoaners today?

 

Well, I'm off - late for drinks - have a gas!  

[stephenterry]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Those who chose not to vote took their democratic choice to abstain. Try to absorb this great knowledge!

So that counts as a no, then? Because it sure doesn't count as a yes. However, that 17 million people can override 65 million people is not democratic whichever way you look at it. 

[aright]

1 minute ago, oilinki said:

I was simply calculating the popularity of "True Leavers" on the UK's electorate. 

 

As motivation to vote matter and many of these "True Leavers" were waiting for decades to finally be able to vote to leave the EU, they were very motivated compared to the rest of the electorate. They did vote, while many others were feeling 'Nah, why bother?'.

 

 

But why? They are part of a separate statistic not the people who want to leave/stay statistic. It couldn't be because it falsely supports your 10-15% figure is it?

What's wrong with my figures and conclusion? 

[Spidey]

12 minutes ago, evadgib said:

If he took the comma out I might agree (???? )

You leave my commas alone or i'm going to get Olinki's mate to come round and see you.

 

Be afraid, be very afraid, sh1t yourself.

 

                                                  

[stephenterry]

13 minutes ago, nauseus said:

This 37% rot has been run through here so often you can almost time it. 

 

Doesn't make it irrelevant, though. If you think that 17 million leavers could override the will of 65 million population, you're in for a big surprise.

[aright]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

It was the will of "some of the people." How many in reality is what we are currently debating.

It was the will of the people who cared about the issue. Democracy can't work on any other basis although Remainers seem to be working on it

[aright]

13 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Your figures are 3 years old. People have wised up.

 

Also, 3 years ago, all the polls were predicting a remain win (probably because most people did want to remain). This induced complacency amongst remainers who didn't bother to go out and vote.

No his figures were 3 years old my figures were April 2019 figures

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

It was the will of the people who cared about the issue. Democracy can't work on any other basis although Remainers seem to be working on it

It wasn't about caring. It was about complacency thinking remain was a done deal.

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, aright said:

No his figures were 3 years old my figures were April 2019 figures

I have read your posts again and can't see any reference to April 2019 figures, only the 2016 referendum results.

 

Could you please post them again?

[aright]

1 minute ago, oilinki said:

No you can not leave the motivation to vote out of the equation. That's too simplistic way to see the statistics in this kind of vote. 

 

The figure was 5-10% of the electorate. 

 

5-10% of the electorate means 2.4-4.7 million people. That would have given 8-16% votes to the "True Leavers" in the 2016 referendum out of 30 million people who cast their votes.

 

 

 

Ok show me the evidence that the true leavers would have voted that way. Since 52% of people voted to leave where is your evidence, beyond personal speculation, that 52% of the people who didn't vote would not have voted to leave.

 

I see you are staying clear of my figures and conclusion. They don't really help with your new assertion of 8-16% do they. What are your thoughts? I keep telling you where I think you are wrong at least you could tell me what's wrong with my premise

 

[aright]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I have read your posts again and can't see any reference to April 2019 figures, only the 2016 referendum results.

 

Could you please post them again?

Sure these figures are for April15-16 There is a later one showing Brexit now at 30% but I don't have that one. I'm sure it was YouGov again so you could do a search for the latest.

 

 

 

[aright]

38 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

What's wrong with your figures is that is not a majority of the electorate, only a majority of those who voted. You can argue any which way, but 17 million out of the 65 million population is not a democratic rationale for leaving the EU. 

So if the decision on the basis of votes cast to leave the EU was not a democratic decision what words would you use to describe what sort of decision it was.

[tebee]

6 minutes ago, aright said:

Sure these figures are for April15-16 There is a later one showing Brexit now at 30% but I don't have that one. I'm sure it was YouGov again so you could do a search for the latest.

 

 

 

there is something very strange with the figures there - the % for 10-11 add up to 90%, but those for 15-16 add up to 103%

 

Also snp is shown as rising from 6-7% but the line falls !

[aright]

1 minute ago, oilinki said:

It's not a new assertion. It's simply saying the same thing in different manner. It's a question of either you understand the figures or not. 

 

5-10% of the electorate is exactly the same amount as 8-16% of subset of votes casted (30 million) in the 2016 referendum.  

 

If you accept the math itself, then and only then, please report your figures and conclusions, so we could take a look at it.

See post 406 and my original contention

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, aright said:

Sure these figures are for April15-16 There is a later one showing Brexit now at 30% but I don't have that one. I'm sure it was YouGov again so you could do a search for the latest.

 

 

 

AS I've explained before the way people will vote in the Euro elections is no reflection on how they would vote in a GE or a referendum. Local elections are a better guide although not conclusive, which is why many MPs are doing the turnaround now.

 

A straight question on how would you vote given another referendum, is probably the best indicator. Most, if not all polls, that I've seen recently come out with similar results to this. One recent poll came out with more than 60% remain.

 

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

 

Currently 51% remain, 45% leave.

[surangw]

SO,   no more "final" deadlines ?

 

[aright]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

AS I've explained before the way people will vote in the Euro elections is no reflection on how they would vote in a GE or a referendum. Local elections are a better guide although not conclusive, which is why many MPs are doing the turnaround now.

 

A straight question on how would you vote given another referendum, is probably the best indicator. Most, if not all polls, that I've seen recently come out with similar results to this. One recent poll came out with more than 60% remain.

 

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

 

Currently 51% remain, 45% leave.

Your figures certainly make a nonsense of Oilinki's claim that only 8-16% want to leave. 

I agree there will be people who vote differently in an EU and a GE. How differently I think will be indicated by results in the Euro election. If Brexit have an overwhelming victory I think they will win a GE If its less conclusive the result will depend on what the electorate  are offered prior to the GE. I have heard it claimed Brexit have no manifesto and they need to work on that however the counter claim is both Con and Lab parties had manifestos but then ignored them.

Off for a Pint, back later.   

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, surangw said:

SO,   no more "final" deadlines ?

 

The EU mandarins are saying "before Christmas". Donal Tusk, president of the European Coucil, long time friend of the UK and IMO, a cool guy, seems to take the attitue, "Don't sweat the petty things gus, take as long as you like". Has even suggested 2 years wouldn't be a problem. Heaven forbid 2 more years of Brexit threads on TV!

[malagateddy]

Doesn't make it irrelevant, though. If you think that 17 million leavers could override the will of 65 million population, you're in for a big surprise.

Pray tell all re your big surprise..big bad wolf gonna gobble us up.
Walk the walk and stop talking the talk..it's rather boring getting same old..same old b/s from the remoaners.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

Your figures certainly make a nonsense of Oilinki's claim that only 8-16% want to leave. 

I agree there will be people who vote differently in an EU and a GE. How differently I think will be indicated by results in the Euro election. If Brexit have an overwhelming victory I think they will win a GE If its less conclusive the result will depend on what the electorate  are offered prior to the GE. I have heard it claimed Brexit have no manifesto and they need to work on that however the counter claim is both Con and Lab parties had manifestos but then ignored them.

Off for a Pint, back later.   

No mate, the Euro elections are a terrible guide to anything. Most people stay at home and watch the results on breakfast TV. It's just the die hard angry old men (yes you know who you are) who will actually bother to go out and vote. I have voted in almost every GE since the mid 70s, most local elections and both referendums. I have never voted in the EUros, unless you count the Eurovision Song Contest (Go the Monkey Hanger"), which has more relevance.

[Spidey]

8 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I must admit I find this Brexit reality show a lot better than any of the other Reality shows on the television ????

 

Here on TV and on Twitter it's also interactive, which can be fun, if we don't take the issue itself too seriously all the time. 

Which never ceases to amaze me. Why take it so seriously? It's just a bit of fun guys. It's TV not the House of Commons. The majority of us are expats in Thailand who won't be affected greatly by the result, whichever way it goes.

 

Is it worth getting your knickers in a twist over? This thread needs more fun.

 

Now @evadgib, will you be selling tickets for the upcoming fight between you and @oilinki

 

My money's on Oilinki. Did you know that he's a roustabout on the rigs?

@

Edited May 8, 2019 by Spidey

[evadgib]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Which never ceases to amaze me. Why take it so seriously? It's just a bit of fun guys. It's TV not the House of Commons. The majority of us are expats in Thailand who won't be affected greatly by the result, whichever way it goes.

 

Is it worth getting your knickers in a twist over?

Note my observations re Recruiting Sergeants & how they have driven posters into actions that they would never usually have bothered with.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

Note my observations re Recruiting Sergeants & how they have driven posters into actions that they would never usually have bothered with.

Ah yes, Sergeant Malagateddy. Got you. Say no more.

[evadgib]

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Which never ceases to amaze me. Why take it so seriously? It's just a bit of fun guys. It's TV not the House of Commons. The majority of us are expats in Thailand who won't be affected greatly by the result, whichever way it goes.

 

Is it worth getting your knickers in a twist over? This thread needs more fun.

 

Now @evadgib, will you be selling tickets for the upcoming fight between you and @oilinki

 

My money's on Oilinki. Did you know that he's a roustabout on the rigs?

@

Blimey, you mean he's Jamaican?

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Ah yes, Sergeant Malagateddy. Got you. Say no more.

Teddy only picked that up after I had fired it (the accusation) in the other direction ????

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

Teddy only picked that up after I had fired it (the accusation) in the other direction ????

Typical!  Does he have a meme for it? 555