90 Day Rule Enforced

[ozzieman05]

Do I understand by your comments

If you have a 60 day tourist visa, you can opt to go to the Thai immgration office just before it has expired and pay to have a 30 day extension ..

So if you pay for a double 30 day visa in an overseas embassy, can you do the same thing before the 1st visa has expired, leave the country with in these 30 days, return again on the second part of your visa and then get another extension at the immigration office before this one expires

Giving you 180 days to start off with

The cost for the xtension is 1900 baht correct?

Now as you entered Thailand on paid Tourist Visas does the 90 day in 180 apply or you can now return after a border run and get a 30 dy visa, at which point the days start accumulation, so if you do this 3 times you now have another 90 days

So now you go back to an overseas embassy and re apply for a doube tourist visa

Sounds a like of mucking around, bt will this work

Edited March 11, 2007 by ozzieman05

[Sophon]

I'm a 47 y/o American guy and I've been making 30 day visa runs to Poi Pet for 6 years running. I have made 4 of these now since the rule has gone into effect no questions asked. My plan from the get go was to keep doing these same runs until I get a warning or 7 days to leave the country. I can take this risk as I will just leave and get a 60 day tourist. On my 4th run, no one batted an eye and no one has ever added up days; they have just stamped me thru each time. btw, I am an early retiree with plenty of cash who would never even think of working in this country. Maybe this is how I look to the Immi guy . Afterall, It is up to the discretion of the officer, as I have heard many times.

I wonder what would happen if/when a border official realizes you have used the passport stamps in excess of the legal allocation limit (i.e. more than 90 days in 180 days)? Could you be arrested for violating immigration laws? Does the passport holder bear responsibility if an immigration officer stamps for a stay that would extend beyond the permitted limit?

I think it's more likely that he will simply be refsed entry into Thailand and will be stuck in Cambodia. I don't think there is any regulation that says that he is entitled to enter for seven further days to pack up, especially if he has already stayed more than the 90 days allowed.

Sophon

you can speculate all you want but I have not heard of a single case of this happening since the new regulation so I say there is no way he would be denied entry. You are just scaremongering. I never saw anyone buying beer after midnight get arrested either

If you try to read my post a little more carefully you will see that I was not scaremongering at all, quite the contrary. I replied to a mail that was speculating if you could get arrested for staying more than 90 days, and was saying that I would find it more likely that you would be denied entry rather than being arrested.

I agree that in most cases if you try to enter after your 90 days is up, they would probably give you a few days to get your house in order. But the way you frase it, you make it sound like you would be entitled to such a respite. I don't believe that is the case, and if they wan't to they can deny you entry.

Immigration officers do have a certain degree of discretion in how they enforce the rules, but if a direct decree comes from Bangkok, I have no doubt it will be followed. The 90 days rule is in fact being enforced in many locations as many reports here have confirmed notwithstanding that you seem to have received more than your allotted share. That could could be due to generous interpretation of the rules by your particular immigration officer (or just a honest mistake by him).

If you believe that you will be allowed indefinete visa exempt entries and are willing to live with the consequences if you are mistaken, then good for you. I honestly wish you the best of luck and hope you are right. But you are effectively advocating this cause of action on a public forum, and making it sound like it's very unlikely that anyone would be denied entry, which I think is plain wrong. There are people here on the forum with limited knowledge or experience of Thailand, and some might follow your example. Are you willing to take the responsibility if others follow your example and are eventually denied entry back into Thailand?

Sophon

Edited March 11, 2007 by Sophon

[Fred Sanford]

In one thread here there's a guy who overstayed his non-o by 3 months (multi-entry). He leaves the country, turns around and comes back using the same visa. Immi doesn't mind allowing this guy to do this and I surmise the same thing would go for someone coming back for a 4th 30 day stamp try. Both of these things could be argued to the officer that they were "mistakes". But as I said earlier, I have not heard of one single case where someone was denied entry to Thailand on this new rule thing. In addition, on the overstay thing, I've heard of many people who have overstayed years and years only to fork over the 20K baht and return immediately. Personally I think this is flat out wrong and no one should ever overstay. The 90 days in 180 thing, if abused, is a far and away less severe abuse and the person is legal 100% while in Thailand as his stamp is valid. Immi is not going to strand this guy at the border, no way no how. They may at worst case give him a stamp with a few days on it

Edited March 11, 2007 by Fred Sanford

[lopburi3]

We have has many reports on this forum of people being refused entry at the border crossings when they have reached the 90 day limit and being told to make there way to Embassy and obtain a tourist visa if they wish to return. It may not be draconian but it is being enforced at a number of crossings.

[Sophon]

In one thread here there's a guy who overstayed his non-o by 3 months (multi-entry). He leaves the country, turns around and comes back using the same visa. Immi doesn't mind allowing this guy to do this and I surmise the same thing would go for someone coming back for a 4th 30 day stamp try.

There is a very important difference between the two situations you mention:

In the first situation the person has prevously broken the rules. But when he returns he still has a valid visa, and if he hasn't been blacklisted (which rarely seems to happen for overstays), he will be allowed in again. There are no general regulation saying that people who have previously overstayed cannot enter Thailand again.

In the second the person will be breaking the rules if entering on his 4th consecutive 30 days exemption (assuming that he stayed the full 30 days each time). And perhaps more importantly the immigration officer will be aiding him in breaking the rules if he allows him in.

I don't think in any way you can use one situation as an argument for what will happen in the other.

I would think (but that is just my personal guess) that if a person tries to enter on a fourth visa exempt entry after having used his 90 days, he would probably get a few days to close up shop (or go somewhere and get a tourist visa). But I'm not so sure the same would be the case, if he had somehow managed to stay more than 90 days.

The truth is nobody can say for sure what will happen, and I think it unwise to advocate that anyone should take the risk. After all, it's not that difficult to get a single entry tourist visa that give you 90 days in-contry (including an extension), and unless you live near a border it won't cost you that much more either.

Sophon

[Maestro]

I would think (but that is just my personal guess) that if a person tries to enter on a fourth visa exempt entry after having used his 90 days, he would probably get a few days to close up shop (or go somewhere and get a tourist visa).

Yes, that’s it exactly. I have already seen more than one report by members saying that this is what happened to them.

--

Maestro

[thaihome]

Wonder if Immgration can start a seperate line for visa exempt. If I have to wait behind someone for 5 minutes while they counted the days I'm going to be pissed.

TH

[astral]

Wonder if Immgration can start a seperate line for visa exempt. If I have to wait behind someone for 5 minutes while they counted the days I'm going to be pissed.

TH

That is a good idea....

[Pattayatony]

I would think (but that is just my personal guess) that if a person tries to enter on a fourth visa exempt entry after having used his 90 days, he would probably get a few days to close up shop (or go somewhere and get a tourist visa).

Yes, that’s it exactly. I have already seen more than one report by members saying that this is what happened to them.

--

Maestro

I had a call the other day from a Belgium guy I know and he had just been refused at the Cambo border.

The officer said he had been in Thailand too long and could not come back for 90 days and noted this in his passport.

The Belgium guy said but all of my cloths etc are in my condo in Thailand Responce>>> They sell cloths in Cambodia.

He has now gone back to Belgium and says that he will never return to Thailand.

This guy is not a crim or dero he is a nice polite man.

It seems to me that it all depends on the Immigration officer on the day.

Cheers Tony

[CGW]

Wonder if Immgration can start a seperate line for visa exempt. If I have to wait behind someone for 5 minutes while they counted the days I'm going to be pissed.

TH

There was no one waiting behind me! It took them so long to count stamps they had long gone to another line.

[Creeper]

Certainly are enforcing at Aranyaphratet border......................

I went there today, going out no problem, coming in I was asked to produce my old passport as my new one was issued in January, I never had my old passport, but of course my old passport number was recorded in my new passport when the old entry stamp was transferred in January.

Hence a computer check was performed, I was over 90 days as an individual, nothing to do with what passport I was using, I got back in Thailand with a stamp in for 1 Day only. In fact it was 9 hours only, 3 pm to midnight.

So it's off to Singapore tomorow for a 3 day 2 night break to get a tourist visa.

I am leaving the country for work at the end of the week too, but the Immigration guy at the border would not even give me 48 hours to settle my affairs, same day in and out !!

Guess I should not have listened to some prix who told me that the stamps/days in my new passport would be the only ones counted.

I mentioned to the Immigration guy that I had to return home to get the funds to purchase an airline ticket to go to Singapore and as it was already 3 pm and I lived 250Kms away I would be on overstay by the time I was travelling to the airport the next day.........................

His response was " I don't care ", bless him.

Bought my ticket already and will leave in the morning hoping I am not asked for my passport on the route to the airport.

Be warned chaps.

Some Rumanian girl was in tears after she was refused entry cos they are not issuing Visas on Arrival at this present time at the Cambodian border, all her backpacker friends had already passed through into Thailand. They're a group travelling on their first trip to Thailand, they seemed in a state of shock!!

Welcome to the Land of Smiles.

Edited March 19, 2007 by Creeper

[Maestro]

Thank you for your report, Creeper. I am bookmarking it to point others to it who will inquire about the enforcement of this rule.

--

Maestro

[visarunner]

Certainly are enforcing at Aranyaphratet border......................

I went there today, going out no problem, coming in I was asked to produce my old passport as my new one was issued in January, I never had my old passport, but of course my old passport number was recorded in my new passport when the old entry stamp was transferred in January.

Hence a computer check was performed, I was over 90 days as an individual, nothing to do with what passport I was using, I got back in Thailand with a stamp in for 1 Day only. In fact it was 9 hours only, 3 pm to midnight.

So it's off to Singapore tomorow for a 3 day 2 night break to get a tourist visa.

I am leaving the country for work at the end of the week too, but the Immigration guy at the border would not even give me 48 hours to settle my affairs, same day in and out !!

Guess I should not have listened to some prix who told me that the stamps/days in my new passport would be the only ones counted.

I mentioned to the Immigration guy that I had to return home to get the funds to purchase an airline ticket to go to Singapore and as it was already 3 pm and I lived 250Kms away I would be on overstay by the time I was travelling to the airport the next day.........................

His response was " I don't care ", bless him.

Bought my ticket already and will leave in the morning hoping I am not asked for my passport on the route to the airport.

Be warned chaps.

Some Rumanian girl was in tears after she was refused entry cos they are not issuing Visas on Arrival at this present time at the Cambodian border, all her backpacker friends had already passed through into Thailand. They're a group travelling on their first trip to Thailand, they seemed in a state of shock!!

Welcome to the Land of Smiles.

Thanks to Creeper , your experience describes perfectly the real situation.

The Immigration in Aran can check online , if in doubt they will check your name and easily add up the days you spend on new and old Passport.

Sorry for the Romanian girl , but she really can not get a Visa On Arrival at the Landborder .

[unbiasbob]

What is the rule for Romanians? I have a friend who is one and he received a 30 day visa instead of a 60 from an embassy abroad. I dont see them on the 15 day visa entry list/

[visarunner]

What is the rule for Romanians? I have a friend who is one and he received a 30 day visa instead of a 60 from an embassy abroad. I dont see them on the 15 day visa entry list/

Romanians have to apply for a Tourist Visa , upon entry they will be granted 30days stay which can be extented at least once for 30days at a cost of THB 1,900.- at any Immigration office.

They will not be able to apply for Visa On Arrival(15days) .

[dr_Pat_Pong]

She came up with 31 days, which I told her was incorrect,

or even get a real visa

If the OP had only 31 days (or less as implied by saying the Imm Officer was wrong) then there is no need for a real visa. Some of us have no time to hang around consulates applying for TV's, we are in and out of Thailand too much.

You'll learn ... and very soon I'd guess.

[LivinLOS]

Thanks to Creeper , your experience describes perfectly the real situation.

The Immigration in Aran can check online , if in doubt they will check your name and easily add up the days you spend on new and old Passport.

Sorry for the Romanian girl , but she really can not get a Visa On Arrival at the Landborder .

How is this possible without a centralized online database ??

No such database currently exists proven by the fact many borders are not linked online.. And passports are not 'scanned' or read by machine readable equipment.

If one did surely all this hand counting would not be happening.

[lopburi3]

Data entry - you poke in the required data to the computer program. It can be machine, machine assisted or manual - but it is done. There are outages so data is not always available or completely current and there can be outages. But I am sure at some point all data gets to a data base.

[visarunner]

Thanks to Creeper , your experience describes perfectly the real situation.

The Immigration in Aran can check online , if in doubt they will check your name and easily add up the days you spend on new and old Passport.

Sorry for the Romanian girl , but she really can not get a Visa On Arrival at the Landborder .

How is this possible without a centralized online database ??

No such database currently exists proven by the fact many borders are not linked online.. And passports are not 'scanned' or read by machine readable equipment.

If one did surely all this hand counting would not be happening.

IMMIGRATION in ARAN is Online.

[LivinLOS]

Data entry - you poke in the required data to the computer program. It can be machine, machine assisted or manual - but it is done. There are outages so data is not always available or completely current and there can be outages. But I am sure at some point all data gets to a data base.

Is that the 'sure' of knowledge that such a system does exist.. Or is that the sure of someone who assumes it would exist..

I have never seen any proof of such a system implemented as yet.. It seems likely they would want one but having one now ?? I dont see it at any immigration office or border I have been to lately..

[lopburi3]

What exactly do you think those computer terminals are for? They have been using them for many, many years and yes they do connect to a data base for sure, for sure.

[SabahCafeandCinima]

All immigration border points are online for

weeding out those with Thailand issued warrants

Don't know about other stuff

[LivinLOS]

I had read that only a smallish amount (cant remember the exact number) were 'online' for immigration related tasks.. Of course the main ones were but lots of smaller border posts in between..

As another poster is claiming they track you through multiple passports.. And as I regularly flip passports when travelling.. I was wondering what proof there is to back up that claim.. It doesnt fit with my experience.

As yet I have never seen any ability to track or trace or know anything about my visiting history when at even major immigration points.. They seem to be always checking stamps rather then ever checking a database.

Begs the question if they have this database.. Why manually count stamps.. Surely just put the passport number in and bingo.. Total days inside of 180 all done. The fact this isnt the case would lead me to believe that this data is not correctly managed in this way.

[smartecosse]

What exactly do you think those computer terminals are for? They have been using them for many, many years and yes they do connect to a data base for sure, for sure.

playing patience and checking their stocks online