Tim Walz faces new question: How many 'misspeaks' can a 'knucklehead' get away with

[impulse]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Well, whatever unfairness China imposes in trade relations, and there's a lot, the graphs you produced are singularly inapt to establishing your point. Of course the Chinese have imposed tariffs on a higher percentage on American imports. That's because they import so much less. The salient point is that the USA has imposed tariffs on 250 billion dollars worth of chinese imports whereas China has imposed tariffs on 110 billion. The Chinese are actually at a disadvantage here since at most they could impose tariffs on 120 billion dollars worth of imports

If Trump really wanted to go after China for its unfair trade practices, then why has he alienated the EU, the Canadians, and the Japanese? These would be natural allies in such a fight. They also are plenty upset with the Chinese. Instead he is threatening trade wars against them. And has already imposed tariffs on aluminium and steel.

 

Those first few sentences are the most convoluted argument I've ever read on the topic.

 

 

[Traubert]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

one sure effect of Trump's tariffs will be to raise the value of the US dollar against the Yuan.

The yuan is pegged to the dollar. That's why  Don calls China a currency manipulator when in fact the Chinese just mirror what happens on to the dollar.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Scott

[Traubert]

31 minutes ago, riclag said:

I said one was the USA(other countries-"global supply lines and epicenters of expertise" ) !The beauty part of of Mr. Trumps tariffs will bring on competition , create mfg jobs and spur new business ventures. It also doesn't happen overnight!

. 

Where is the money coming from? Mr Trump is collecting all that tariff money from Americans, buying unsold farm produce from American farmers and giving it to poorer counties.

 

Free.

[utalkin2me]

If i understand this correctly, tariffs hiked, Americans pay more for stuff, American companies (ie rich people) get to sell more stuff. 

 

Why exactly am I supposed to be happy about this? The only winners are rich Americans. 

[riclag]

47 minutes ago, Traubert said:

Where is the money coming from? Mr Trump is collecting all that tariff money from Americans, buying unsold farm produce from American farmers and giving it to poorer counties.

 

Free.

 

47 minutes ago, Traubert said:

Where is the money coming from? Mr Trump is collecting all that tariff money from Americans, buying unsold farm produce from American farmers and giving it to poorer counties.

 

Free.

The intention for tariffs are 

47 minutes ago, Traubert said:

  1 hour ago, riclag said:

I said one was the USA(other countries-"global supply lines and epicenters of expertise" ) !The beauty part of of Mr. Trumps tariffs will bring on competition , create mfg jobs and spur new business ventures. It also doesn't happen overnight!

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by riclag

[Traubert]

Errrr.....okaaaayyyy........

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[joecoolfrog]

I have accepted that his base ignores Trump's blatant lying , yet am stilo amazed that they are so blinkered as to not question why he does it.

[wilcopops]

14 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

trump's retort..."Buyers of product can make it themselves in the USA (ideal)."

 

I'll be in my workshop building my mobile phone, and knitting my tube socks.

 

 

 

...and those tariffs will be paid by American consumers.

[Redline]

I agree with Trump on his hard line with China, as I have been vocal about these issues for over a decade-his mistake is not working with all allies on the issue, which would stop China in its tracks-EU, Japan, South Korea, Australia, and a host of other countries.  That would e a serious setback, but DT is not a team player, as he expects everyone else to be

[Credo]

A very basic problem is that many people are looking purely at the economics behind tariffs.   There is more to it than that.   China produces a great deal of stuff which they can market throughout much of the world.   They may be dependent on the US at this point in time, but their ever expanding footprint means they can develop new markets quickly.

 

The US on the other hand is a very long way from being able to establish any type of manufacturing base.   What can be manufactured is not going to be cheap or competitive.   We cannot compete with China and we can not economically satisfy our own needs at a reasonable price.   

 

The US has a dwindling number of friends, so while the US citizens suffer, the rest of the world will benefit from Chinese products.   

 

I won't even begin on the effect this has on farmers, but then again I'm sure the bail outs for them will continue.   

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

Problem is easily solved, don't buy Chinese goods and the trade deficit will disappear.

[wilcopops]

If one wants to see the effects of protectionism first hand just look a motor vehicles in Thailand.

[Cryingdick]

14 hours ago, arithai12 said:

by a lot of foreigners, one may add.

Anyway, since you mention this specific topic: Apple has taken a giant hit in its China sales already by end of last year, and it will suffer even more this year. Apple is probably not especially happy considering that they regarded China as their main future market. Meanwhile Huawei is booming.

 

Apple is quickly transitioning into being a service company. They reported their earnings and it was very well received. Sure they will suffer from China but Apple's next major move is into the health sector which is pretty stable even in the harshest trade environments people still want to live.

 

One can only hope Apple stock gets completely battered out of this so one can buy more. They get unfairly bashed when trade issues come up and pop back very quickly. Last time this happened Apple went down to $143 a share or so. 

 

If you want to see a stock that is likely to suffer look no further than Boeing. They have shady practices, criminal investigations, and a lack of consumer confidence at this point. Any bad news from China will cause a panic sell, which has just begun. In this sense Apple is at least still reputable where as Boeing has a compound fracture. For those of you that said I was a death merchant buying Boeing after the crash I sold it when criminal investigations came up. 

 

Part of the reason things went down today is people who use margins are selling their junk they have used leverage to buy so they can keep some money on the side in the next month or so. The retail investor should just cost average and the traders will play it both ways.

 

In any event China has so much more to lose. Once American companies find new pastures that are greener  China loses them forever. The tech stocks that got hit so bad today are still just a few points off of all time highs. 

 

I guess if Walmart is your go to shop things will get more expensive but that's the cost of poverty.

 

 

[mtls2005]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

Problem is easily solved, don't buy Chinese goods and the trade deficit will disappear.

 

This is the sort of simplistic argument which a semi-skilled used-car salesman can use successfully on third-grade math challenged voters effectively.

 

Look we've been there and done that, not that history is valued by the trump administration.

 

Smoot-Hawley, 1930, that worked out so well now didn't it?

 

Had we stayed with traditional allies and trading partners, and alliances (NAFTA, TPP) we could have presented a untied front and gotten at least some capitulation from China.

 

But no, we're left with trump, a couple of hack economists, backed by a froth-mouthed base, "negotiating" trade deals with countries like they're suppliers to one of his building projects. He treats trading partners like some tile supplier in Flushing, whittling down the price by bullying, thinking he's "winning", only thinking about that one deal and not any future deals.

 

What's most amazing? That so many have given up their life-long beliefs at the behest of a really dumb salesman. But it seems like a percentage of the (U.S.) populace (~ 35% ?) is susceptible to the huckster who appeals to their fears, inadequacies, while most of us see right through these charlatans. I guess that's why cult leaders still find adherents even after Jonestown, and Waco?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cryingdick]

3 hours ago, Credo said:

A very basic problem is that many people are looking purely at the economics behind tariffs.   There is more to it than that.   China produces a great deal of stuff which they can market throughout much of the world.   They may be dependent on the US at this point in time, but their ever expanding footprint means they can develop new markets quickly.

 

The US on the other hand is a very long way from being able to establish any type of manufacturing base.   What can be manufactured is not going to be cheap or competitive.   We cannot compete with China and we can not economically satisfy our own needs at a reasonable price.   

 

The US has a dwindling number of friends, so while the US citizens suffer, the rest of the world will benefit from Chinese products.   

 

I won't even begin on the effect this has on farmers, but then again I'm sure the bail outs for them will continue.   

 

 

 

America can be self sufficient quite easily. Prices would have to go up but the USA isn't reliant on any other country in a way that is urgent. We pay farmers to dump food. We have more lumber than basically anywhere but Canada. Oil resources are there. LPG, 

 

The next wave is technology and we should stand up and protect our IP. China is only where it is because of outright thievery. I find this battle interesting and bring it on.

[Cryingdick]

2 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

This is the sort of simplistic argument which a semi-skilled used-car salesman can use successfully on third-grade math challenged voters effectively.

 

Look we've been there and done that, not that history is valued by the trump administration.

 

Smoot-Hawley, 1930, that worked out so well now didn't it?

 

Had we stayed with traditional allies and trading partners, and alliances (NAFTA, TPP) we could have presented a untied front and gotten at least some capitulation from China.

 

But no, we're left with trump, a couple of hack economists, backed by a froth-mouthed base, "negotiating" trade deals with countries like they're suppliers to one of his building projects. He treats trading partners like some tile supplier in Flushing, whittling down the price by bullying, thinking he's "winning", only thinking about that one deal and not any future deals.

 

What's most amazing? That so many have given up their life-long beliefs at the behest of a really dumb salesman. But it seems like a percentage of the (U.S.) populace (~ 35% ?) is susceptible to the huckster who appeals to their fears, inadequacies, while most of us see right through these charlatans. I guess that's why cult leaders still find adherents even after Jonestown, and Waco?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are a lot of Americans who live at the median income level and can afford to shop around if the tariffs get out of hand. As the uncertainty of dealing with China becomes too much of a risk to bother with you will see companies spin off of it. Places like Walmart have been undercutting local business so long that this might actually level the playing field. 

 

I remember when the Japanese sold us junk way back in the day and buy American campaigns started up. This should put people in the USA on alert it's time to dump China and find alternatives when possible.

 

Most of what China makes is absolute junk anyway.

[mtls2005]

3 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

America can be self sufficient quite easily.

 

Ah, the echoes of Willis C. Hawley, and Reed Smoot.

 

A good way to appeal to simpletons, with a vague, but a simple sounding message.

 

 

In addition to the million or so extinctions expected, please add one more: The Republican Free Trader.

 

 

[Cryingdick]

Just now, mtls2005 said:

 

Ah, the echoes of Willis C. Hawley, and Reed Smoot.

 

A good way to appeal to simpletons, with a vague, but a simple sounding message.

 

 

In addition to the million or so extinctions expected, please add one more: The Republican Free Trader.

 

 

We have steel, wheat fields as far as the eye can see, more timber than most places, oil, tech, etc. You want wages above $15 an hour? It is simple reject Chinese goods and slave labor from neighboring countries.

[Credo]

I can just see the average family going to the local shoe maker because their kids need new shoes.   

 

[mtls2005]

8 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

We have steel, wheat fields as far as the eye can see, more timber than most places, oil, tech, etc. You want wages above $15 an hour? It is simple reject Chinese goods and slave labor from neighboring countries.

 

Thanks for the updated fifth stanza of America the Beautiful, how appropriate it comes from the chap who donated $1,000 to the bogus GoFundME Wall campaign.

 

Why am I not shocked?

 

 

[Tug]

I’m no stock market trade guy just a regular person but I do know it is prudent to enlist help of like minded countries when trying to bring a rich large hostile trading partner to heal one thing you don’t do is poke your friends in the eye then try to bulley everyone this trump is not the right man for the job

[mtls2005]

Just now, Credo said:

I can just see the average family going to the local shoe maker because their kids need new shoes.   

 

 

Screw that, get those kids to work making their own shows down in the basement.

 

 

$500 in materials, $1,000 in tools, $25,000 in medical bills, and voila, three months later, a pair of shoes. Life can be simple again.

 

 

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, Tug said:

I’m no stock market trade guy just a regular person but I do know it is prudent to enlist help of like minded countries when trying to bring a rich large hostile trading partner to heal one thing you don’t do is poke your friends in the eye then try to bulley everyone this trump is not the right man for the job

 

If you can't handle the volatility you shouldn't be in the market. This is once again a great set up.

[Chomper Higgot]

Trump’s trade war with China is working wonders for the US stock market.

 

His efforts to drive the market down will not be tolerated for too long.

[mtls2005]

 

Brilliantly trumpian rejoinder.

 

How about throwing in a couple of bing, bing, boing, boings?

 

"Trade wars are good, and easy to win", says the guy with bone-spurs...who has never seen anything close to war.

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Scott

[Tug]

2 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

If you can't handle the volatility you shouldn't be in the market. This is once again a great set up.

Just wait till they get pissed and really tank the market I’m sure they know Donald has an election in 2020 they can wait nooo the Chinese way out class Donald get ready for blood in the water 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

If you can't handle the volatility you shouldn't be in the market. This is once again a great set up.

Arguably the only two pluses Trump has going for him are his stubborn base and the booming economy he inherited from Obama.

 

It is evident he can’t do or say anything that will unsettle the former, so he’s now focussed on destroying the latter.

 

There is no fix for stupid.

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[metisdead]

Former Goldman CEO Lloyd Blankfein: Trump’s tariffs aren’t a bad idea

 

KEY POINTS

• “Tariffs might be an effective negotiating tool,” former Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein says in a tweet Tuesday evening New York time.
• “China relies more on trade and loses more,” he adds.
• Tariffs may cause U.S. buyers to switch their purchases to local or non-Chinese companies, causing Chinese companies to lose revenues, Blankfein says in a separate tweet.

Read more here:  https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/15/goldman-sachs-ex-ceo-blankfein-tariffs-may-hurt-us-china-loses-more.html