Health insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners in Thailand

[Tanoshi]

8 hours ago, Rally123 said:

Why doesn't the Thai government just come out with a medical scheme they tried in 2014, or there abouts. It was a medical scheme for long stay expats and foreign workers using government hospitals . I think the conditions of joining was having a Yellow Book and you paid a one off fee after taking a medical including a chest xray. The government scrapped it some months later. Now I can't see why they can't reintroduce this again as a condition of living here. At the time I thought it was a brilliant idea.

Health Scheme for foreigners.

It was intended for Myanmar, Cambodian, Lao workers only, but many of the hospitals allowed all foreigners to enrol due to an Administration error. When the error came to light all but those it was intended for were refused renewal.

[madmen]

Strange posts. IF your over 70 Thailand does not want you at all. You place a burden on their hospitals and funeral parlors. Its the same anywhere else in the world. IMO come here as soon as you can retire and bang everything but get over it at 70 and go back home . Its the best thing to do when your pushing the disease envelope..not everyone dies in their sleep !

[AYJAYDEE]

1 hour ago, madmen said:

Strange posts. IF your over 70 Thailand does not want you at all. You place a burden on their hospitals and funeral parlors. Its the same anywhere else in the world. IMO come here as soon as you can retire and bang everything but get over it at 70 and go back home . Its the best thing to do when your pushing the disease envelope..not everyone dies in their sleep !

Unlike you, many guys have wives and families and are not interested in "banging everything". 

[UKresonant]

7 hours ago, MarkyM3 said:

Question on NHS care entitlement (I am not currently retired at age of 48 but plan to wind down from full-time work in the next couple of years if possible) -

 

If I reside in Thailand for say 8 months of the year and return to the UK for 4 months of the year to work on contract (paying UK taxes on all income obtained during the year, I would rent out my UK property while away), am I able to retain entitlement to NHS care over the course of the year? I receive free prescriptions in the UK for epilepsy (fully controlled for a long time) and TRT so would prefer not to have to de-register from the GP to fund this stuff myself, though I will consider doing so if necessary. I also need to attend annual reviews at hospital for this treatment.  

 

I undertstand that doing a 6 month split shouldn't be an issue in terms of retaining my "ordinarily resident" status in the UK (though I thought I read it was only 3 months outside of EEA countries?) but I definitely prefer to be in Thailand longer than that.   

 

If I can't retain NHS care while in Thailand and fund my epilepsy and TRT medicine myself, is Thai government hospital cover accessible to me if I need it (self-funded)? I assume travel insurance is not practical on visits of 8 months (though I would intend to use a METV) and private cover will be prohibitive given my circumstances.

 

Any comments would help, thanks.

You could read the different guidance on the subject, and then have to read through again, and again...

 

.....a person must spend no more than 3 months of the year (continuously) outside the UK and must be lawfully entitled to return and remain within the UK.....GP managers apparently, if feeling nasty, could ask to de-list you if the could prove you were out of the country for more than three months (continuously)....

 

I have travel insurance that gives unlimited trips (starting and finishing in the UK) of no more 92 days (that kind of gels with the above), many travel insurance companies appear to make up their own definition of residence, so read the small print (can be as short as 180 days, or the trips have a cumulative total days, annual limit). HMRC Residency rules automatic UK if more than 183 days in the UK, then you would have to read the sufficient ties test, to ensure you remain resident (if your not in the UK at 23:59hrs on that day, it does not count).

 

...If you have been at any stage continuously resident in the UK for more than 10 years (at any time) or have more than 10 years continuous Crown Service. You should remain free of charge for, anything that arises when you are in the UK...

 

Payment of UK tax has no bearing on the subject apparently!

 

That's just some highlights I've picked out.

 

(The renting of your property may be better defined as, rent a room, if more than one bedroom, and you retain payment of at least one address/uk associated regular bill????)

[Rally123]

5 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

It was intended for Myanmar, Cambodian, Lao workers only,

Then why was one of the conditions of obtaining it was that you had to be having a Yellow Book? A migrant worker doesn't qualify to get a Yellow Book. The condition of having to be a migrant worker was used as a cop out clause when they realised they'd messed up big time due to the amount of farang applying IMO.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, Rally123 said:

Then why was one of the conditions of obtaining it was that you had to be having a Yellow Book?

There were no such conditions under the scheme to have a Yellow book.

 

2 hours ago, Rally123 said:

A migrant worker doesn't qualify to get a Yellow Book.

They qualify to register as a foreigner, just as much as you or I do under the Civil Registration Act.

“Section 38. The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration
for persons without Thai nationality having been permitted to stay temporarily and
those having been giving leniency for temporary residence in the Thai Kingdom as a
special case in accordance with law on immigration and the declaration of the Cabinet
and their children born within the Thai Kingdom.

 

[marcusarelus]

7 hours ago, madmen said:

Strange posts. IF your over 70 Thailand does not want you at all. You place a burden on their hospitals and funeral parlors. Its the same anywhere else in the world. IMO come here as soon as you can retire and bang everything but get over it at 70 and go back home . Its the best thing to do when your pushing the disease envelope..not everyone dies in their sleep !

Does Thailand have funeral parlors?  All I've seen is Wat's with tall chimneys.  They are always happy for the business.  

[RPCVguy]

I've posted early in this thread - read many other comments and see no single solution that serves all of us expats. I've married here to a woman near my age, so gained an instant family. One daughter I've already put through college, and the eldest granddaughter just graduated from secondary school.  Together we as a family do well with complementary skill sets. Moving away from this extended family is not an option I would adopt, this is our home. We've literally put down roots with many trees in the yard now mature and fruitful.

After reading hundreds of related posts I offer this proposal as is a more suitable option than the straight insurance option.
 

[The Cobra]

I dont understand the fuss and uproar, if the class of visa calls for medical insurance and you cant afford or cannot get the insurance, just change the visa class, there is always a way, and I for one sure as hell wouldnt let it rip my family apart.

There is always a way, may not be ideal, may not be as convenient but there IS always an alternative.

[Graviton]

3 hours ago, FredGallaher said:

I don't know, but if you look in the "Insurance Form" there is a "ThaiVisa Health Insurance Project" listed. Is ThaiVisa in the health insurance business? It might explain what going on here. 

I think this is Hagalien Dialectic??

[Rally123]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

They qualify to register as a foreigner, just as much as you or I do under the Civil Registration Act.

“Section 38. The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration
for persons without Thai nationality having been permitted to stay temporarily and
those having been giving leniency for temporary residence in the Thai Kingdom as a
special case in accordance with law on immigration and the declaration of the Cabinet
and their children born within the Thai Kingdom.

Agreed on the above but I believe it to involve a 'Pink ID Card' not a 'Yellow Book".

[Melbun]

On 5/16/2019 at 4:51 AM, AYJAYDEE said:

If you could, they would have said you could

 

Wow this post has been going on for ages. And it's now going around in circles. My feeling is that you must buy a policy from an insurance company. Why ?? because even if you at present have the funds to deal with health contingencies, that money may evaporate for some reason. Then you will expect the Thais to foot the bill. Some may say TIT but they are not silly. Everyone here has to come to grips that you will have to insure yourselves "no iff's or buts" . There may be no alternative - other than going back to your previous home land - which seems very distasteful to many.

[Graviton]

1 minute ago, Melbun said:

Wow this post has been going on for ages. And it's now going around in circles. My feeling is that you must buy a policy from an insurance company. Why ?? because even if you at present have the funds to deal with health contingencies, that money may evaporate for some reason. Then you will expect the Thais to foot the bill. Some may say TIT but they are not silly. Everyone here has to come to grips that you will have to insure yourselves "no iff's or buts" . There may be no alternative - other than going back to your previous home land - which seems very distasteful to many.

Everybody is missing the point here.

฿305 mill baht bill not collected, not law abiding retirees responsibility for paying other peoples bills, its a measly £7 million

And its the OA brigade not retirees. 

 

The mandatory plaster would cost

฿56,000,000,000 a year for the 700k western Expats alone. So its not for people living here for years. The math doesn't stack up.

 

Also what is the 400k in the bank untouchable indefinitely for then?

 

[Pattaya46]

4 minutes ago, Graviton said:

The mandatory plaster would cost ฿56,000,000,000 a year for the 700k western Expats alone. //

Wrong. Barely 10% of them concerned by this change. (O-A)

[Graviton]

26 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Wrong. Barely 10% of them concerned by this change. (O-A)

So are we in agreement that it's the OA lot not us extension of stay? If not why not 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Graviton said:

So are we in agreement that it's the OA lot not us extension of stay? If not why not 

I called Pacific cross and they said 0-X visa and maybe in the future 0-A visa. But the insurance requirements for the O-A (1 Year Visa) have not yet been determined.  Why Pacific Cross or another company has not posted this in the insurance forum is beyond me. 

[sqwakvfr]

I’m part of the OA Brigade or Lot and I have always had Health Insurance and always paid my medical/dental bills.  My time in LOS is slowly coming to an end.  

[marcusarelus]

42 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I’m part of the OA Brigade or Lot and I have always had Health Insurance and always paid my medical/dental bills.  My time in LOS is slowly coming to an end.  

Why?  No confirmation of ins required for O-A visas. 

[Graviton]

50 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I’m part of the OA Brigade or Lot and I have always had Health Insurance and always paid my medical/dental bills.  My time in LOS is slowly coming to an end.  

Good. I've been here 17yrs my point really is it is impossible for us not to pay, presented with a bill before treatment.. I self insure with 10 mill in the bank....

[Isaan Alan]

what next?

 

[Enki]

On 5/20/2019 at 4:17 AM, sirineou said:

But are we residents, or are we visitors with an extension to stay, only good for a year? If we are residents why can't we buy into the same insurance scheme available to other Thai residents ?

 

 

Never heard that you can't, what would be the point?

[Melbun]

8 hours ago, Isaan Alan said:

what next?

 

More Thai Visa Roadblock for Cheap Charlies? New Mandatory Health Insurance

- Youtube

By Keyframes5 Thailand.

 

Look it up - lots of common sense answers for those still wondering , also lots of info on youtube about this issue.

[inThailand]

Are tourists and married guys the biggest groups needing accident and health insurance? Motorbike or katoy accidents and wife's trying to cash in early. 

[SpokaneAl]

Are tourists and married guys the biggest groups needing accident and health insurance? Motorbike or katoy accidents and wife's trying to cash in early. 

If it applies only to those with a non imm o-a multi entry visa, none of the categories you mention apply.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Thaivisa Health Protect]

On 5/20/2019 at 7:38 PM, CLS said:

Compare Platinum 1 for Long Stay with Standard Plus premiums.
Same same - but big difference
https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en/health-insurance/longstay-visa/

https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Standard_Plan-Edit-1.pdf



Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Hi Everyone,

 

I work for Pacific Cross/Thai Visa Protect.

 

Sorry I am unable to reply to every post.  That is impossible currently, the announcement took us by surprise and was overwhelming with the amount of calls and emails that came in.  To compound matters many people thought this applied to them when in fact not.  If you have got in touch please be patient and everyone will be responded to in due course.

 

Firstly, a point I made earlier that some may have not seen.  We have a plan that meets the visa requirement for NON O A and NON O X.  If you are on a marriage VIsa or NON O yearly extension the mandated insurance does NOT apply to you.  I can't say that the government over time will not roll this out to all visas, I suspect they may, as we all may agree its difficult to say what is around the corner legislation wise.

 

Let me be very clear, we more than anyone realise what a bad initiative this is in terms of coverage.  The plans available to not provide anywhere near the same value and coverage that the former products Thai Visa Protect plans or PCHI plans can provide.

 

May I address the difference in premiums and coverage.  The underwriters and actuaries know that because this product is only applicable to over 50's the expected claims histories and loss ratios will be much higher than the historic products available.  Therefore they have priced accordingly (FYI my understanding is that of the 6 approved vendors we are more competitive than the competition).   That is why the coverage for the premium is less value than the historic plans that can insure from 0-75yrs as a new applicant.  It's a completely different risk profile.  Though on face value I would also question why the differences in ratings. 

 

We would like, more than anyone, that the government allows ANY plan, ours or not, that meets or exceeds the mandated amount to be suffice to obtain the visa.  We are not comfortable selling these designated Long Stay visa plans, not only are they terrible cover, the premiums are expensive when comparing to historic plans.  At this juncture if you need the insurance to meet the requirement we have the approved plan to facilitate that.  That is not to say this is a good plan coverage or value wise!  

 

On a more general note, as I have seen so much misinformation being posted, we can accept new applicants up to 75yrs, over 65's are required to complete a physical exam.  Unlike moratorium plans we fully underwrite each policy, SO BEFORE you decide to accept the offer or not the coverage terms will be in black and white on the offer letter, any exclusions or wait periods will be laid out on the offer letter.  We renew up to 99yrs of age.  As long as an applicant has truthfully and correctly declared everything on the application your policy cannot be terminated.   We are one of the very few onshore companies that can consider some pre existing conditions, we may load a premium to accommodate it, apply a wait period or flat out exclude it.  Each application is looked at on a case by case basis.

 

We do not impose routine inflationary increases, our base rates haven't changed since 2015.  We individually experience rate each renewal.  What does this mean?

 

This will appear 'salesy' to some but I am again trying to be as informative as possible. Most companies typically apply 8-15% year on year, irrespective of your claims history whether large small or none.  Some companies may increase less and some certainly more.  With Thai Visa protect and Pacific Cross plans, if you have made no claims we have discounts rising to 20%, if you have moderate claims (i.e. approx <80% of premium paid) we will hold rates the following year.  If you have claimed around or over the premium paid the company reserves the right to load the premium renewal, whether you have claimed 100,000, 1,000,000 or 10,000,000 the maximum loading that can apply to the renewal premium is 25%.  If the following year the condition has no re-occurrence we can remove that 25% loading at the next renewal.  Contrary to some online experts, this does NOT mean we would just load each year until someone is priced out to continue.  We are capped at 3 consecutive loadings.  If you premium has been loaded for 3 years that is IT.  Personally I would prefer to have an increase in the event of high claims as opposed to yearly increases irrespective of claims history.  But of course that is my opinion, and most of you would expect me to say that.

 

I feel awfully sorry for people on this visa type, and concerned about people who are not able to purchase insurance whether they are over 75 or un-insurable,   Again I hope the relevant parties can come to a proper well thought out structure and outcome.

 

 

[Graviton]

I realised this but here is the question...........

thai health left with 305 million baht debt not the private sector.

 

If 700,000 western expats took out health insurance that would be

56,000,000,000 baht a year leaving Thailand? Yes there would be claims..... I think it more prudent to come up with a sensible fig buy government hospitals 5-10k a year then its a win win.

[Graviton]

16 hours ago, Enki said:

Never heard that you can't, what would be the point?

30 baht card? Use government hospitals.......

[Andrew Dwyer]

Hi Everyone,
 
I work for Pacific Cross/Thai Visa Protect.
 
Sorry I am unable to reply to every post.  That is impossible currently, the announcement took us by surprise and was overwhelming with the amount of calls and emails that came in.  To compound matters many people thought this applied to them when in fact not.  If you have got in touch please be patient and everyone will be responded to in due course.
 
Firstly, a point I made earlier that some may have not seen.  We have a plan that meets the visa requirement for NON O A and NON O X.  If you are on a marriage VIsa or NON O yearly extension the mandated insurance does NOT apply to you.  I can't say that the government over time will not roll this out to all visas, I suspect they may, as we all may agree its difficult to say what is around the corner legislation wise.
 

 
 

Once again one of the principal questions about this mandatory health insurance has not been fully clarified !!

Do you need mandatory health insurance if you are on an extension of stay based on retirement originating from an OA visa ??

[marcusarelus]

I have insurance and only need the 40,000 baht outpatient insurance.  Can you do that if I give you 40,000 baht?

[Graviton]

2 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Once again one of the principal questions about this mandatory health insurance has not been fully clarified !!

Do you need mandatory health insurance if you are on an extension of stay based on retirement originating from an OA visa ??

Do you do your extensions at immigration? If so a valid unanswered question.