Expats overwhelmingly support mandatory health insurance of over 50s: Poll

[killala]

Okay, here’s the situation. I’m 63 and have been retired in Hua Hin for 4 years. Financially sound and use cash on deposit for my non O retirement visa as I have one decent private pension but can’t be bothered going through the hoops with letters of support etc etc. Own home, own car and bike and on a monthly basis spend a significant amount into the local economy and I’m far from unique. When I need medical treatment ( which is often) I go to the local Bangkok Hospital here in town get treated, pay my bill and everyone’s happy. I’ve pre existing conditions which rule out any form of health insurance so here in lies the rub. If I’m forced out of the country by not being able to renew my visa who is going to lose? Not me as I’ll sell up and head down to Penang. 

Some people are trying to bite or indeed cut off the hand that feeds them. Thai logic at its finest. I really do think Thailand is a fab country and the general population are on the whole a sound race of people but sadly run by a complete bunch of clowns. I shall miss Thailand enormously. 

[Uptooyoo]

I have much more than the 440,000 baht the minimum coverage would pay out in my checking account. So why am I required to buy a policy that pays out less than what I have available for medical emergencies? Is the goal to enrich Thai insurance companies with a stream of monthly payments from expats? I agree you should have insurance if you don't have the funds for medical emergencies, but some of us do and shouldn't be required to buy insurance.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Uptooyoo
clarification

[Max77]

What  a joke. Why dont they just get to the point and just ban foreighners from living here altogether. First telling us where to keep our money even tho we can prove sufficient income. Now telling us what to do with our health and how we choose to care for our selves. Anyone that chooses to bend over and be treated like that is pathetic.  I dont know who voted on that "poll " ,( more than likely thais and idiot back packers),   but its none of the expats I know. Some of which are leaving . You dont need to put up with this garbage in Colombia , Vietnam, Philippines, Ecuador or Mexico places I lived for an extended period of time which were nice and where I  wasn't harrased half as much as thailand. (BTW My income is 3x the required amt.)

[Ricebarnandrooms]

5 hours ago, Wake Up said:

living in a foreign country and not entitled to anything

It is a shame that you dont follow your own name. WAKE UP the majority of expats, ie people who have been here for many years and who respect the fact that they are guests in this country and abide by the laws and immigration requirements without question, and yet you seem to believe that we dont already contribute large sums of money in the form of funds in the bank that we cant use. You fail to recognize that many of us are of an age that insurance premiums if we are accepted are high for those on Thai income base. You haven't considered those who have been refused medical insurance, Why should I after 20 years here be put in the position where I would have to leave. Perhaps we all have an extra 400000 Baht hidden in the sock draw....WAKE UP 

[SpaceKadet]

Can't imagine many over 50 would use ThaiVisa Fecesbook page..... I certainly don't.

Would reflect in the poll. Why not post it on the site here? Scared what the results might be?

[JGV]

This poll is clever to avoid the main issue - The health insurance is sensible but long term visa holders are already expected to deposit 800,000 Baht into an account in Thailand as a condition of receiving a Year visa - that money is clearly mandatory and logically would be accessed for payments for health care that is substantial - the same reason why people buy health insurance - so I ask those in support would they also be willing to deposit 800,000 Baht or equivalent in dollars or pounds in addition to paying a hefty medical insurance premium - I think the answer would be very few - less than 5% - the rich and wealthy who can avoid anything would say yes - the rest of us receiving small pensions see this new condition as a way to make a quick buck for the insurance companies and doctors and has nothing to do with the abuse by a handful of farang who fail to pay their medical bill and do a runner - If the government are so concerned about health insurance cover then maybe they can reduce the 800,00 baht condition to 100.000 to enable those on fixed pensions to get health insurance

[geoffrobbo]

8 hours ago, jaltsc said:

"According to a straw poll on the Thaivisa Facebook page..."

 

Well, that's about as highly scientific and objective as it gets in Thailand. The only other research method which would represent the epitome of "science" in Thailand is if every respondent copied from the first one (aka - The smart kid) to answer the question. 

 

I would think that if there was a truly objective and scientific poll conducted, the majority or respondents would answer: "I'm moving to Vietnam. Where, if I choose to deposit $26,000 into a bank, it would earn me a decent amount of interest". 

yep, and that is why it is called a "straw poll"

"A straw poll or straw vote is an ad-hoc or unofficial vote."

[chilly07]

Absolute rubbish like everything else on Facebook. Anyone who thinks the self selecting views of any Facebook group is representative of Thai expats needs their head's examining. Please do not to give any further money making ideas to TI! or those thieves in the insurance industry!

[Okis]

Just get the proper insurance for living in Thailand. 

 

Just like most of you guys in this thread now and then will tell people to get the proper visa for living in Thailand. 

 

I mean it works the same in western countries ????????

[Ricebarnandrooms]

37 minutes ago, killala said:

Okay, here’s the situation. I’m 63 and have been retired in Hua Hin for 4 years. Financially sound and use cash on deposit for my non O retirement visa as I have one decent private pension but can’t be bothered going through the hoops with letters of support etc etc. Own home, own car and bike and on a monthly basis spend a significant amount into the local economy and I’m far from unique. When I need medical treatment ( which is often) I go to the local Bangkok Hospital here in town get treated, pay my bill and everyone’s happy. I’ve pre existing conditions which rule out any form of health insurance so here in lies the rub. If I’m forced out of the country by not being able to renew my visa who is going to lose? Not me as I’ll sell up and head down to Penang. 

Some people are trying to bite or indeed cut off the hand that feeds them. Thai logic at its finest. I really do think Thailand is a fab country and the general population are on the whole a sound race of people but sadly run by a complete bunch of clowns. I shall miss Thailand enormously. 

Killala's  response is absolutely right. Perfect except selling up is difficult. Its a bit like the 1930's in Oklahoma dust bowel, we all think things will get better next year but it only gets worse. At what point do we say its time to move on..

[elliss]

8 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

And just how many of those responding to the supposed survey were over 50?, and have deep roots here?, and...

 

 

And , probably mostly tourists @ swampy .

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by elliss

[Cake Monster]

8 hours ago, Geordie59 said:

You have to wonder how they came up with this idea for OA visas but not the Non O based on retirement?

Yet another idea that hasn't been thought through. 

The prices being quoted of around 60k Baht for the 400k baht of cover seem very high as well. There are cheaper alternatives available already. Will this push those premiums up?

The premiums on these mandatory Health Insurance Policies will be open to a massive rip off of Foreign Nationals, with  huge price rises in the premiums now.

Just another way to extort money from Expats here.

 

[elliss]

27 minutes ago, Ricebarnandrooms said:

 Why should I after 20 years here be put in the position where I would have to leave.

 

   i totally agree , after some 16 years in Thailand.

  I am certainly looking into my limited options. 

  Relocate in Asia ,  or reluctantly return to UK / Rip. with dignity.

                  

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by elliss

[DrTuner]

2 hours ago, sungod said:

Have you started packing at least?

I have.

[Ricebarnandrooms]

3 hours ago, StevieAus said:

The difference is that apart from some countries in this region I cannot think of any Western countries including my own Australia where a fifty year old with the equivalent of 800, 000 baht in the bank can just turn up and live there therefore the issue doesn’t arise

Unless you are a refugee or asylum seeker you have to go through a very rigorous process to obtain residency which as we often read on this site often isn’t granted.

If you are successful you are then entitled certainly in Australia to free treatment.

For others who are visiting they have to pay.

Nobody is saying we don't want to pay for medical treatment,,,,

Happy to pay BUT if you CANNOT get medical insurance, having your VISA declined is ridiculous, even a human rights issue if you are forcibly separated from your family.  Especially as we already have funds tied-up in the bank and perhaps have paid the Thai governments social payments for medical care every month for years..

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, Geordie59 said:

You have to wonder how they came up with this idea for OA visas but not the Non O based on retirement?

Yet another idea that hasn't been thought through.

I suspect that it will be 'thought through' a little more soon.  Although the statement at the moment says that O-A visas and renewals thereof, it is clear who their target group is........from the Phuket News article.......

“The government has found that foreigners who are in their elder years staying on this type of visa have more health issues than other foreigners staying on other types of visas,’ Dr Nutthawut said."

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/cabinet-approves-mandatory-health-insurance-for-long-stay-visas-71424.php#F6oQrIxMbyrCyuXT.97

 

Clearly, there is no difference in the likelihood of health issues between an O-A holder and someone on an extension based upon retirement.

 

If I'm right, Dr. Nutthawut will realise that there is a difference between an O-A and a Non O based on retirement.  Even if he doesn't, you can bet your last dollar that some, if not all, immigration offices will interpret the ruling as covering all retirees.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

50 minutes ago, Ricebarnandrooms said:

It is a shame that you dont follow your own name. WAKE UP the majority of expats, ie people who have been here for many years and who respect the fact that they are guests in this country and abide by the laws and immigration requirements without question, and yet you seem to believe that we dont already contribute large sums of money in the form of funds in the bank that we cant use. You fail to recognize that many of us are of an age that insurance premiums if we are accepted are high for those on Thai income base. You haven't considered those who have been refused medical insurance, Why should I after 20 years here be put in the position where I would have to leave. Perhaps we all have an extra 400000 Baht hidden in the sock draw....WAKE UP 

Agree completely.  The Thai authorities have every right to demand that foreigners have health insurance or sufficient funds to pay themselves.  As I asked on the other thread running on this subject, what is the 400,000 in the bank for?  You can't use it for living expenses or anything else so what is it's purpose?

 

OK, 400,000 may not be a lot in terms of medical treatment but under this new rule, its the amount of cover required.

[Mister Fixit]

9 hours ago, billsmart said:

I'd like to see this poll conducted on Expats over 50, not just everyone on Thaivisa...

And only the TV Facebook page at that.  Hardly a large enough sample.

 

[zydeco]

3 minutes ago, Mister Fixit said:

And only the TV Facebook page at that.  Hardly a large enough sample.

 

According to DeAngelo Higgenbothem, a 19 year old backpacker from mommy and daddy's basement in Fresno, California,  spending 200 baht per day travelling through Southeast Asia, "Yeah, man, it's a great idea. All these people staying for a long time here in Taiwan should have super duper insurance, especially in case the Chinese invade."

[sambum]

9 hours ago, Topdoc said:

I think if you ask the foreigners, aged over 50, who are living here whether they should be required to have mandatory health insurance, the results would be very different. Some of the comments in the article are not from Thai expats

Sorry - not being pedantic, but "Thai expats" could be better worded - you are implying that the expats themselves are Thai. How about "Expats living in Thailand"?

[sambum]

8 hours ago, jollyhangmon said:

 

... yep, pushing the insurance scam ... interesting agenda don't ya think ...?!

 

Then we just learned from esteemed colleague <marcusarelus> who is good friends with mr. google too that the total of faulted medbills (not only by tourists) amounts to 9mio USD out of a total health expenditure of 35bn (2020 est.) ... non-starter right there.

 

Tourist revenue 2018: 62bn USD (google) ... next non-starter.

 

In other words: cost of business, and minimal ones at that!

 

And if they put down their vastly overpriced charges in some private hospitals, it would be even more minimal!

[eddysmit]

10 hours ago, coxo said:

Health insurance in the form of accident and emergency is ok, as far as outpatient that is just BS.

As you say a fair emergency cover would be fine so that a card could be shown when arriving at a hospital or clinic, with like a car insurance type of 'No Claims' bonus involved, that way it would be a reasonable yearly, monthly payment, then age would not make payments almost impossible, I would think that would keep the Thai authorities happy,then again, not a lot of room for 'maneuvering' cash around.

[sambum]

8 hours ago, woofwoof said:

My question when you hit 70 what happens when no one wants to cover you. What's the 800,000 baht for if you can't use it to pay the hospital bill?

Oh, you can use it - but only half of it, and only after 6 months have elapsed since you deposited it. Oh,  and you just have to top it up again to 800,000 baht 3 months before your next extension is due.

[sambum]

8 hours ago, Surasak said:

Many people retiring at 65yrs can't get health insurance for one reason or another. NO insurance company will take on anyone past 70 yrs. Insurance companys are natorious for making any excuse not to pay, then how do you cope? All insurance companys are a total rip-off, they do not consider a no claims bonus for health care, just pile on the premiums year after year. 

How many of you people who advocate this insurance, have started out with a reasonable annual premium, only to find it has now gone thru the roof and become unaffordable?

The only point I disagree with in your post is the "NO insurance company .........past 70 years" is wrong.

There are a few that will cover over 70's, but their premiums are way too expensive for me. Also some specify insurance past a certain age on a renewal basis only, but there again - pricey! For example:-

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by sambum

[Mitkof Island]

3 minutes ago, sambum said:

Oh, you can use it - but only half of it, and only after 6 months have elapsed since you deposited it. Oh,  and you just have to top it up again to 800,000 baht 3 months before your next extension is due.

And a excellent chance the insurance companies will make up any excuse not to pay. And example you pay $2,000 a year at the cheapest rate that covers 400,000 baht about $12,000. In five years time you have already blown the $12,000 . I would prefer just to put the money aside and make a choice myself as to what i do with it. Besides in my case Medicare in the states would cover much. Agree that you should pay for your hospital bills and not be a burden to Thailand. Perhaps have it that the hospital check your bank account and see if you have enough. If not well your dead. I prefer freedom of choice. Worse case you dump the Thai wife and kids and move elsewhere. Enough foreigners leave maybe the government might wake up to the fact their brainstorm idea was a disaster.

[Mavideol]

5 hours ago, StevieAus said:

If this is the case then why are the hospitals not being paid?

On the occasions I have visited both private and public hospitals in Thailand I have never been asked to surrender my passport I have been treated and asked to pay at the end.

Perhaps I have an honest face or not considered fit enough to do a runner !!

 

 

that's how it worked for me and my family as well, got to the public hospital, wife had minor surgery, stayed over night, next day was informed that we could check out, nurse handed me the invoice and told me to go to the cashier and return with receipt, need to give her copy (cashier gave me 3 colored receipts 1 for the nurse 1 for the pharmacy and 1 for us) did that she called some office to confirm and we were able to leave, if payment was not made we couldn't have left the room

[eddysmit]

Just a thought with this medical insurance, I don't know if its just my limited experience or I'm mistaken, but when I have seen or heard people use medical insurance(not the two week holiday type) not only will the cost jump up but, also they only cover up to so much of the costs,you or claimant have to cover the rest, and if you do make a claim up shoots the premiums the following year.

[dlclark97]

Bottom line is many expats are retired military and have Trlcare insurance.  Many hospitals do not do direct billing, the veteran pays and then files a claim for PARTIAL reimbursement.  More often as far as foreigners are concerned it is the visitor to Thailand who rents a motorbike, has an accident and either can't or won't pay for medical care.  A fee should be collected from EVERY visitor say, 500 or 1000 baht to be placed in a  fund for hospitals when foreigners sustain injuries or health issues and do not pay.  For the permanent expat residents, let them self insure putting 400,000 in a fixed account at the bank.  These permanent residents are supporting families in Thailand, providing some electrical, plumbing and other works to others as needed around their homes and family property.  Last, health insurance for anyone over the age of 70 or with preexisting conditions is either totally not available or priced beyond reason. 

[sambum]

3 minutes ago, eddysmit said:

Just a thought with this medical insurance, I don't know if its just my limited experience or I'm mistaken, but when I have seen or heard people use medical insurance(not the two week holiday type) not only will the cost jump up but, also they only cover up to so much of the costs,you or claimant have to cover the rest, and if you do make a claim up shoots the premiums the following year.

I was denied the cost of "root canal and crown" treatment because their records showed that I had made  a similar claim before! So you are only allowed to have toothache once if you want to claim on the insurance!

[fordguy61mi]

If you can’t afford health insurance in Thailand then you can’t afford to be in Thailand. (Which apparently a lot of these commenters on here fall into).