Mandatory health insurance for foreigners aged over 50 in Thailand - why it may not affect you

[haymanpl]

53 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Somebody without the proverbial pot to p!ss in?

It's not just about putting it in, thats the easy part. Try getting it out. It was a nightmare trying to get 500,000 baht out.

[garyk]

10 to one it will be a sweep across the board. 

What a total mess.

[tingtongtourist]

11 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Why would you want Immigration Officers verify this insurance when you arrive in Thailand ?? 

No need. far easier to verify it in their foreign embassies or their local immigration offices.

yes but what about when O-A holders does a border run to come back in and stay for a second year?

Id say they will want to verify the insurance policy is still goes for 2nd year?

 

So will they check the paperwork at all borders?

 

or maybe they excuse us from doing the border runs and just show your paperwork at offices such as CW?

555

 

or everyone just end up getting 1 year of cover and thats it? 

 

 

 

 

[carbon007]

11 hours ago, Searat7 said:

Thanks but this does not answer my question . My friend obtained his first type 0 based on retirement in Bangkok last year. Is he eligible to get a re-entry permit before expiration date which would give him a second year without applying for extension of stay ?

You friend is now in possession of a Non-Immigrant O visa which has not yet expired. On i it says number of entries. If it is 'M' this means multiple within expiration date.

With this in hand he can not apply for re-entry permit as he already has this permit.

 

If your friend is here on his 2nd year after Non-Immigrant O visa with en extension of permission to stay for RETIREMENT (which is not a visa) he can apply for re-entry permit but the given permit will expire the same date as the permission to stay.

So a re-entry permit can not 'give a second year'

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to a foreign language site has been removed as this is an English language forum. English is the only acceptable language anywhere on ThaiVisa including Classifieds, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

[brewsterbudgen]

yes but what about when O-A holders does a border run to come back in and stay for a second year?
Id say they will want to verify the insurance policy is still goes for 2nd year?
 
So will they check the paperwork at all borders?
 
or maybe they excuse us from doing the border runs and just show your paperwork at offices such as CW?
555
 
or everyone just end up getting 1 year of cover and thats it? 
 
 
 
 

I don't think it will apply as activating a 2nd year is still with the original OA visa. When the visa expires and you apply for a new one (the misnamed "renewal") in your home country you will insurance.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tingtongtourist]

4 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I don't think it will apply as activating a 2nd year is still with the original OA visa. When the visa expires and you apply for a new one (the misnamed "renewal") in your home country you will insurance.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

As i understand you can exit before the first year is up and come back in through IMMs at a land border to start the second year.

 

Im asking how and when they will verify you have the insurance for a 2nd year?

when you go through that border?

How will some somchai at Cambodian border read/ identify French or whatever insurance policys?

[Pattaya46]

12 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

I'm asking how and when they will verify you have the insurance for a 2nd year? when you go through that border?

I bet they won't. Not worth it.

BTW if you managed to get an Insurance to get your O-A Visa, why wouldn't you keep it for the second year? It's important to have one, mainly in a foreign country.

[AYJAYDEE]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

I bet they won't. Not worth it.

BTW if you managed to get an Insurance to get your O-A Visa, why wouldn't you keep it for the second year? It's important to have one, mainly in a foreign country.

because the premiums are too high for the inadequate 400,000 policy. not worth it

[Pattaya46]

25 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

I'm asking how and when they will verify you have the insurance for a 2nd year?

5 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

because the premiums are too high for the inadequate 400,000 policy. not worth it

 

So as usual, the rules are not yet in application that some people are already trying to find a loophole to pay less, to pay half, ... 

[AYJAYDEE]

28 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

So as usual, the rules are not yet in application that some people are already trying to find a loophole to pay less, to pay half, ... 

of course. its a shakedown

[Thaidream]

As was  mentioned in the article- when the O-X Visa was introduced- the same PR info went out and everyone thought this would be the long stay visa and all the others eliminated. Did not happen.

 

When one obtains the O-X Visa- insurance is required as well as 3 Million Baht in a Thai Bank.  One still has to go to Immigration each year to 'prove' that one still meets the criteria-insurance and the money.

 

IMO- the current O-A Visa will now have the same insurance requirement -checked by the Thai Embassy abroad which also checks your health certificate and money in the bank.  When one extended this visa at Thai Immigration- the same requirements will be checked- insurance and money in the bank.  Very easy for Immigration to view your original O-A Visa sticker.  If one crosses the border and gets a year extension I doubt the Imm Officer at the land border or airport will mostly care but  just like the requirement to show 20K- they only ask certain people to show it.

 

The rest of the foreigners in Thailand enter on other Visas- Non O or conversions to Non O- Since these are all extensions or conversions- there appears to be nothing in the law requiring insurance.   The same for those married to a Thai- they are not retired but using the marriage provision.

 

I do believe this will be a test to see how smoothly it  goes for the O-A requirement and if the same number of people come into Thailand for retirement under this method as before or balk at the insurance requirement and the numbers go down as foreigners choose other  countries.

 

The sad thing about all this is that almost everyone wants to have some type of medical coverage but those who are elderly (or anyone)can hardly afford to spend almost 100K for just 400K of coverage and include outpatient coverage which just drives up the cost. In the West while medical insurance is mandatory in some countries- there are no pre existing conditions- there are no exclusions and everyone gets coverage. 

 

The real solution for everyone is to tack on a surcharge to all Visas issued at Embassies/Consulates as part of a medical pool and those who apply and are granted an extension of stay be allowed to 'buy into' the Thai Social Security medical program for xx amount per month. This would allow use of Thai Government Hospitals with unlimited coverage- in and out patient and for private hospitals that recognized the scheme.

 

The fact is that the Government Hospitals are underfunded and the losses they are claiming are not foreigners being treated at Government Hospitals.  Those of us that have used Government Hospitals have paid our bills. Very Low Income Thais who are treated under the 30 Baht scheme are the main reason for these hospitals running at a deficit and the inadequacy of the Government providing a proper operating budget.

 

If every foreigner left today- it wouldn't make much difference in the situation affecting Government hospital.

 

The real issue is for profit hospitals who have treated serious accident victims; falls down mountains and other  serious situations with most of these individuals casual visitors/tourists whose  travel insurance won't pay out or they have none.

 

This is nothing but a scam to assist insurance companies; for profit hospitals and their minions who abet this situation and put the blame where it doesn't belong- foreigners.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Thaidream

[monkfish]

From what I hear the Story is based on a leak and there's been no official statement so better just wait a bit.

[madmen]

There will be thousands of policies in different languages and the Thais being mental giants won't even know where to start.

Sent from my star using Tapatalk

[SupermarineS6B]

Next it'll be, insurance offered by three companies...... Prayut, Prayut and sons, and Prayuts brother........Of course all non refundable and totally useless when required..... " You no like, you go home"....... What has happened to this wonderful country ? 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I don't think it will apply as activating a 2nd year is still with the original OA visa. When the visa expires and you apply for a new one (the misnamed "renewal") in your home country you will insurance.
 

 

If they do implement something for O-As, I'm GUESSING, the operative word at this point being GUESSING, that they'll do as you described above.

 

The verification part will probably rest with the Consulates and Embassies abroad at O-A issuance time, where the staff presumably can speak and understand the local language at least to some extent, unlike Thai Immigration.

 

I seriously doubt any insurance requirement enforcement for O-A visas is going to be done at any other time than when they're issued.... and not when the holder does any in-out trips from Thailand under an already issued O-A that's met the insurance requirement in order to be issued.

 

[brianthainess]

On 5/15/2019 at 1:03 PM, dcnx said:

Not yet. It will apply to everyone eventually.

 

Then that will give some of us no choice,but to leave at 6000 baht a month for insurance, which is more than i spend on FOOD !

[brianthainess]

On 5/15/2019 at 1:55 PM, Kay McDonnell said:

Maybe media outlets should clarify the information before announcing these statements in future. 

Yes as on inquiring about this subject to immigration my friend was told not to read newspapers,some sound advice indeed !

[brianthainess]

On 5/15/2019 at 1:59 PM, Vacuum said:

And miss a lot of clicks?

And adds for insurance !

[ThaiPauly]

My visa agent says it does not apply to me, only to people getting visas from abroad.

 

We have spent the best part of a week fretting about nothing

[Peterw42]

5 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

My visa agent says it does not apply to me, only to people getting visas from abroad.

 

We have spent the best part of a week fretting about nothing

If you are using an agent then half the rules don't apply to you. Agents can get you an extension without the money in the bank/seasoning etc, if insurance comes in they will probably be able to get extensions without the insurance.

[brianthainess]

On 5/15/2019 at 2:50 PM, boonrawdcnx said:

Nobody believes the lie that long term residents on retirement or marriage extensions are cheating hospitals out of their money as we all have to report every 90 and authorities know where we reside.

You are exactly correct, i would like to see real undisputed stats on this,was it immigration failing to track them down,hospital failing to report, it was probably both IF at all. I M O someone is fiddling the books to get the cash and falangs are a good target to blame. As we know hospital staff have been caught in the past.

[wimpy]

On 5/15/2019 at 2:50 PM, boonrawdcnx said:

Nobody believes the lie that long term residents on retirement or marriage extensions are cheating hospitals out of their money as we all have to report every 90 and authorities know where we reside.

When I was an inpatient at Chula for weeks at a time, I had to settle my bill every few days. You can bet treatment wouldn't have continued if I didn't.

[Peterw42]

I think the reason for the insurance has been misrepresented. They are basically saying the system is underfunded treating foreigners.

Thais pay tax then get the advantage of subsidised healthcare, foreigners don't pay tax then use the subsidised healthcare.

 

Any foreigner using the Thai public health , even if they pay (the subsidised rate) in full, is by definition a loss, they didn't pay tax for 20 years to fund the system.

 

Its not the bill at the hospital thats not being paid, its the funding of the system thats not being paid by foreigners.

 

If a Thai person goes to hospital and gets a band-aid, cost of providing the band-aid 100 baht, Thai taxes pays 80 baht and the Thai person pays 20 baht.

If a foreigner gets the band-aid, they pay 20 baht, there is an 80 baht loss

When Thai Gov says they didn't get paid X billions, they are talking about the 80 baht, not the 20 baht.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Peterw42

[brewsterbudgen]

35 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

My visa agent says it does not apply to me, only to people getting visas from abroad.

 

We have spent the best part of a week fretting about nothing

It's only a few BMs who are scaremongering about it applying to Extensions.  In time it could, but there is no indication of it at the moment.

[wimpy]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I think the reason for the insurance has been misrepresented. They are basically saying the system is underfunded treating foreigners.

Thais pay tax then get the advantage of subsidised healthcare, foreigners don't pay tax then use the subsidised healthcare.

 

Any foreigner using the Thai public health , even if they pay (the subsidised rate) in full, is by definition a loss, they didn't pay tax for 20 years to fund the system.

 

Its not the bill at the hospitial thats not being paid, its the funding of the system thats not being paid by foreigners.

 

 

I would bet the vast majority of foreigners use private hospitals. In my 25+ years here, I have always used public hospitals. Rarely have seen another foreigner.

[BritManToo]

18 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Thais pay tax then get the advantage of subsidised healthcare,

Its not the bill at the hospitial thats not being paid, its the funding of the system thats not being paid by foreigners.

80% of the Thai population has never paid any income tax.

And those that do are in a different hospital system (SS)

 

None of the Thais using my local (SanSai) government hospital ever paid income tax, employees with SS use Lanna hospital.

But we all pay VAT and import duties, I could make an argument that foreigners use more imported goods and therefore pay more in taxes than normal Thais.

Edited May 19, 2019 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, wimpy said:

I would bet the vast majority of foreigners use private hospitals. In my 25+ years here, I have always used public hospitals. Rarely have seen another foreigner.

5 trips to my local government hospital in the last month, 100s of Thais each time, I only once saw  one other foreigner (having his leg bandaged).

[Peterw42]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

80% of the Thai population has never paid any income tax.

And those that do are in a different hospital system (SS)

 

None of the Thais using my local government hospital ever paid income tax.

Income tax isnt a huge part of the Thai tax base, its VAT that every thai pays, corporate etc.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Income tax isnt a huge part of the Thai tax base, its VAT that every thai pays, corporate etc.

I spend more than the locals, my pension is 5x their wages, I've been here 10 years.

So by your accounting I should be entitled to the same level of care as an average Thai that's been working 50 years.

 

I'm sorry but your thinking doesn't appear to be very clear on this subject.

Edited May 19, 2019 by BritManToo