Brexit crisis: Commons leader quits, piling pressure on Britain's May

[cleopatra2]

19 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Precisely - and I'm very glad that you've pointed this out.

 

The uk had to pay for their commitments until the end of the budget period - 2020.  And yet the 39bn equates to more than 4 years of payments!

This should help you

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8039

[Basil B]

15 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Only in YOUR dreams

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Ok, wishful thinking, but then if it did happen will you be eating your hat???

[stephenterry]

30 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

What a load of crap drawn up by 'our' remainer govt. and civil service....

 

I stopped reading after:-

 

"the UK’s withdrawal from the EU shouldn’t make any member states financially worse off;"

 

????.....

What it means is that the UK has a responsibility to see out any financial committments. That is what happens when you leave the EU. Live with it. 

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Sorry, but whoever posts their flag atop Mt Moral Highground first gets to claim it for all eternity.

Really?

 

Please show me where I've been deliberately insulting to those with a different opinion.

 

To be fair, I may (rarely) have been mildly insulting from time to time - but nothing like the remainers on this forum!

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

What a ridiculous argument!

 

You are quite right in pointing out that the eu budget period ends in 2020 - and you come up with this crap?!

 

I'd agree that the uk needs to pay until the end of the budget to which they'd agreed - but that ends in 2020 and 39bn to the eu is another 3 to 4 years of payments, without any explanation......

When I say ‘I suspect’ and ‘perhaps’, I mean ‘I suspect’ and ‘perhaps’.

 

These are opinions with doubt attached, not ‘explanations’ of solid fact.

 

In the context of a discussion a perfectly normal way of expressing ‘views’ not ‘statements of fact’.

 

Rather than asking a question then attacking those who respond, try finding out for yourself.

 

 

[evadgib]

1 minute ago, stephenterry said:

What it means is that the UK has a responsibility to see out any financial committments. That is what happens when you leave the EU. Live with it. 

Galileo?

[Basil B]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Galileo?

"Bohemian Rhapsody"???

[stephenterry]

7 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Galileo?

That is what happens when you leave the EU. Live with it.

[dick dasterdly]

31 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Precisely - and I'm very glad that you've pointed this out.

 

The uk had to pay for their commitments until the end of the budget period - 2020.  And yet the 39bn equates to more than 4 years of payments!

 

12 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

What a ridiculous argument!

 

You are quite right in pointing out that the eu budget period ends in 2020 - and you come up with this crap?!

 

I'd agree that the uk needs to pay until the end of the budget to which they'd agreed - but that ends in 2020 and 39bn to the eu is another 3 to 4 years of payments, without any explanation......

 

8 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

What it means is that the UK has a responsibility to see out any financial committments. That is what happens when you leave the EU. Live with it. 

I'm not disagreeing!

 

But the financial commitment ends in 2020 as pointed out by a remain poster!

 

So where on earth does 39bn 'owed' come from - bearing in mind the net uk payment to the eu is around 9bn per year?

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Really?

 

Please show me where I've been deliberately insulting to those with a different opinion.

 

To be fair, I may (rarely) have been mildly insulting from time to time - but nothing like the remainers on this forum!

I never claimed that you were insulting anyone, but my comment was more aimed at the broad brush tactic of both sides of any polarised online argument to portray the opponent as being insulting over any minor comment, thus elevating their own position. 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

I'm not disagreeing!

 

But the financial commitment ends in 2020 as pointed out by a remain poster!

 

So where on earth does 39bn 'owed' come from - bearing in mind the net uk payment to the eu is around 9bn per year?

A good point from which to start your own research.

[evadgib]

7 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

That is what happens when you leave the EU. Live with it.

Reduces the 39bn somewhat though eh?

[dick dasterdly]

30 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Sorry, but whoever posts their flag atop Mt Moral Highground first gets to claim it for all eternity.

 

11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I never claimed that you were insulting anyone, but my comment was more aimed at the broad brush tactic of both sides of any polarised online argument to portray the opponent as being insulting over any minor comment, thus elevating their own position. 

Your initial post above was clearly directed at me....  Please don't try to wriggle out of it.

 

Not that I care much, as it just shows how desperate remainers are to insult those with a different POV ☹️

Edited May 23, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[Basil B]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

I'm not disagreeing!

 

But the financial commitment ends in 2020 as pointed out by a remain poster!

 

So where on earth does 39bn 'owed' come from - bearing in mind the net uk payment to the eu is around 9bn per year?

When we talk nett payment, has not the EU got commitment to some long term projects, so has anyone got any figures for what the EU will still be committed to for years after we leave??? 

 

Like 50% of the estimated £39,000,000,000 HS2 rail project?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Your initial post above was clearly directed at me....  Please don't try to wriggle out of it.

To be honest, I thought it was directed at me.

 

The sign of a good critic is getting complaints from both sides of the house, preferably in equal measure.

[welovesundaysatspace]

 

18 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

So where on earth does 39bn 'owed' come from - bearing in mind the net uk payment to the eu is around 9bn per year?

It was negotiated between the two parties I believe, as a quick fix to end that matter and move on to more urging topics that have to be negotiated.

 

A future PM can scrap it, but then you’re simply back to square one.

 

I would believe the UK, even more so if it was to leave without a deal, had more urging issues to work on and negotiate than haggling over these  numbers or even going through lengthy court procedures. But then Brexit Britain is always good for a laugh. 

[Basil B]

Just wonder what the logic is behind Leadson's decision and timing to quit as commons leader?

 

No secret she is a staunch "Brexiteer"... is it another stab in the back for May or the Tory party on the eve of the EU elections, or to clear the decks to stand for party leader again??? 

 

What is sure is that someone will be deptising for her today by putting forward a time table for the week after next as the houses will be on recess next week. 

[stephenterry]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

I'm not disagreeing!

 

But the financial commitment ends in 2020 as pointed out by a remain poster!

 

So where on earth does 39bn 'owed' come from - bearing in mind the net uk payment to the eu is around 9bn per year?

it is an agreed settlement. There are other liabilities that go beyond 2020, like contributing to the payment of EU pensions, which are quite hefty. The good news is that, after leaving, no new pensions would be added, IMO.

 

Assumed annual path of EU financial settlement payments

£ billion.

Total 2019-2064 £37.1 of which:

1. UK participation in EU annual budgets to 2019-2020 £16.4

2. Reste à liquider 2021-2028 £18.2

3. Other net liabilities 2019-2064 £2.5 

 

The biggy you could circulate is no 2. The EU is bouncing around a huge debt mountain, of which the UK's liability is £18.2bn.

[dick dasterdly]

25 minutes ago, Basil B said:

When we talk nett payment, has not the EU got commitment to some long term projects, so has anyone got any figures for what the EU will still be committed to for years after we leave??? 

 

Like 50% of the estimated £39,000,000,000 HS2 rail project?

The eu were economically illiterate enough to not restrict their budget to the budget period?

 

Incidentally, as far as I can make out, only MPs care about the HS2 rail project, and there is no reason why the eu should continue contributions once (or more importantly - if.....) the uk leaves.

Edited May 23, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Your initial post above was clearly directed at me....  Please don't try to wriggle out of it.

It was most certainly aimed at you so I am definitely not trying to wriggle out of anything. I was pointing out how you resorted to the very tired tactic of complaining about a perceived insult that was, at most, a mild rebuke to you for your earlier challenge of Chomper. In fact, his response was to your post where you wrote:

 

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Please don't make yourself look even more silly.....

Hardly the stuff of convivial discourse.

 

 

[david555]

39 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

I'm not disagreeing!

 

But the financial commitment ends in 2020 as pointed out by a remain poster!

 

So where on earth does 39bn 'owed' come from - bearing in mind the net uk payment to the eu is around 9bn per year?

Probably Farage  pension is a part of it + all the other British E.U. parliament members/ staff  pensions good-by premiums + running commitment where U.K. signed contract for …. , compare it with ANY contract breach or commitment in real life ….especially in a divorce case....

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

It was most certainly aimed at you so I am definitely not trying to wriggle out of anything. I was pointing out how you resorted to the very tired tactic of complaining about a perceived insult that was, at most, a mild rebuke to you for your earlier challenge of Chomper. In fact, his response was to your post where you wrote:

 

Hardly the stuff of convivial discourse.

 

 

Thank you for being honest.

 

Good to know that you consider the mildest rebuke from a leaver an insult - whilst ignoring the myriad of genuine insults from remainers ????!

 

But I'm sure that you are unable to recognise this....

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, david555 said:

Probably Farage  pension is a part of it + all the other British E.U. parliament members/ staff  pensions good-by premiums + running commitment where U.K. signed contract for …. , compare it with ANY contract breach or commitment in real life ….especially in a divorce case....

I'm still at a loss as to why so many posters don't understand that once someone leaves the club/employment terminated - the pension contributions are put on hold and invested.  The previous employer doesn't continue paying!

[david555]

35 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm still at a loss as to why so many posters don't understand that once someone leaves the club/employment terminated - the pension contributions are put on hold and invested.  The previous employer doesn't continue paying!

A club yes , not running commitments for the future , example happy couple buy a car on a loan , ,wifey or husband crash the car.... one blame the other , argument becomes a divorce.... but the loan still have to be paid ….. got It now ?

Same for a credit card , or any other membership , even for that club example if you signed in for 10 years and leave after example 3 years.

You even not REMEMBER your "Tory champi(ng)on Cameron " signed a loud things to get some advantages ….? who where even not enough for the power horny Brits to try avoid to leave E.U. in his cat-fight party …. and the cat-fight keeps going on …. enjoy next decade...

Edited May 23, 2019 by david555

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm still at a loss as to why so many posters don't understand that once someone leaves the club/employment terminated - the pension contributions are put on hold and invested.  The previous employer doesn't continue paying!

That would be true for a 'Pension Fund' based pension scheme, but it is certainly not true for many pensions, the UK's state pension being a prime example. 

 

Also.

 

Pensions are a 'liability' where the pension is guaranteed by the EU, then the EU holds the liability and therefore the 'liability' is distributed across the member nations, the liability of the EU to provide pensions to UK MEPs does not end when the UK leaves the EU and therefore it is sensible that the UK pays its fair share of that liability. 

 

 

 

 

[damascase]

4 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Why the bitterness towards Brexiteers??

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Let me guess............. perhaps because they created the mess the UK is in? 

 

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

Care to elaborate? You believe the EU won’t get their 39bn if May’s deal doesn’t go through? Next you’ll tell us that the UK had already left on 29 March. 

 

You'd be surprised to learn how many loony Brexiteers in the UK really believe we have "legally" left!

[Baerboxer]

26 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That would be true for a 'Pension Fund' based pension scheme, but it is certainly not true for many pensions, the UK's state pension being a prime example. 

 

Also.

 

Pensions are a 'liability' where the pension is guaranteed by the EU, then the EU holds the liability and therefore the 'liability' is distributed across the member nations, the liability of the EU to provide pensions to UK MEPs does not end when the UK leaves the EU and therefore it is sensible that the UK pays its fair share of that liability. 

 

 

 

 

 

In many businesses, going bust means their employees future pensions are lost.

 

MPs and MEP's don't suffer this and have often been a big factor in the loss of people's employment. Perhaps the EU and UK should simply state that the pensions of former British MEP's will be frozen at today's contribution. Period.

 

 

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You'd be surprised to learn how many loony Brexiteers in the UK really believe we have "legally" left!

Any credible sources to back up that statement? How many? Numbers please.

 

Or just another unsubstantiated claim (and of course an insult thrown in for good measure)?

[evadgib]

13 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You'd be surprised to learn how many loony Brexiteers in the UK really believe we have "legally" left!

What did you make of Miller supporters in the same position?

 

Here's a snippet from Farage & 'Mr Barraclough' yesterday: 

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by evadgib