Pro-Europe vote fragments but limits nationalist gains in EU election

[Laughing Gravy]

14 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/may/26/european-elections-2019-results-eu-election-parliament-brexit-party-farage-tories-may-live

Statistics showing a fabricated truth. The Tories and Labour all supported Brexit in their manifestos. Add them up with the Brexit party and the claim in the title is rubbished. You can always count on the Guardian newspaper for the spin.

[welovesundaysatspace]

18 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Statistics showing a fabricated truth. The Tories and Labour all supported Brexit in their manifestos. Add them up with the Brexit party and the claim in the title is rubbished. You can always count on the Guardian newspaper for the spin.

Are you actually believing your own nonsense? Both main parties campaigned for Remain. Both of them voted against a hard Brexit in parliament. There was a single-topic Brexit party everyone could have voted for. Now as you realize only a third support them you’re trying to tell us Brexiteers actually voted Labour or Tory? 

 

There is no majority for (hard) Brexit. Spin it as you like.

Edited May 27, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[baansgr]

29 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/may/26/european-elections-2019-results-eu-election-parliament-brexit-party-farage-tories-may-live

Dont you just love the Guardian and their false biased reporting, maybe that's why they have very few readers except for the tree hugging bearded student lefties from the seventies.

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Statistics showing a fabricated truth. The Tories and Labour all supported Brexit in their manifestos. Add them up with the Brexit party and the claim in the title is rubbished. You can always count on the Guardian newspaper for the spin.

What nonsense. The leadership of Labour may have supported Brexit but a big majority of their voters did not. And a significant minority of Conservative voters didn't either. To claim these voters for Brexit is grounded only in wishful thinking.

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Dont you just love the Guardian and their false biased reporting, maybe that's why they have very few readers except for the tree hugging bearded student lefties from the seventies.

What number exactly is false? 

[baansgr]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

What nonsense. The leadership of Labour may have supported Brexit but a big majority of their voters did not. And a significant minority of Conservative voters didn't either. To claim these voters for Brexit is grounded only in wishful thinking.

As is to say they were remainers. Fact and figures show what people want, unless leave gained 100% of all eligible votes, the remoaners and the Guardian will always come out with some rubbish. Sour grapes, its laughable 

[baansgr]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

What number exactly is false? 

Read posts before replying is always best

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Are you actually believing your own nonsense? Both main parties campaigned for Remain. Both of them voted again a hard Brexit in parliament. There was a single-topic Brexit party everyone could have voted for. Now as you realize only a third support them you’re trying to tell us Brexiteers actually voted Labour or Tory? 

 

There is no majority for (hard) Brexit. Spin it as you like.

Both parties manifesto stated they would respect the referendum result and that we would Leave. Both parties overwhelmingly voted for article 50 which means we Leave, deal or no deal.

 

If the EU won't offer a sensible deal that is fair to both sides, then we leave with no deal. That is the law. It is already in the legislation. We will have a Leaver PM soon, most likely Raab or Johnson. If Parliament doesn't like it they can try to force a GE with a confidence vote and if successful, they will lose their seats to Brexit MP's and possibly have Farage as PM. The legislation will remain.

 

That's democracy in action. Trying to usurp it in a country like UK is problematic (both practically and ideologically), as Remainers are slowly finding out.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

8 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

What nonsense. The leadership of Labour may have supported Brexit but a big majority of their voters did not. And a significant minority of Conservative voters didn't either. To claim these voters for Brexit is grounded only in wishful thinking.

Get your facts right. More than 60% Labour constituents voted leave. Either you are genuinely ignorant or blatantly spreading fake news.

 

https://brexitcentral.com/labours-flip-flopping-game-playing-brexit-failed-voters-country/

 

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

8 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Read posts before replying is always best

...says the person who complains about the Guardian’s “false reporting” whole the actual post wasn’t about the Guardian but about the election results ???? 

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The result confirms what we already knew: The majority, even if only a slight majority, wants to remain. There is no majority for a hard Brexit. It’ll have to go back to the people. Corbyn is already starting to realize that. 

Surely, with that fantastic turnout, we can conclude that the majority don't give a f*&k either way. 

[simple1]

44 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, but I dispute the statement that Neo-Nazis participated in the elections .

Yes, there were some Right-Wing groups that participated , but they were not Neo-Nazis

One of the so called Neo-Nazis (Orban) is actually a close ally of Israel .

Right wing yes , Neo Nazi , no

Somewhat nit picking aren't you?. Orban does support anti Semitic conspiracy theories and other memes which contribute to the platform of neo-Nazi ideology.

 

The reality is that the four states composing the Visegrad bloc—Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic—form a common entity imbued with hostility to the values of the Enlightenment, to human rights, to the concept of a nation as a community of citizens, to the principle of equality, and, generally speaking, to foreigners.

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/02/24/why-benjamin-netanyahu-loves-the-european-far-right-orban-kaczynski-pis-fidesz-visegrad-likud-antisemitism-hungary-poland-illiberalism/

[welovesundaysatspace]

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

If the EU won't offer a sensible deal that is fair to both sides, then we leave with no deal.

Do you really believe that? I don’t think you’ll be able to find a PM who’ll be willing to take responsibility for a no-deal Brexit. Even if some hardcore Brexiteer would be willing to go for a hard Brexit, he would want to have the buy-in from a majority so that it’s not him being pointed at when the ship sinks. So you’ll be back at a vote, whether that’s parliament, a referendum or a GE. 

 

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

That is the law. It is already in the legislation.

The law also allows for extensions of A50. And laws can be changed. 

 

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

We will have a Leaver PM soon, most likely Raab or Johnson.

What an upgrade ???? 

 

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

If Parliament doesn't like it they can try to force a GE with a confidence vote and if successful, they will lose their seats to Brexit MP's and possibly have Farage as PM.

An even better upgrade ???? 

 

I really thought having been a laughing stock for the past two years would have been enough for the British, but seeing people actually favor Johnson, Raab or even Farage makes me wonder how low you actually wanna go. 

 

[ivor bigun]

I find many of the Brexit posts, while replete with emotion confusing.
 
The constant repeats of statement proven many times to be falsehoods and the lack of understanding of the relationship of the UK with the EU, or indeed of UK Parliamentary democracy and how it operates.
 
So yes, I find many  Brexiteer posts utterly confusing, often laughably so.

Sorry but you confuse me, its not emotion Brexit is the will of the majority,

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[potless]

5 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I really thought having been a laughing stock for the past two years would have been enough for the British, but seeing people actually favor Johnson, Raab or even Farage makes me wonder how low you actually wanna go.

Hillary Clinton still available?????

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Somewhat nit picking aren't you?. Orban does support anti Semitic conspiracy theories and other memes which contribute to the platform of neo-Nazi ideology.

 

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/02/24/why-benjamin-netanyahu-loves-the-european-far-right-orban-kaczynski-pis-fidesz-visegrad-likud-antisemitism-hungary-poland-illiberalism/

No, Orban is an ally of Israel .

He may be Right-wing , but he isnt a neo-nazi .

BTW , what are the anti-semetic conspiracy theories that Orban supports 

[simple1]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No, Orban is an ally of Israel .

He may be Right-wing , but he isnt a neo-nazi .

BTW , what are the anti-semetic conspiracy theories that Orban supports 

As an example Soros...

 

https://www.dw.com/en/hungary-europes-champion-of-conspiracy-theories/a-46689822

 

BTW Farage is a supporter of Orban and has also utilised anti Semitic memes. Why so many are not aware of the danger Farage represents is unbelievable.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

'We'? Where exactly do you fit in?

Serious question for the benefit of any that haven't yet twigged.

As I ave explained to you more than once, and has been supported by this forum’s management.

 

The answer to that question is absolutely non of your business.

[sanemax]

23 minutes ago, simple1 said:

As an example Soros...

 

https://www.dw.com/en/hungary-europes-champion-of-conspiracy-theories/a-46689822

 

BTW Farage is a supporter of Orban and has also utilised anti Semitic memes. Why so many are not aware of the danger Farage represents is unbelievable.

You link shows that some Hungarians believe in conspiracy theories (as do many other people from other Countries)

  Your link doesnt show that Orban is a neo nazi

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You wouldn't understand you have to be British.

 

You keep thinking what parliament is and what the British people think are the same. There will be a change coming in parliament. not just a new leader but MP's actually listening to their constituents. You need to get the hankies ready as the UK will be leaving the EU deal or no deal. Start accepting it. These elections are the start. the next general election will be similar if the first referendum result isn't enacted upon. Spin it how you like. A second referendum isn't happening.

 

Labour and JC are still as dumb as they were 3 years ago. More than 60% of voters from labour voted leave and they still can't follow the majority. Both main parties have only themselves to blame. as for Change UK the remain party. How well did they do. Hopefully Soubry and the others will do the right thing and have by-elections and do the right thing. Not heard much from her gob since these results.

If anything establishes the mathematical ineptitude of certain people, it's that they liked your post.  More than 60% of Labour voters voted for leave? Really? Let me see the referendum was 52-48 in favor of leave. Where did all those remain voters come from? The Lib-Dems? The SNP? Or were they bused in from France? 

[simple1]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You link shows that some Hungarians believe in conspiracy theories (as do many other people from other Countries)

  Your link doesnt show that Orban is a neo nazi

Didn't claim he is actually a neo-Nazi, but he supports a number of policies / ideology that leans to Nazi ideology. Right now it's fair enough to say he is an extremely corrupt authoritarian, suppresses free speech, minorities (e.g. Roma / Muslims) etc etc. Not familiar with the foregoing with would be rather odd? However, Google is your friend.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Get your facts right. More than 60% Labour constituents voted leave. Either you are genuinely ignorant or blatantly spreading fake news.

 

https://brexitcentral.com/labours-flip-flopping-game-playing-brexit-failed-voters-country/

 

 

 

We none of us should be surprised that you choose to link from a site specifically dedicated to pro-Brexit views, nor should we be surprised that the link provides you with a crock of Brexit argument.

 

For any area to have voted Brexit, the votes of all in that area are counted.

 

The news that the majority of votes in an area which normally returns a Labour MP were in favour of Brexit provides no insight into how Labour Voters in that area voted.

 

To determine the views of Labour supporters ask Labour supporters their views:

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-corbyn-uk-labour-poll-crash-if-it-supports-brexit-deal-poll/

[sanemax]

Just now, simple1 said:

Didn't claim he is actually a neo-Nazi, but he supports a number of policies / ideology that leans to Nazi ideology. Right now it's fair enough to say he is an extremely corrupt authoritarian, suppresses free speech, minorities (e.g. Roma / Muslims) etc etc. Not familiar with the foregoing with would be rather odd? However, Google is your friend.

Welovesundaysatspace made the claim about Neo-Nazis taking part in the E.U. elections and I disputed that allegation . And he named Ornban as being one of those neo nazis

    He maybe all the things that you stated , I really dont know .

But as Hungary is considered to be Israels closest allie in Europe and baring in mind that Nazis didnt like Jews , he cannot considered to be a neo nazi.

[rott]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I find many of the Brexit posts, while replete with emotion confusing.

 

The constant repeats of statement proven many times to be falsehoods and the lack of understanding of the relationship of the UK with the EU, or indeed of UK Parliamentary democracy and how it operates.

 

So yes, I find many  Brexiteer posts utterly confusing, often laughably so.

 My response to remainer posts is similar their smugness alienates me instinctively, as does their assumption that anyone pro-Brexit is automatically a neo-nazi, knuckle dragging thicko who sleeps in his vest.

 

Now a nice question, was their any orchestrated opposition to the holding of a referendum in the first place.? As has been stated we are a parliamentary democracy.

[evadgib]

Back on topic;

This made me laugh a couple of days ago:

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by evadgib

[blazes]

I challenge anyone to stay awake while making sense of this "explanation" of how the EU vote is stacked up.  However, it may well illustrate why so many on this thread don't know <deleted> [wot de fcku] they are talking about!!

 

The voting system 

For the European elections the UK is broken into 12 electoral regions, with each MEP serving as a representative to all of their region’s residents. Unlike the First Past the Post system used in General Elections, the D’Hondt System will be used, which works this way:

First, all the parties put forward a list of candidates to stand in each region, ranked in their preferred order. The candidate at the top of their list will be the first to take a seat if the party gets enough votes. In the polling booth, voters only select their preferred party, rather than individual candidates.

First round: The party which gains the most votes in a region wins a seat for the candidate at the top of their list.

Second round: The wining party’s vote is then divided by the number of seats they then have + 1. So if a party wins the first seat, their vote will be divided by two (one seat + 1). After the last round winner’s votes have been divided, the total votes are then reordered, and the party now at the top of the list will gain a seat.

Third round: Once again the party which has just won a seat has its total votes divided by one + the number of seats it has so far, and the results are again reordered – this process repeats itself until all the seats have been filled.

 

What will happen to MEPs if/when we leave the EU?

When (or if) the UK leaves the European Union, the European Parliament will reduce the number of its seats from the current 751 to 705. This means that 46 of the UK’s 73 seats will be removed, and 27 will be redistributed to ‘under-represented’ countries.

 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/05/the-complete-guide-to-the-european-elections/

Edited May 27, 2019 by blazes

[malagateddy]

 My response to remainer posts is similar their smugness alienates me instinctively, as does their assumption that anyone pro-Brexit is automatically a neo-nazi, knuckle dragging thicko who sleeps in his vest.
 
Now a nice question, was their any orchestrated opposition to the holding of a referendum in the first place.? As has been stated we are a parliamentary democracy.

Rott..I think the problem is that certain non British citizens on the Forum do not have a proper grasp of UK politics.
One of them not so long ago asked me to explain what Council Tax is.
I will leave you to guess who.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Brexit and UKIP (Hard Brexit) over 35%

 

LibDem and Green (Remain) under 30%

 

Labour and conservative (split) 23%

 

 

The post you copies states Remain Parties at 40.4% and Hard Brexit parties at 34.9%. Did you distort and incorrectly post the figures by mistake? Or just your own unique interpretation?

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Do you really believe that? I don’t think you’ll be able to find a PM who’ll be willing to take responsibility for a no-deal Brexit. Even if some hardcore Brexiteer would be willing to go for a hard Brexit, he would want to have the buy-in from a majority so that it’s not him being pointed at when the ship sinks. So you’ll be back at a vote, whether that’s parliament, a referendum or a GE. 

 

The law also allows for extensions of A50. And laws can be changed. 

 

What an upgrade ???? 

 

An even better upgrade ???? 

 

I really thought having been a laughing stock for the past two years would have been enough for the British, but seeing people actually favor Johnson, Raab or even Farage makes me wonder how low you actually wanna go. 

 

I didn't state my preference, I stated what will happen.

 

As a Democrat first and foremost, I simply want someone who implements the promises made in their party's manifesto, and respects the electorate and democracy enough to implement the result of the referendum. I don't see that as extremist or unreasonable, no matter how much the anti-democrats try to twist things. 

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The post you copies states Remain Parties at 40.4% and Hard Brexit parties at 34.9%. Did you distort and incorrectly post the figures by mistake? Or just your own unique interpretation?

Hang on, so those who voted for SNP, Green etc. are automatically considered remainers - not just hard-core supporters of that party in the same way as those who voted tory or labour?