TM28/TM30 Clarification

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

Which province is the TM-28 supposed to filed with?  Say you live in province F and stay in province Y in a hotel for 48 hours, do you file in F or Y?

Neither as a temporary stay in a hotel in a different Province does not change your registered permanent  address with your local office.

The hotel though should have filed a TM30 on your arrival.

You should therefore consider refiling a TM30 when you return to your registered residence again.

In this situation I file a new TM30.

 

If you stay for a few days at a friends private residence, as opposed to a hotel, if your friend doesn't file a TM30 then Immigration are non the wiser you even made a visit elsewhere.

In this situation I do not refile a new TM30.

[calbts2]

Don't know if anyone has used yet but there are now new android apps for TM.30 reporting, 90 day reporting, and TM.6 cards. All have English support:

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Immigration+Bureau

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

At the moment that may well be true. However, it would IMHO be foolish to rule out entirely the possibility of individual offices suddenly (and without any advance warning) starting to enforce the requirements of section 37 in relation to the TM28 form with the same enthusiastic zeal and gusto as many of them are now applying in the case of section 38 and the TM30 form.

 

And the TM28 form does include at the bottom a receipt notification slip - the latest completed version of which, in common with those relating to the TM30 and TM47 forms, would presumably need to be affixed to one's passport.

I agree.

On more than one occasion I've witnessed IO's refuse extension applications, because the applicant has presented documentation with an address different to the one they have registered on their system.

Even though the new landlord filed a TM30, the applicant failed to notify their change to a new dwelling place.

They were given a TM28 to complete, fined and until both had been complied with the extension would not be granted. The irony though, as Peterw42 points out, is that having complied, they discard the TM28 (you don't need that) and just staple a receipt of the TM30 in the passport (that's all you need).

[bigginhill]

25 minutes ago, calbts2 said:

Don't know if anyone has used yet but there are now new android apps for TM.30 reporting, 90 day reporting, and TM.6 cards. All have English support:

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Immigration+Bureau

Thanks, I see the 90 day and the Tm6, but I can,t see TM 30. 

[tgeezer]

The Immigration Act was written by ministers and they knew that tourism was important but they also knew the nature and culture of their people. The TM28 requirement to report to a local police station has always been discretionary on the part of the Chief of Police. Why would they allow a policeman in the provinces access to a wealthy tourist asking for something? How could they expect a tourist to speak favourably of the country if they were inconvenienced and scammed everywhere they went. They also had to consider the safety of visitors so provision was made for keeping tabs on tourists.  Not only tourists, there are fifteen groups of visitors to the country, experts, sportsmen, journalists, missionaries ships and aircraft crews etc. all subject to the Immigration Act. The TM 30 is for householders but how many of them know about it? Hotel Managers are fair game but what about hospital administrators private house owners, is it reasonable to stir up them? The owner of the house where I have stayed for thirteen years knew nothing about a TM30 and was not prepared to make one out until I explained that I needed it for my address confirmation to get a driving licence, incidentally it was not necessary. Where practicable the Law is applied but the bottom line is that not everyone can be or is treated in the same way. If you are unlucky enough to be singled out then do as you are told and if not hope that the disease doesn’t spread. 

[MikeN]

1 hour ago, bigginhill said:

Thanks, I see the 90 day and the Tm6, but I can,t see TM 30. 

Its the "section 38" app.

[fertilizer]

1 hour ago, calbts2 said:

Don't know if anyone has used yet but there are now new android apps for TM.30 reporting, 90 day reporting, and TM.6 cards. All have English support:

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Immigration+Bureau

Downloaded all three android apps. Registered myself on the one called ”Immigration eServices for Foreigner” which went ok. Got message email will soon be sent where I have to activate my account. So far no email so guess the app not yet in full “operation”.

[fusion58]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

I agree.

On more than one occasion I've witnessed IO's refuse extension applications, because the applicant has presented documentation with an address different to the one they have registered on their system.

Even though the new landlord filed a TM30, the applicant failed to notify their change to a new dwelling place.

They were given a TM28 to complete, fined and until both had been complied with the extension would not be granted. The irony though, as Peterw42 points out, is that having complied, they discard the TM28 (you don't need that) and just staple a receipt of the TM30 in the passport (that's all you need).

How much is that fine?

[Ratt Thai]

20 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

A TM28 is a (as stated on the form) 'FORM  FOR ALIENS TO NOTIFY THEIR CHANGE OF ADDRESS OR THEIR STAY IN THE PROVINCE FOR OVER 24 HOURS'. Clearly this is the visitor's responsibility.

all depends how we "read" the regulations, how they are enforced...

 

However, i dislike to be punishable at the interpretation of others...

 

TM6: to fill in at arrival, stating your adres you will stay in Thailand, will be stored on your file in the IM computer

TM30: to fill in by the "housemaster" where you will stay, upon or within a certain time frame, this will be logged into your file at the IM computer

TM28: to fill in by YOU, stating that you are actually are at said adress (TM6) this will also be stored in IM computer

TM47: YOU reporting to Imm that you confirm still being at same adress as your last report (TM30 and TM28 )

 

If any hotel checks you in with another TM30 logging, then imagine the data in the imm computer, meaning, YOU HAVE TO file another TM28 each time a TM30 is made...

 

If you get another TM6, reentry into Thailand, the cycle starts all over again...

 

Before, it was law but not enforced, now its still law and its getting more and more enforced...

 

The last time i went to NongKhai Imm, it was firm, i left with 4 pieces of paper stappled in my passport, TM6, TM28,TM30 and TM47 ( was my first 90 day reporting in 8 years... ) ( The IO was clear, has to follow the rules as mentioned above and then shoved me a envelope to fill for making Tamboon )

 

Next stop was Nakhon Pathom, TM28, TM30, TM47,    one 90 day report on line, next time i was 1 day to late for 90 day online and had to go in person... 

Asked him about above rulings if i travel ... answer ( shaking head) no need TM28/TM30 if stay on same adress....

 

Lets do for the sake of argue, i go check in Hotel BKK for the night because of late meeting... ( probably drunk to ) next morning when checkout or at leaving hotel, checkup by IMM police... guess what happens ....

 

Oh yeah, when arriving back at my home, working place at Nakhon Pathom, new TM30, new TM28 to make...

 

And:, if you change your TM6 then you can't do TM47 online untill presented in person at Imm

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Ratt Thai
incomplete

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

How much is that fine?

Section 76 : Any alien, alien, who fails to comply with the provisions of Section 37(2),(3),(4)or(5) shall be punished with a fine not exceeding 5,000 Baht and with and additional fine not exceeding 200 Baht for each day which passes until the law is complied with.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Tanoshi

[AAArdvark]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Neither as a temporary stay in a hotel in a different Province does not change your registered permanent  address with your local office.

The hotel though should have filed a TM30 on your arrival.

You should therefore consider refiling a TM30 when you return to your registered residence again.

In this situation I file a new TM30.

 

If you stay for a few days at a friends private residence, as opposed to a hotel, if your friend doesn't file a TM30 then Immigration are non the wiser you even made a visit elsewhere.

In this situation I do not refile a new TM30.

Except that 37.4 says about TM-28 (or at least I think it does):

"If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police 
official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival."

[KhaoYai]

7 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

You register your permanent residency with Immigration, thus enabling reports to be made at the IO within that Province, you cannot report to another IO unless you formally register a new permanent address (TM28). 

If you temporarily stay in another Province, then the hotel, guest house or private residence where you stay should file a TM30 reporting your arrival. Your registered address remains unchanged.

I am not a permanent resident, I go back and forth between the UK and here.

 

7 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Yes, that is clearly written in section 4 of the Act under definition of terms used in the Act.

The online system has recently been changed allowing private residencies and foreigners to register the TM30 online. I and many other foreigners have now registered for this service.

Yes, I am aware of that, I registered with Korat last September.

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

Well, having read what the law says, and absorbed all the explanations in the responses in this thread, do you feel you now have a better grasp of the process?

I think you know the answer to that ????. I wanted to see the actual rules and I have - thank you for that.

But, and I think this is important - it would appear that its not only the Thai's that interpret the rules differently, we do too - judging by this thread.

 

For now I will continue to register TM30 online each time I arrive in Thailand and try to avoid using my passport if when I check in to hotels on any trips that I may make. I will also start reporting TM28 and ask Korat immigration if I can do that by post until or unless I am told in writing, that I don't need to.  I was poo poo'ed a few months ago when I suggested that people might want to start doing their TM30's as it appeared the authorities were clamping down on it.  Now several people have reported being fined ????.

 

For those of you that are here on a permanent basis and have to do 90 day reporting - I think having to do any of this is quite ridiculous, what is the purpose of the 90 day report? Surely its to report where you are living so having to also file another form makes it a nonsense. However, until the Thai's realise what a nonsense it is, you need to report.

Edited May 30, 2019 by KhaoYai

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, AAArdvark said:

Except that 37.4 says about TM-28 (or at least I think it does):

"If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police 
official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival."

Read my post No. 25.

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I am not a permanent resident, I go back and forth between the UK and here.

What does that fact have to do with your place of permanent residency (domicile) in Thailand.

[Brer]

Over the years I have enjoyed many long stays in Thailand 60 or 90days. I had never heard of TM28 or TM30, most times I have stayed in my partners house and she has never heard of reporting an alien to immigration.

My question is now I will be arriving shortly on a OA 12 month visa will I have to do a TM28 or TM30 within 24 hours of arriving even though I have stated on my arrival card where I will be staying?

Will my partner also have to file a TM30 too?

[BritTim]

58 minutes ago, Brer said:

Over the years I have enjoyed many long stays in Thailand 60 or 90days. I had never heard of TM28 or TM30, most times I have stayed in my partners house and she has never heard of reporting an alien to immigration.

My question is now I will be arriving shortly on a OA 12 month visa will I have to do a TM28 or TM30 within 24 hours of arriving even though I have stated on my arrival card where I will be staying?

Will my partner also have to file a TM30 too?

A TM28 should not be necessary according to the way the rules are currently applied just about everywhere. Most immigration offices will require a TM30. In principle, this notification should be filed immediately after your arrival, though many offices allow a few days grace period. The fact that your partner (like many Thais) has never heard of the notification requirement does not absolve your partner of the responsibility for complying.

[AAArdvark]

7 hours ago, Brer said:

Over the years I have enjoyed many long stays in Thailand 60 or 90days. I had never heard of TM28 or TM30, most times I have stayed in my partners house and she has never heard of reporting an alien to immigration.

My question is now I will be arriving shortly on a OA 12 month visa will I have to do a TM28 or TM30 within 24 hours of arriving even though I have stated on my arrival card where I will be staying?

Will my partner also have to file a TM30 too?

No.  Where will you be staying at first?   If you start in a hotel, they will do the TM-30.  When you move into a permanent place, the owner will do it.

Later on you may be required if you move around.  

[Tanoshi]

21 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

If you start in a hotel, they will do the TM-30.  When you move into a permanent place, the owner will do it.

Really!

Is that your personal experience, or what the law states.

[Tanoshi]

7 hours ago, Brer said:

Over the years I have enjoyed many long stays in Thailand 60 or 90days. I had never heard of TM28 or TM30, most times I have stayed in my partners house and she has never heard of reporting an alien to immigration.

My question is now I will be arriving shortly on a OA 12 month visa will I have to do a TM28 or TM30 within 24 hours of arriving even though I have stated on my arrival card where I will be staying?

Will my partner also have to file a TM30 too?

You only need to file a TM30.

If your partner is Thai she can register online to make the reports.

[luckyluke]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Is that your personal experience

It is mine,

when in Pattaya, the Condotel manager do it, on line. 

When in Thonglor, my landlord do it by letter. 

Now pretty sure, not everybody has the same experience. 

Maybe it will become routine soon. 

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

It is mine,

when in Pattaya, the Condotel manager do it, on line. 

When in Thonglor, my landlord do it by letter. 

Now pretty sure, not everybody has the same experience. 

Maybe it will become routine soon. 

You have it organised and the Condo management and landlord are aware of their responsibilities.

 

Unfortunately many Thais are unaware of the requirement, some are 'absent' owners and landlords that live abroad and are unavailable, others don't have a PC or are computer literate, others may not also read and write.

 

The point being, it is not the sole responsibility of a Thai, owner, or landlord to file the TM30.

The responsibility for who will file should be ascertained when taking up a place of abode in a private residential house. It's usually this failure to ascertain who exactly will take the responsibility that leads to unsuspecting foreigners being fined at Immigration.

As a tenant or occupier they also have an equal responsibility to ensure a TM30 is filed, one way or another, to avoid being personally fined.

 

Foreigners who continue to plead ignorance to the law and point the blame at others, need to take their head out of the sand, or continue to complain on TV of the injustice of being fined at Immigration.

[KhaoYai]

22 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

What does that fact have to do with your place of permanent residency (domicile) in Thailand.

Without looking back as to who (could have been you), someone said the TM28 was there to change permament residence.

[Tanoshi]

9 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Without looking back as to who (could have been you), someone said the TM28 was there to change permament residence.

Yes, you stated your were not a permanent resident, you travel back and forth to the UK.

I used the word residency as in domicile, your place of residence in Thailand.