Retirement Visa

[Jeaunneau]

I wonder if anyone has used The Thai Visa Centre in Bangkok, or any similar companies for renewing type O-A retirement visa. They say they can sponsor the financial requirements and process the application in three days for a fee, with payment after successful application. I noticed there was one company advertising here. Not sure if it is a scam. As the British Embassy is no longer certifying bank statements to show income this route could be very helpful if you can’t show 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank account 

[fishtank]

You cannot renew a O-A Visa in Thailand.

They have to be applied for in your own country.

 

You can apply for a 12 month extension of your permision to stay.

800,000 Baht has to be in your bank for 2 months before application and 3 months after.

You then have to leave at least 400,000 in the bank.

 

Any company offering ways around this for a fee are dodgy at best or just illegal.

[marcusarelus]

Need to go to your own country for an O-A visa.  

[ThaiBunny]

10 minutes ago, fishtank said:

Any company offering ways around this for a fee are dodgy at best or just illegal.

As I understand it an IO above a certain rank has discretionary powers to grant an extension even if all of the conditions have not been met. Perhaps @ubonjoe can confirm this. So if an IO is offered a backhander by an agent to exercise his discretion the extension will be valid

[mshs]

1 hour ago, Jeaunneau said:

if you can’t show 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank account 

then you stay home. 

 

Signed

Nature

[naidraw66]

Can someone please confirm for me what the time limit is for the deposit of the 800,000 baht for RENEWING my extension of stay based on retirement. I know it was 3 months before and 2 months after, Ive heard its now 2 months before, 3 months after  . . .confusing!

Thanks in advance

Edited June 3, 2019 by naidraw66

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Jeaunneau said:

They say they can sponsor the financial requirements and process the application in three days for a fee, with payment after successful application.

There are many such agencies.  Immigration prefers the use of agents, as they get a cut of the action.  Just be sure to use an agency that has been around a long time - though "pay after you get it," reduces the risk.

 

1 minute ago, mshs said:

then you stay home. 

 

Signed

Nature

It would make more sense to create "home" in another nearby SE Asian country, for most reading this thread.  Why waste money for a higher cost-of-living with a lower quality-of-life return on that cost in a Western passport-country?

 

It's Thailand's authorities who are making this issue.  Most others don't want to deny their own citizens jobs by artificially-limiting the spending/volume of self-funded expats.  It makes no sense to force restaurants and condos to sit empty - as many do now.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, ThaiBunny said:

As I understand it an IO above a certain rank has discretionary powers to grant an extension even if all of the conditions have not been met. Perhaps @ubonjoe can confirm this. So if an IO is offered a backhander by an agent to exercise his discretion the extension will be valid

That is what a lot of  people say but I don't agree. The following is what the police order states.

 

"5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application."

 

I think the officer mentioned would be at the division level or perhaps higher. There certainly would not be one with high enough rank at a local office to do it.

IMO there are some unverified copies of document to  prove the money is in the bank attached to the application that a officer involved signs off on. It is as simple as that.

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, naidraw66 said:

Can someone please confirm for me what the time limit is for the deposit of the 800,000 baht for RENEWING my extension of stay based on retirement. I know it was 3 months before and 2 months after, Ive heard its now 2 months before, 3 months after  . . .confusing!

Thanks in advance

The new rules are 2 months before.

Reports indicate some offices disagree with HQ, and are still insisting on 3 mo before. 

 

The 3 months after is also part of the new rules for the 800K, with 400K having to remain year-round now.

 

Unfortunately, you cannot "office shop" to find one who doesn't make up incorrect rules - and must use the office serving the area where you are living.

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, naidraw66 said:

Can someone please confirm for me what the time limit is for the deposit of the 800,000 baht for RENEWING my extension of stay based on retirement. I know it was 3 months before and 2 months after, Ive heard its now 2 months before, 3 months after  . . .confusing!

Thanks in advance

New regulations have added the 3 months after, it was never 2. Those same changes also specified the change to 2 months before for new and renewal extensions. Sadly a few offices are not yet adhering to that change still requiring 3 before seasoning on renewals. Jomtiem and CW are following the new regs. Where will you renew?

Edited June 3, 2019 by jacko45k

[onera1961]

2 hours ago, fishtank said:

You cannot renew a O-A Visa in Thailand.
They have to be applied for in your own country.
 
You can apply for a 12 month extension of your permision to stay.
800,000 Baht has to be in your bank for 2 months before application and 3 months after.
You then have to leave at least 400,000 in the bank.
 
Any company offering ways around this for a fee are dodgy at best or just illegal.

How do you know it is illegal? Has it been challenged in a court and a judge decided it is illegal? Without a court challenge, the legality is determined by the IO. As long as there is no court challenge, it will continue and it will be determined by IOs. 

Sent from my JKM-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Edited June 3, 2019 by onera1961

[Pilotman]

2 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

As I understand it an IO above a certain rank has discretionary powers to grant an extension even if all of the conditions have not been met. Perhaps @ubonjoe can confirm this. So if an IO is offered a backhander by an agent to exercise his discretion the extension will be valid

So corruption is legal?  What odd thinking. 

[stephenterry]

11 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

So corruption is legal?  What odd thinking. 

A third party lending money to another is not illegal. Banks do it all the time, and I suppose as a business arrangement a commission is sought and granted. 

 

However, I do know where you're coming from, but bear in mind there are many old, long term ex-pats supporting a Thai family who nowadays just do not have the finances to meet the 800k requirement - or the 400k requirement for married couples, come to that - and not because they didn't prepare for retirement some 10 years ago. Nowadays, costs of living, diminishing exchange rates and frozen pensions eat into savings.

 

Borrowing money for a period and paying interest on it is a practical solution. 

[mshs]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

a higher cost-of-living with a lower quality-of-life 

That is an urban myth.

 

Poorer countries spend more, exponentially more on basic needs as a percentage of income than do rich countries.  Discretionary spending far exceeds basic needs in rich countries and that is the "quality-of-life" or standard of living that the poor aspire to achieve.

 

 

 

[luckyluke]

Someone an idea how much it will cost yearly to borrow legally 800000 for 5-6 months, 400000 for 6-7 months. 

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Someone an idea how much it will cost yearly to borrow legally 800000 for 5-6 months, 400000 for 6-7 months. 

Depends on your credit and type of loan. 

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Depends on your credit and type of loan.

Minimum/maximum? 

I suppose something like 10000/15000 a month. 

[Pilotman]

22 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

A third party lending money to another is not illegal. Banks do it all the time, and I suppose as a business arrangement a commission is sought and granted. 

 

However, I do know where you're coming from, but bear in mind there are many old, long term ex-pats supporting a Thai family who nowadays just do not have the finances to meet the 800k requirement - or the 400k requirement for married couples, come to that - and not because they didn't prepare for retirement some 10 years ago. Nowadays, costs of living, diminishing exchange rates and frozen pensions eat into savings.

 

Borrowing money for a period and paying interest on it is a practical solution. 

As I understand it, the money must come from outside Thailand and be the individual's own money. however sourced.  So borrowed money, from an off shore source and then transferred would, by the letter of that law, be okay.  While that may be a 'debatable point',  it is, as I understand it, the law, and therefore potentially, a stick to beat farangs with who use dodgy agents.

 

I have every sympathy for those long term expats who are now caught up in the new financial requirements, but as is often pointed out, when you live outside your own country, on a temporary stay basis, it is risky and can go wrong at any time.  I think some forget that the vast majority of us on Extensions of Stay, only have permission to stay in the country for a maximum of 12 months, it can be withdrawn in an instant and anything that the expat does that increases that risk, such as using an agent who provides the funds, is problematic at best. I never assume that I will be allowed, or indeed want, to stay in Thailand for the rest of my days.  Indeed, I expect that as time goes on, if the present trends continue, that I will move out at some point.  It's best to live your life with that in the back of your mind.   

Edited June 3, 2019 by Pilotman

[Peterw42]

15 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Someone an idea how much it will cost yearly to borrow legally 800000 for 5-6 months, 400000 for 6-7 months. 

Agents charge 15k up, 20k is probably the average price.  You are not actually borrowing the money (maybe for a couple of days), you are paying for some sort of way around the funds in the bank, bogus letter from the bank, officer approves without funds etc.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Peterw42

[luckyluke]

 Peterw42,

I know my English is not that good, however I thought my question was clear and easy to understand. 

 

Apparently it wasn't for you. 

 

But your answer may be helpful for other people than me. 

 

 

[KhunKenAP]

The whole purpose of all these new financial requirements was to prevent the Visa Service companies depositing the 800,000 and then withdrawing it days later.

 

Why do they not prosecute these companies, instead of enacting new requirements and making it more difficult for the over 95% of retires? Now I see posts where IO's are sending people to the agencies.

 

I know, this would dry up tea money, but if they want Good Guys in and Bad guys out, they need to also apply this rule to their own Immigration department.

 

 

 

 

[stephenterry]

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

As I understand it, the money must come from outside Thailand and be the individual's own money. however sourced.  So borrowed money, from an off shore source and then transferred would, by the letter of that law, be okay.  While that may be a 'debatable point',  it is, as I understand it, the law, and therefore potentially, a stick to beat farangs with who use dodgy agents.

 

snip -apologies 

with regard to your statement highlighted above, this is the rule definition or a lump sum deposit, not income:

 

The 800,000 must be on deposit for 2 months for retirement extension. The 800,000 must also be kept on deposit for an additional 3 months after the extension of stay is granted. After that, a minimum of 400,000 baht must remain on deposit in the account, thus if using this method, you should never let your account fall below 400,000

 

it does not say anything about the source, albeit it does for income where the money must come from overseas. if you can show the lump sum deposit in a Thai commercial bank that has been seasoned for 2 months prior to the application, that's acceptable.

 

[fishtank]

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

How do you know it is illegal? 

Sent from my JKM-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Because it is. Simple as that.

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

 Peterw42,

I know my English is not that good, however I thought my question was clear and easy to understand. 

 

Apparently it wasn't for you. 

 

But your answer may be helpful for other people than me. 

 

 

I think you will find there are no institutions lending foreign funds to retiree expats. Maybe if you have a job in Thailand you could get a unsecured loan from a bank or finance company for 800k but even then the funds have not come from outside Thailand to satisfy immigration.

As for the cost, a personal loan of 800k would probably have an interest rate of around 15%

 

https://www.moneyguru.co.th/en/personal-loan

Edited June 3, 2019 by Peterw42

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

As for the cost, a personal loan of 800k would probably have an interest rate of around 15%

Thanks for that. 

So, unless I am mistaken, about 90000+ a year or +/- 8000 a month, for 6 months 400 & 6 months 800000.

[Thaidream]

32 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

think you will find there are no institutions lending foreign funds to retiree expats. Maybe if you have a job in Thailand you could get a unsecured loan from a bank or finance company for 800k but even then the funds have not come from outside Thailand to satisfy immigration.

As for the cost, a personal loan of 800k would probably have an interest rate of around 15%

For the money in the bank method- the funds do not have to come from abroad.  One can deposit the 800K/$00K in a Thai bank. It can be from cash sources; travelers checks; taken from an ATM.  Nothing in the police order indicates sourcing of these funds from abroad.

 

As far as loans-  there are money lenders who will loan anyone any amount of funds needed as long as the private lender believes  one has the ability to repay.  The interest rates are high- at least 5% per month and the lender may want  your condo chanot or vehicle book as collateral.  For a 200,000 Baht loan- the interest will be 10,000 Baht per month- you still owe the 200K. If you hold the money for a year and pay the interest each month- total repayment will be  interest  120,000 Baht plus the original 200K.    A loan of 800K  would be 4 times the figures .

I wouldn't recommend anyone use this method-ever.  The lender does have 'staff' who collect.

[ThaiBunny]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

IMO there are some unverified copies of document to  prove the money is in the bank attached to the application that a officer involved signs off on. It is as simple as that.

Are you saying the money's in the bank but it's not "seasoned"? That accords with what I've been told - agents depositing money and straightaway "facilitating" an extension

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Are you saying the money's in the bank but it's not "seasoned"? That accords with what I've been told - agents depositing money and straightaway "facilitating" an extension

It might of been in the bank long enough to get a letter from the bank. 

You should of quoted the first part of my post.

I was saying that the officer does not waive the seasoning. He approves the application with a bank letter being the only valid document. The other part is a copies of a bank book showing that it had been in the bank longer than it really was.

[wgdanson]

4 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Someone an idea how much it will cost yearly to borrow legally 800000 for 5-6 months, 400000 for 6-7 months. 

800,00 divided by 6 = 13,333 plus whatever the interest rate is!

 

I did O Level maths at school.

Edited June 3, 2019 by wgdanson

[CharlieH]

3 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

800,00 divided by 6 = 13,333 plus whatever the interest rate is!

 

I did O Level maths at school.

actually 800k divided by 6 is 133, 333.33 ????