CW extension of stay, TM30 & reentry, 5 June

[JTXR]

I'll start with the take-home message: even if in all your years in Thailand you "never did a TM30 and don't plan to start now", don't go to get your extension at CW unless you're sure you're up to date with TM30s.

My Bangkok condo landlord tried to register online to do the TM30, waited and waited for a password that never came, and then said he would mail it in.  Nevertheless, at the extension desk (mine based on original non-Imm O-A), the TO looked at her screen, pushed a TM30 form across her desk, and said Immigration had me in Krabi (where, yes, I'd gone for a 4-day vacation a few months ago). 

So, what should have been just a few hours at CW took most of the day because my wait at B section (for the TM30) was interrupted by lunch break.  And, oh yeah, at the B desk, the TO said -- in response to my wife's specific question -- that in future TM30s needed to be done even after trips away from home in Thailand, not just trips out of the country.  I plan to do my TM30 by mail from now on.  I will definitely not go for my next extension without a TM30 receipt in hand.

 

BTW, I used one of the last US embassy affidavits (dated 27 December 2018) and the combo method (income plus money in bank totaling at least 800K).  It became clear to me and the wife that even TI at CW was not entirely sure how much of the money in the bank (i.e. the difference between income and 800K) needed to stay in the account for 3 months after the extension, and how much needed to remain in the bank all year.  Three different TOs gave us 3 different interpretations of the "new rule".  Next year I will use the income method (65K transferred monthly from outside).  Later, I might switch to the 800K in the bank method, but I will definitely avoid the combo method as a bit too uncertain.

Also BTW, I am always surprised whenever folks on ThaiVisa badmouth TI staff at CW.  They're clearly overworked, and they too need to deal with shifting and uncertain rules, but I have always found that they try to be helpful and courteous, even if it's clear they're stressed or having a bad day.
 

[mtls2005]

6 minutes ago, JTXR said:

Also BTW, I am always surprised whenever folks on ThaiVisa badmouth TI staff at CW.  They're clearly overworked, and they too need to deal with shifting and uncertain rules

 

Yes, given the choice I'd work at the DLT rather than IMM (CW or SBIA/BKK).

 

What a wretched job, but then the benefits are probably worth the suffering. Would imagine the health and sickness rates are quite high for workers given the exposure.

 

 

 

 

[chessman]

Agree completely about the CW staff.

 

Were you fined for not having an up to date TM30?

[HaoleBoy]

I went to get a "new" Retirement Visa starting with the 90 day Visa May 30th.  I was hit with the need for a TM-30 form.  Online showed my last TM-30 was Chonburi in March.  I was fined 800 thb ...

I've now contacted my condo owner and she will report me when I send her a msg (flying back in to Thailand or from a trip outside of BKK).  I've heard some landlords will not sign the TM-30 or report people.

 

I asked the information people at CW when I needed the TM-30 again and she said when I apply for my Retirement Visa, when I renew it next year, and then for every 90 checkin.  So does this mean when going to CW I must get a queue # for counter B, then get another queue # for 90-day checkin? 

 

If I do a 90-day checkin by mail what do I send in for the TM-30 assuming I haven't left my condo?

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, HaoleBoy said:

I went to get a "new" Retirement Visa starting with the 90 day Visa May 30th.  I was hit with the need for a TM-30 form.  Online showed my last TM-30 was Chonburi in March.  I was fined 800 thb ...

I've now contacted my condo owner and she will report me when I send her a msg (flying back in to Thailand or from a trip outside of BKK).  I've heard some landlords will not sign the TM-30 or report people.

 

I asked the information people at CW when I needed the TM-30 again and she said when I apply for my Retirement Visa, when I renew it next year, and then for every 90 checkin.  So does this mean when going to CW I must get a queue # for counter B, then get another queue # for 90-day checkin? 

 

If I do a 90-day checkin by mail what do I send in for the TM-30 assuming I haven't left my condo?

I have never done a 90 day report or TM30. Never needed to at CW as in past tm30 not asked for and never a report as never in los for more than 90. 

My understanding is these 2 things are unrelated. 

My plan in future is to post a tm30 after my last "trip" away from my home address prior to going to CW for extension. I will have a receipt (hopefully) from posting in the tm30.

[lopburi3]

47 minutes ago, HaoleBoy said:

So does this mean when going to CW I must get a queue # for counter B, then get another queue # for 90-day checkin? 

Believe as long as your most recent TM30 shows the same address you have on TM7 or TM47 you should be OK.  If you have stayed at a hotel you/landlord would need to have made a new report.  But do not claim to be any expert on what is what today or tomorrow.

[JTXR]

2 hours ago, chessman said:

Agree completely about the CW staff.

Were you fined for not having an up to date TM30?

Surprisingly, because I was expecting it, I was not fined.  Maybe they're cutting people some slack, or maybe they were just too busy and the fine fell through the cracks. The B section was by far the busiest in Immigration, with a crowd of people in front of the two cubicles and two Immigration policemen actively explaining to people what needed to be done with the TM30 and why.  They were also showing people the little poster on the cubicle wall with a QR code to link to Section 38 of the Immigration Law. 

I have no way of knowing for sure, of course, but I suspect the new directive to enforce the TM30 business at CW has simply swamped staff with so much new work.

[mtls2005]

37 minutes ago, JTXR said:

Surprisingly, because I was expecting it, I was not fined.

 

I haven't figured out the pattern to fine/no fine (re: TM30). Know many who have not been fined, know a few who have been fined. No discernable pattern is obvious. Must be more than the cut of one's jib?

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, JTXR said:

I have no way of knowing for sure, of course, but I suspect the new directive to enforce the TM30 business at CW has simply swamped staff with so much new work.

This seems likely. I'm hoping they drop the enforcement of this due to it's enormous impracticality in a place the size of Bangkok. Getting fined or denied extensions or other processing based on a landlord's negligence is likely to generate a much higher level of negative publicity than just some localized moaning on a forum if they keep turning the screw. 

[zydeco]

Should I take pre-emptive action and go ahead and have my landlord send in a TM 30 before extending my stay in August? Might be the safest way to handle this. I'll offer to pay the fine, if any. Beats being ambushed at CW and forced to wait for 2-3 hours before even applying for the extension.

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 6/6/2019 at 3:51 PM, lamyai3 said:

This seems likely. I'm hoping they drop the enforcement of this due to it's enormous impracticality in a place the size of Bangkok. Getting fined or denied extensions or other processing based on a landlord's negligence is likely to generate a much higher level of negative publicity than just some localized moaning on a forum if they keep turning the screw. 

Is any involvement from the landlord really required?

 

Can't the tenant complete the TM30 process just using the lease agreement?

[lamyai3]

11 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Is any involvement from the landlord really required?

 

Can't the tenant complete the TM30 process just using the lease agreement?

Not sure. To be honest, I've been ignoring this issue as it seems unworkable in Bangkok, and the juristic staff in my condo didn't really understand the question when I asked. The actual owner I've never met, don't think she lives locally.

 

Main concern at the moment if the postal 90 day report will be accepted or not, got to do one late next month, unless I'm out of the country at that time.

 

Any feedback here on postal (rather than online or in-person) 90 day reports to Chaengwattana being rejected, in the absence of a TM30 on file? Never been asked for one before. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 minute ago, lamyai3 said:

Not sure. To be honest, I've been ignoring this issue as it seems unworkable in Bangkok, and the juristic staff in my condo didn't really understand the question when I asked. The actual owner I've never met, don't think she lives locally.

 

Main concern at the moment if the postal 90 day report will be accepted or not, got to do one late next month, unless I'm out of the country at that time.

 

Any feedback here on postal (rather than online or in-person) 90 day reports to Chaengwattana being rejected, in the absence of a TM30 on file? Never been asked for one before. 

TallGuyJohn have answered the question and the answer is: Tenant can do the TM30, no involvement from landlord required.

 

 

[lamyai3]

21 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

TallGuyJohn have answered the question and the answer is: Tenant can do the TM30, no involvement from landlord required.

I expect I'd get a fine for doing one at the current time. My view is that the vast majority of people here still have no clue about what a TM30 is (and most don't follow visa forums), so immigration in Bangkok has really bitten off more than it can chew in deciding to enforce this. Aside from widespread complaints and increases in processing times, they're going to be getting complaints from within their own ranks due to their job becoming so much more of a headache. 

[onera1961]

Does using an agent also require a TM30? If not use an agent.

Sent from my JKM-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[mtls2005]

On 6/6/2019 at 3:51 PM, lamyai3 said:

This seems likely. I'm hoping they drop the enforcement of this due to it's enormous impracticality in a place the size of Bangkok

Seems unlikely. Huge cash cow. A team of four Immigration officers can visit a Bangkok-based entity with ~ 150 workers and walk out with 120,000 baht (blanket fine).

 

The daily take at CW might be 300,000.

 

More likely someone needs to buy a larger safe?

 

13 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

TallGuyJohn have answered the question and the answer is: Tenant can do the TM30, no involvement from landlord required.

 

If using the online system, this approach, while it might work well for TallGuyJohn, might not work so well for others in his building, assuming multiple apartments in one building (one chanote/one tabien baan/one owner). Obviously, individual tenants can file a TM-30 in person, or by post, either on behalf of themselves or at the behest of the landlord. The latter of which may require a PoA in person.

 

Using the online system, If I register my 12 unit building then I am the Housemaster (or possessor). No other person will be able to register that building after me; you can NOT register individual apartments (not referring to condos here). I was told this by an Immigration official who handles TM30 website issues. I can be removed as Housemaster, but that will require some heavy lifting.

 

Condos and houses are different in that a one_one ratio is maintained.

 

However, the registered Housemaster can of course file TM30's on behalf of other tenants - we're using this approach via DM (really only the TM data changes) - or the username/login can be shared (a bit more dangerous).

 

7 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Does using an agent also require a TM30? If not use an agent.

Unknown, probably yes. Some reports of agent filed 90-day reports now requiring a valid TM30.

 

On 6/6/2019 at 3:56 PM, zydeco said:

Should I take pre-emptive action and go ahead and have my landlord send in a TM 30 before extending my stay in August?

Yes, I would recommend having a valid TM 30 on file, perhaps just after a return to Thailand, before applying for an extension, if only to save time and maybe 800 baht. Mail in might be the best approach? Prepare the package, have the landord sign it, then mail it in.