Correcting half-fake news: immigration

[Brunolem]

There are quite a few recriminations against the Thai immigration system in TV Forum, some being fair, some not so. 

 

Many members are complaining about increasing costs, that is not fair, because the truth is quite the opposite. 

 

I have been living here for 20 years and, as far as I remember, the fees and requirements have not changed. 

 

The 800,000 baht were there long ago, as was the 1,900 baht fee payable for most services. 

 

Members with a sharp memory will probably be able to provide more details regarding this issue, but the point is that the administrative costs for staying in Thailand are NOT constantly rising. 

 

Then, there is the new medical insurance which makes many whine, even though it is mandatory only for non OA visa. 

 

Now I don't know about you, but during my 20 years I have never applied for a non OA visa... in fact, I just discovered its existence not so long ago. 

 

Yet, I have had all kinds of visas: tourist, non B, non O, you name it... 

 

Having said that, one may wonder why the authorities consider that only non OA visa holders are susceptible to end up in an hospital??? 

 

One may also wonder why many foreigners are so reluctant about being insured, considering the risks, especially for those who go anywhere near to a road, either walking or driving or riding. 

 

Now to the main issue, the rising number of foreigners in Thailand. 

 

A member recently posted from Savannakhet, my (former) favorite consulate to apply for a visa. 

 

What was until recently a quiet place is now looking like Europe during the Syrian refugee crisis! 

 

In the early years of the previous decade (that is not so long ago), I remember visiting Pattaya immigration, soi 8 at that time, around 10 or 11 in the morning. 

 

There were one or two other foreigners inside, filling their forms on a table, then getting a number and be told to come back in the middle of the afternoon. 

 

Anticipating crowds and long lines was never on our minds. 

 

Nowadays, Jomtien immigration seems like a... refugee camp! 

 

About 5 years ago, the number of foreigners in Pattaya, staying on a retirement visa/extension, was over 40,000!!!

 

And that was only the retirement visas... 

 

I left Pattaya long ago for Sisaket where, in the early years of this decade, the immigration office was opened only one or two days a week, for lack of activity. 

 

Now, it is five days a week, with 3 or 4 officers behind their desk, and if you go in the middle of the morning, you may well end up spending a few hours waiting for your turn. 

 

While a few members are venting their frustration and thinking about leaving for better shores, many more, thousands more, are arriving daily, like a caravan of... refugees... 

 

Now, what is Thailand supposed to do about that? 

 

How would your country of origin deal with thousands upon thousands of Thai, Cambodian or Laotian people arriving every day? 

 

Just see how "easy" it is for your Thai partner to get a visa to visit Europe, not to mention the US.

 

In short, visa issues appear to multiply not because the rules and requirements are changing all the time, but because the number of applicants is rising exponentially, creating problems where they were none not so long ago... 

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

One may also wonder why many foreigners are so reluctant about being insured, considering the risks, especially for those who go anywhere near to a road, either walking or driving or riding. 

..........

In short, visa issues appear to multiply not because the rules and requirements are changing all the time, but because the number of applicants is rising exponentially, creating problems where they were none not so long ago... 

 

Because we're not American, so haven't been ripped off by our government all our lives, and Thai government hospital charges are very reasonable. I'm OK with accident insurance, but not forced health insurance with bogus outpatient charges.

 

I would say there's way less white men here than there were 10 years back when you could buy a 1 year VISA from your home country for 120 pounds, then continue to stay here on monthly VISA hops, forever. In those days I had a big crowd of drinking buddies in CM, now they've all gone.

 

You're not correcting anything, you're just advancing your 'Thailand is a wonderful place' agenda. I have no reason why you have such an agenda as it clearly isn't honest or truthful.

Edited June 6, 2019 by BritManToo

[mtls2005]

9 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Now to the main issue, the rising number of foreigners in Thailand. 

Rising? Then rising exponentially? What's next? Rocketing upwards?

 

Figures?

 

From Mynamar, Cambodia, Laos?

 

Didn't read the epic post, maybe you covered this?

 

And shouldn't it be Semi-Fake News? Or for those half-full guys, Semi-Real News?

 

 

[WalkingOrders]

Well said. Only here for a tad over 3 years, but I agree with you. Thailand is a great place. If I didnt think so, I would leave. Just like that.

[Brunolem]

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

 

You're not correcting anything, you're just advancing your 'Thailand is a wonderful place' agenda. I have no reason why you have such an agenda as it clearly isn't honest or truthful.

You are trying to read between lines and you see things that are not there. 

 

My post is about immigration and nothing else, without any "agenda". 

 

As for "Thailand is a wonderful place", the constantly increasing number of visitors and visa applicants seems to say so... not me. 

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

As for "Thailand is a wonderful place", the constantly increasing number of visitors and visa applicants seems to say so... not me. 

More a result of China and India being encouraged to visit IMHO.

Not many white folk at immigration any more.

 

Every post you make has a left-wing anti-white agenda.

You must really hate yourself.

Edited June 6, 2019 by BritManToo

[Brunolem]

12 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Rising? Then rising exponentially? What's next? Rocketing upwards?

 

Figures?

 

 

I provided one figure: 40,000 foreigners on retirement visas in Pattaya alone. 

 

In the early 2000s, the number was closer to 40...

 

You also have your eyes to actually see, providing that you have been here long enough. 

 

Long lines at immigration offices or consulates are a relatively new thing. 

 

How did this happen if the number of applicants did not increase, a lot? 

 

 

[Gumballl]

27 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Because we're not American, so haven't been ripped off by our government all our lives, and Thai government hospital charges are very reasonable. I'm OK with accident insurance, but not forced health insurance with bogus outpatient charges.

Full stop. Just because you MAY have to buy medical insurance does not mean you have to use it.

 

The lowest level of medical care in Thailand can be found at a government run hospital. If you want to roll the dice there on a critical matter, go ahead. Otherwise use your insurance at a more reputable place.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Brunolem said:

Long lines at immigration offices or consulates are a relatively new thing. 

How did this happen if the number of applicants did not increase, a lot? 

Immigration are on a deliberate 'go-slow' to force people to use agents.

Anyway I'm putting you on ignore now, in reality nobody can be this stupid, so you must be some sort of troll.

[Odysseus123]

33 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Because we're not American, so haven't been ripped off by our government all our lives, and Thai government hospital charges are very reasonable. I'm OK with accident insurance, but not forced health insurance with bogus outpatient charges.

 

I would say there's way less white men here than there were 10 years back when you could buy a 1 year VISA from your home country for 120 pounds, then continue to stay here on monthly VISA hops, forever. In those days I had a big crowd of drinking buddies in CM, now they've all gone.

 

You're not correcting anything, you're just advancing your 'Thailand is a wonderful place' agenda. I have no reason why you have such an agenda as it clearly isn't honest or truthful.

"You're not correcting anything.."

 

Yup-bang on..

 

They all must have been to a "farang" Real Estate convention (lot's of freebies) in Bangkok recently.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Odysseus123

[mtls2005]

5 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

I provided one figure

 

Cool.

 

And that was extracted from which orifice exactly?

 

I specifically request the plural.

 

23 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Figures?

 

 

Not sayin' you're loopy, just not getting your point(s)?

 

I'll be off looking for a good popcorn meme. This thread will be locked before I'm back?

 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by mtls2005

[Brunolem]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

More a result of China and India being encouraged to visit IMHO.

Not many white folk at immigration any more.

 

Every post you make has a left-wing anti-white agenda.

You must really hate yourself.

You are not getting better at trying to read between the lines. 

 

Now why don't you go once at Jomtien immigration and once at Savannakhet consulate, and see with your eyes, rather than your imagination, the proportion between Westerners and Chinese in the lines? 

[Brunolem]

3 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Cool.

 

And that was extracted from which orifice exactly?

 

I specifically request the plural.

 

 

 

Not sayin' you're loopy, just not getting your point(s)?

 

 

It is "amazing" to discover that there are members who refuse to acknowledge that there are much more foreigners requiring Thai visas today than there were 20 years ago. 

 

Some above are even accusing the immigration officers to work slower in order to create the illusion of waiting crowds... 

 

As goes the sayings "there is none so deaf as those who will not hear" and "there is no worse blind man than the one who doesn't want to see". 

 

[mtls2005]

10 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

As goes the sayings "there is none so deaf as those who will not hear" and "there is no worse blind man than the one who doesn't want to see". 

 

I'm sure you understand how easy it is to flip those sayings back on you, right?  ("There are none so blind as those who will not see.", no need to editorialize with the "worse" addition).

 

Tossing out a figure, an insult or three and some (not-even-remotely applicable) proverbs doesn't reinforce your "opinion" much.

 

10 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

It is "amazing" to discover that there are members who refuse to acknowledge that there are much more foreigners requiring Thai visas today than there were 20 years ago. 

 

Is it? Really?

 

Shame on us for our refusal to acknowledge your "pronouncements"? We only seek to be educated by experts such as yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by mtls2005

[mosan]

@Brunolem  I'm just going to jump in and say you're right.  I've been here since 2000 also and the number of foreigners here are staggering.  I could visit immigrations any time and would be surprised to see another one or two foreigners between then and probably up to about 2010. Same when I visited Tesco or Big-C (out here in the boonies of course).  Ubon Ratchathani was still the boonies at least up until 2010.  Now, I pass foreigners on my daily travels at least every 15 minutes or so.  Anybody who has been here any length of time and says otherwise is just flat out lying (or they are blind/deaf).  I now plan my trips to immigrations--early and way before my due dates--while avoiding days around weekends and holidays.  Those who cannot see or haven't been here long have not figured this out yet--can tell by their posts--late this, crowded that, I didn't know, takes way too long to do, etc., etc., etc.

 

Don't try to defend yourself against the ill-informed.  As one famous poster on ThaiVISA says, They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with (no) experience... 

[LongTang]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

Now to the main issue, the rising number of foreigners in Thailand. 

 

A member recently posted from Savannakhet, my (former) favorite consulate to apply for a visa. 

 

What was until recently a quiet place is now looking like Europe during the Syrian refugee crisis! 

 

Don't be fooled, The numbers are not rising.

The only reason the consulates are full is because back to back 30days stamps are no longer practical and the masses that used them in the past are now forced to apply for a visa in the consulates.

Edited June 6, 2019 by LongTang

[BritTim]

5 minutes ago, LongTang said:

Don't be fooled, The numbers are not rising.

The only reason the consulates are full is because back to back 30days stamps are no longer practical and the masses that used them are now forced to obtain a visa.

The numbers have risen over the last few years, although some oldtimers have left. There is a new generation of expats. However, it is true that the crowds at consulates are, to a large extent, because of rule changes. In addition to unlimited visa exempts, when you could get double and triple entry tourist visas, that obviously meant fewer visa applications. Further, some just deliberately overstayed in the past, later paying the fines, as a hassle free way of staying extended periods (something you really cannot do any longer).

[evadgib]

Immigration could substantially reduce their workload by abolishing the 90 day physical appearance (mine doesn't do online) and granting PR to retired/married/employed residents after three trouble-free years in the Kingdom.

 

A further incentive would be to include a  'no drink-driving' clause to deter the many that indulge in the practice when they wouldn't dare do it at home.

Edited June 6, 2019 by evadgib

[Brunolem]

8 minutes ago, mosan said:

@Brunolem  I'm just going to jump in and say you're right.  I've been here since 2000 also and the number of foreigners here are staggering.  I could visit immigrations any time and would be surprised to see another one or two foreigners between then and probably up to about 2010. Same when I visited Tesco or Big-C (out here in the boonies of course).  Ubon Ratchathani was still the boonies at least up until 2010.  Now, I pass foreigners on my daily travels at least every 15 minutes or so.  Anybody who has been here any length of time and says otherwise is just flat out lying (or they are blind/deaf).  I now plan my trips to immigrations--early and way before my due dates--while avoiding days around weekends and holidays.  Those who cannot see or haven't been here long have not figured this out yet--can tell by their posts--late this, crowded that, I didn't know, takes way too long to do, etc., etc., etc.

 

Don't try to defend yourself against the ill-informed.  As one famous poster on ThaiVISA says, They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with (no) experience... 

How reassuring to read that I am not seeing things after all...

 

I am not really trying to defend myself, just to open some minds... that won't open... 

 

I find it always fascinating to see how people hiding behind avatars are ready to jump at one's throat, accusing one of being wrong (and a leftist to boot), while never bothering to provide any contradicting information/examples. 

 

Many people are convinced that making bold statements are a form of proof, and if you provide facts, they simply dismiss them as inaccurate. 

 

The 40,000 retirement visas in Pattaya was front page news in the local newspapers some years ago, which is how I learned about it. 

 

And since I was amazed by that number, I had it confirmed by an acquaintance of mine who works at Jomtien immigration. 

 

But never mind, there are those who know better, just because they say so... 

 

[INV]

OP it's not so hard to understand why there are long ques in immigration, its because of all this shit

we need to deal with, rapport this, TM 30 that, get married and you see what kind of shit you need to deal with

regards papers, home visit, etc, etc. Get papers to get a driver license and all kinds of stupid

crap. So sure immigration offices are packed with people try to follow all this stupidity

 

[Brunolem]

20 minutes ago, LongTang said:

 

Don't be fooled, The numbers are not rising.

The only reason the consulates are full is because back to back 30days stamps are no longer practical and the masses that used them in the past are now forced to apply for a visa in the consulates.

Back to back stamps have not been available for many many years. 

 

Thus, they are only part of the explanation. 

 

Whether people like it or not, there are more foreign residents these days than there were say 15 years ago, as explained, with examples, by a member from Ubon above. 

 

Being frequently in Ubon myself, I can confirm his observations. 

 

 

[Brunolem]

3 minutes ago, INV said:

OP it's not so hard to understand why there are long ques in immigration, its because of all this shit

we need to deal with, rapport this, TM 30 that, get married and you see what kind of shit you need to deal with

regards papers, home visit, etc, etc. Get papers to get a driver license and all kinds of stupid

crap. So sure immigration offices are packed with people try to follow all this stupidity

 

These requirement were there 15 years ago... they were not created last year. 

 

I had a non B visa and a work permit in the early 2000s...the paperwork and the process (5 month long) was mindboggling... but at least I didn't have to go through long lines to reach the desk of an officer. 

 

 

[BritManToo]

33 minutes ago, LongTang said:

 

Don't be fooled, The numbers are not rising.

The only reason the consulates are full is because back to back 30days stamps are no longer practical and the masses that used them in the past are now forced to apply for a visa in the consulates.

Until Vientienne started limiting numbers with it's new booking system, Suvannakhet was almost deserted, and the few VISA applicants they had were mainly non-whites.

[LongTang]

15 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Back to back stamps have not been available for many many years. 

 

Thus, they are only part of the explanation. 

 

I'm sorry, but early 2017('2 entry limit' introduction) is not something i consider many many years to say the least..

 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by LongTang

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

How would your country of origin deal with thousands upon thousands of Thai, Cambodian or Laotian people arriving every day? 

Put them in Isle of White and Northern Ireland I guess. ????

[ParadiseLost]

Many posers here, quick to jump to a misunderstanding.

 

Vientiane introduced an appointment system, now fully booked two months in advance. Ask yourself why they would do so, as the selling of visas is their only/main source of revenue? Could it perhaps be sheer volume? Penang had to do the same a few years back...

 

Social media has once again led to the detriment of the human race - everyone thinks it is easy to live in Thailand, work illegally, because they read it on farcebook and watch 'educational' youtube vids, forgetting that people are paid advertisement fees based on number of suckers that watch their bullshit.

 

But every new generation considers themselves enlightened, ready to argue about things they know very little. As the OP states he (and I) has lived here 15 years and the cost of doing business with immigration has not risen.

 

Subscribing to the conspiracy theory that immigration is pushing people to agents is really laughable, but I guess they give up with some dimwits who cannot manage a really simple process, compared to the impenetrable fortresses of EU, UK and of course USA. Even a little upstart country like Australia has much more heinous visa restrictions and costs.

Edited June 6, 2019 by ParadiseLost

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, ParadiseLost said:

Vientiane introduced an appointment system, now fully booked two months in advance.

False info from months ago when they had problems. It is 2 to 3 weeks now for tourist visas. Less for non immigrant visas.

[ParadiseLost]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

False info from months ago when they had problems. It is 2 to 3 weeks now for tourist visas. Less for non immigrant visas.

Thanks, I was incorrect but nevertheless my point is still valid - why would they limit the number of applicants, other than a huge increase in numbers?

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, ParadiseLost said:

Thanks, I was incorrect but nevertheless my point is still valid - why would they limit the number of applicants, other than a huge increase in numbers?

The number they had applying have been high for years already. I recall reports of them processing 4 or 5 hundred people a day.

Apparently they were trying to put some order into effect to control the dailey number of people that showed up. 

[jackdd]

59 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Immigration could substantially reduce their workload by abolishing the 90 day physical appearance (mine doesn't do online) and granting PR to retired/married/employed residents after three trouble-free years in the Kingdom.

Immigration does not get money from people with PR, so this won't happen.