Why do they keep doing it ??

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, thequietman said:

I take your point but we are cerainly not equal. The thai teachers have job security, I don't. They get a pension, I don't. They get yearly salary increases, I don't. We are certainly not the same. Apply the same working conditions to me and maybe I will take this nonsense.

You have better working conditions.  You are talking about benefits.  Two different things.  I believe on a college level you may qualify for more benefits depending on your employer.  Since you are teaching on a college level I'll assume you have at least a masters in your area of expertise and normally a Phd.  Perhaps someone else can comment on a Western college professor and what benefits they can expect with a MA or Phd.   

[thequietman]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You have better working conditions.  You are talking about benefits.  Two different things.  I believe on a college level you may qualify for more benefits depending on your employer.  Since you are teaching on a college level I'll assume you have at least a masters in your area of expertise and normally a Phd.  Perhaps someone else can comment on a Western college professor and what benefits they can expect with a MA or Phd.   

Signed new contract 1 month ago. They removed salary increases for foreigners only. ????

[thequietman]

7 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You have better working conditions.  You are talking about benefits.  Two different things.  I believe on a college level you may qualify for more benefits depending on your employer.  Since you are teaching on a college level I'll assume you have at least a masters in your area of expertise and normally a Phd.  Perhaps someone else can comment on a Western college professor and what benefits they can expect with a MA or Phd.   

Salary seems to be the only 'difference.' The Thai teachers will get yearly increases, I won't.I am not sure about the better working conditions that you refer to. 

 

Can you expand on my perceived better working conditions please.

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, thequietman said:

Signed new contract 1 month ago. They removed salary increases for foreigners only. ????

A doctoral degree (preferred) or master’s degree in any of the following field of studies: Software Engineering, Computer Science, Information Technology or related fields.  Candidates should have at least 2-3 years of experience teaching at the undergraduate level and have published research in peer reviewed journals or conference proceedings in the past five years. Candidates should be able to teach IT major and elective courses.

 

Teach 9-12 hours per week.

Develop teaching materials for assigned classes.

Revise course materials when needed.

Assist in the department’s curriculum development and management.

Conduct research and publish in peer-reviewed journals or conferences.

Advise students on their academic plan and performance.

Participate in department and university meetings, activities, and events.

Develop strategic partnerships, locally and internationally.

Execute various other academic or administrative duties.

 

Full-time employment qualifies the instructor for various benefits, including vacation time, bonuses, medical, and work permit. Starting salary will be commensurate with education level and experience.

 

Have you looked around?  

 

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, thequietman said:

Salary seems to be the only 'difference.' The Thai teachers will get yearly increases, I won't.I am not sure about the better working conditions that you refer to. 

 

Can you expand on my perceived better working conditions please.

I have many friends who teach but only a couple at an accredited college level so I'm not really able to comment on anything at that level.  From my experience they worked the heck out of the teachers from the Philippines and Africa and the Brits and Americans got special treatment.  

[thequietman]

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

A doctoral degree (preferred) or master’s degree in any of the following field of studies: Software Engineering, Computer Science, Information Technology or related fields.  Candidates should have at least 2-3 years of experience teaching at the undergraduate level and have published research in peer reviewed journals or conference proceedings in the past five years. Candidates should be able to teach IT major and elective courses.

 

Teach 9-12 hours per week.

Develop teaching materials for assigned classes.

Revise course materials when needed.

Assist in the department’s curriculum development and management.

Conduct research and publish in peer-reviewed journals or conferences.

Advise students on their academic plan and performance.

Participate in department and university meetings, activities, and events.

Develop strategic partnerships, locally and internationally.

Execute various other academic or administrative duties.

 

Full-time employment qualifies the instructor for various benefits, including vacation time, bonuses, medical, and work permit. Starting salary will be commensurate with education level and experience.

 

Have you looked around?  

 

20-23 hours a week. 

 

Must be available 8:30 - 17:30

 

Department meetings etc always on the weekends when it is my day off!

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, thequietman said:

20-23 hours a week. 

 

Must be available 8:30 - 17:30

 

Department meetings etc always on the weekends when it is my day off!

Is this a college you are teaching at or one of those trade school things?

[Orton Rd]

30 days notice does not seem that reasonable, private students can usually re arrange classes in a far shorter time range than that.

[thequietman]

22 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Is this a college you are teaching at or one of those trade school things?

An actual government institution with all the nonsense that goes with it. 

 

I'm sorry for my poor attitude, but essentially what they are saying is, 'we own you. Don't make plans because we may call a meeting or a seminar and we expect you to be there. The fact that you make plans in your life is neither here nor there. When we call, you come a running. If you don't, then you are a BAD teacher."

 

It really does feel like that. Surely, they know that I have a life outside office hours. Apparently, NOT!

[simon43]

Tell them that next Sunday you are too busy to clean your house and ask them to come and clean it for you for free on that Sunday...

[thequietman]

21 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

30 days notice does not seem that reasonable, private students can usually re arrange classes in a far shorter time range than that.

The classes are paid for upfront. If I cancel them, I have to pay the student back and the online school keeps the fee anyway. If I were to cancel the lessons that I have for the seminar, it would cost me 3,250 baht!

 

That's why I ask for the notice period. The guy coming to do the seminar was booked months ago, but they felt they didn't need to tell me until 11 days before. I feel that its a power trip thing. Knowledge is power and all that.

 

It seems unreasonable not to accept that I may have made plans myself.

[thequietman]

1 minute ago, simon43 said:

Tell them that next Sunday you are too busy to clean your house and ask them to come and clean it for you for free on that Sunday...

I know this is an attempt at humour, but is really doesn't help. ????

[marcusarelus]

29 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

30 days notice does not seem that reasonable, private students can usually re arrange classes in a far shorter time range than that.

Seems to me when I was a young guy, teaching and stuff that I was happy if I got a call on the morning of the event telling me what to wear and what time to show up.  

[thequietman]

8 hours ago, Scott said:

Foreign teachers fare a little better, but they still have no problem with deciding they need them to work on a Saturday or a public holiday. 

The Uni is closed now and has been for about a month.

 

This means that we are free to attend anything, from Mon to Friday, no problem. So what do they do .......

 

Schedule the seminar on the weekend. I swear they do it just to remind everyone of their place in the system.

[poohy]

Yup strange people 

i did a year at an agricultural uni in the south,  actually a nice number (8 hours week and a house , it was a remote place)

 

Anyway i had to address school on one occasion , went through details with principal and vp

Turned up on day ...very quiet actually closed for a holiday!

[DavisH]

16 hours ago, stubuzz said:

Just say will go and don't turn up. Give a BS excuse; Thai style. Did you work for free in your home country?

 

Teachers in western countries work much longer hours than that stated in any contract. Most professions have hours that you need to be in the office. This does not mean that when you clock off, work stops. I can get you Thai government workers work much longer hours than stated in their contract - my wife puts in at least 10-12 hours a day or more - that includes evening and weekend work. Meetings are often held on public holidays as that is the only "free time" they get during the week. Teaching and many other professions are not like factory work. I do what I need to do my job, even if it means marking students work or writing exams outside of office hours. The OP may find more flexibility in working for a language school. Thais schools are not known for forward planning, especially them telling you what will happen a month in advance. 

[watcharacters]

3 hours ago, thequietman said:

The classes are paid for upfront. If I cancel them, I have to pay the student back and the online school keeps the fee anyway. If I were to cancel the lessons that I have for the seminar, it would cost me 3,250 baht!

 

That's why I ask for the notice period. The guy coming to do the seminar was booked months ago, but they felt they didn't need to tell me until 11 days before. I feel that its a power trip thing. Knowledge is power and all that.

 

It seems unreasonable not to accept that I may have made plans myself.

 

When the Mrs. was attending Uni. it was nearly impossible for us to schedule holidays in advance because of the unknown school schedule.

 

I genuinely feel your grief and agree there's hardly justification for such failure to do advance planning and notification.

 

 

 

[moontang]

They know one day, and only one day.. and that is tomallow. I recall during a labor dispute in Fairfax VA, the teachers decided to work to the rule, which meant leaving at 15:30, when their contracted working hours ended.  After a month, their plan had completely backfired as there was no difference in the results. Forty years later, they are still complaining, and starting at over 50k per year.  And of course, the Holy Grail is to get a job in administration and not teach, at all.  Practice doesn't make perfect, correct practice makes perfect.  Long hours is often a sign of a broken marriage or simply no life.  

 

My high school math teacher also coached varsity football, and built custom houses.  He would speed off to a building site in his Porsche at 14:10, usually before most students left, and race back at 15:30 for football practice.  Fifteen years after I graduated, I saw a sign near a friend's house:  Mickey Simpson construction, new homes from 800k.  He wasn't a great teacher, but certainly better than the slobs, and he taught us a ton of stuff about real estate, that is rarely taught, and retired as a multi-millionaire. So, I have always taken the claims of 70 hour work weeks with a grain of salt, especially, when they groan as they get out of their broken chair.

 

Saturday:  I would seek a half day pay for just showing up, and a full day's pay at the three hour mark.  Drove the swim team to the State meet about twenty miles... got paid time and a half from the time I got to the bus lot, till I finished cleaning the bus 13 hours later.. nice 300 Dollar day, mostly spent watching football.

 

You have to hold some of the cards when doing business here.  It can be a pleasure doing business with them, but you can't let your guard down, and you need to plan for the adverse circumstances.  Making them pay first would not be out of the question. 

[bkkgriz]

If it makes you feel any better I run into this stuff all the time at my high school in Japan. I guess the difference is I tell them I have classes outside work booked and they work with me. Most Thai schools are garbage and only care about face and the bottom line. If you really care about teaching, I recommend a different country. 

[connda]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:12 PM, madmen said:

So you signed on with your 30 days confirmed by just a nod of the head and now your confused?

What did you expect? welcome to the real world !

Agreed.  You expect them to respect your wishes with the Thai equivalent of a 'gentleman's handshake?"  If it's not contractual and in writing, you have no expectations.
What you would have found had you forced the issue and demanded the agreement in writing would be you'd not have to worry about 'strike 3' as they would never have hired you in the first place.
Foreign educator are not respected here my friend.  You're simple grist to keep the money flowing through the educational mill.  If you won't work for low wages and with no respect from the administration, there are others who gladly will.  We understand that you probably are a conscientious, dedicated educator - but the Thai system simply wants a body who will accept low paid and who will not rock the boat, as well as being deferential without question.  Quality and dedication are at best secondary considerations.

Edited June 16, 2019 by connda

[manchega]

have had exactly the same issue

consistently train the faculty to provide proper notice by not attending anything unless given prior notice.

from weekly meetings

its nothing to get angry about just need to train them

yes they will get upset but will also learn to value other peoples time eventually

the only issue I had when working uni doing this was I had to find novel excuses to not attend once they did start giving me notice in advance.

[whaleboneman]

Does anyone in the Thai school system make any plans 30 days out? 

[connda]

On 6/15/2019 at 4:17 AM, Puchaiyank said:

They are the employer...you employee...they will not take the time to alert you 30 days in advance of when there is night or weekend work which they consider a normal part of the job.

 

Stress can cause mental and physical health issues...either resolve to be available when they require your participation or just quit your uni job and do freelance work which seems more to your liking...

Puchaiyank addresses the status issue here too, which is very real.  
Administrators poop flowers and fart perfume in their own minds.
I worked for a private company but did gigs teaching Thai teachers at their own schools.  At the end of course we had a pizza party.  The class and myself all sat around at a table and had a jolly good time while the school's director sat at her own private table on the other side of the room.  She would have looked better with a dunce-cap on imho, but she was showing her status to the plebs. 
That is exactly what you are dealing with.  That mentality.  And most Thais want to be in the director's seat - high and mighty!  
So, a couple of lessons here.  I personally only work for private companies.  I never dealt with the buffalo paddies you folks in public institutions deal with. 
Second, if I did it all over again, I'd have worked in countries where the pay was good and where the administrations had a least a modicum of respect for their staff.  Thailand ain't it and never will be.  If you like Thailand, then dandy.  Work elsewhere, make some decent 'jack', and on your vacations or between gigs, come to Thailand as a tourist.  That's a better plan in imho.

Edited June 16, 2019 by connda

[thequietman]

35 minutes ago, bkkgriz said:

If it makes you feel any better I run into this stuff all the time at my high school in Japan. I guess the difference is I tell them I have classes outside work booked and they work with me. Most Thai schools are garbage and only care about face and the bottom line. If you really care about teaching, I recommend a different country. 

I am trying to break into Japan right now. I teach them online and have done for 5 years. Lovely people. Please PM me if you can provide any advice or opportunities. Maybe get me into your school. ????

[moontang]

Not to mention Thai administrators bought their jobs. 

[meand]

Go to their functions or quit is the obvious situation. Forget what you said in the meeting. Being right will screw your life up better than anything else. Just forget that. Go to the required meetings or quit. 

[thequietman]

15 minutes ago, whaleboneman said:

Does anyone in the Thai school system make any plans 30 days out? 

I think they do plan yes, but they keep the plans to themselves until the very last moment.

 

It is a power play.

[connda]

On 6/15/2019 at 7:08 AM, marcusarelus said:

My wife works for Samsung Engineering it is her job to plan ahead so large multi million $ dollar projects can be built on schedule.  I believe you folks are talking about little/not professional companies as Thailand is the 10th largest producer of vehicles in the world there is a large volume of planning and shipping and production that goes into the hundreds of thousands of cars and trucks produced and shipped from here.  

 

The Thai education system is applied evenly and equally between Thais and Farang and everyone who works in it is aware of this.  It would be a different matter is the OP was being discriminated against but he is probably getting a higher wage and better working conditions than his Thai co/workers.  One would think by the time a teacher reached university level he would know this.  

Multi-national corporations are a different animal.  If they functioned via Thai work ethic and planning as opposed to proven project management strategies using professionals, they would not be successful multi-national corporations.  

[elgenon]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:35 PM, thequietman said:

I know, it was naive of me, but why won't they accept what I am telling them? Its like a roundabout, they ask me to come in on days off, evenings and weekends, I explain I have private lessons, they get angry, rinse then repeat. There doesn't seem to be any learning curve!

 

And then when I quit, they will seem confused and ask me why! 

 

 

Arrrrggggg !

They got the teacher they wanted. They figure you will do as told. Perhaps you should accept it or leave. They will not change.

[cheshiremusicman]

On 6/15/2019 at 8:19 AM, Fex Bluse said:

They also grow more rice... 

Did you know that Thailand's economic efficiency is among the lowest of countries measured?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_hour_worked

So WHY is the Baht so blxxdy strong against all currencies and getting stronger. Surely, exports from Thailand must be suffering because of this, never mind the tourist industries?

When I first came to Thailand some 13 years ago the exchange rate to the UK pound was some 60+ and now it's 39 - It doesn't make any sense to me!