29 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

Then LEAVE! Go away and don´t try to make deals with the EU now. What the hell is the problem? If I want to leave a tennis club, I give them my member card, cancel at my bank the monthly transfer to the club and that´s it. But you want to leave and make deals in the same moment. 

I'm sure that what our elected tory government has been aiming for, if not very successful at it. However, our sovereign parliament has stalled the process. The ball lies firmly in the UK's court right now, not the EU's.

 

With all due respect, to compare four countries with a populous of 65 million, as being the same as an individual handing in a membership card and cancelling committed expenditure, is nonsensible.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Ol' Stomper keeps banging that drum not realising a legal challenge was very publicly launched yesterday that will turn the result on its head.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1144557/Brexit-Party-reveals-it-will-legally-challenge-Peterborough-by-election

38 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You didn’t read page one of the membership charter did you?!

Not much to read there.

41 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You didn’t read page one of the membership charter did you?!

We signed for  ilMercato Comune , not La Cosa Nostra.

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

Playing games again Stephen, please don't insult my intelligence.

Not my intention Vogie. The 'democratic majority' did not decide to leave. That's factual. As you well know, Cameron said the Tory government would honour the vote.  

 

Where I'm coming from it's up to our sovereign parliament to democratically decide what happens next to the impasse as it is clear that the Tories are incapable of achieving anything this side of a GE.

 

If the new PM attempts to push through a no-deal, he'll be ousted by parliament and a GE will occur. His best gambit is to persuade others to join both Johnson and Hunt to vote for the WAG like they both did before.

 

That's the best the Tories can hope for, IMO. Not that it would make much difference. The Tories are toast.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I take it though the court won’t be finding the 43,000 former Leave voters who went AWOL.

Chomper, I've explained to you 3 times on other threads why your claim about 43,000 leave voters going AWOL is misleading and absolute nonsense. On each occasion you didn't respond to me. That's presumably because you knew you made a mistake.

 

But here you are making the same misleading claim again. Do the decent thing and drop it please! 

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

With all due respect, to compare four countries with a populous of 65 million, as being the same as an individual handing in a membership card and cancelling committed expenditure, is nonsensible.

 

Ok, it´s not 100% the same - but close to it ????   The Brits can leave very quick but they try to make a deal where it´s impossible to make a deal or makes no sense for the EU to make a deal. That´s the reason why it needs a so long time. They could be out since a long time. 

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Loiner said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1144557/Brexit-Party-reveals-it-will-legally-challenge-Peterborough-by-election

Fine by me. The principle of a fair voting contest is paramount, whatever the outcome. Sadly, there are many instances of corrupt and tactical practices within political parties. If the postal votes are found to be dubious, best practice would see the result aborted and a new election should take place. Ideally.  

3 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

 

Had the Hard Tory Brexiteers voted for the WAG, the UK would have been out already. Blame the ERG.

11 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Chomper, I've explained to you 3 times on other threads why your claim about 43,000 leave voters going AWOL is misleading and absolute nonsense. On each occasion you didn't respond to me. That's presumably because you knew you made a mistake.

 

But here you are making the same misleading claim again. Do the decent thing and drop it please! 

 

 

 

Explain all you wish, The Brexit Party lead by arguably the most recognizable face in British politics only needed to get 20% of those who voted Leave to vote for them in the by-election to wipe the board clean.

 

They couldn’t manage it.

 

43,000 former Leave voters went AWOL.

 

And please, this was going to be a pro-Brexit message to Parliament.

5 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Had the Hard Tory Brexiteers voted for the WAG, the UK would have been out already. Blame the ERG.

They didn’t vote for the WAG because it doesn’t protect the tax shy Billionaires, Multimillionaires and Hedge Fund managers who funded Brexit from the CCCTB.

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

They didn’t vote for the WAG because it doesn’t protect the tax shy Billionaires, Multimillionaires and Hedge Fund managers who funded Brexit from the CCCTB.

Plus it's a crappy "deal". 

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Explain all you wish, The Brexit Party lead by arguably the most recognizable face in British politics only needed to get 20% of those who voted Leave to vote for them in the by-election to wipe the board clean.

 

They couldn’t manage it.

 

43,000 former Leave voters went AWOL.

 

And please, this was going to be a pro-Brexit message to Parliament.

From 19th June:

 

"How many more times do I need to tell you this before it sinks in? I'll repeat: A by-election has very different dynamics to a binary referendum. You just cannot compare data from the two. But if you insist on doing this, then let's look at it another way. Over 34k people in Peterborough voted to remain in 2016. In the by-election the Lib Dems got just 4,159 votes, and the Greens got just 1,035 votes. So using your logic, where is this huge increase for Remain?"

 

 

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Plus it's a crappy "deal". 

I’ll grant you it’s not as good as membership and no better than the deal ‘Project Fear’ predicted.

 

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

From 19th June:

 

"How many more times do I need to tell you this before it sinks in? I'll repeat: A by-election has very different dynamics to a binary referendum. You just cannot compare data from the two. But if you insist on doing this, then let's look at it another way. Over 34k people in Peterborough voted to remain in 2016. In the by-election the Lib Dems got just 4,159 votes, and the Greens got just 1,035 votes. So using your logic, where is this huge increase for Remain?"

 

 

Yep, you are repeating your opinion, so am I.

 

Care to post a link back to that so we can check if your claim I didn’t respond holds up?

 

 

51 minutes ago, Loiner said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1144557/Brexit-Party-reveals-it-will-legally-challenge-Peterborough-by-election

Why don't they like democracy and respect the democratic will of the Peterborough people? 

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ll grant you it’s not as good as membership and no better than the deal ‘Project Fear’ predicted.

 

Look at the positives. It guarantees the UK leaving the EU. Then there would be a transitional period where bones of contention and future trading arrangements can be negotiated or renegotiated. That is a PLAN and it's a positive start, because there would be a level of stability and purpose, that would encourage investment into the UK.

 

If the populace  - as I have read on this forum and elsewhere - would be willing to give up everything just to leave, this is the best way forward. To bleat about 'it's a crap deal' is typical British behaviour -always complaining and blaming the kitchen sink. 

 

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Why don't they like democracy and respect the democratic will of the Peterborough people? 

I’m with Loiner and The Brexit Party on this, if electoral fraud is discovered cancel the result and re-run.

I’m sure Loiner and other Brexiteers agree.

 

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/party-and-election-finance-to-keep/vote-leave-fined-and-referred-to-the-police-for-breaking-electoral-law

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m with Loiner and The Brexit Party on this, if electoral fraud is discovered cancel the result and re-run.

I’m sure Loiner and other Brexiteers agree.

 

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/party-and-election-finance-to-keep/vote-leave-fined-and-referred-to-the-police-for-breaking-electoral-law

I am all for honesty in politics, but I would like to see the same approach taken to investigating the dirty antics of Vote Leave, Aaron Banks etc. However I do enjoy the irony of fraudsters complaining of fraud. 

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m with Loiner and The Brexit Party on this, if electoral fraud is discovered cancel the result and re-run.

I’m sure Loiner and other Brexiteers agree.

 

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/party-and-election-finance-to-keep/vote-leave-fined-and-referred-to-the-police-for-breaking-electoral-law

To add to this, I did read this blog post earlier today which made the Peterborough situation seem relatively normal:

 

The Peterborough by-election statistics

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1144557/Brexit-Party-reveals-it-will-legally-challenge-Peterborough-by-election

More of same for any that missed it. The Guffaw brigade should also note that Richard Tice successfully sued a member of the SNP over unfounded allegations during the same campaign...

 

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Explain all you wish, The Brexit Party lead by arguably the most recognizable face in British politics only needed to get 20% of those who voted Leave to vote for them in the by-election to wipe the board clean.

 

They couldn’t manage it.

 

43,000 former Leave voters went AWOL.

 

And please, this was going to be a pro-Brexit message to Parliament.

Peterborough saw over 86,000 votes cast in the referendum: 53,216 for leave and 34,176 for remain. Only two choices. Total votes in the Peterborough by-election were 33,920. Fifteen choices with four of those taking >10% of the total vote. 

 

Labour won Peterborough in the 2017 GE but by only 600 votes from the Tories. 

Labour won Peterborough in the 2019 BE but by only 688 votes from the Brexit Party.

 

That total votes in the Peterborough by-election were 50,000 less than in the referendum might suggest that the EU question is far more important to people in this area. If there were to be another referendum then all those 50,000 would be back! Maybe more now. 

 

And it looks quite likely that Labour have cheated anyway. This bullshine needs to stop. 

 

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Peterborough saw over 86,000 votes cast in the referendum: 53,216 for leave and 34,176 for remain. Only two choices. Total votes in the Peterborough by-election were 33,920. Fifteen choices with four of those taking >10% of the total vote. 

 

Labour won Peterborough in the 2017 GE but by only 600 votes from the Tories. 

Labour won Peterborough in the 2019 BE but by only 688 votes from the Brexit Party.

 

That total votes in the Peterborough by-election were 50,000 less than in the referendum might suggest that the EU question is far more important to people in this area. If there were to be another referendum then all those 50,000 would be back! Maybe more now. 

 

And it looks quite likely that Labour have cheated anyway. This bullshine needs to stop. 

 

Perhaps the missing 43,000 former Leave voters were confused by the fiendishly cryptic name of ‘The Brexit Party’.

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

13 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

From 19th June:

 

"How many more times do I need to tell you this before it sinks in? I'll repeat: A by-election has very different dynamics to a binary referendum. You just cannot compare data from the two. But if you insist on doing this, then let's look at it another way. Over 34k people in Peterborough voted to remain in 2016. In the by-election the Lib Dems got just 4,159 votes, and the Greens got just 1,035 votes. So using your logic, where is this huge increase for Remain?"

 

 

Yep, you are repeating your opinion, so am I.

 

Care to post a link back to that so we can check if your claim I didn’t respond holds up?

I am explaining to you that the Peterborough by-election numbers do not indicate leavers going AWOL. The by-election had a lower turn out, less interest, and people voting along party lines. The referendum was a binary vote with a huge turn out. 

 

You can't criticise Vote Leave for the message on the bus, and then make misleading statements yourself. That's called hypocrisy 

23 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ll grant you it’s not as good as membership and no better than the deal ‘Project Fear’ predicted.

 

They are both crappy deals then.

10 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I am explaining to you that the Peterborough by-election numbers do not indicate leavers going AWOL. The by-election had a lower turn out, less interest, and people voting along party lines. The referendum was a binary vote with a huge turn out. 

 

You can't criticise Vote Leave for the message on the bus, and then make misleading statements yourself. That's called hypocrisy 

One cannot claim solid or growing support for Brexit when 43,000 people who voted Leave fail to show up to vote for the Brexit Party in a widely publicized by-election.

 

43,000 is the missing number.

 

Find that link yet?

 

Edited June 25, 20197 yr by Chomper Higgot

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Perhaps the missing 43,000 former Leave voters were confused by the fiendishly cryptic name of ‘The Brexit Party’.

Perhaps all the referendum leave voters decided to stick with their habitual parties or just not vote in a by election that made little difference to Brexit? Perhaps they only like voting in referendums that promise the chance to leave the EU? Perhaps they have become disenchanted with all of the main parties? Perhaps they knew Labour would cheat? Perhaps they just wanted to give you something to talk about? Who knows?

 

But I do think the BP did really well for a brand new party and if the shenanigans had been disallowed I bet they would have won it, too. 

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Perhaps the missing 43,000 former Leave voters were confused by the fiendishly cryptic name of ‘The Brexit Party’.

The only confusion was the decision to introduce Peterborough into the thread as a stick to beat the opposition with and finding that it backfired ????

Edited June 25, 20197 yr by evadgib

7 hours ago, stephenterry said:

It seems like every few days there's a similar post by JF on the same tiring subject and the same usual responses. So what if Johnson says this or that - it might wash with Tory voters, but at the end of the day if he stuck to a no-deal, he would be ousted from a PM role by parliament and a GE called.

 

Without a doubt, a no-deal brexit would cause irreplacable damage to the UK economy and the pound would materially devalue overnight. No UK parliament would sanction that. it just ain't going to happen.

 

If Johnson aims to leave, he'll have to get the WAG past parliament, and if it's not the ideal deal, that's Tough Teety. Accept it, and hope the government gets on with trying to repair the backlash situation that brexit would cause. As for moving forward, that's another cloud cuckoo-land ideological scenario with no realistic ending or reality built in.    

 

 

 

 

 

interesting

Perhaps you could explain to all us thick ones EXACTLY  what will happen on a no deal, how much damage and what cost, but don't forget to allow for the extra money we won't have to pay for the EU will you I'm sure some MPs would appreciate your knowledge too 

7 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Quite. Adds to their rationale of obscuring the real reason for supporting the exiting of the UK on a no deal basis. It's laughable that people believe such nonsense about the UK securing new deals would benefit the populace.  

Isn't it also laughable how the remoaners keep saying how much better off if we stay in the EU, even with the Lisbon Treaty taking away most of  our existing rights and laws, and how much better all the people will be

Perhaps you could explain to us, and most of the business and MPs EXACTLY how staying in and abiding by the Lisbon Treaty will make anyone in the UK better off, cos all i hear. to quote "Bottom" is, Slime in this ear, Slime in this ear