yeah, CM's wilted, and i'm wilting

[thaibeachlovers]

42 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

That's a bit mean to termites.  They are part of nature and do the job of recycling dead wood, they also are food for other animals.

 

Humans, on the other hand don't give anything back to the 'cycle of life' and we are more like a virus which will destroy everything. 

 

I think we might have a massive population crash in the future, but not go extinct.  Sadly, we will drag a lot of other species do real extinction.. never to return, by humanities greed.

 

I live in CM, and around my area was beautiful rice fields, old tall trees, lakes and lots of wildlife.  Now much of it is a concrete jungle, messy, eyesore.  The fields are mostly all filled in and built on, same as the lakes and ponds.  The big trees chopped down in the process, and the ones left are just cut down for money for the wood.  There is also a massive problem with dumping rubbish all around the remaining countryside and even in the forests on the mountains, as well as illegal quarries and the usual burning and killing / eating the wildlife that is left. 

 

This place needs to get some building regulations, and regulations for preserving the countryside too, otherwise in the future it will all be gone... ugly houses and congested roads right up to the mountains (then they will start building on them). 

Greed reigns supreme, and scenic beauty comes nowhere when it comes to money. 

[rumak]

23 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

This place needs to get some building regulations, and regulations for preserving the countryside too, otherwise in the future it will all be gone... ugly houses and congested roads right up to the mountains (then they will start building on them). 

Sorry to repeat my post (no.12) :  

From the closing few lines of the article :  " How to change attitudes? It comes back to awareness and education."        

That is always a very convenient way to end an article or broadcast or you name it.

If honesty was ever in fashion the next line would be,  "GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ! "

 

I am not a pessimist !  I try with all my will to take care of the things I can control.  From my 60 plus years on this planet, having lived in many different locales and watched the "development" of  the modern world, my conclusion is that the inevitable path of "progress" is one that destroys more than enhances what I view as valuable for a healthy and happy world.   Hey, just my opinion ! 

And since I also believe that "there's no stopping progress",  I have been fortunate enough in my later years to step slightly to the side as progress comes roaring through. Nice to see from this thread that at least a few others have found happy alternatives .  

I do realize that cities offer most people (that is why they are so big) an economic or social advantage.

But wouldn't it be nice if we could put a "cap" on how big a nice place can become?  Sort of like what fire marshals do at entertainment venues.  Just a thought  ????

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, rumak said:

Sorry to repeat my post (no.12) :  

From the closing few lines of the article :  " How to change attitudes? It comes back to awareness and education."        

That is always a very convenient way to end an article or broadcast or you name it.

If honesty was ever in fashion the next line would be,  "GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ! "

 

I am not a pessimist !  I try with all my will to take care of the things I can control.  From my 60 plus years on this planet, having lived in many different locales and watched the "development" of  the modern world, my conclusion is that the inevitable path of "progress" is one that destroys more than enhances what I view as valuable for a healthy and happy world.   Hey, just my opinion ! 

And since I also believe that "there's no stopping progress",  I have been fortunate enough in my later years to step slightly to the side as progress comes roaring through. Nice to see from this thread that at least a few others have found happy alternatives .  

I do realize that cities offer most people (that is why they are so big) an economic or social advantage.

But wouldn't it be nice if we could put a "cap" on how big a nice place can become?  Sort of like what fire marshals do at entertainment venues.  Just a thought  ????

Remember what the locals said when "The Beach" beach near Phi Phi was closed because the coral was ruined ? They screamed that they would lose money. They don't care about the environment, or that it was they that destroyed it- all they care about is money. Such is the sad state of affairs everywhere in Thailand.

I don't think anything will change till  Burma sorts itself out and all the tourists abandon LOS to go there. Then they'll really have something to scream about.

[jak2002003]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Remember what the locals said when "The Beach" beach near Phi Phi was closed because the coral was ruined ? They screamed that they would lose money. They don't care about the environment, or that it was they that destroyed it- all they care about is money. Such is the sad state of affairs everywhere in Thailand.

I don't think anything will change till  Burma sorts itself out and all the tourists abandon LOS to go there. Then they'll really have something to scream about.

And then, very likely, the same destruction of nature and the environment / culture etc will happen there too.  

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, jak2002003 said:

And then, very likely, the same destruction of nature and the environment / culture etc will happen there too.  

Probably, but it's virtually untouched by tourism now, so it'll be a few years before it's ruined. Maybe by then, LOS will have got it's act together, after all the customers vanish.

[TPI]

On 6/26/2019 at 9:25 PM, Throatwobbler said:

Quote "burgeoning metropolitan area of 12 million people". Not sure if that is quite accurate.

 

Hot and dry as well! Damn!

[Captain 776]

DONT FORGET......NO ONE INVITED YOU HERE~!!

 

We are all guests in this country, if you like it.....enjoy it.

If you dont like it LEAVE~!!

No one is holding you and for sure you wont be missed.

 

Other than this new thing of burning large areas to plant corn for China, Thais have been burning fields since before any of us were born and I am 67.

Like it......or leave it~~!!!

 

I worked Oil n Gas for 47 yrs, cant count all the countries I have lived and worked, some were open sewers, go live in Angola, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi, The Congo for a while, that will stop you from complaining about Chiang Mai.

[StevieAus]

21 hours ago, Small Joke said:

Agree with Trujillo and Rumak.

All that needs fixing is the burning (an ASEAN issue) and e-tolls on the moat and inner city sois.

 

The ring roads system and highway south is being continually upgraded, and nearly finished, that's great. Safer u turns have been built and others closed. Speed cameras are coming... FANTASTIC!

There's a real bus service that has begun. Grab car and bike are killing the old transport mafia slowly.

Meechok market area has two great supermarkets and everything in between, including upmarket and very lively wine bar.

Plus some racey 'nong bars' that are very reasonable and great fun.

All we need is a Dukes outlet, and I'll die happy. 

Things change, it's life.

I can remember when Sydney was affordable, and easy to get around, the Pacific Highway on the North Shore there is a nightmare, with no solution. And the nightlife sucks as ever, but it was never Sydney's strongest draw. I'll take CM thanks.

It’s no better on the South side either with Princes Hwy and General Holmes Drive

Five years ago when I last visited we decided to visit Bowral using the M5 leaving about 7 am, the traffic was at a crawl as far back as Liverpool.

As far as the city is concerned once the workers go home it seems pretty dead.

[VillageIdiot]

39 minutes ago, Captain 776 said:

DONT FORGET......NO ONE INVITED YOU HERE~!!

 

We are all guests in this country, if you like it.....enjoy it.

If you dont like it LEAVE~!!

No one is holding you and for sure you wont be missed.

 

Other than this new thing of burning large areas to plant corn for China, Thais have been burning fields since before any of us were born and I am 67.

Like it......or leave it~~!!!

 

I worked Oil n Gas for 47 yrs, cant count all the countries I have lived and worked, some were open sewers, go live in Angola, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi, The Congo for a while, that will stop you from complaining about Chiang Mai.

Steady as she goes, Captain.

We don't even qualify as guests here.

I wasn't invited, were you?

We're more like party-crashers who have blundered into a banquet-hall deserted, whose lights are fled, whose garlands dead, and all but he departed.

The festivities ended long ago.

[amexpat]

1 hour ago, Captain 776 said:

If you dont like it LEAVE~!!

The original un-original grumpy old man. 

[jko]

2 hours ago, Captain 776 said:

DONT FORGET......NO ONE INVITED YOU HERE~!!

 

We are all guests in this country, if you like it.....enjoy it.

If you dont like it LEAVE~!!

No one is holding you and for sure you wont be missed.

 

Other than this new thing of burning large areas to plant corn for China, Thais have been burning fields since before any of us were born and I am 67.

Like it......or leave it~~!!!

 

I worked Oil n Gas for 47 yrs, cant count all the countries I have lived and worked, some were open sewers, go live in Angola, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi, The Congo for a while, that will stop you from complaining about Chiang Mai.

With respect Captain, you forget that large numbers of foreign residents and families have settled here, making it their permanent home, and have lived here for decades. Many of these folks sold up everything in their home country, and invested their life savings in Chiang Mai - building homes, and establishing locally-based companies. I know of several retirees who have done the same - casting their lot with Chiang Mai on the basis of having quality of life in a historical city with a healthy climate. Many others have devoted their lives to creating charities in support of disadvantaged children or elderly people.

 

For these residents, your simplistic solution of 'if you don't like it, leave' is not only inappropriate, for many, it would simply be impossible.

 

It would apply to those living here for their own selfish convenience, people who can jump on a flight leaving nothing behind; the kind of person who has made no investment, and feels no commitment to the city, or to its future. On that basis, they certainly will not be missed.

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by jko
typo

[elektrified]

On 6/26/2019 at 10:36 PM, Bruce Aussie Chiang Mai said:

Thailand nothing will change. I love Chiang Mai basxxxds won't smoke me out. 20 kms out town nice. When smoke dad head inside. Turn on aircon and air purifier in bedroom relax watch Netflix.  Worst come worst put your head under blankets with the missus. ????❤????????

Clearly you don't get up in the morning and go to work!

[jak2002003]

3 hours ago, Captain 776 said:

DONT FORGET......NO ONE INVITED YOU HERE~!!

 

We are all guests in this country, if you like it.....enjoy it.

If you dont like it LEAVE~!!

No one is holding you and for sure you wont be missed.

 

Other than this new thing of burning large areas to plant corn for China, Thais have been burning fields since before any of us were born and I am 67.

Like it......or leave it~~!!!

 

I worked Oil n Gas for 47 yrs, cant count all the countries I have lived and worked, some were open sewers, go live in Angola, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi, The Congo for a while, that will stop you from complaining about Chiang Mai.

We are not saying we don't like Thailand.  We are saying that some of Chiang Mai is getting spoilt.  There is no need to leave a place because there are some parts of life there you don't like... no country is 100 percent perfect!.

 

It's not wrong to comment when we see things being misused or abused is it?

[Sparkles]

I dont see anything wrong in commenting and hoping the CM power brokers will realise what CM had and steps they will hopefully take to preserve what is left. Isnt that what forums are for ...opinions?

 

CM ,IMO,is being changed,in a negative way, with the influence of money and greed with a total disregard for future generations.

 

Most cities have town planners who have a say in controlling rampant development with its relative lack of support infrastucture

 

I doubt we would have moved here from Bangkok 11 yrs ago if we knew how CM was going to "explode" but our crystal ball was misplaced before making the move and once one reaches an advanced age re locating becomes a monumental task.

 

If single and still at a youngish age its easy to move on which apparently is a decison many are making.

 

 

[rumak]

6 hours ago, Sparkles said:

I dont see anything wrong in commenting and hoping the CM power brokers will realise what CM had and steps they will hopefully take to preserve what is left. Isnt that what forums are for ...opinions?

 

CM ,IMO,is being changed,in a negative way, with the influence of money and greed with a total disregard for future generations.

 

Most cities have town planners who have a say in controlling rampant development with its relative lack of support infrastucture

 

I doubt we would have moved here from Bangkok 11 yrs ago if we knew how CM was going to "explode" but our crystal ball was misplaced before making the move and once one reaches an advanced age re locating becomes a monumental task.

 

If single and still at a youngish age its easy to move on which apparently is a decison many are making.

 

 

there's a traffic jam of wheelchair bound farangs heading across the river towards the Arcade bus station as we speak.  oops, sorry.... wife just told me they are heading to the annual July 4 festival at the consulate.  Hear it takes a few days to get clearance.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, VillageIdiot said:

Steady as she goes, Captain.

We don't even qualify as guests here.

I wasn't invited, were you?

We're more like party-crashers who have blundered into a banquet-hall deserted, whose lights are fled, whose garlands dead, and all but he departed.

The festivities ended long ago.

I don't remember when the Thais stopped smiling, but whenever it was was the time the festivities ended.

I can pin the death of the farang nite scene though. It was when Purachai was running amok

[Chazar]

On 6/26/2019 at 10:36 PM, Bruce Aussie Chiang Mai said:

Worst come worst put your head under blankets with the missus. ????❤????????

What time shall I pop round?????

[Nowisee]

This years exodus from "The Smoking Rose" 1 Mar-30 Apr wasn't long enough.  Next year Jan-Jun.  Then why even bother living here?  

 

 

 

 

 

[qoh]

On 6/27/2019 at 10:24 PM, Trujillo said:

"Some people and pets coughed blood, and hundreds were treated at hospitals for respiratory diseases."

 

I did not hear or read of a single case of pet and humans coughing blood. I would take this as highly suspect; perhaps outright fabrication. 

 

"Chiang Mai already records the country's highest incidence of lung cancer."

 

Lampang is the highest lung cancer rate in the nation, not Chiang Mai. 

 

"With some 70% of municipal income derived from tourism,..."

 

Sounds high to me. In 2016, Chiang Mai only had 7% of total foreign tourists visiting Thailand, according to a study by the SCB. 

 

"The Old City, the seat of bygone kings, is packed with restaurants, boutique hotels, souvenir shops and tattoo parlors."

 

Packed with tattoo parlors? Uh, okay....

 

"Official statistics are not yet available, but by one estimate -- from guesthouse owner Annette Brady -- arrivals plunged by 30% for the Thai New Year festival, the high point of Chiang Mai's annual tourism calendar."

 

Uh...this isn't what you'd call good journalism. I can't be bothered to do any research so I will ask the owner of the guesthouse I'm staying in for the "facts." 

 

"Businesses complained about lack of customers and even such sites as Thapae Gate along the Old City wall, particularly popular with Chinese tourists, were nearly empty on some days."

 

Sounds hyperbolic to me. 

 

As a former editor, I'd give this story just less credit than some in-flight magazine fare. Other than having a bad burning season, this is pretty much standard -- urbanization comes at a cost. It's always been this way and will continue as such. 

 And by the way, what exactly has been lost in the past 10 years for example? The temples are still here and maintained (albeit non-Thais have to pay for what ought to be free); the waterfalls and natural areas are basically the same; good northern Thai food can be still obtained. The beef about encroachment on Doi Sutep park land (which was resolved, as I understand it with reclamation of the area that was alleged to have been cleared that was inside the park boundary), is a red herring -- I couldn't find that place if I tried to. The article is disingenuous in that it makes it sound like the temple grounds itself was violated by construction. 

What exactly have we lost? It seems to me the problem is that we've not as much open space as before, perhaps, but then you'd have to look back farther than 10 years to really see that. 

=

 

Trujillo apparently did not do his own research before posting negative comments about Dennis Gray’s article, as being: “highly suspect; perhaps outright fabrication” or: “isn't what you'd call good journalism” or: giving the story: “less credit than some in-flight magazine fare”.

 

A simple Google search would have led him to Gray’s bio here, and some of his articles, such as this interview with the late King Bhumibol Adulyadej.

 

Had he done this, he would also have learned that Denis Gray joined The Associated Press in 1972 and was posted to Thailand in 1976. He served as the AP Bureau Chief Bangkok for 30 years, covering major stories in Asia, Africa, the Middle East, and Europe. He retired to Chiang Mai, and today remains one of the most respected writers in Asia.

 

As a former editor, this kind of discourtesy must leave Trujillo’s professionalism in some doubt.

 

To set his record straight:

 

•    Coughing blood (haemoptysis) is a symptom of pulmonary disease ranging from bronchitis to cancer. Such respiratory illnesses are often engendered by exposure to years of toxic air pollution, as is the case in Chiang Mai. Animals, particularly dogs, can demonstrate this as well as humans.

•    According to the NCBI report: "Risk Patterns of Lung Cancer Mortality in Northern Thailand" published in September 2018: “the overall risk of lung cancer mortality was the highest in the west of northern Thailand, especially in the Hang Dong, Doi Lo, and San Pa Tong districts” These areas are all located in Chiang Mai.

•    Only 30% of tourists visiting Chiang Mai are foreigners, the remaining 70% are Thai people. This ratio is obvious on most domestic flights from Bangkok. Since a large number of western visitors are young travellers with limited spending power, this figure sounds accurate.

•    Annette Brady has operated her travel agency and guest house since 1988, and has long-term connections to some of the most senior figures in the private and government sectors of the travel industry. With 31 years of experience in seasons good and bad, few people here, if any, would be better qualified to comment.  

•    The 23.5 hectare scar carved out on Doi Suthep carved is clearly visible from the ‘white piano’ building on the Canal Road.

 

Both the Doi Suthep encroachment case and Denis Gray’s article, will stand as testament to greed and corruption: – the bad and the ugly of Chiang Mai, which threaten to overshadow everything that is good.

 

 

[chingmai331]

Is 'qoh' in fact, Denis Gray?  

[rumak]

49 minutes ago, chingmai331 said:

Is 'qoh' in fact, Denis Gray?  

haha   good question.    well, whoever it is they did leave forget ? to qualify the tattoo parlor bs  

i guess they are out there counting the shops as we speak

[dcnx]

On 6/27/2019 at 10:24 PM, Trujillo said:

humans coughing blood

I’ve coughed blood here, it’s not really uncommon. The pollution is another reason we’re leaving, the past couple of years have done a number on my lungs. Years prior didn’t bother me other than the normal burning eyes.

 

Our health has to take priority. That’s all we have.

[daveAustin]

On 6/27/2019 at 2:14 AM, mania said:

Life is too short & precious & the world has many many great spots.

 

We loved our CM life in the years we lived there but by 2016 the writing on the wall was clear enough for us to sell everything & leave.

No regrets as we know the CM we loved never returned because we visited a few times since then & nodded in agreement that we made the right choice.

Left before you when CM went snafu. Still visit on occasion but to be fair miss the place massively. Some great spots around and about for riders. Hope it doesn't get consigned to the dustbin.

[Trujillo]

Because a journalist has been around for some time does not make him laudable. Look at Carl Bernstein for example. 

 

•    Coughing blood (haemoptysis) is a symptom of pulmonary disease ranging from bronchitis to cancer. Such respiratory illnesses are often engendered by exposure to years of toxic air pollution, as is the case in Chiang Mai. Animals, particularly dogs, can demonstrate this as well as humans.

 

The operative word here is "can." Sure, it can, but does it, or more to the point, did it? I'd like to see some substantiated evidence that this was happening during the last burning season (and with pets too). I'm not saying it never happened, but the way its put in the article is clearly sensationalistic and as far as I know, not backed by facts. 

 

•    According to the NCBI report: "Risk Patterns of Lung Cancer Mortality in Northern Thailand" published in September 2018: “the overall risk of lung cancer mortality was the highest in the west of northern Thailand, especially in the Hang Dong, Doi Lo, and San Pa Tong districts” These areas are all located in Chiang Mai.

•    Only 30% of tourists visiting Chiang Mai are foreigners, the remaining 70% are Thai people. This ratio is obvious on most domestic flights from Bangkok. Since a large number of western visitors are young travellers with limited spending power, this figure sounds accurate.

 

Good thing is "sounds accurate" to you. I guess your copy editing toolbox includes what "sounds right." 

 

•    Annette Brady has operated her travel agency and guest house since 1988, and has long-term connections to some of the most senior figures in the private and government sectors of the travel industry. With 31 years of experience in seasons good and bad, few people here, if any, would be better qualified to comment.  

 

You don't get it. However long she's been here, asking only her is taking a sample size of one. Good journalism doesn't work that way.

 

•    The 23.5 hectare scar carved out on Doi Suthep carved is clearly visible from the ‘white piano’ building on the Canal Road.

 

Oh, the famous "white piano" building on the Canal Road. Why didn't you say so? Ah, how fondly I recall sitting listening to the lilting strains of the piano sipping cognac with the loquacious Ms. Annette. Or is "white piano" code for some sort of fun powder? 

So facetiousness aside, you have to know exactly the right spot to notice this "scar," is it? 

[bkk6060]

Over time I have spent 3 of the first 6 months of the year in CM.

I like many things about it. Playing golf especially. But, my biggest complaint is when the hell does the sun come out??

Today is another gloomy overcast day.

I think maybe 3 or 4 of the days I have been here it was sunny. Otherwise, clouds and drizzle. Kind of a mood downer for me.

Seems more like Seattle then any place I have been. 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by bkk6060

[mania]

5 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Left before you when CM went snafu. Still visit on occasion but to be fair miss the place massively. Some great spots around and about for riders. Hope it doesn't get consigned to the dustbin.

Well I think we were both smart to do so ????

 

Of course we also miss it & our life there, business etc it was all very nice for the years that were good.

 

But life is short & precious. This world has many truly beautiful locations with clean air & safe roads.

CM is not going anywhere & you never know maybe someday they will get it together....But for now....not a place for a healthy life

Edited July 6, 2019 by mania

[moontang]

I had traces of blood out my nose once or twice.  I think qol peaked in 2007.  All the crap pulled after General P took over was simply insult to injury. 

[mike787]

Yep!  Very true, no getting around it...the good run is long over and gone for good...wouldn't bother with CM.

[Trujillo]

bkk6060....your sample size is too small. And you should be happy about the overcast days. Keeps it cooler for the season and very good for golf.