Thanathorn says PM is the cause of Thailand’s political ills

[candide]

Frankly, I am not that shocked by this ministerial seats distribution. It happens everywhere else, in particular when there is a proportional system. It's just more blabant and ridiculous here, i.e. when they put a familly member to replace them in case there is a legal impediment for them to take the seat.

 

The key issue is that Prayut is de facto the only one allowed to form a government because of the appointed Senate. The rest is just details.

[pornprong]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

How is this different offering up seats (a bribe just like the junta bribed them) to join their coalition. 

 

That the PTP / FFW were the preferred choice (mine too ) is clear. But they both junta and PTP / FFW offered posts (translates into money) to join them. The intentions might have been better (Thanathorns for sure PTP not so sure) but the action how to get the outcome was the same offer post for support. So tell me why is it wrong when one side does it and not when the other side does it ? 

 

Just because you (and I) like this side more ?

 

What's wrong with you?

How can you not see the difference?

I really worry for your accountancy clientele.

Do you even know the difference between an asset and a liability?

 

The Democrats, BJT and the other minor parties that joined PPRP demanded ministries in return for their support.

 

PTP demanded, not ministries, but a commitment to not support Prayuth and to reinstate democracy.

 

One side demanded benefits for themselves, the other benefits for the country?

One side was selfish, the other altruistic.

 

[Searat7]

10 hours ago, robblok said:

I supported the coup that is right, but changed my mind after they did not leave. In the past they always did. If the PTP was less corrupt then there would never have been enough support to dislodge them. So you can say what you want basically corruption is the reason and to think that (for now with exception of FFW) the other politicians are not in it for themselves is laughable. 

 

Until the money is taken out of politics this will go on forever.

For the first year it actually looked like they were making some progress but then it became apparent that corruption and feeding at the trough would cause their “roadmap” to be extended. Also I never saw one attempt to bring about reconciliation which would be a necessary step toward a true democracy,..something most of us will not see here in our lifetimes.

[Eric Loh]

54 minutes ago, pornprong said:

This paper studies the influence of democracy on the level of corruption. In particular, does democracy necessarily reduce a country’s level of corruption? The growing consensus reveals that there is an inverse correlation between democracy and corruption; the more democracy and the less corruption.

 

https://esacentral.org.au/images/Saha.pdf

 

Studies have demonstrated that while very high levels of democracy reduce corruption, low to modest levels of democracy actually increase corruption.1

 

http://bseim.web.unc.edu/files/2016/08/6-McMann-et-al_B.pdf

 

The junta has given Thailand low to modest level of democracy, guess why?

(if you need some help, read the red text above)

 

 

When a country has weak democratic institutions and political rights, corruption rate is at their highest like Thailand. Top 10 countries in the world with low rate of corruption are democratic. 

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/least-corrupt-countries-transparency-international-2018/

 

Sustainable democracy has a better chance to reduce corruption. Seem a simple logic which some here still find hard to understand.

[robblok]

42 minutes ago, pornprong said:

What's wrong with you?

How can you not see the difference?

I really worry for your accountancy clientele.

Do you even know the difference between an asset and a liability?

 

The Democrats, BJT and the other minor parties that joined PPRP demanded ministries in return for their support.

 

PTP demanded, not ministries, but a commitment to not support Prayuth and to reinstate democracy.

 

One side demanded benefits for themselves, the other benefits for the country?

One side was selfish, the other altruistic.

 

No your not seeing it right. My clients are satisfied with me. I get more and more of them. So obviously I am doing it well. 

 

Again your missing the point, both sides offered ministeries to join their side. They both did exactly the same thing.  If you can't see that I am not sure what job if any you have you must suck at it. Unless your job is defending the PTP in that case you get A for effort. 

 

I prefer FFW  coalition but in the end both did exactly the same thing to get a bigger coalition offer posts (a bribe) for a side to join. So both did the same thing. 

 

I see no difference in the method of acquiring a coalition (in this case). 

[robblok]

56 minutes ago, candide said:

Frankly, I am not that shocked by this ministerial seats distribution. It happens everywhere else, in particular when there is a proportional system. It's just more blabant and ridiculous here, i.e. when they put a familly member to replace them in case there is a legal impediment for them to take the seat.

 

The key issue is that Prayut is de facto the only one allowed to form a government because of the appointed Senate. The rest is just details.

I am not shocked by it either, have seen it in my country. What I am shocked about is that both did it and now one side is blaming the other for doing it. Just stupid.

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

When a country has weak democratic institutions and political rights, corruption rate is at their highest like Thailand. Top 10 countries in the world with low rate of corruption are democratic. 

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/least-corrupt-countries-transparency-international-2018/

 

Sustainable democracy has a better chance to reduce corruption. Seem a simple logic which some here still find hard to understand.

Yes but your the one that says accept corruption, while I am the one that disagrees with it. In my country corruption is much much lower. Probably much lower then in the US for sure. Why because it gets punished harshly and there are many rules. Rules that have never ever been put in place here because NONE of the politicians want it. So its not a democracy here at all (maybe a starting one but a far far far from good one and it wont change because the politicians dont want it to change)

[pornprong]

13 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes but your the one that says accept corruption, while I am the one that disagrees with it. In my country corruption is much much lower. Probably much lower then in the US for sure. Why because it gets punished harshly and there are many rules. Rules that have never ever been put in place here because NONE of the politicians want it. So its not a democracy here at all (maybe a starting one but a far far far from good one and it wont change because the politicians dont want it to change)

Haha, you say that your country has pretty low corruption, do you think that if you guys had a coup or two that you could eliminate corruption completely?

Or, in your opinion, do fascist coups only work against corruption in Asian countries?

Do you support a coup in your home country to eliminate corruption?

Please enlighten us.

Edited July 3, 2019 by pornprong

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, pornprong said:

Haha, you say that your country has pretty low corruption, do you think that if you guys had a coup or two that you could eliminate corruption completely?

Or, in your opinion, do fascist coups only work against corruption in Asian countries?

Do you support a coup in your home country to eliminate corruption?

Please enlighten us.

You know what you will get an reply here if you counter post #66 first. This is going off topic quite a bit. 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

You must be reading a different version of Thai history from me then as those old dictators like Prem, Thanin and Phibun never left. 

I was thinking recent history unlike you im not ancient yet. Previous coup i saw here was quick and over soon. 

[nickstav]

Follow the money.

[pornprong]

35 minutes ago, robblok said:

No your not seeing it right. My clients are satisfied with me. I get more and more of them. So obviously I am doing it well. 

 

Again your missing the point, both sides offered ministeries to join their side. They both did exactly the same thing.  If you can't see that I am not sure what job if any you have you must suck at it. Unless your job is defending the PTP in that case you get A for effort. 

 

I prefer FFW  coalition but in the end both did exactly the same thing to get a bigger coalition offer posts (a bribe) for a side to join. So both did the same thing. 

 

I see no difference in the method of acquiring a coalition (in this case). 

In each case, cui bono?

 

Democrats, BJT and PPRP traded seats for cabinet positions.............cui bono?

 

PTP offered seats for a return to democracy................cui bono?

Edited July 3, 2019 by pornprong

[robblok]

1 minute ago, pornprong said:

In each case, cui bono?

 

Democrats, BJT and PPRP traded seats for cabinet positions

 

PTP offered seats for a return to democracy

Your funny, I think ill stop its impossible to argue with fanatics. 

 

PTP offered cabinet positions to BJT and Democrats to join their coalition.

PPRP offered cabinet positions to BJT and Democrats to join their coalition

 

Same thing how blind are you that you can't see that they both did the same thing.

That one side is better then the other side is true or at least i prefer the FFW but that does not change the way both sides went to get their coalition by offering up cabinet positions a bribe. 

 

So both did exactly the same thing. 

 

Now that is my last post on this subject unless you come with something new. 

[pornprong]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your funny, I think ill stop its impossible to argue with fanatics. 

 

PTP offered cabinet positions to BJT and Democrats to join their coalition.

PPRP offered cabinet positions to BJT and Democrats to join their coalition

 

Same thing how blind are you that you can't see that they both did the same thing.

That one side is better then the other side is true or at least i prefer the FFW but that does not change the way both sides went to get their coalition by offering up cabinet positions a bribe. 

 

So both did exactly the same thing. 

 

Now that is my last post on this subject unless you come with something new. 

Again and again you have accused all sides of only being greedy, of only being interested in getting "access to the trough".

 

The Democrats and BJT campaign on not joining PPRP, then after the election, they go against their word and join PPRP in exchange for access to the trough.

 

PTP on the other hand, say we don't care about the trough, we don't demand access to the trough, we don't care if we have ZERO access to the trough, we are willing to offer our support to any parties willing to join a coalition that supports a reinstating democracy.

 

You probably shouldn't reply to this post, instead let me help you out with your accountancy job

 

[the guest]

Oh dear, he couldn't keep his mouth shut !

Time to flee Thailand I'd say !

 

[Eric Loh]

59 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes but your the one that says accept corruption, while I am the one that disagrees with it. In my country corruption is much much lower. Probably much lower then in the US for sure. Why because it gets punished harshly and there are many rules. Rules that have never ever been put in place here because NONE of the politicians want it. So its not a democracy here at all (maybe a starting one but a far far far from good one and it wont change because the politicians dont want it to change)

I said sustained democracy will reduce corruption only for you to twist it around and said I accept corruption. You do have the habit of changing the subject and divert the conservation away to meet your agenda. Anyway if you disagree with corruption, then you should agree with democracy. That’s what I am saying but not getting through to you. Speaking against democracy and speaking well on behalf of the junta that dismantle political institutions and human rights seem to me that you are actually a very confused person. 

[sjaak327]

10 hours ago, robblok said:

I still think the scrapping statute of limitations is a great thing for those who flee abroad, i just think it should apply to everyone also people like the red bull killer. However that wont happen unfortunately this is a minor step in the right direction.

 

The truth is we don't know if the current lot is more corrupt. You can assume as much if you like you won't have an argument there from me. One of the reasons i would rather have seen PTP and FFW in power is because they can be checked better then the current lot. So again no argument there.

 

You and I both know that as long as a government is in power they will protect their own YL did that with the rice program saying she checked it and threatened the whistle blowers and so on. So don't act like it will all work. It just does not work. Sure sometimes they get someone but not as often as they should.  

 

I agree its harder to go after the current mob then normal politicians but even normal politicians have too much power. 

 

Its funny to see the PTP and FFW try the same things as the junta (persuading them to join them for good ministerial posts) and now Thanathorn (the person i like the most) is attacking the PM for that. I think that is a bit unfair as both tried it and we see so many politicians defect for money its just shameful. But its not just one side who does this and that is something almost nobody wants to acknowledge. 

 

It does show how corrupt and utter self serving they all are.

 

 

DId you even read the article, he is not blaming Prayuth for offering ministerial posts to coalition partners.

and.. the problem is not with coalition partners, but with members of his own party, because even though Prayuth claims that the politicians were to blame for the country's problem, he persuaded those very same politicians, even from the so hated PTP, to join his party.

 

In fact by offering certain posts to the 18 other parties, he probably created the problem because these defectors were probably promised some of the post that are now given away to coalition parties, because despite the cheating by the EC, the disbandment of Raksa Thai and the massive vote-buying by Prayuth, he still did not manage to get enough votes and win the election...

 

In any case this is what Thanatorn said, there is absolutely nothing incorrect or hypocritic about his words. 

 

“The problem did not come from the fight for (cabinet) seats among the politicians, but from the NCPO (National Council for Peace and Order) holding on to power,” said Thanathorn.

The Future Forward party leader then blamed the framers of the Constitution for designing the charter in such a way that weakens political parties, enabling the junta to prolong its grip on power.

He also noted that the longer the formation of the government takes, the longer the unfettered special powers of Section 44 of the interim constitution can be wielded.

Edited July 3, 2019 by sjaak327

[mania]

19 hours ago, dcnx said:

He’s definitely on the short list.

I don't think so...of course an extreme could happen but it would be very bad for business.

 

This guy Thanathorn has the eyes of many countries watching not like the poor guy Ja New who recently got beaten on the street by hired thugs.

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by mania

[robblok]

 

10 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

I said sustained democracy will reduce corruption only for you to twist it around and said I accept corruption. You do have the habit of changing the subject and divert the conservation away to meet your agenda. Anyway if you disagree with corruption, then you should agree with democracy. That’s what I am saying but not getting through to you. Speaking against democracy and speaking well on behalf of the junta that dismantle political institutions and human rights seem to me that you are actually a very confused person. 

I have nothing against democracy, I have something against people accepting corruption like you shown so many times. Your denying it now but you say it in not so many words.

 

Your right that a democracy CAN reduce corruption and i agree, however if you have a not working democracy it does do a thing. Its the fact that in Thailand democracy does NOT work for reducing corruption because all the politicians are holding it back. I know the army does too even more so maybe. However fact remains that the politicians are not willing to reign themselves in too many examples of corruption are available. In my country politicians made laws about behaviour and they were supported by all. I just don't see that happening in Thailand so I can only conclude that it does not always work. 

[robblok]

11 hours ago, pornprong said:

Again and again you have accused all sides of only being greedy, of only being interested in getting "access to the trough".

 

The Democrats and BJT campaign on not joining PPRP, then after the election, they go against their word and join PPRP in exchange for access to the trough.

 

PTP on the other hand, say we don't care about the trough, we don't demand access to the trough, we don't care if we have ZERO access to the trough, we are willing to offer our support to any parties willing to join a coalition that supports a reinstating democracy.

 

You probably shouldn't reply to this post, instead let me help you out with your accountancy job

 

Sorry but your so funny I just cant take you serious anymore. The PTP is not interested in access to the through. Tell that to the billions they stole in fake G2G deals. I do thank you for making me laugh i needed it. Sorry for me not believing a leopard will change its  spot. never seen anyone as gullible as you.

 

No need for accounting advise from you my business is booming. 

[Rhys]

... oh kind sir, do explain....

[pornprong]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Sorry but your so funny I just cant take you serious anymore. The PTP is not interested in access to the through. Tell that to the billions they stole in fake G2G deals. I do thank you for making me laugh i needed it. Sorry for me not believing a leopard will change its  spot. never seen anyone as gullible as you.

 

No need for accounting advise from you my business is booming. 

Your logic plays like a Tarantino movie, absolutely no regard for chronology.

 

I'm not sure if you are aware or not, but the rice scheme occurred over 5 years ago whereas the election was this year.

 

In 2019, during the month of May, PTP offered to give up "access to the trough" in order to establish a coalition that would return democracy to Thailand, a very altruistic and noble position to take - how on earth can what happened 5 years ago alter this fact.

 

Your logic?

Your logic is like saying someone who has pledged to quit drinking in 2019 failed in his pledge because he had a beer in 2013.

 

By god I worry for your clients.

 

BTW - I see you dodged answering whether you support a coup in your home country, as you do for Thailand, to reduce the level of corruption?

Edited July 4, 2019 by pornprong