U.S. Navy SEAL acquitted of murder in war crimes trial

[Mel52]

That’s pretty much all I can say about it because what do I know about this situation? nothing and neither does anyone else talking about it on here. We can be arm chair quarterbacks all day long but at the end of the day we don’t really know what happened unless you were actually there, saw it, or involved in the situation somehow. Who am I or any of us to judge this man? And again I served for 21 years and on 5 combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and I’m still no one to judge this man either way and neither are any of you.

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Mel52 said:

That’s pretty much all I can say about it because what do I know about this situation? nothing and neither does anyone else talking about it on here. We can be arm chair quarterbacks all day long but at the end of the day we don’t really know what happened unless you were actually there, saw it, or involved in the situation somehow. Who am I or any of us to judge this man? And again I served for 21 years and on 5 combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and I’m still no one to judge this man either way and neither are any of you.

 

 

Ignorance is bliss.  Deliberate ignorance is just that.

 

[petemoss]

20 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

we don’t really know what happened unless you were actually there, saw it, or involved in the situation somehow. Who am I or any of us to judge this man?

Did the jury actually see it, were they there or involved in the situation? By your logic, they have no right to judge either. Luckily the judicial system doesn't work like that or few, if any criminals would be convicted.

[Mel52]

 

Ignorance is bliss.  Deliberate ignorance is just that.

 

Yeah well I see a lot of ignorance being posted about this which is the only reason why I bothered to speak up at all. Besides that I don’t care it didn’t concern me. But to be clear I DO NOT condone war crimes.

 

On my second tour I used to protect little girls in Afghanistan on one particular mission out of many that I was on who were just trying to go to school. But the Taliban would sneak into their village near Kandahar at night from their hide outs in the mountains and threaten the village elders that if they allowed the young girls to go to school they would cut off their ears. So our Team Sergeant said to the village elders “ok tell us where they are and we’ll go kill them”. The village elders were to scared to talk about it but we did eventually find that particular group of Taliban fighters and we did eventually take care of it the way Special Forces takes care of things in combat. And the young Afghan girls were able to go to school unharmed and freely, at least while I was there anyway I don’t know what it’s like there now anymore after all these years.

 

But I’ve actually been there pal, Iraq and Afghanistan 5 combat tours and 21 years of service so I’m not the one who’s ignorant. I’m simply telling it like it is. But like I said above I don’t care what people think. So I’m done discussing it at this point. On that note I think I’ll take my wife out for dinner and have a few beers. Enjoy your discussion it’s painful to read like watching Fox News or CNN.

[petemoss]

2 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

we did eventually find that particular group of Taliban fighters and we did eventually take care of it the way Special Forces takes care of things in combat.

So presumably you ordered up an air strike and carpet bombed the village.

[Mel52]

So presumably you ordered up an air strike and carpet bombed the village.

WHAT, NO... we went into the mountains at night and engaged them directly no air support was needed but that’s not what this topic is about. And like I said I’m through discussing it at this point. We never “carpet bombed” any villages there we went out of our way and risked our own lives trying to avoid collateral damage. I’m not gonna lie either and say I’ve never seen innocent people die in combat before but not by my hand or anyone I know. Bombing the whole village on purpose is something the Russians would have done but what can I say war sucks.  

 

[Mel52]

Did the jury actually see it, were they there or involved in the situation? By your logic, they have no right to judge either. Luckily the judicial system doesn't work like that or few, if any criminals would be convicted.

The point is that none of us saw it therefore not qualified to judge him anyway I really gotta log off for real now

[petemoss]

4 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

The point is that none of us saw it therefore not qualified to judge him anyway I really gotta log off for real now

Which, by your logic means that the jury had no right to judge him and he could only be judged by the people who were there and saw the incident. His colleagues, who were there, concurred that he had killed an unarmed prisoner with his hunting knife. Oh well....

 

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by petemoss

[Mel52]

So why post them on Facebook? Bragging rights, no other reason.

 

I'm sure that if Facebook was around in Lt. Calleys time, he would have posted pictures on Facebook. It's what the US military are renowned for, killing women, children and men with their hands tied behind their backs. Heroes one and all.

LT. Calley really WoW what a comparison. Regardless I think we can all agree that LT. Calley really should have spent his life in prison because what he did is a proven matter of record and yes I know who LT. Calley is I’m not dumb I’m actually pretty good with my history that was the Vietnam war and a different situation

[Mel52]

Which, by your logic means that the jury had no right to judge him and he could only be judged by the people who were there and saw the incident. His colleagues, who were there, concurred that he had killed an unarmed prisoner with his hunting knife. Oh well....
 
 

Ok man whatever you think you have the right to your opinion as for me I have a life and I gotta log off and go now. I really don’t care what people think I just hate hearing people talk about stuff they know nothing about. I’m a combat veteran myself and I don’t even know anything about it. You have a really nice day.

[wreckingcountry]

To accuse a soldier of murder in an active war zone is nonsense! So the soldier is only allowed to kill in an "authorised" way?? Snowflake mentality!

Idiotic comment ! “Shoot first ask questions later “ Got the US in pretty f**** up state


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[RJRS1301]

5 hours ago, TPI said:

To accuse a soldier of murder in an active war zone is nonsense! So the soldier is only allowed to kill in an "authorised" way?? Snowflake mentality!

Actually yes, that is why there are Rules of War.

 

[mike787]

13 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The guy was charged with war crimes by his own military justice system. And, from the news reports I've read on the case, his own team members testified against him and said he did what he was accused of doing.

 

No, neither you nor I know what happened in the case. But the facts that he was accused by his own team members and then the military prosecution deemed the case strong enough to file charges would suggest all was not right here -- the military jury's verdict notwithstanding.

Charged does not = convicted.  I am aware there is the court of public opinion which I do not concern myself with.  I would rather live amongst a world of Gallaghers' rather than ISIS.  If the majority of thais felt you need to leave Thailand for some trumped up charge, but NO conviction, how would you feel about that?  Does that sit well with you?  We could go round and round on this.  My point is simple:  I prefer the likes of Gallagher given the choices, ie ISIS.  Second, verdict has been rendered, you/I/we are not paid to worry about this, it will fix itself regardless if it is right or wrong.  Sometimes wrong is right, sometimes we need to fail to succeed.  Why?  Nobody knows.  It's  called LIFE!  So who are we to judge anything in the grand scheme of things.  Therefore, keep it simple.  If you really need/want to worry about something worry about Thai immigration, your visa, and reporting to Thai immigration (aka mom).  Otherwise get some rest.     

[petemoss]

3 minutes ago, mike787 said:

Charged does not = convicted.  I am aware there is the court of public opinion which I do not concern myself with.  I would rather live amongst a world of Gallaghers' rather than ISIS.  If the majority of thais felt you need to leave Thailand for some trumped up charge, but NO conviction, how would you feel about that?  Does that sit well with you?  We could go round and round on this.  My point is simple:  I prefer the likes of Gallagher given the choices, ie ISIS.  Second, verdict has been rendered, you/I/we are not paid to worry about this, it will fix itself regardless if it is right or wrong.  Sometimes wrong is right, sometimes we need to fail to succeed.  Why?  Nobody knows.  It's  called LIFE!  So who are we to judge anything in the grand scheme of things.  Therefore, keep it simple.  If you really need/want to worry about something worry about Thai immigration, your visa, and reporting to Thai immigration (aka mom).  Otherwise get some rest.     

So let's not talk about it, let's talk about Thai Immigration instead. Typical deflection from Trump's base.

[Baerboxer]

On 7/3/2019 at 8:50 AM, wreckingcountry said:

Fake Yankee military court! It was never going to convict one of their own . Even though witnesses saw the act


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Yes we must protect the rights of terrorists who murder men, women and children brutally and often video it for their pleasure; and enslave girls for sexual and other purposes.

 

If you ever get caught by a terrorist organization you might change your mind. 

[Mel52]

 

Yes we must protect the rights of terrorists who murder men, women and children brutally and often video it for their pleasure; and enslave girls for sexual and other purposes.

 

If you ever get caught by a terrorist organization you might change your mind. 

 

THANK YOU!

 

And I’m not defending or supporting the guy obviously we should never condone war crimes because we CANNOT be like them. But at the same time who are we to judge him? Unless you were actually there with him or know the facts and not just what they say on the news. Personally I can’t help but sympathize with Chief Gallagher being former Army Special Forces myself but I don’t really have an opinion on him either way. He’s a Navy SEAL which is in the same ball park as what I used to do Special Operations. But I agree with your statement 100%.

 

Happy Fourth of July by the way. Have a good afternoon. I might be living in Thailand but I’m still a patriot of course America has had it’s problems throughout our history and we still have problems but so does the rest of the world. No country is perfect. All we can do as individuals is try to improve and try to unite instead of being so divided because of politics.

[Mel52]

 

Yes we must protect the rights of terrorists who murder men, women and children brutally and often video it for their pleasure; and enslave girls for sexual and other purposes.

 

If you ever get caught by a terrorist organization you might change your mind. 

And I can tell you from personal experience that when you see what these organizations are capable of with your own eyes you just want them all dead. When I took some detainees back to Kandahar airfield a few times it took a lot of restraint not to just hurt some of them just from knowing what they’ve done and who they were. That’s one of the things people who have never been in combat particularly Iraq and Afghanistan can’t possibly understand is what it’s really like in real life. Anyway I should really put my phone down we’re out enjoying the evening at dinner.

[Mel52]

And as a combat veteran myself I know how easy it is to get accused of a war crime we had to be extremely careful and put our own lives in jeopardy to avoid that sometimes. All it takes is someone to say something to some brown nosing JAG Officer attorney and next thing you know there’s an Article 32 investigation or whatever they call it today or CID is involved. The Rules of Engagement (ROE) is always covered in the 5 paragraph OP Order.

 

 

 

 

[Mel52]

Sometimes we had to cover our asses in combat no matter what we were doing even when doing everything by the book. The JAG is quite often out to get you because it’s good for a young JAG Officers career to win a Court Martial. It’s all about what the ROE is and your 5 paragraph OP ORD.

 

[mike787]

2 hours ago, petemoss said:

So let's not talk about it, let's talk about Thai Immigration instead. Typical deflection from Trump's base.

We can talk about anything you feel motived about. ????   Bring it on...TVF is ready for your feelings to be herd...don't keep us waiting, we're an energetic bunch.  LOL. 

[mike787]

5 hours ago, petemoss said:

So how could the jury decide one way or the other? Were they there, did they see it for themselves? No, the decided on the evidence presented to them, that evidence being that he bragged, in texts to his friends, that he had stabbed the Iraqi in the neck with his hunting knife. His colleagues, who were there, corroborated his story. Guilty as charged unless you have an extremely biased jury. and a president who loves playing to his base.

 

Why did he do it? Obviously to brag to his friends and family back home that he had "taken out" an ISIS terrorist with his own hands, he even posed for photos to corroborate his story.. He'll probably leave out the details that the guy was knelt down with his hands tied behind his back and already seriously injured. War hero? No, coward.

The court found him innocent of the "accusations" except one charge relating to photograph with a corpse.  If he killed the ISIS member he is accused of, are you against that?  If you are against that, please educate this forum as to the reasons so that we can be as enlightened as yourself; I am sure many of us would feel disappointed to learn we were betrayed of the truth on this matter. 

[Mel52]

The court found him innocent of the "accusations" except one charge relating to photograph with a corpse.  If he killed the ISIS member he is accused of, are you against that?  If you are against that, please educate this forum as to the reasons so that we can be as enlightened as yourself; I am sure many of us would feel disappointed to learn we were betrayed of the truth on this matter. 

It’s good to see some people post on here using common sense and logic even I’ve taken pictures of dead enemy combatants and prisoners in Afghanistan. I didn’t do it in Iraq though. I’ve only been to Iraq once so I saw more dead bodies and bad things in Afghanistan I have 5 combat deployments total

 

[mike787]

18 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

It’s good to see some people post on here using common sense and logic even I’ve taken pictures of dead enemy combatants and prisoners in Afghanistan. I didn’t do it in Iraq though. I’ve only been to Iraq once so I saw more dead bodies and bad things in Afghanistan I have 5 combat deployments total

 

Feelings mutual. Thx.

I was there for 6 years.  

I must apologize on behalf of the ignorant ones, TVF does not screen for common sense.  Some people you just have to appreciate (I use that term loosely). Heck, even if you used a box of crayons to try and explain, sadly it won't help them understand.????

As for the selfie pic of the corpse, personally, I don't care what anyone does with remaining carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus.  

Edited July 4, 2019 by mike787

[Skallywag]

7 hours ago, Mel52 said:

I can tell you from personal experience that in combat if you even accidentally shoot an innocent civilian 9 chances out of 10 you’re probably going to prison Fort Leavenworth for at least 20 years. And that’s in a combat zone.

Wow - difficult to believe that.  According to news reports I have read almost as many civilians have been killed as have "terrorists"  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/afghanistan-civilian-deaths-hit-record-high-2018-190224071129307.html

"At least 32,000 civilians have been killed and 60,000 wounded in the last decade of the Afghan war, according to the UN.  More civilians were killed in the Afghan war in 2018 than during any other year on record, according to a UN report "

 

 

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Wow - difficult to believe that.  According to news reports I have read almost as many civilians have been killed as have "terrorists"  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/afghanistan-civilian-deaths-hit-record-high-2018-190224071129307.html

"At least 32,000 civilians have been killed and 60,000 wounded in the last decade of the Afghan war, according to the UN.  More civilians were killed in the Afghan war in 2018 than during any other year on record, according to a UN report "

 

 

Many of the civilian  deaths were caused by suicide bombers attacking public places 

[Mel52]

Feelings mutual. Thx.
I was there for 6 years.  
I must apologize on behalf of the ignorant ones, TVF does not screen for common sense.  Some people you just have to appreciate (I use that term loosely). Heck, even if you used a box of crayons to try and explain, sadly it won't help them understand.????
As for the selfie pic of the corpse, personally, I don't care what anyone does with remaining carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus.  

I know there’s no point in arguing with morons online because it doesn’t matter what you say no matter how logical it is they’re just gonna believe what ever they want based on their preconceived notions of what they think happens in combat most of these people would be on the floor crying if they ever even heard a shot close to them

[Mel52]

Wow - difficult to believe that.  According to news reports I have read almost as many civilians have been killed as have "terrorists"  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/afghanistan-civilian-deaths-hit-record-high-2018-190224071129307.html
"At least 32,000 civilians have been killed and 60,000 wounded in the last decade of the Afghan war, according to the UN.  More civilians were killed in the Afghan war in 2018 than during any other year on record, according to a UN report "
 
 

WHOA MAN you must be an expert because if you heard it on TV it must be true right [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

That’s deep man. Some of us have actually been there without bias

[Mel52]

Many of the civilian  deaths were caused by suicide bombers attacking public places 

Yep it’s mostly sectarian violence Muslim against Muslim Sunni against Shiite or against the Kurds. Similar issues in Afghanistan tribal violence

[mike787]

20 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

 

WHOA MAN you must be an expert because if you heard it on TV it must be true right

That’s deep man. Some of us have actually been there without bias

 

He stayed at the holiday Inn watching TV educating himself...????

[Mel52]

He stayed at the holiday Inn watching TV educating himself...????

Uhhhm yeah ok doesn’t make sense but ok.