Electrical problem, socket not grounded/earthed, house not grounded/earthed, no electric wire to put on a nail behind the washing machine ?

[myjawe]

hello,

 

how do you do if a washing machine has a western plug to put on a earthed/grounded socket, but when the house is not grounded ?

 

washing machine

 

to put it in the wall socket we use

 

But  the machine is not grounded, and there is no electric wire behind the machine to put on the ground, so how to do without possibility to ground the house ?

put a wire from a metallic part of the machine on a nail in the ground ?

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

[blackcab]

Moved to the Electrical Forum.

[Gumballl]

A nail will do. Just make sure the nail is about 3m long.

 

Or just use other type of metal rod (such as rebar).

Edited July 10, 2019 by Gumballl

[Langsuan Man]

I snap the odd one off, grounding means nothing in this country 

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Langsuan Man said:

I snap the odd one off, grounding means nothing in this country 

 

Our OP doesn't have a ground pin to snap off, his machine has a Schuko plug with an adaptor (or at least his photo, which links to my website, does).

 

If he had read a little more of the site he would have found http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/2pin.html

 

But, as he intimated, bashing in a rod (about 1m for a single appliance) and running a wire to a convenient screw on the machine is an interim solution.

 

[myjawe]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Our OP doesn't have a ground pin to snap off, his machine has a Schuko plug with an adaptor (or at least his photo, which links to my website, does).

 

If he had read a little more of the site he would have found http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/2pin.html

 

But, as he intimated, bashing in a rod (about 1m for a single appliance) and running a wire to a convenient screw on the machine is an interim solution.

 

 

Sorry I didn't see your website, I just copied the picture from another thread when trying to find replies.

 

Now reading:

http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/2pin.html

Before You Do Anything Else

The first thing to do to get safe(r) is to install an ELCB (RCCB, RCD, GFI, Safe-T-Cut)  if you don't already have one. This is really non-negotiable, if your landlord won't install one, then either move, or pay to have one installed yourself. The cost is not high for the amount of additional Peace of Mind it gives you.

 

Do I have to install a safe-t-cut near the washing machine ? and only for this appliance ?

SafeTcut or any of these ?

https://www.lazada.co.th/catalog/?from=input&q=Earth Leakage Protection&sort=priceasc

 

and where can i find this ? never seen anywhere.

And to do this, how long must be the nail in the ground ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks again for all.

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by myjawe

[sometimewoodworker]

7 minutes ago, myjawe said:

And to do this, how long must be the nail in the ground ?

 

 

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

But, as he intimated, bashing in a rod (about 1m for a single appliance) 

 

Reading previous posts is a good idea ???? 

Edited July 11, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[myjawe]

9 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

 

Reading previous posts is a good idea ???? 

 

Sorry but how can you put a 1m long rod in the ground ?! Who can make this kind if hole ?!

 

 

 

 

[Crossy]

11 minutes ago, myjawe said:

Sorry but how can you put a 1m long rod in the ground ?! Who can make this kind if hole ?!

 

Your rod with have a pointed end, you bash it into the ground with a large hammer.

[bankruatsteve]

The 3-pole breaker that Lazada has listed as "earth leakage protection" and you show the photo is NOT (that I can see anyway).  It is also rated at 6000a which also seems strange as it indicates a 32a breaker.  Whatever. The others in the link appear to be RCD but the price makes me wonder.  Anyway, the place you want to put an RCD/RCBO is the main breaker sized for amps for your entire house.  IE: not just one device.

 

To ground your fridge, I suggest opening the panel to find the ground connection and coming out with a wire (length to be determined) from there.  IE: trying to make connection with the ground pin in the plug doesn't make any sense.  

 

If the wall is exterior, you can drill a hole through that for the ground wire to get to a "stake in the ground".  That would determine the length of cable you need.  Perhaps easier is to go up through the ceiling and connect to steel in the roof (also a good ground).

Edited July 11, 2019 by bankruatsteve

[Crossy]

What you need to depends upon the circumstances. Is your home rented? If so will the landlord let you make holes?

 

Task A. is to get a rod in the ground and connect the machine metalwork to the rod, take the wire out of the window to start with. That will remove any tingles you may be getting.

 

Then you can start thinking about a permanent solution, you can get simple stand-alone RCBOs for < 300 Baht in Global House a little box for it would cost another 50 Baht. One of these next to the machine feeding a separate outlet (you could run the ground to that outlet  too) is quick and easy requiring minimal holes. I'll post a photo later of one I did in the pst.

 

 

 

[crazykopite]

The average house in Thailand does not have an Earth that’s why a lot of people snap off the Earth pin on the plug don’t be surprised if you get a small shock of the wash machine ,microwave , 

[crazykopite]

3 hours ago, myjawe said:

 

Sorry but how can you put a 1m long rod in the ground ?! Who can make this kind if hole ?!

 

 

 

 

The rod is copper you buy it at home pro home mart on one end is a clip to attach your wire on the width of the rod is about the width of your small finger all you have to do is find an area outside that is soft to touch get yourself a lump hammer and a small piece of 2x2 wood place the wood over the copper pipe and use the lump hammer to knock the pipe into the ground , using the wood stops damaging the copper pipe leave 3 to 5 Cm sticking out the ground and connect your copper wire to it best to use copper wire.

[reargunnerph3]

An earth is not standard in Thailand, much too hard. Put RCD's on your board.

[MadMuhammad]

4 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

The 3-pole breaker that Lazada has listed as "earth leakage protection" and you show the photo is NOT (that I can see anyway).  It is also rated at 6000a which also seems strange as it indicates a 32a breaker.

6000A (6KA) relates to what the breaker will handle under fault conditions.

[johnarth]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Your rod with have a pointed end, you bash it into the ground with a large hammer.

As is done in Australia as all Thai wiring is twin the safety switch is the way to go 

[Captain 776]

Get an electrician to install a copper ground rod and run a wire from earthing rod to your breaker panel...........anything grounding back to panel will disharge into ground rod.

Home Pro sells the rods they are 3/8” .(375) x 2 meter

[bankruatsteve]

55 minutes ago, johnarth said:

As is done in Australia as all Thai wiring is twin the safety switch is the way to go 

Class-1 equipment needs ground/earth.  A "safety switch" is not a substitute. 

[bankruatsteve]

28 minutes ago, Captain 776 said:

Get an electrician to install a copper ground rod and run a wire from earthing rod to your breaker panel...........anything grounding back to panel will disharge into ground rod.

Home Pro sells the rods they are 3/8” .(375) x 2 meter

The OP doesn't have ground to his outlets.  Running ground to the CU will do nothing. There is nothing "grounding back to the panel". 

[myjawe]

2 hours ago, Arjen said:

What they sale here (and also in my European home country) is a copper cladded steel pin. The problem can be that the pin bends when you hit it. Because the bending you loose lot of enrgy when you are trying to drive the rod in the soil. But when you are able to hold it in the middle should be quite easy to enter the soil. A very easy way to drive these pins in the soil is to use a hammer drill, or even better a drill hammer. You only need the hammering effect. 

 

Arjen.

 

thank you to all. do you have any photo or know how to ask the copper cladded steel pin in Thai ?

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

9 minutes ago, myjawe said:

 

thank you to all. do you have any photo or know how to ask the copper cladded steel pin in Thai ?

 

 

I just grabbed the first photo I found. Any "Home" place will have. Ask for ground rod. 

[StevieAus]

5 hours ago, crazykopite said:

The average house in Thailand does not have an Earth that’s why a lot of people snap off the Earth pin on the plug don’t be surprised if you get a small shock of the wash machine ,microwave , 

Mine does as do all the houses owned by my friends

[StevieAus]

2 hours ago, johnarth said:

As is done in Australia as all Thai wiring is twin the safety switch is the way to go 

What do you mean by “ all Thai wiring is twin” my brother in law is a qualified licensed electrician I have seen plenty of his work including my house, motel and apartments plenty of green wires to be seen as per what I understand are the legal requirements.

[bankruatsteve]

Thai "code" has been in place for several years (10?).  It requires ground and RCD. Legality for that, I don't know. 

[MadMuhammad]

39 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Thai "code" has been in place for several years (10?).  It requires ground and RCD. Legality for that, I don't know. 

What the regs are and what is actually installed are worlds apart unfortunately, even by farang developed and marketed ‘high European standards’ condominiums

[White Christmas13]

17 hours ago, Gumballl said:

A nail will do. Just make sure the nail is about 3m long.

 

Or just use other type of metal rod (such as rebar).

3 m long nail?

[Gumballl]

Just now, White Christmas13 said:

3 m long nail?

That was a joke.

[luk AJ]

If I would be confronted with such problem, I would first try a copper rod, if not possible I would check the water pipe. If from metal, I would connect the chassis of the machine to the water supply pipe and use this as ground.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Moti24]

I've put a couple of grounding rods outside the house, mainly for the PC, TV and microwave, etc.  As already explained, Homepro sells them.  They certainly make a difference.

 

About 9 years ago, we rented a house in Chachoengsao.  It was a brand new house with 3 pin sockets.  I connected my PC through a surge protector, thinking all was OK.  I touched the computer case on the corner and felt a small electrical shock.  At first, I thought the surge protector may be faulty.  It wasn't that.  I removed the socket cover and found there was no earth cable there.  Not only that, the cable was only 1.5mm 2-core.  I checked the other sockets in the house and they were all the same.  The fusebox also had no earth cable connected.  

 

The moral of the story is, "Never trust a Thai electrician".  As the saying goes, "If you want a job doing, do it yourself".

[RocketDog]

20 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

The 3-pole breaker that Lazada has listed as "earth leakage protection" and you show the photo is NOT (that I can see anyway).  It is also rated at 6000a which also seems strange as it indicates a 32a breaker.  Whatever. The others in the link appear to be RCD but the price makes me wonder.  Anyway, the place you want to put an RCD/RCBO is the main breaker sized for amps for your entire house.  IE: not just one device.

 

To ground your fridge, I suggest opening the panel to find the ground connection and coming out with a wire (length to be determined) from there.  IE: trying to make connection with the ground pin in the plug doesn't make any sense.  

 

If the wall is exterior, you can drill a hole through that for the ground wire to get to a "stake in the ground".  That would determine the length of cable you need.  Perhaps easier is to go up through the ceiling and connect to steel in the roof (also a good ground).

Are you sure the metal roof support is a good ground? Kinda counterintuitive since ground is, well.... Ground. Many roofs are supported by concrete posts with no obvious path to ground. No easy way to check this either. As direct a path to ground as possible is best.