Non-O extension. Next Year Must Have Health Insurance

[ThaiBunny]

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

An insurance like that can´t be used when travelling abroad and settling down in a foreign country.

On the contrary a friend of mine has a pension and worldwide health cover through his American pension (from CalPERS) and has used it successfuly for the past several years

[Matzzon]

15 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

the insurance racket is one of the biggest mafias in the world, you sound like a consigliere

So, okey! Now an insurance is mafia too. Let´s just say that everybody that makes money out of something is mafia. If it´s not the person that is complaining that makes the money of course. Then it´s all above board. That´s is called beeing jealous of others success in life and business. There are many reasons for that, and most of the times it has to do with the ones complaining own level of success in life. Keep on complaining, all is good.

It´s well known that Las Vegas in Nevada once was started y the different Mafias in the country. After that the business industry covered up and "took over", wich is the same as making the mafia business legitimate. However, millions and millions of people love that kind of entertainment, and they not complain about loosing even if the house always wins in the long run. That´s how all business is built, and nothing you say can change that. Sure, call everything for mafia and corruption if you want. That doesn´t change the fact that you need both enjoyment in the form of Las Vegas in life as well as a good health cover in form of an insurance.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Matzzon

[from the home of CC]

3 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

So, okey! Now an insurance is mafia too. Let´s just say that everybody that makes money out of something is mafia. If it´s not the person that is complaining that makes the money of course. Then it´s all above board. That´s is called beeing jealous of others success in life and business. There are many reasons for that, and most of the times it has to do with the ones complainings own level of success in life. Keep on complaining, all is good.

No I think its those entities that seem to profit from you through fear or when you are at your lowest point tend to earn the term mafia. Big Pharma and the legal profession also come to mind.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Carolina Reaper said:

There is no such thing as outpatient only cover. 

My agent told me he would provide outpatient only cover.  

[marcusarelus]

31 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

So, okey! Now an insurance is mafia too. Let´s just say that everybody that makes money out of something is mafia. If it´s not the person that is complaining that makes the money of course. Then it´s all above board. That´s is called beeing jealous of others success in life and business. There are many reasons for that, and most of the times it has to do with the ones complaining own level of success in life. Keep on complaining, all is good.

It´s well known that Las Vegas in Nevada once was started y the different Mafias in the country. After that the business industry covered up and "took over", wich is the same as making the mafia business legitimate. However, millions and millions of people love that kind of entertainment, and they not complain about loosing even if the house always wins in the long run. That´s how all business is built, and nothing you say can change that. Sure, call everything for mafia and corruption if you want. That doesn´t change the fact that you need both enjoyment in the form of Las Vegas in life as well as a good health cover in form of an insurance.

Off topic nonsense.  Sure everyone should have insurance OK? 

 

This thread is about Thailand and mandatory health insurance for retirement extension. 

 

Why not open another thread where you can extol the values of the insurance industry? 

[holy cow cm]

If it does happen then they better have a good plan in place like they suggested charging tourists a fee for medical coverage. I would be totally fine paying the immigration an additional 10k for coverage that I will never use.

[Matzzon]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Off topic nonsense.  Sure everyone should have insurance OK? 

 

This thread is about Thailand and mandatory health insurance for retirement extension. 

 

Why not open another thread where you can extol the values of the insurance industry? 

Then go to the comment I quoted and refer to nonsense, instead of taking my comment out of context just because it suits you. For some people it´s just necessary to make a comparision so they get up their eyes for the difference between mafia and business, which actually isn´t such a big difference if you just look at the economics and not the methods.

 

I started by stating my opinion which is that a health insurance for foreigners residing in this country on marriage, business or retirement insurance should have been in effect 20-30 years ago. And yes, my opinion is that it should be mandatory for all, and that it should be grandfathered or exclude the retirement extension.

So, now you can just read, and there was no need to open a new thread.

[Matzzon]

33 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

No I think its those entities that seem to profit from you through fear or when you are at your lowest point tend to earn the term mafia. Big Pharma and the legal profession also come to mind.

Ok, so basically you are saying that you look at everything that you not consider affordable as mafia. I was speaking about the need of insurance for everybody (the great mass and nobody standing outside) that resides in a foreign country without the guaranteed cover of protection.

[from the home of CC]

5 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Ok, so basically you are saying that you look at everything that you not consider affordable as mafia. I was speaking about the need of insurance for everybody (the great mass and nobody standing outside) that resides in a foreign country without the guaranteed cover of protection.

No, speaking more to the fear mongering that goes on to drive profits in these industries. Fortunately, I can afford all three but require none. And I was speaking to the fact that 'insurance' is a racket, a sophisticated scam based on fear. Otherwise the industry would just investigate fraudulent claims rather than the unethical practice of looking for ways on not honoring their coverage, actually hiring folks to deprive you of what you paid for. Sorry, I consider insurance agents no better than pimps.

[holy cow cm]

50 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

So, okey! Now an insurance is mafia too. Let´s just say that everybody that makes money out of something is mafia. If it´s not the person that is complaining that makes the money of course. Then it´s all above board. That´s is called beeing jealous of others success in life and business. There are many reasons for that, and most of the times it has to do with the ones complaining own level of success in life. Keep on complaining, all is good.

It´s well known that Las Vegas in Nevada once was started y the different Mafias in the country. After that the business industry covered up and "took over", wich is the same as making the mafia business legitimate. However, millions and millions of people love that kind of entertainment, and they not complain about loosing even if the house always wins in the long run. That´s how all business is built, and nothing you say can change that. Sure, call everything for mafia and corruption if you want. That doesn´t change the fact that you need both enjoyment in the form of Las Vegas in life as well as a good health cover in form of an insurance.

You sure have a lot to say being a newbie. I don't think it is the actual insurance subject that bothers people. It is the high price and unusable health plans (if you want to keep it and not be cancelled), and the huge worry that if you are old you are going to get gouged or just plainly can't fit it into your budget because of how ridiculously expensive it is. So in many cases it is just like the insurance companies acting like a mafia that always have you by the b*lls. If they had an idea to charge every long time staying foreigner 10k or so to be covered then it would in actuality be no big deal, and then everyone is covered. But I just don't see them being that kind or fair to us.

[fishtank]

24 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

This thread is about Thailand and mandatory health insurance for retirement extension. 

 

 

This thread is about a nonsense rumour with no truth in it.

There is no mandatory health insurance for retirement extensions.

And hopefully there never will be.

[Thaidream]

23 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

No I think its those entities that seem to profit from you through fear or when you are at your lowest point tend to earn the term mafia. Big Pharma and the legal profession also come to mind.

Agree completely-   Healthcare is a human right and not a commodity to be utilized by Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies or For Profit Hospital to make money from. The private health insurance industry and Big Pharma have used illness and suffering to make billions  on.  In addition= the relationship between for profit hospitals and insurance is filled with massive overcharging and a complete lack of  anything resembling the Hippocratic Oath.

 

The worst offender in the World is the USA= which has the highest medical care costs in the World and not the best provision of it. Unfortunately, Thailand is following this model with its  private medical system that is unaffordable to the average Thai.  However, Thailand does have  Government Hospitals which at least allows a low cost alternative to private healthcare and also a Government Pharmaceutical industry which provides low cost medicine to the public.

 

The correct solution to long stayer foreigners  and medical coverage would be reasonable private insurance if the person so desired or a buy in to the Thai Social Security scheme. Both schemes rely on a pool of premiums to provide the money to allow patients coverage. 

 

The problem is that private  medical facilities and private insurance are interested only in profits and use  pre existing conditions and aging as excuses to  either deny coverage or raise premiums to absurd levels- their only goal to make as much money as possible.

 

The Thai Government  now has the ability to come up with an affordable scheme that would recognize Healthcare as a human right and provide universal healthcare by allowing the buy in to the Government scheme which will raise revenue for the scheme which is  underfunded.  Not only would this take care of the  foreigner healthcare situation but would help the average Thai by placing more funding into the Govern system which can then expand services to the Thai population.

 

[Mike Teavee]

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

We never talked about the premiums compared to the value of the different insurances. Why are you shifting the focus, to maybe give you a slightly better chance to come out of the discussion with your head up? Residing in a foreign country without protection is foolish and irresponsible. That´s a fact.

Regarding the value, and that the premium is 25% of the coverage, is probably in most cases BS talk. That might be if a person is over 70 years old, and have choosen to live old age life without a health insurance for too many years. That was a foolish choice to get away from a necessary thing, that the person now have to pay dealy for in a later stage in life. If you take a general and average person at the age of 45-50, which is the age you at the latest should start plan for your retirement, and security, for the later good years in life. Let´s say 50. Then the premium would be about 7-9% of the total inpatient coverage on a yearly basis. That still means, a person that are forseeing and plan their life ahead is going to get a good value insurance. People that tries to run from all things they need, because they cry averytime a dollar is spent, is going to stand with a fan full of shit.

I just hope there is not to many of that kind out there, because I would like to cling to my trust in the evolution of mankind a little bit longer.

So you're suggesting that anybody planning for retirement in Thailand should at the age of 45-50 & whilst living in their own or another country purchase an approved Thai insurance policy so when it comes time to retirement they will have built up some kind of loyalty discount with the provider?

 

The reality is that your years of purchasing insurance before moving to Thailand will count for nothing if Immigration only accept polices approved by the Ministry of Health (can you really imagine Immigration being able to evaluate whether an insurance policy from <<<insert name of country>>> written in <<< insert language>>> meets the requirements set-out).

 

I agree that having insurance is a necessity when not covered for health care in some other way but don't see why somebody in the UK for example would take it out just so their future Thai premiums will be lower 

 

 

[HampiK]

47 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

My agent told me he would provide outpatient only cover.  

You sure you are not mixed up Inpatient with outpatient.

As I would make sense to have Inpatient without Outpatient.

 

Actually I never heard of an Insurance only give Outpatient cover without Inpatient!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 hours ago, wimpy said:

When this was first proposed for OA visa holders, most of the companies I looked at excluded new policies for people over 70. What is my friend, that is over 70 and in poor health going to do? His whole life and his family are here.

 

Does anyone actually think either Immigration or the broader government here gives one whit about those kinds of issues?  They don't.

[Matzzon]

2 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

You sure have a lot to say being a newbie. I don't think it is the actual insurance subject that bothers people. It is the high price and unusable health plans (if you want to keep it and not be cancelled), and the huge worry that if you are old you are going to get gouged or just plainly can't fit it into your budget because of how ridiculously expensive it is. So in many cases it is just like the insurance companies acting like a mafia that always have you by the b*lls. If they had an idea to charge every long time staying foreigner 10k or so to be covered then it would in actuality be no big deal, and then everyone is covered. But I just don't see them being that kind or fair to us.

Ok, for start . Yes, I have a lot to say. Newbie? I guess to this forum and in your eyes maybe, but Thailand has known me over 20 years. You can almost say, Holy Cow! That´s much! ???? (Sorry, couldn´t resist).

What country in the world would offer a system like you mention in the text above? The answer: no country. Just because you are stating that the insurance companies are acting like mafia, then we will look at health insurance in major countries regarding the same age, around 65-75 years old.

The average premuim per month for unsubsidized health insurance in USA is about 180 USD. That would be over 2 000 USD per year. 

The average premuim per year for health insurance in UK is about 1 435 GBP.

 

The average premuim per year for health insurance in Australia is about 2 850 AUD.

 

After that we should consider this as an average number, which will result in a minumum 170% of the price at the age group we are targeting, 65-75. When I only put on 70%, I am actually very kind. That would be 3400 USD for an example. Here we are talking about roughly 115 000 baht, which also is the facts in Thailand.

I do not see any other countries feeling the need to be kind and fair like you wish to express it. Why in the world would Thailand be that about a thing that everybody automatically should know they need as soon as they set down in a foreign country? Just because you think its the fair and kind way that you want it to be done?

[Matzzon]

17 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

So you're suggesting that anybody planning for retirement in Thailand should at the age of 45-50 & whilst living in their own or another country purchase an approved Thai insurance policy so when it comes time to retirement they will have built up some kind of loyalty discount with the provider?

 

The reality is that your years of purchasing insurance before moving to Thailand will count for nothing if Immigration only accept polices approved by the Ministry of Health (can you really imagine Immigration being able to evaluate whether an insurance policy from <<<insert name of country>>> written in <<< insert language>>> meets the requirements set-out).

 

I agree that having insurance is a necessity when not covered for health care in some other way but don't see why somebody in the UK for example would take it out just so their future Thai premiums will be lower 

 

 

I am sure most insurances with guaranteed international coverage will be accepted. As for example a choice, which would be a very good choice for a person that plans to settle abroad at a later stage in life. That as well as the insurance cover you on trips, holidays and mostly in your home country too if necessary.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Matzzon

[smedly]

5 hours ago, Matzzon said:

That can not be compared to an insurance, due to that you suddenly can change your mind on what to use the money for. Let´s say a family member have an emergency. You have money. Wouldn´t you save their life if you had the possibility? And that is only 1 example. That´s why your idea fails, and can not be considered like an option of security for a govenment in the country you chose to reside in.

His idea doesn't fail - you are going on about having responsibility - people who decide to have money for emergencies life a health issue are being responsible and you are blowing it out **** ***

[marcusarelus]

28 minutes ago, HampiK said:

You sure you are not mixed up Inpatient with outpatient.

As I would make sense to have Inpatient without Outpatient.

 

Actually I never heard of an Insurance only give Outpatient cover without Inpatient!

Call and ask.  It's the agent that Sheryl recommended.  

[marcusarelus]

14 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I am sure most insurances with guaranteed international coverage will be accepted.

Why would you think that?  Have you ever been to or lived in Thailand?

[beachproperty]

16 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

The average premuim per month for unsubsidized health insurance in USA is about 180 USD. That would be over 2 000 USD per year. 

The average premuim per year for health insurance in UK is about 1 435 GBP.

 

The average premuim per year for health insurance in Australia is about 2 850 AUD.

 

 

The average cost of health insurance is $477 per month in the USA. So I can guess that your other figures are also grossly underestimated with regard to health insurance in the UK or AUD.

 

I am 66 and uninsured for the last 14 years.  In essence I have saved at least $80,000 dollars .
 

[ThaiBunny]

7 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

So I can guess that your other figures are also grossly underestimated with regard to health insurance in the UK or AUD.

Health insurance is an optional extra in both those countries as each has (horror of horrors ????) a socialised medicine system paid for out of taxes

[Matzzon]

13 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

The average cost of health insurance is $477 per month in the USA. So I can guess that your other figures are also grossly underestimated with regard to health insurance in the UK or AUD.

 

I am 66 and uninsured for the last 14 years.  In essence I have saved at least $80,000 dollars .
 

No its not. Its the US cost for insurance that is grossly overestimated.

Regarding you uninsured time. Congratulations, now you will have to pay double. So, the money you saved will disappear. Luckily you have not been neding helth insurance before, then the money would already have been disappearing.

This is exactly what I am talking about. You try to save on something stupid and taking a risk at the same time, when you at the end, will end up with paying the same anyway. Great you have lost 14 years of insurance, and finally have to pay for all anyway. How does that sound?

[Matzzon]

21 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Why would you think that?  Have you ever been to or lived in Thailand?

Yes, for more than the last 20 years. What about you?

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, for more than the last 20 years. What about you?

1968 US Army.  

[Matzzon]

26 minutes ago, smedly said:

His idea doesn't fail - you are going on about having responsibility - people who decide to have money for emergencies life a health issue are being responsible and you are blowing it out **** ***

Nope, that the wrong way of thinking. It´s just to understand. Your savings is not a security for you paying your hospital bill in Thailand.
 

Let´s go back to the facts. How many in this forum have been living here for long time, and now complaining about the mandatory need for a health insurance. My guess would be, very many. That based on the total chaos the emerges everytime this factor is mentioned in this forum. The first thing a person that settles down in a foreign country look out for, is a cover, security and and in this case an insurance to cover health for the individual and his family. Everything else is starting in the wrong end.

Now that so many already started in the wrong end, and refuse to accept that the society is implementing new rules. Yep, then it´s time to complain. Scary enough this is many of the posters and members here that complain about all the Thais and they are no martue, have alack of common sense and are irresponsible. Here they have been very irrelsponsible themselfs, but still refuse to accept that. Before voicing things like that, it´s always best to clean up ones own doortep first. It might land a shoe that don´t fit. Cheers to more nag and complaining.

Was that a good blowout? Actually its only my opinion which is the way of a forum. To voice ones opinion.

[Matzzon]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

1968 US Army.  

Wow! Living here since, or did you go back home for a while before settling down?

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Wow! Living here since, or did you go back home for a while before settling down?

Back home, vacation here and then back to retire in 2005.  I'm reading this thread to gain some knowledge about the requirements for Insurance Retirement Extensions.  Not to listen to lectures on Insurance money management.  I wish you would stop the off topic stuff and discuss the topic which is, "Non-O extension. Next Year Must Have Health Insurance."

Edited July 12, 2019 by marcusarelus

[beachproperty]

16 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

 How does that sound?

like I'm talking to an idiot!????

[holy cow cm]

48 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

The average premuim per month for unsubsidized health insurance in USA is about 180 USD. That would be over 2 000 USD per year. 

If I was in the US I would be covered one way or the other and those high prices are and should be for just that, the USA. 

48 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

What country in the world would offer a system like you mention in the text above? The answer: no country.

Hospital and health care is tons cheaper here more than any western country. Probably because if you tried to sue you would never get anywhere and then would be counter sued for lible. So why wouldn't Thailand come up with a system like I stated for basic coverage as they would still tend to make loads of money. In a sense it is still 3rd world but better said a developing nation in many ways. An operation in the states would cost you just say $50k and here 150kbaht. Just  the facts as they are. So again why wouldn't they implement something like the system I mentioned as they have already suggested taking a pittance of a fee from tourists in order to have all of them covered. Almost sounds like you were an insurance salesman in your past life and finding every way to guard and protect why it should be high cost as a golden business and everyone needs to have it or should not be here..

 

So based on the surgery and care cost as example I gave you from US compared to Thailand, yes, why wouldn't they derive a real non gouging system based on just say 10k or even 15k per year having limitations? Don't try to keep putting Thailand in the upper echelon of health care costs when in most ways the midline hospitals besides the way too high priced ones like BGH or Bumrungrad, etc are very good and 75% cheaper than western ones. So, for me I will be ok for now while in my mid - later 50's, but for many of older folk retiree it is a death march order.

 

By saying Holy Cow! you insulted my religion. Just kidding! it is exactly how you said it! : )