2 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

My belief is that the huge influx of Indians is going to cause the downfall of Pattaya as a popular resort. No civilized westerner will want to come here ????

Your belief? Why? Pattaya will change and adapt to suit whatever tourists need. 

I haven't seen a real lot of civilised westerners to be honest around the tourist traps.  Mostly drunken idiots or old blokes nursing a beer for four hours after they are too knackered chasing the balloon freebies. 

They move on,  someone takes their place.  Happens all over the world with tourism. 

Don't lose any sleep over it. 

Just now, moto77 said:

They don't have the money to order one pizza each, sorry to say. This is the problem. 

I would disagree , they do . But they would prefer torn shirt for 20 baht than one in pristine condition for 30

2 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

My belief is that the huge influx of Indians is going to cause the downfall of Pattaya as a popular resort. No civilized westerner will want to come here ????

It fell several years ago; where were you? 
They're just finally getting around to burying it. 

4 hours ago, Henrik Andersen said:

Thailand still don't get it 

Nobody wants Indian Russian and Chinese 

You need try get us Europeans back 

Easier visa will be a good start 

you are right but they dont see it ? we are the ones who keep them afloat for sure .

8 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

I must say that if the front and second row of people in this photo are representative of Pattaya's Indian community, they appear to be affable, well-groomed, well-dressed, hard-working, and likeable people, totally undeserving of the constant bashing you read on this forum.

Those are Thai-India been here a long time. Thai-India own Nana Plaza, my tailor owns a hotel in Bangkok, hard working people.

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

10-11 years ago if you sat in a beer bar on Walking Street and watched the endless stream of people going by, you'd have noticed that probably 95(+) % of the tourists were "white" (Euro, Scandinavian, Canadian, Australian American, ect). Seeing an Indian or Arab was a rare thing (outside of the "Arab quarter" at least) and an Asian tour group ? Wow - people would stop and stare because it wasn't something you saw very often.

The bars and go-gos would be packed. The owners (and staff) would be giddy with about the money they were making.

 

Most of my Thai friends at the time owned various businesses - restaurants, bars, hotels. One had a small gold shop. One had a motorcycle shop.

All of them had a Harley (which is how we got to know each other). We'd ride all over the city to different places and often end up parking outside a go-go bar owned by one of the guys. Then we'd go up and down Walking Street visiting different bars/go-gos until the wee hours of the morning.
Every week or so we'd make a trip somewhere (Koh Chang or Rayong or to some Bike Week event upcountry).

There was a distinct "trickle down" effect from all that business. The businesses were making money, the owners were making money, the staff were making money and the businesses that those people frequented were making money, from noodle shops to karaoke bars to motorcycle shops and of course, gold shops.

But then the "demographic" started to change. TAT (I presume) started aiming their promotions at Russia more than Europe/N America and when the Russians stopped coming, they started going after the Indians and Chinese.

All they were looking for was an increase in number of "arrivals" - regardless of whether or not those "arrivals" were actually spending anything. They soon started finding out what a "zero dollar" tourist was (one who pays for their trip back home and literally doesn't spend a penny in the country they are visiting). 

So they saw an increase in the number of arrivals - but never noticed that all those shop/bar/hotel/restaurant owners were complaining that they were losing business big time, as those new arrivals (mostly from China and India) were not-spending-money !

Most of my friends ended up selling off their Harleys (the luxury items are the first to go) and some even ended up selling their businesses as they just weren't making money anymore. Tons of people on the street - walking past half empty (or worse) bars, restaurants and go-gos. Where one motorcycle club had 20+ business owners with Harleys, now I think there are 3 remaining.

Replacing 2 caucasian tourists that might spend 2,000 a night each on food, drink and "fun" with 6-8 people that might spend a total of 200 a night (or less) isn't going to help the economy. 
4 caucasian tourists renting hotel rooms for 1,000/night each or 4(+) people sharing one room for the same price ? Which sounds better to the business owner I wonder ?

I've sat in bars and go-gos that had Indian customers and spent more in an hour than the Indians did all night (at that place at least). I watched one guy sit in a go-go for nearly 2 hours and when he finally left (after none of the girls would sit with him anymore) his small glass of draft beer was still half full (but no doubt very warm and flat by then). That was the only drink he'd bought the whole time. Meanwhile my bill was something like 1,700 in the same period.

Gee - I wonder who the bar owners would prefer as customers ? There is a very good reason why so many "club's" charge an admittance (or "membership") fee before letting any Indians in. It is because that is the only way they will make any money off of them as they will probably only buy a single drink (one drink - even if there are 3-4 of them) and nurse that for 2 hours.
I was sitting next to the owner of a beer bar on Walking Street when a group of 6 Indians stopped in. One spoke to a waitress who directed him to the owner. The guy came over and said that because he'd brought a group of 5 with him, maybe they could get a discount on the draft beer. (I think the cheapest beer was something like 60 baht a glass at the time). He was trying to barter it down to 50 baht - but they only wanted 2 glasses !

Between the 6 of them !

The owner said no as he already had the cheapest price on the street, so they all left to go try somewhere else !

 

I've watched tour groups of Chinese go into a go-go bar. Each person had a choice of either a beer or a coke (as a part of the tour package). They'd sit for an hour then leave - without spending a penny or giving a single tip or anything. I spent more in the one hour than the entire group of 30+ tourists and I wasn't even trying !

Increasing the numbers of people that aren't spending money is not going to help anyone. It may make the airport numbers look good but it's not helping the economy at all.

(And yes, I have visited India a couple times - short trips though. I also spent 10 years working with a lot of Indians (and Nepalese) in Afghanistan. Most of them were nice enough but if they thought they could get away with **** they'd try it in the blink of an eye.)

If TAT started targeting their promotions back to the "caucasian" countries, they might see a drop in the numbers of arrivals (as fewer Chinese/Indians arrive) but would probably see a large boost in the tourist spending portion of the economy. The trickle down effect of that reaches all the way into the darkest corners of Isaan as most of you no doubt know already !  ????

Will they ever go back to trying to lure the "rich(er)" Westerners back while reducing the numbers of "cheap charlies" they are currently targeting ? Probably not for years to come. You'd need a whole new generation of people in charge that realize that quantity doesn't mean better than quality (when it comes to the spending habits of tourists at least - hard to say that any of them are "quality" in any way) !

But of course, those "richer" Westerners also come with a lot of baggage, much of which Thailand wants to keep out. However, they (the "authorities") probably don't want to admit that the hordes of Chinese/Indian tourists they are bringing in also come with a lot of baggage. I've met a few and these days I try to stay as far away from them as I can.

 

Perhaps, just perhaps,  the plan for Thailand is to reduce reliance on sex tourism, I.e. go go bars as any rational person would agree that it is not healthy for the well being of the female population generally. Or dare I say it for the reputation of the country. Don't start the only 5 % nonsense that prostitution is for farang and the rest is indigenous. That is irrelevant in the big picture.  I'm not saying it is right or wrong it is just the way it is right now and sorry for your bar owning mates. 

Perhaps they should have put some baht aside for the lean times. 

And a Harley is not a luxury.  It is a necessity as far as I'm concerned. 

555

25 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Just read a lot of the comments in this thread, and then you will be educated automatically.

So, welcome to the new style on Thai Visa. Appearently it´s India-bashing-time.

 

This is a cultural problem within India. It's not really about Indians--I think people tend to say Indians, when they really mean "people from India." Most of the Thais of Indian descent are super polite, great people and some of them complain about the Indians from India too--in the same way Hong Kong people complain about Mainland Chinese. It's not the race, it's the culture. 

Be careful what you wish for, Thailand. 

Looks like Thai Visa is getting just as desperate with click bait Threads for the The racist .The first Remark and 25 likes so far Amazing!!!!

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2 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Perhaps, just perhaps,  the plan for Thailand is to reduce reliance on sex tourism, I.e. go go bars as any rational person would agree that it is not healthy for the well being of the female population generally. Or dare I say it for the reputation of the country. Don't start the only 5 % nonsense that prostitution is for farang and the rest is indigenous. That is irrelevant in the big picture.  I'm not saying it is right or wrong it is just the way it is right now and sorry for your bar owning mates. 

Perhaps they should have put some baht aside for the lean times. 

And a Harley is not a luxury.  It is a necessity as far as I'm concerned. 

555

With 30%-50% of the (younger) population using crystal meth regularly, I don't think there's many caring about the general health of the population, female or otherwise.

Chinese middle class 400 million India 150 million.  Don't hold your breath Thailand.  

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

With 30%-50% of the (younger) population using crystal meth regularly, I don't think there's many caring about the general health of the population, female or otherwise.

Not surprising. Their yellow shirt parents sold their future down the river. The new government is more corrupt--and twice as inept--as the Shin's ever thought of being, and with them changing the Constitution, have probably installed themselves permanently. The place is a basket case and the glory days are never coming back. 

With the Russians Chinese and Indians walking street is history. You couldn't possibly get a more cheap and ugly trifecta

OK.....and next Year? Have TAT ever hear about sustainability? They think, non India Tourists are attract for this "Mumbai at Pattaya"?

4 minutes ago, madmen said:

With the Russians Chinese and Indians walking street is history. You couldn't possibly get a more cheap and ugly trifecta

Oh yes you could. Add in North Africans to make it perfect????

India? Hmm, I don't think so. Even if you put 100 Indians into a beer bar for the evening, the owner probably wouldn't cover costs. Indians aren't big on beer or bar fines. And even when they do pay the bar fine they are shocked to realise that girl expects to be paid as well.

 

So sorry Thailand. You've brought this on yourself. Girls, beer and raucous loud music into the small hours is it. Chinese, Indians, Arabs big deal, they don't drink beer. Westerners do and they love Thai girls. Like it or not, you need us, not the other way around. So grow up, get over your stupid racist tantrums and let's get back to business.

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

So are they saying the solution to their woes is less discerning tourists?

Discerning like the western sex tourist two week millionaires? 

Not knocking them..... Just asking.... Done it myself but I'm not particularly discerning and do have standards, all be they low. 

I think we all need to congratulate TAT. Discovered a huge problem with tourism yesterday, quick thinking process, quick fix and problem solved within 24 hours... an example to follow and share as best practices...Very impressive

1 hour ago, tcp7 said:

Last night 4 indians sharing 1 pizza at my restaurant, after they were done I walked up to them and told who appeared to be the leader of the pack, "Next time if you come with your 4 friends, order 4 pizzas, I'll be inclined to give you a small rebate if you actually order 4 pizzas", the guy didn't even reply to me in proper english but rather made it clear from the looks in his eyes that they weren't going to change their "practices" of 1 pizza shared by 4 guys, 1 bottle shared by 4 guys, 1 lady shared by 4 guys.

 

I hope I don't get banned for saying this but... Indians are really the worst <deleted> you can expect as customers, they're just terrible people, they have no place in Thailand, they'll just drag Pattaya further down the drain (who would've thought it was even possible?).

Who cares if one person eats one pizza or four people eat one pizza.  Eat then leave.... It's all about turnover as any resterantuer will tell you. 

21 minutes ago, juice777 said:

Looks like Thai Visa is getting just as desperate with click bait Threads for the The racist .The first Remark and 25 likes so far Amazing!!!!

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

Yep, no moderation in order with the forum rules. That is only enforced sometimes, for specific chosen things.

47 minutes ago, Parker2100 said:

They have already indicated that they do not want more Westerners.  Do they think Indians and West Africans have more money?

 

I will put 1 American with a credit card against 5 Indian or Africans any day of the week!

Who are they,  and how have they indicated they don't want any more westerners? 

Facts not bar stool OR TVF rumours.

5 hours ago, Henrik Andersen said:

Thailand still don't get it 

Nobody wants Indian Russian and Chinese 

Why?

Who is “nobody”?

We happy if Indian Russian And Chinese want to come. Why not?

5 hours ago, Henrik Andersen said:

You need try get us Europeans back 

Easier visa will be a good start 

 

Do you know that most Thai people don’t like to look at Grandpa Fatty Farang with the Issan teenage prostitute in the plaza, in the restaurant, in the street. Yuk.

 

The Russian bring the family, the Chinese come with the big group and take the tours and shopping a lot.

Most European ok, if family, the couple come relax at the beach, shopping.

But the sex tourist make the other tourist feel uncomfortable. Most the sex tourist is European.

 

Everyone country welcome if polite. 

Only one who like the sex tourist is sex worker and there boss.

 

Easy for European to get holiday visa.

 

15 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Discerning like the western sex tourist two week millionaires? 

Not knocking them..... Just asking.... Done it myself but I'm not particularly discerning and do have standards, all be they low. 

Have you been to India? 

I certainly required better standards than I saw there. I wouldn't share a room with other men for a start.

2 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Is that because they are scared that it may be their daughter?

They won’t be grizzling when she sends the parents Grandpa Fatty Arbuckles  cash though. 

Guys I do understand your frustration with Indians. I am an Indian and have faced similar situations like these in India as well. Its not new. Problem is the education levels and the poverty levels in India. You see more tourists in Pattaya/Thailand because India is opening up... as the economy is growing.. More flights, connectivity etc. Because of this thialand has become the nearest and most affordable destination for many Indians who are even probably flying for the first time. Not everyone has seen outside world.

It will take few years for Indians to learn things but they will get there. Imagine westerners like they were 30 years back... Yes India is like that today but it's not bad. People don't generally have bad intentions. Ofcourse having said that you always find bad people everywhere.

Also when it comes to spending they don't care. It's just that you don't see the wealthy Indians in Pattaya. Even if they come they must be in some secluded islands or places like Samui.

You like it or not but slowly India, China are becoming new developed world. We can't hide that fact...things will improve but will take time.

Just my 2 cents...

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4 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Is that because they are scared that it may be their daughter?

Just when I though this TVF couldn't get any lower father FS comes in with the boot to the head.  Been here too long old mate? 

I thought it was quite nice to see a positive side of the culture.

Cheers!

Hmm, what will the Russians do to top it? The Chinese?

 

6 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Is that because they are scared that it may be their daughter?

No

Are people really sure that the 'one-can-of-coke-with-five-straws is a 'cheap charlie' thing? I've never observed this behavior before in my entire life, but if I saw five guys rubbing noses together while drinking from separate straws from the same can of coke, my first inclination would be to guess that they were gay, not necessarily being cheap.

 

3 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Why?

Who is “nobody”?

We happy if Indian Russian And Chinese want to come. Why not?

 

Do you know that most Thai people don’t like to look at Grandpa Fatty Farang with the Issan teenage prostitute in the plaza, in the restaurant, in the street. Yuk.

 

The Russian bring the family, the Chinese come with the big group and take the tours and shopping a lot.

Most European ok, if family, the couple come relax at the beach, shopping.

But the sex tourist make the other tourist feel uncomfortable. Most the sex tourist is European.

 

Everyone country welcome if polite. 

Only one who like the sex tourist is sex worker and there boss.

 

Easy for European to get holiday visa.

 

"Thai's don't like to look at Grandpa Fatty Farang with the Issan teenage prostitute"

 

It seems that you're okay with discriminating against grandparents, fat people, Farangs and young women from Issan. My friend, if you can tear your eyes away from the people that you love to hate, you may actually see that it's mainly Thai men going with the underage girls. We Farangs are way too smart to get caught with a teenager because your corrupt police, while ignoring their Thai mates breaking the law, would pounce on us in an instant in the hopes of extracting a bribe.

 

And you go on to say that most sex tourists are European. My my, you are a paragon of virtue...NOT!! A hint of vile racism in your post old boy.

3 minutes ago, Bugsy777 said:

 old boy.

Isn't Yinn a female?