Thai tourism in trouble: And competitor Vietnam is "scary" for Pattaya

[Chriss77]

I fully agree.

My wife is from Isaan, i love Thailand and i travel there regularly, but i will be going elsewhere after the MotoGP in Oct.

It is to expensive, prices are on Par with Australia. 

Having said that, touristy Thailand is the expensive part. Our village is still relatively cheap.

[malibukid]

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I don't think they want expats because of the rising middle class in China and India. 

oh the irony, who created the Chinese middle class?

[Percy P]

4 hours ago, Metapod said:

Exchange rate is bad, costs are going up, visas are getting a lot harder to get, and more competitive alternatives are arising.

 

it isn't really surprising stuff. Thailand ain't that cheap anymore. Aussie dollar is like 21.7 thb these days. A lot of things are cheaper back in Aus now,

Thai prices in Baht are still cheap . It's other issue they make it expensive like a retires having to deposit  800,000 B in the Thai Bank with very little return. The Government is using it as foreign capital reserve which is keeping its head above water. The Baat will lose its value with a drop in tourists.

[Thaidream]

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

or backpackers maybe but not for us retired folks.  Nothing about immigration has changed for me in 15 years.  I brought my money over 15 years ago so no change in money.  I'm not alone.  Many have done the same thing. 

It may not have changed for you- but it has changed for mostly everyone else.

 

Not many people will put 800K in a Thai Bank and then leave it there for 5 months so the bank can use it at their discretion and then leave 400K permanently .  The whole purpose of the money in the bank is to use if for one's living expenses not to enrich the banking industry.

 

Rhis is the 21at Century where people do not carry much cash but rely on ATM machines or Credit Cards and most people want to keep their money in their own country where it is covered by deposit insurance and not in a 3rd World Banking system where there is poor security and where in the past the whole economic system  was corrupted.

 

Throw in an Insurance requirement for O-A Visas where the insurance has to be from only Thai Companies with little coverage for high premiums- retirees will vote with their feet.   Yhere are too many other countries that allow retirees in without onerous regulations and actually provide secure long stay possibilities.  Even if one is married to a Thai- the best one can get is a one year extension when in fact a Thai spouse who emigrates to  the US or UK or others gets perrmanent residence with no reporting and is elibilbe for all programs.

 

Thailand's extreme Xenophobia;  poor service profile; increasing cost of living coupled with a currency scheme that is manipulate has turned off a huge number of people. 

 

In the age of Social Media- sening Immigration police to an internatonal airport to seek out overestayers; taxi drivers weilding machetes and attacking tourist; street vendors stabbing customers tells potential retirees that something is not normal about the place.  

 

Retirees want long term stability and  a relaxing atmosphere as they age and tourists want to see something exotic and different and might want a glass of reasonably priced wine for dinner.  None of this is found here at the moment.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Pete Webb said:

Clearly, people are leaving it (Thailand).

How many? 

[MartinKal]

4 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

wait a minute..

 

if visitors from china, europe, oceania and the middle east are down but tourism is still up where are the new tourists coming from?

 

russia, india? they dont have the numbers to offset europe never mind china, so are they counting surrounding countries too?

 

this cannot be good either way (well for thailand, good for me :D)

 

 

The number are still up, but the rate of increase is slowing.

 

I am in Pattaya and that is plainly not true. The numbers are down in absolute terms and the estimate puts that at 30% down on last year's figures.

[Scott3000]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I don't think they want expats because of the rising middle class in China and India. 

Does it matter what the reason is?

 

For years, I felt at home as an expat in Thailand.

 

Then I no longer felt at home, so I left. 

 

Even if I return to Thailand -- walking down the street today, I felt the odds were 50/50 that I'd return -- I think it more likely that I would go there much less frequently, and stay for a much shorter period. Meanwhile, if I feel good someplace else, I may stay there longer term, in which case Thailand would fall by the wayside for me.

 

China built its "great firewall", which the Chinese are proud of. Fair enough. I spend a lot of time on the internet, so China is out for me, even though I've still got 7 years left on my visa.

 

Thailand has done what it has done, and that has people taking a hard look at alternatives, and acting on them. I know several expats in Chiang Mai who've already bolted for Cambodia and other places. I've had some medical issues, otherwise I'd have left before Chinese New Year -- a terrible time to be in Chiang Mai, not to mention what comes directly after Chinese New Year.

 

Reckless driving - year round pollution of air, land, and water - immigration.

 

I get it. Like it or not, I have to do something. Can't keep waiting for things to get better.

[Bastos60]

5 hours ago, Metapod said:

Exchange rate is bad, costs are going up, visas are getting a lot harder to get, and more competitive alternatives are arising.

 

it isn't really surprising stuff. Thailand ain't that cheap anymore. Aussie dollar is like 21.7 thb these days. A lot of things are cheaper back in Aus now,

True, I used to buy all my brand clothes in Pattaya back in the day, now they are cheaper when I buy at home.

[d2b2]

2 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

Well the people who are in charge cannot say they have not been warned, enough comments have been made and repeated several times but it seems to no avail, are they waiting for the final horse to find the exit before closing the gate and making some sensible adjustments to the current policy....????

The powers that be, most certainly, never read Thai Visa Forum

[phantomfiddler]

And still the immigration officials are openly hostile at the airport, we are made to feel unwelcome ????

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

It may not have changed for you- but it has changed for mostly everyone else.

 

Not many people will put 800K in a Thai Bank and then leave it there for 5 months so the bank can use it at their discretion and then leave 400K permanently .  The whole purpose of the money in the bank is to use if for one's living expenses not to enrich the banking industry.

 

Retirees want long term stability

Everyone I know did, years ago.  You mention retirees want long term stability - that equals money in the bank. 

 

Do retirees have money in the bank at home where they live?  Of course they do. So, when they move to Thailand they put a sizeable chunk of money in a dependable Thai bank.  Same as home because Thailand is now home. 

 

The whole purpose of money in the bank is stability and security and interest.  I get 2% same as I'd get at home.  I pay the bank a commission same as in America to keep my money safe. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Beggar]

16 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I've been on a long stay visa for 15 years.  Clearly different than a 15 or 30 day tourist permission to stay. 

They can refuse to extend your visa at any time. I have been living here for more than two decades and I am aware of this. No law will protect us. We are tourists in the end. 

[Percy P]

4 hours ago, Lucius verus said:

ANZ bank this morning offering 20.9 baht for your hard earned dollars.

You may as well just toss your money over the counter and go home.

PI's and Vietnam with weak currencies are going after the Aussie market as well as new direct  destination sri Lanka. Throw cheap Bali into the mix and others and Thailand is in trouble.

It's your own currency what is to blame. Thailand does not fix the rate . It's done on the money markets. Try Visa, Master card.

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

Thai government officials really have only the foggiest notion why foreign tourists come to Thailand and will be equally puzzled when they stop coming. 

With 20 million Chinese coming here I think they have an idea - cheap vacation. 

[dallen52]

Why no one rissening?

 

The people who are here seem to have more knowledge about the situation than the government. 

 

We feel the pain every day. 

And for our Thailand family that relies on our contributions. 

[Grandisse]

I love Thailand, I speak, read and write Thai, so I have a general positive attitude towards Thailand and the Thais.

 

That being said, it seems to me the Thai government and actually a lot of Thais get crazier every day. The exchange rate is horrible, prices are going up for everything, the tourism sector transformed into a quick buck artists scheme rather than being a service industry, visa & immigration lawmakers and executives have taken leave of their senses. And then they really wonder why tourism is going down, especially in light of available alternatives?  Well, what can I say ... the Thai way of thinking, never cease to amuse me ... 

[Matzzon]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Poor you mean

You do know that you just said that the foreign criminality in this country is the main reason that people are less poor than they would be without?

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, Bastos60 said:

True, I used to buy all my brand clothes in Pattaya back in the day, now they are cheaper when I buy at home.

I buy mine at Uniglo, Thai baht my currency is doing well. 

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

He said that Vietnam was increasingly a rival of Thailand for tourist cash. Vietnam has lots of unexplored and new tourism locations and many people are choosing to go there instead of Pattaya in particular and Thailand in general.

The T.A.T propaganda game of Pattaya as a "family friendly resort" finally came home to roost.

Everyone else saw it and reported it for what it was. Rip-off city with only bars & prostitutes... nothing for a family. Finally the high baht has tipped the balance. Tourist have got tired of the same old seedy resort where vendors just wanted you money and made no bones about showing it, from the sharks on the beach, to the restaurants upping prices, double pricing, taxi wars you name it killed it !

Vietnam has always been a good destination with much to offer, with a government that is pro-active in increasing tourism... not just putting a spin on it !

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

I guess that's why Thailand has 40 tourists to Vietnam's 1.

 

Many many years here already. Family ties that I can't walk away from.

 

Yes just spent a load on a new car. Apart from that now, minimal spend. Help family for genuine stuff, not nonsense. Do I watch the money? Yes, very much so as I feel I am not getting value for money, especially in Tesco and the like with exchange rates versus products supplied.

 

Do I have the money? Yes. All houses and motors, both cars and bikes, paid for.No big expenses.

 

I don't buy wine, a rip off totally. We use the barbecue to cook local Thai food regularly at home. We drink beer, at home. If the Thai government wants us to become Hermits in their kingdom, so be it. We buy more and more local produce and vegetables and fruits in season.

 

With all new visa regulations such as TM30 and TM28, I will no longer visit Koh Chang, after this years trip. I quit all the other tourist places quite a while ago, as nothing there to interest me. Similarly, I won't stay overnight in another province anymore nor spend money there, due to enforcement of these TM regulations.

 

I will and do, recommend Vietnam to my family and friends and tell them where to go for value for money, beaches, tourism, and, did I mention it, value for money. I do recommend a visit to the aforementioned, and as well as there, side trips once at least, to Siem Reap, Cambodia.

 

I do tell friends and family that Thailand is no longer value for money as a tourist destination, is not tourist friendly anymore, has got expensive and there are far better places to go in the region, and guess what else I tell them? ........I will meet up and go with them to Vietnam as it''s only a hop away and 15 day no hassle visa waiver. I have seen and witnesses the tremendous efforts the Viets are now putting in to the market to get the tourist dollar. So, I believe your 40 to 1 ratio will change and soon.

 

I do spend plenty of cash in restaurants, sightseeing, bars etc. in Vietnam. All the money I used to spend in Thailand.I don't want anybody to kiss my $ss, I just want to feel I am getting value for money in a country not an ' open prison ' which is the feeling many expats are getting. Undervalued and overly restricted.

 

Going out to socialize is very much part of Western culture, more so than Chinese or Indians, These are the areas that Westerners cannot be replaced, be them expats or tourists. Neither are we fans of zero dollar tours or being herded around.

 

I don't think I am the only expat thinking like this!

 

If my partners mother were not here anymore, we would look at relocation. That is how cheesed I am with the place and the authorities these days.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Scouse123

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, Grandisse said:

I love Thailand, I speak, read and write Thai, so I have a general positive attitude towards Thailand and the Thais.

 

That being said, it seems to me the Thai government and actually a lot of Thais get crazier every day. The exchange rate is horrible, prices are going up for everything, the tourism sector transformed into a quick buck artists scheme rather than being a service industry, visa & immigration lawmakers and executives have taken leave of their senses. And then they really wonder why tourism is going down, especially in light of available alternatives?  Well, what can I say ... the Thai way of thinking, never cease to amuse me ... 

Your currency is horrible not the exchange rate.  Where can you go and not get beaten down?  Turkey or Egypt I guess. 

[brewsterbudgen]

TOURIST - a person who is traveling or visiting a place for pleasure.
 
Nothing more, nothing less. There is NO specification on time in any definition anywhere

Try getting an indefinite tourist visa for any country. Thailand is more generous than most in offering multiple-entry tourist visas and easy extensions.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Beggar]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

With 20 million Chinese coming here I think they have an idea - cheap vacation. 

Thailand has for sure a better infrastructure for mass tourism - at least until now. It has been longer on the market. 

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

The T.A.T propaganda game of Pattaya as a "family friendly resort" finally came home to roost.

Everyone else saw it and reported it for what it was. Rip-off city with only bars & prostitutes... nothing for a family. Finally the high baht has tipped the balance. Tourist have got tired of the same old seedy resort where vendors just wanted you money and made no bones about showing it, from the sharks on the beach, to the restaurants upping prices, double pricing, taxi wars you name it killed it !

Vietnam has always been a good destination with much to offer, with a government that is pro-active in increasing tourism... not just putting a spin on it !

Have you ever lived in Vietnam and gotten a retirement visa and got married? 

[brewsterbudgen]

Thailand IS OVER AND finished with drastic immigration  law....  people can''t come and it;s too expensive...   The  good days are over 

How are tourists affected by Thai immigration laws, which for them, have hardly changed?!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[hotchilli]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Have you ever lived in Vietnam and gotten a retirement visa and got married? 

No I've never lived in Vietnam, got a retirement visa or got married to  Vietnamese national...

But I have done all that in Thailand... 

I have however visited Vietnam many times.

[rodknock]

how about being overcharged!!!

try getting a taxi!!

ripped of by lady boys!!

yea, let's go and get ------

[MartinKal]

Yes there is competition, but let's take a look at it first.

Bali, Bali the beautiful. But kuta beach has been unfavorably compared to UK's clacton-on-sea. And Ubud is so crowded and the lovely rice terraces built over that people cannot pass on the pavement without stepping into the street. So I wouldn't go there.

 

What about Vietnam Is there a more all year round polluted city than Hanoi? Yes, Saigon. And is Agent Orange a Buddhist attraction or is it in fact a deadly poison that remains in the soil together with the cluster bombs from the last war? So that's off my itinerary.

 

Malaysia is fine, but Liberties restricted if you know what I mean and the cost of living there is a lot higher than in Thailand. So I wouldn't go that either.

 

That leaves Myanmar which to my mind represents the biggest long-term threat, but for the moment is not developed for tourism.

 

No, rather than trying to blame the competition for the drop in numbers, the new Tourist Authority Chief could do well to focus on the weaknesses of Thailand itself. And start with taking a look at the infrastructure which has unfortunately being eroded since it was put in place in the 1980s.

[bert bloggs]

Its no surprise western tourism is down ,i as do many of you read the British newspapers online ,i can honestly say for a long time now i have not read one good thing about Thailand ,even my family say that if it was not for the fact we are here they would not consider Thailand , friends who spend months here are down to weeks ,because of the strong baht

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, rodknock said:

how about being overcharged!!!

try getting a taxi!!

ripped of by lady boys!!

yea, let's go and get ------

Ya a couple of times in Vietnam but not too much.