Scotland's leader tells Johnson: we want an independence referendum

[geoffbezoz]

12 minutes ago, gamini said:

But it voted to stay in the EU

and in the UK

[geoffbezoz]

3 hours ago, Chicken George said:

Let the rest of the UK vote on Scottish independence too.. Scotland would be gone.. But beware we will not let you have the pound. A hard border. Get your own army Navy and Airforce. No right to own property or work in the UK. No tax allowances in the UK. That's no second house.. No right of abode.. Visit the rest of the UK then get a visa.. No money from Westminster.. Not  what I originally wished for but fed up of the moaning. Goodbye Scotland.????

And definitely no MPs in the English parliament or any members of metropolitan councils born in Scotland and/or of Scottish parents or grand parents.            

Edited July 26, 2019 by geoffbezoz

[ThaiBunny]

How soon can this referendum be brought on? Good riddance I say

[DefaultName]

"we want"  No, it's just you luv.  (I'm Scots)

[Jip99]

12 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Is democracy rationed now?

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No....just keep voting every couple of of months until you get the result that suits you...

[AGareth2]

17 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

“The Scottish government will continue to make preparations to give people in Scotland the choice of becoming an independent country,”

and join the euro

and Shengen

and under ECJ laws

and not to forget the Euro army as well as being a province of Europe

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by AGareth2

[Baerboxer]

15 hours ago, vogie said:

I thought Scotland had had their once in a life time referendum?

 

It did. But wee Nicola didn't like the result. She sees herself a "President for Life"!

[vogie]

44 minutes ago, gamini said:

But it voted to stay in the EU

And?

[Baerboxer]

13 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Is democracy rationed now?

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No. Also depends on what you think democracy is. A minority in one region "demanding" that they can do as they please to the massively large majority of the sovereign country? 

 

Tail wagging dog democracy!

 

With Sturgeon and her nasty National Socialists it's all about themselves and their control. 

[Baerboxer]

23 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

and join the euro

and Shengen

and under ECJ laws

and not to forget the Euro army as well as being a province of Europe

 

Yes, yes, yes. But Nicola could be the ruler and that's all she wants or cares about!

[vogie]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

What a completely inane post. You are the reason Scotland is even contemplating independence. 

Scotland is not contemplating independence, only the Scottish nationalists are doing this.

[Baerboxer]

13 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

You are damned right they did - let's hope they don't make the same mistake next time.

 

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Maybe the Shetlands and Orkneys are gonna want to vote on whether they become independent, stay in the UK, apply to join Norway too!

[aright]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It begs a question.

 

In the event of the break up of the UK, what happens to the UK’s position at the UN Security Council?

Why does it matter? The Security council have no teeth. The P5 have one vote, one veto and the veto is constantly used to prevent progress on global issues. The SC is archaic.

 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Scotland is not contemplating independence, only the Scottish nationalists are doing this.

 

Indeed. And as usual trying to use any trick they can to claim "a majority". Wonder what she want to try and reduce the voting age to this time?

 

Scottish National Socialist Party - hmmm, wording seems familiar some how??

[aright]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

What a completely inane post. You are the reason Scotland is even contemplating independence.

Let's break down your statement:-

 

'Let the rest of the UK vote on Scottish independence too..'  - Why? It would have nothing to do with them.

'we will not let you have the pound' - it's not yours (and I assume you're English). It belongs to the whole of the UK which if I recall, Scotland is still very much a part of.

'No tax allowances in the UK' - what's that supposed to mean? If Scotland leaves it will not be part of the UK (as the UK won't exist any more) and will set their own taxes.

'A hard border' - Hadrian built the wall. Scotland's been wanting to build it higher for years to keep you bampots out.

'Get your own army Navy and Airforce' - again, they are not yours. they belong to the whole of the UK. This is the type of English arrogance the Scots have to put up with on a daily basis.

'No right to own property or work in the UK' - I assume again you mean England (no Uk remember) and why wouldn't they? Russians, Chinese, Europeans, Americans and the rest of world can own property in England so why shouldn't the Scots? And as for working, the same rules would apply for any foreign national.

The rest are just nonsense so let's skip to the juicy part:-

'No money from Westminster' - Fine. Just leave the oil, natural resources and whisky. They'll be fine.

 

Scotland has a legitimate gripe concerning self-governance as they have no say whatsoever in what political party gets into Westminster and when voting very firmly to remain, it again makes no difference.  If the same circumstances were happening to English we'd never hear the end of it.

As the leader of the SNP, Sturgeon only has Scotland's interests at heart and although I'm not a fan of leaving the UK, stupid, rabid statements like this make me inclined to reconsider.  

 

 

 

All this from a people who complain about their lack of self governance but want to be independent and in the EU and governed by Brussels. I can't think of a bigger dichotomy. 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

What a completely inane post. You are the reason Scotland is even contemplating independence.

Let's break down your statement:-

 

'Let the rest of the UK vote on Scottish independence too..'  - Why? It would have nothing to do with them.

'we will not let you have the pound' - it's not yours (and I assume you're English). It belongs to the whole of the UK which if I recall, Scotland is still very much a part of.

'No tax allowances in the UK' - what's that supposed to mean? If Scotland leaves it will not be part of the UK (as the UK won't exist any more) and will set their own taxes.

'A hard border' - Hadrian built the wall. Scotland's been wanting to build it higher for years to keep you bampots out.

'Get your own army Navy and Airforce' - again, they are not yours. they belong to the whole of the UK. This is the type of English arrogance the Scots have to put up with on a daily basis.

'No right to own property or work in the UK' - I assume again you mean England (no Uk remember) and why wouldn't they? Russians, Chinese, Europeans, Americans and the rest of world can own property in England so why shouldn't the Scots? And as for working, the same rules would apply for any foreign national.

The rest are just nonsense so let's skip to the juicy part:-

'No money from Westminster' - Fine. Just leave the oil, natural resources and whisky. They'll be fine.

 

Scotland has a legitimate gripe concerning self-governance as they have no say whatsoever in what political party gets into Westminster and when voting very firmly to remain, it again makes no difference.  If the same circumstances were happening to English we'd never hear the end of it.

As the leader of the SNP, Sturgeon only has Scotland's interests at heart and although I'm not a fan of leaving the UK, stupid, rabid statements like this make me inclined to reconsider.  

 

 

 

 

What arrogant nonsense!

 

The country is the United Kingdom - our nationality British.

 

It's supremely arrogant and selfish that one small minority in one region seek to vote on something, restrict who can vote and then impose a result they like on the majority.

 

And then in your next statement, you want to claim everything belongs to everyone. Aye, as long as your're lot are dictating.

 

It's actually nationalist Scots who are arrogant, hypercritical bigots who want to boss everyone else around with their do as we say not as we do crap.

[gunderhill]

She never shuts her  mouth, perhaps she should try a few  socks?

[johnnybangkok]

20 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What arrogant nonsense!

 

The country is the United Kingdom - our nationality British.

 

It's supremely arrogant and selfish that one small minority in one region seek to vote on something, restrict who can vote and then impose a result they like on the majority.

 

And then in your next statement, you want to claim everything belongs to everyone. Aye, as long as your're lot are dictating.

 

It's actually nationalist Scots who are arrogant, hypercritical bigots who want to boss everyone else around with their do as we say not as we do crap.

There's nothing arrogant with what I have said. It's just fact; England doesn't own the pound nor the armed forces. Only a nation state should be given the chance to vote regarding the state of it's nation and Scotland is well aware of the financials if it leaves the UK.

And we know all about arrogant, hypocritical (correct spelling please note) bigots who want to boss everyone else around. Scotland is attached to England after all.  

[from the home of CC]

4 hours ago, Chicken George said:

Let the rest of the UK vote on Scottish independence too.. Scotland would be gone.. But beware we will not let you have the pound. A hard border. Get your own army Navy and Airforce. No right to own property or work in the UK. No tax allowances in the UK. That's no second house.. No right of abode.. Visit the rest of the UK then get a visa.. No money from Westminster.. Not  what I originally wished for but fed up of the moaning. Goodbye Scotland.????

who would control the oil off the coast - curious not a flame..

[aright]

4 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

There's nothing arrogant with what I have said. It's just fact; England doesn't own the pound nor the armed forces. Only a nation state should be given the chance to vote regarding the state of it's nation and Scotland is well aware of the financials if it leaves the UK.

And we know all about arrogant, hypocritical (correct spelling please note) bigots who want to boss everyone else around. Scotland is attached to England after all.  

You are right England doesn't own them; the British do and when you gain your independence you will no longer be a part of Great Britain and have no claim on them. 

[ThaiBunny]

13 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

England doesn't own the pound

Correct; the pound sterling is owned by the countries that make up the United Kingdom. Leave the UK and you leave the sterling area. The last time there was a Scottish referendum there were stories about people refusing to accept sterling pound notes issued by the Bank of Scotland as having the same value as those issued by the Bank of England. And if you think the "Irish backstop" is a circus, wait until you get a Scotland that's a member of the EU and an England that's not

[johnnybangkok]

10 minutes ago, aright said:

You are right England doesn't own them; the British do and when you gain your independence you will no longer be a part of Great Britain and have no claim on them. 

One could argue that with just England and Wales (Northern Ireland not being part of Great Britain), there wouldn't be much of a Great Britain left to constitute the name but I'm being obtuse. 

There have been proposals put forward about what happens to the pound which would have to be seen if it can work but my point is it's not just up to the English what happens to a currency that is used by 4 countries.

And just to make things clear, I'm not for Scottish independence but my reply was to combat the inane arrogance of a previous poster who was taking everything away from Scotland because he felt that Scotland wouldn't deserve it. My point was it wasn't his to take away.

[DougSunee]

The Pound Sterling is freely traded on International markets and as such a Westminster Government couldn’t stop an Independent Scotland using it. However as the Treasury would still control interest rates I’d rather that Scotland had its own currency as soon as possible after independence.

Prior to joining the Euro Zone countries must be part of the European Rate Mechanism (ERM) membership of the ERM is optional. 

 

Military assets belong to the 4 countries that make up Greater Britain and as such an agreement about their dispersal will have to be reached. 

The exception to this is The Trident Ballistic Missile Fleet that is not up for debate and it will have to be removed, I’m sure the people of the English south coast will welcome their new neighbours with open arms. 

 

[RuamRudy]

 
No. Also depends on what you think democracy is. A minority in one region "demanding" that they can do as they please to the massively large majority of the sovereign country? 
 
Tail wagging dog democracy!
 
With Sturgeon and her nasty National Socialists it's all about themselves and their control. 

Scotland is a country, not a region. But you do highlight the main problem - what England wants, England gets and the rest of the home nations have to put up with it.

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[RuamRudy]

 
What arrogant nonsense!
 
The country is the United Kingdom - our nationality British.
 
It's supremely arrogant and selfish that one small minority in one region seek to vote on something, restrict who can vote and then impose a result they like on the majority.
 
And then in your next statement, you want to claim everything belongs to everyone. Aye, as long as your're lot are dictating.
 
It's actually nationalist Scots who are arrogant, hypercritical bigots who want to boss everyone else around with their do as we say not as we do crap.

 
What arrogant nonsense!
 
The country is the United Kingdom - our nationality British.
 
It's supremely arrogant and selfish that one small minority in one region seek to vote on something, restrict who can vote and then impose a result they like on the majority.
 
And then in your next statement, you want to claim everything belongs to everyone. Aye, as long as your're lot are dictating.
 
It's actually nationalist Scots who are arrogant, hypercritical bigots who want to boss everyone else around with their do as we say not as we do crap.

Would it be better if we Scots, who overwhelmingly rejected Brexit in every single constituency across our country, accept that it is our fate because our larger neighbour demands it?

It certainly doesn't feel like Scots are trying to boss anyone else around. Our government is merely trying to protect our country from the damage that most considered opinion suggests its going to come if Brexit is imposed upon us.

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[hhinhh]

16 hours ago, elliss said:

 

Nah , they got it wrong that time mate..

As the British got it wrong to vote for Brexit

[aright]

34 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

One could argue that with just England and Wales (Northern Ireland not being part of Great Britain), there wouldn't be much of a Great Britain left to constitute the name but I'm being obtuse. 

There have been proposals put forward about what happens to the pound which would have to be seen if it can work but my point is it's not just up to the English what happens to a currency that is used by 4 countries.

And just to make things clear, I'm not for Scottish independence but my reply was to combat the inane arrogance of a previous poster who was taking everything away from Scotland because he felt that Scotland wouldn't deserve it. My point was it wasn't his to take away.

 

15 minutes ago, DougSunee said:

The Pound Sterling is freely traded on International markets and as such a Westminster Government couldn’t stop an Independent Scotland using it. However as the Treasury would still control interest rates I’d rather that Scotland had its own currency as soon as possible after independence.

Prior to joining the Euro Zone countries must be part of the European Rate Mechanism (ERM) membership of the ERM is optional. 

 

Military assets belong to the 4 countries that make up Greater Britain and as such an agreement about their dispersal will have to be reached. 

The exception to this is The Trident Ballistic Missile Fleet that is not up for debate and it will have to be removed, I’m sure the people of the English south coast will welcome their new neighbours with open arms. 

 

You are both right sterling is an international currency and anyone can use it as Doug says. I disagree however Doug that the treasury controls interest rates the Central Bank does (the Bank of England) and of course it does it for the benefit of the UK because we all use the pound. The Treasury controls public spending.

The problem for Scotland apart from interest rates is, as an independent country they would have no Central Bank (all first world countries have them) with sufficient financial reserves to guarantee their debts. Creating one is difficult for a country which on independence will be close to bankruptcy. Who will loan a country, on a financial cliff edge, squillions just to guarantee debts with a possibility of Scotland defaulting on the loan.

Don't get me wrong I am not against Scottish Independence, if that's what the majority of the electorate want....in my book no problem.

 

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, ThaiBunny said:

Correct; the pound sterling is owned by the countries that make up the United Kingdom. Leave the UK and you leave the sterling area. The last time there was a Scottish referendum there were stories about people refusing to accept sterling pound notes issued by the Bank of Scotland as having the same value as those issued by the Bank of England. And if you think the "Irish backstop" is a circus, wait until you get a Scotland that's a member of the EU and an England that's not

Cheaper BM's and Mercs ??

????????????

and loads of sausages from Germany.

Hint.

I'm not taking this seriously.

Edited July 26, 2019 by overherebc

[DougSunee]

aright

Your correct interest rates are set by the BoE I’ll amend my post. Ah it won’t let me never mind.

Edited July 26, 2019 by DougSunee

[DougSunee]

12 minutes ago, aright said:

 

You are both right sterling is an international currency and anyone can use it as Doug says. I disagree however Doug that the treasury controls interest rates the Central Bank does (the Bank of England) and of course it does it for the benefit of the UK because we all use the pound. The Treasury controls public spending.

The problem for Scotland apart from interest rates is, as an independent country they would have no Central Bank (all first world countries have them) with sufficient financial reserves to guarantee their debts. Creating one is difficult for a country which on independence will be close to bankruptcy. Who will loan a country, on a financial cliff edge, squillions just to guarantee debts with a possibility of Scotland defaulting on the loan.

Don't get me wrong I am not against Scottish Independence, if that's what the majority of the electorate want....in my book no problem.

 

The Scottish Government is in the early days of setting up an investment bank which if I remember correctly will be the basis for a central bank come independence.