Kawasaki KLX 150 bf issues

[Billpro785]

Bought a new 2019 KLX 150bf, and needed the seat height lowered, the local shop installed a lower link made for the bike, shaved the seat, and dropped the forks. Now in the 40 KM per hour plus range bike wonders all over the road, and right turns feels very unstable, and at slow right hand tuns bike just falls out from under me, on the ground almost like the handle bars were turned all the to the right. Any ideas ? , and yes have  ridden both trail, and street bikes many years in the states. So far no damage to the bike, and only slight damage to me. 

[Damrongsak]

Post #10 here - handling problem on a lowered KLX250, I believe. How much were the front and rear lowered? 

 

I'm 5' 5 1/2" and have logged more than 12,000 KM's on mine. Including tight singletrack in the jungles of Thailand and Laos where dabbing is needed at times. Not like in my home deserts of California .

Originally I lowered the bike with lowering links 1 inch. I loved being able to get both feet on the ground for dabbing through the jungle roots and such. However in the end I went back to the stock links. Even with the fork triples dropped the 5/8 of an inch to where the tubes taper it was still not enough to compensate for the lowered rear geometry. It steered horribly in turns, the front end not sticking worth a damn, even with my crotch on the tank. Put the original links back and love the handling.

 

https://advrider.com/f/threads/klx250-how-low-can-you-go.255336/

[jackdd]

The only thing you can adjust is the height of the front forks, so try changing this slightly, maybe it helps.

You should have just bought the KLX150 instead of the KLX150BF, then the height would have been ok without tampering with the geometry of the bike.

[VocalNeal]

55 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You should have just bought the KLX150 instead of the KLX150BF,

For the uninitiated what is the difference?

[jackdd]

3 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

For the uninitiated what is the difference? 

The main difference is that it comes with 19/16 wheels instead of 21/18. Seat height of 825 instead of 870. 5kg lighter. This is just made for smaller riders.

[Billpro785]

The 150bf was the only model the dealers had in stock. Found a KLX 125, but read reviews of being unpowered. Will try the fork adjustment. 

 

[Nickymaster]

This is tricky and dangerous. You can't expect a bike to handle well if you drastically change its geometry. I would sell it and buy a model that "fits" out of the box. 

[Farangwithaplan]

11 hours ago, Billpro785 said:

Now in the 40 KM per hour plus range bike wonders all over the road, and right turns feels very unstable, and at slow right hand tuns bike just falls out from under me, on the ground almost like the handle bars were turned all the to the right. Any ideas ?

What you are explaining can be a symptom of (not the only symptom of) a lack of trail on the front end. Lowering kits are sold as an easy way to drop the ride height of a bike. But as you are finding, seemingly small changes can have big effects.

 

For example, on the rear, you have had lowering links added. The  linkages on the rear suspension single shock systems often work to add leverage to the shock. Ride height is a side effect of changing linkages. Effectiveness of the rear shock is the primary purpose. I've looked on the Kawa web site and in the photos can't really get much view of the rear linkages to work out when the effect of lowering the ride height will have on the shock. Why is this important?

 

If the lowering links add more leverage onto the rear shock, it will have the effect of making it feel like the spring, compression valving and rebound valving (which is probably non existent in real terms anyway) is less effective IE: softer and more easy to squeeze and release the suspension. The opposite to some extent is true if the lowering links add less leverage.

 

So if there is more leverage, the static sag on the spring will be higher making the bike feel more like a 'chopper' style bike. This has the effect of steering slower but with a more stable like manner. All things being equal, if the static sag is less then it will have the effect of making the bike handle more like a racing purpose bike that can steer very nimbly and less stable. My guess, based on not seeing the bike and only what you have briefly explained is this.

 

Okay, experiment time. Find a safe stretch of road or carpark where you can corner at the speed to recognise the issue. Note the speed and all that jazz. Now repeat the process with a friend on the back of the bike as a pillion and repeat the cornering. Report back on whether this is a better or worse result with your pillion onboard.

 

Also let us know your weight and include the approximate weight of the gear (helmet, jacket etc). And let us know the weight of your pillion.

 

We will get to the bottom of this.

 

[Farangwithaplan]

11 minutes ago, Nickymaster said:

This is tricky and dangerous. You can't expect a bike to handle well if you drastically change its geometry. I would sell it and buy a model that "fits" out of the box. 

Different weighted riders on the same totally standard bike can dramatically change the geometry. As does adding a pillion. Many manufactures have made 'low rider' style modifications for bike over the years either as OEM or in conjunction with after market suppliers. Bikes like the Suzuki TL-R went as far as to have adjustable front end rake adjustment which could dramatically and radically change the whole characterist of the bike with a few simple clicks.

 

Even lowering the seat height can change the CoG of a bike and make noticeable changing in handling characteristics.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Farangwithaplan

[Billpro785]

Seems like the bike is top heavy in sharp right turns, any amount of leaning , and over it goes. So far no damage as the bike falls on me. Kind of turns would be sharp rights in soi streets. With all gear I weigh 81 kilo. Almost  feels like the handle bars swing all the way to the right when turning. Is there a simple way to check that the bike sits level ?  F

[Farangwithaplan]

40 minutes ago, Billpro785 said:

Seems like the bike is top heavy in sharp right turns, any amount of leaning , and over it goes. So far no damage as the bike falls on me. Kind of turns would be sharp rights in soi streets. With all gear I weigh 81 kilo. Almost  feels like the handle bars swing all the way to the right when turning. Is there a simple way to check that the bike sits level ?  F

Send a photo of where the forks connect to the top triple clamp. The top triple clamp probably is where the handlebars connect.

[Billpro785]

Will do 

   Thanks 

 

[Farangwithaplan]

take a few different photos of the front end from close up to straight on and side on as well

[thaiguzzi]

8 hours ago, Farangwithaplan said:

Different weighted riders on the same totally standard bike can dramatically change the geometry. As does adding a pillion.

Fascinating.

3 hours ago, Farangwithaplan said:

The top triple clamp probably is where the handlebars connect.

8 hours ago, Farangwithaplan said:

Even lowering the seat height can change the CoG

Double fascinating.

Thanx for that lesson prof...

 

9 hours ago, Farangwithaplan said:

What you are explaining can be a symptom of (not the only symptom of) a lack of trail on the front end. Lowering kits are sold as an easy way to drop the ride height of a bike. But as you are finding, seemingly small changes can have big effects.

 

For example, on the rear, you have had lowering links added. The  linkages on the rear suspension single shock systems often work to add leverage to the shock. Ride height is a side effect of changing linkages. Effectiveness of the rear shock is the primary purpose. I've looked on the Kawa web site and in the photos can't really get much view of the rear linkages to work out when the effect of lowering the ride height will have on the shock. Why is this important?

 

If the lowering links add more leverage onto the rear shock, it will have the effect of making it feel like the spring, compression valving and rebound valving (which is probably non existent in real terms anyway) is less effective IE: softer and more easy to squeeze and release the suspension. The opposite to some extent is true if the lowering links add less leverage.

 

So if there is more leverage, the static sag on the spring will be higher making the bike feel more like a 'chopper' style bike. This has the effect of steering slower but with a more stable like manner. All things being equal, if the static sag is less then it will have the effect of making the bike handle more like a racing purpose bike that can steer very nimbly and less stable. My guess, based on not seeing the bike and only what you have briefly explained is this.

 

Okay, experiment time. Find a safe stretch of road or carpark where you can corner at the speed to recognise the issue. Note the speed and all that jazz. Now repeat the process with a friend on the back of the bike as a pillion and repeat the cornering. Report back on whether this is a better or worse result with your pillion onboard.

 

Also let us know your weight and include the approximate weight of the gear (helmet, jacket etc). And let us know the weight of your pillion.

 

We will get to the bottom of this.

 

Ah, the Ohlins bloke is back.

We are talking about a 12 hp bike that weighs a bit more than a bag of fertilizer.

 

The OP is only having a problem with R/H turns.

Prolly something as simple as the forks not straight.

Like on a bicycle....

[Farangwithaplan]

20 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Fascinating.

Double fascinating.

Thanx for that lesson prof...

 

Ah, the Ohlins bloke is back.

We are talking about a 12 hp bike that weighs a bit more than a bag of fertilizer.

 

The OP is only having a problem with R/H turns.

Prolly something as simple as the forks not straight.

Like on a bicycle....

You put a confused icon next to my post. I assume it is a little all over your head. So you start with name calling.

 

Pal, if you don't have the skill set or the basic mathematics and physics to understand basics features like rake and trail and leverage, then maybe you best start reading if want to offer anything remotely beneficial.

 

What does the amount of HP a bike have to do with the geometry and handling? That's puzzling.

 

A CoG of a bike can change dramatically. You like the old agricultural engined bikes with poor handling characterists from what I've seen. Maybe you don't have the finesse to understand a well set up vehicle.

 

The other issue could be twisted triple clamp, sticking fork, headset bearings, wheel spacer or a bunch of other things. But as the guy said he just had the lowering done, common sense says to start at the start. That is called method. You learn that in your first class of anything worth learning. You might have missed that class.

 

I'm helping the guy. You laughed at him. You're not bringing your A game to this thread.

 

And Olhins weren't my specialty. Penske were. Ever hear of them? I get the feling you are feling threated by someone who bothers to care to assist someone instead of laughing at them. Are you secretly feeling threated because not many people care about the agricultural vehicles you seem to hold dear?

 

And finally, how about you actually counter what I typed in my original post instead of the limp minded excuse for an insult. You are only showing your ignorance and lack of knowledge. I make no excuses for my education. You shouldn't make excuses for the lack of yours with poor retorts.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Farangwithaplan

[Damrongsak]

It looks like there isn't much wiggle room when it comes to moving the USD forks up in the triple clamp if yours is like this pic..  How much was the rear lowered?

 

[Billpro785]

Attached photos on triple clamps. 

[thaiguzzi]

14 hours ago, Farangwithaplan said:

You put a confused icon next to my post. I assume it is a little all over your head. So you start with name calling.

 

Pal, if you don't have the skill set or the basic mathematics and physics to understand basics features like rake and trail and leverage, then maybe you best start reading if want to offer anything remotely beneficial.

 

What does the amount of HP a bike have to do with the geometry and handling? That's puzzling.

 

A CoG of a bike can change dramatically. You like the old agricultural engined bikes with poor handling characterists from what I've seen. Maybe you don't have the finesse to understand a well set up vehicle.

 

The other issue could be twisted triple clamp, sticking fork, headset bearings, wheel spacer or a bunch of other things. But as the guy said he just had the lowering done, common sense says to start at the start. That is called method. You learn that in your first class of anything worth learning. You might have missed that class.

 

I'm helping the guy. You laughed at him. You're not bringing your A game to this thread.

 

And Olhins weren't my specialty. Penske were. Ever hear of them? I get the feling you are feling threated by someone who bothers to care to assist someone instead of laughing at them. Are you secretly feeling threated because not many people care about the agricultural vehicles you seem to hold dear?

 

And finally, how about you actually counter what I typed in my original post instead of the limp minded excuse for an insult. You are only showing your ignorance and lack of knowledge. I make no excuses for my education. You shouldn't make excuses for the lack of yours with poor retorts.

 

No.

You are just an annoying troll that comes on here occasionally spouting half a page of unneccessary tech blurb, thinking big words impresses some poor newbie.

But none of it impresses me.

Just because i like my old stuff, does not mean i'm not genned up on suspension specifics.

One reason my 40 y/o Triumph runs RWU Yamaha FZR EXUP 1000 forks. And Fournales rear shocks.

Jeez, i can't even believe i replied to one of your annoying posts.

 

Re, the OP, those forks do not look er, dropped in the yokes (triple trees if you are 'Mercan)...

 

 

[Farangwithaplan]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

No.

You are just an annoying troll that comes on here occasionally spouting half a page of unneccessary tech blurb, thinking big words impresses some poor newbie.

But none of it impresses me.

Just because i like my old stuff, does not mean i'm not genned up on suspension specifics.

One reason my 40 y/o Triumph runs RWU Yamaha FZR EXUP 1000 forks. And Fournales rear shocks.

Jeez, i can't even believe i replied to one of your annoying posts.

 

Re, the OP, those forks do not look er, dropped in the yokes (triple trees if you are 'Mercan)...

 

 

So why laughing at the OP?

 

So why respond to me if you think I am a troll?

 

And you are yet to explain how the handling has anything to do with the amount of HP.

 

And as usual you have failed to counter any of what I have said with intelligent technical retort. I've given you the opportunity to show me where I am wrong and you have failed yet again. Tat seems to be a common trait of the 'old school' kind. Plenty of heresay and naff all to back it up.

 

Claiming I use big words when they are just actual terms is something you seemed to be threatened by or your wouldn't be lashing out when I attempt to help people who you -  I point out again - laughed at instead of offering to help.

 

Again I make no apologies if you can't keep up with standard industry terms. I'm not going to dumb my posts down just because you can't keep up.

 

It is you sir, who is the troll and it seems one with mediocre understanding of the subject at hand and fearful of those who have some understanding. I suggest that if you are not happy, stop reading and responding unless you can help. You haven't offered anything so far except your scorn and derision and unwarranted smugness.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Farangwithaplan

[Farangwithaplan]

4 hours ago, Billpro785 said:

Attached photos on triple clamps. 

Thanks,

 

It doesn't look like much has been done to the fork location by the bike shop. A few things you can check, though.

1. Check the the top triple clamp is in alignment with the bottom one. There may be some twisting of the forks there.

2. Check the head stem bearings. A bit hard to do by yourself so that may need a mate and possible an engine stand. These bearings support the post from the triple clamp to the top triple clamp. Have the front wheel off the ground and turn the bars. If there is any stiffness or clicking, you need to get it investigated.

Then try to shake the the bars forward or back and see if there is any movement in the bearings. There is a chance you won't fell anything wrong even if the bearings aren't in tolerance but it will rule out the howler issues. There is a more technical way to check this with a spring and a tension wrench but at the risk of getting to technical for another poster, I won't mention it here. It might send them into further meltdown.

3. Are the front brakes binding at all. Look at the front disc and see if there is any uneven wear. Then look into the calipers and check if the brake pads look to be worn even or if the top or bottom of the pad as positioned is more worn than the other.

4. Check tyre pressures.

 

Finally, How did you go with the pillion passenger. did it make a difference to the handling?

 

 

 

 

[Billpro785]

UPDATE

When moving the bike today to storage, noticed when I pushed down on the front the fork clamps are loose, so where should they be , 

[Damrongsak]

Looking at other KLX150 pics, your fork tubes appear to be in about the same stock position.  Not raised in the clamp.  The way those tubes are machined with the tapers, it appears there is a very limited range if you want to slide the tubes up. 

 

[thaiguzzi]

On 7/29/2019 at 1:03 PM, Farangwithaplan said:

So why laughing at the OP?

 

So why respond to me if you think I am a troll?

 

And you are yet to explain how the handling has anything to do with the amount of HP.

 

And as usual you have failed to counter any of what I have said with intelligent technical retort. I've given you the opportunity to show me where I am wrong and you have failed yet again. Tat seems to be a common trait of the 'old school' kind. Plenty of heresay and naff all to back it up.

 

Claiming I use big words when they are just actual terms is something you seemed to be threatened by or your wouldn't be lashing out when I attempt to help people who you -  I point out again - laughed at instead of offering to help.

 

Again I make no apologies if you can't keep up with standard industry terms. I'm not going to dumb my posts down just because you can't keep up.

 

It is you sir, who is the troll and it seems one with mediocre understanding of the subject at hand and fearful of those who have some understanding. I suggest that if you are not happy, stop reading and responding unless you can help. You haven't offered anything so far except your scorn and derision and unwarranted smugness.

 

On 7/29/2019 at 1:24 PM, Farangwithaplan said:

Thanks,

 

It doesn't look like much has been done to the fork location by the bike shop. A few things you can check, though.

1. Check the the top triple clamp is in alignment with the bottom one. There may be some twisting of the forks there.

2. Check the head stem bearings. A bit hard to do by yourself so that may need a mate and possible an engine stand. These bearings support the post from the triple clamp to the top triple clamp. Have the front wheel off the ground and turn the bars. If there is any stiffness or clicking, you need to get it investigated.

Then try to shake the the bars forward or back and see if there is any movement in the bearings. There is a chance you won't fell anything wrong even if the bearings aren't in tolerance but it will rule out the howler issues. There is a more technical way to check this with a spring and a tension wrench but at the risk of getting to technical for another poster, I won't mention it here. It might send them into further meltdown.

3. Are the front brakes binding at all. Look at the front disc and see if there is any uneven wear. Then look into the calipers and check if the brake pads look to be worn even or if the top or bottom of the pad as positioned is more worn than the other.

4. Check tyre pressures.

 

Finally, How did you go with the pillion passenger. did it make a difference to the handling?

 

 

 

 

How many pages more?

See post 21......

[thaiguzzi]

Zombie thread reincarnated from p2.

Because Penske troll has gone all quiet.

And he annoys me.

His essay(s) on what might have gone wrong, have had no reply from the OP because er, the problem was er, the forks were'nt tight in the yokes....

I actually thought maybe it was something as simple as standing in front of the bike with front wheel twixt knees and pulling on the bars a la bicycle.

As it was, it was even simpler.

But oh no, we get passages out of Race Handling Pro.
Listen i dig it if the OP was going on a track day for the first time with his new R6 and wanted advice.

But he wasn't.

He was having problems with a 90 kg 12 bhp bike, which if i'd dropped the rear mudguard down onto the rear wheel with a solid steel strut, lowering the rear end 4", and i put some 4" longer front forks in it, turning it into a chopper, it would still NOT have had the problems the OP described.

And prolly handled fine.