UK PM Johnson tells EU: ditch backstop or face no-deal Brexit

[RickBradford]

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Farage's view on LBC just now is Boris is talking no-deal tough , will get some modest changes to the WA and some re-wording to satisfy the Brexiteers and get that through parliament.  And as Farage says it will still be the worst deal in history - just with a few tweaks. As BoJo said it would be a million to one for a no deal and he has voted for the WA before as has JRM.  So most probably Brino here we come !

Well, Boris has said "Absolutely No Backstop."

 

The EU has said "Absolutely No Deal Without a Backstop."

 

So there's plenty of distance between the two sides. Then again, they are politicians.....

[RickBradford]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Already discussed this to ad nauseam, you trust him.

 

I don't.  

I didn't say I trusted him.

 

I am standing on the facts of the case, which are that he would have to be an idiot to say this publicly if he knew it to be untrue, plus there is no benefit that I can see for him to lie.

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

I didn't say I trusted him.

 

I am standing on the facts of the case, which are that he would have to be an idiot to say this publicly if he knew it to be untrue, plus there is no benefit that I can see for him to lie.

Yes you have repeatedly expressed this view. 

 

Even though it has nothing to do with the point I was making.  

Edited July 28, 2019 by Bluespunk

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The nation that would suffer the most under no deal is the UK.

Start to calculate:

With a NO Deal, all agreements ever fall away, inclusive.. paying import duty when entering the EU.

private cars, petrol products and food products together will genetrate more EU income as the total nett contribution of the UK to the EU. Result: a lot of UK competition will be "dead" 1 Nov if not already migrated to the EU. From that time the EU prayer at a lot of workers will be "God... give us our daily bread and thanks for Boris for killing UK competition"

Second: The UK needs a lot of fresh products + others = 50 % of its foor consumption, so for quite some products the UK has no alternative.

For a lot of UK product

 

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

It is all hypothetical because there will only be a vote on a deal if Boris presents a new deal...... otherwise Article 50 and 31st October.

You forget a small tiny detail

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, puipuitom said:

You forget a small tiny detail

 

 

Indeed.

 

But Boris doesn’t have to get No Deal through parliament. Article 50 achieves that on 31 October.

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, twocatsmac said:

Corbyn hasn’t overlooked it he’s terried of it. It’s the end for Jeremy if the result of a no confidence vote ends with an election.

Sadly for him he realises he could have seized power probably before the European elections but as usual lacked the gonads.

I think, Corbyn is more afraid his candidates will be humiliated by other parties, making LibDem, Greens etc to win Labour ( and Tory) seats. Remind the UK system: the largest in a barony ( constituency) gets the seat, the others nothing. 50% +1 seat = absolute government, but below 50 %... you have the British nightmare: a coalition to form

[dunroaming]

I think we all expected Boris to take the line he has with the EU.  It actually smacks of the approach May took with her red lines and "Brexit means Brexit".  The difference is that May was being pushed into it by the likes of Gove and Johnson and now it is them fronting it up.  Johnson is pushing all the right buttons for the Brexiteers at the moment and they are lapping it up. Where we end up will be interesting.

 

As far as I can see, if we leave by the end of October then it will either be with a re-hashed version of May's deal or no-deal.  There isn't time to re-negotiate anything else and meet that deadline.  It either of those turn out to be true then it is bad news all round.

 

In the meantime the battle will be with their own and other MPs here in the UK.   Buckle up Britain and brace yourself!

Edited July 28, 2019 by dunroaming

[david555]

14 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Indeed.

 

But Boris doesn’t have to get No Deal through parliament. Article 50 achieves that on 31 October.

Yes A50 is on automatic gear ....unless Boris go ask for extension ..., which would be for him a politic suicide.... only white rabbit could be U.K.parliament voting revoke A50 ,which i dont see happen...

 

????

Edited July 28, 2019 by david555

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, Opl said:

UK can turn into fiscal paradise, it's your main Opportunity.   

And then ? The UK treasury needs money to pay for wages, social aid, infrastructure, law&order, NHS ( oh wait.. with the 350 mln pounds a week, zero problems) .

Second: which company wants to be in a Fiscal Paradise, but has big problems in exporting to the biggest economic block on this planet ? Has to apply for a Schengen visa ( remind: NO Deal = no deals exist anymore, even your health Insurance and driver licence are no longer recognised.. unless.,. uni- of bilateral deals on these subjects) 

 

[phetpeter]

I love the way, people go on about the way we will be worst off without understanding that, its all talk. nobody really knows what will occur. Lets do it, and see what happens, the lights aren't going to go, things are bad enough already. I bet things will turn out good in the end thats for sure. World war three aint going to happen when we stop giving cash to Europe and suddenly find the UK has some money in the kitty to spend on its own people. 

[RickBradford]

2 minutes ago, phetpeter said:

I love the way, people go on about the way we will be worst off without understanding that, its all talk. nobody really knows what will occur. Lets do it, and see what happens, the lights aren't going to go, things are bad enough already. I bet things will turn out good in the end thats for sure. World war three aint going to happen when we stop giving cash to Europe and suddenly find the UK has some money in the kitty to spend on its own people. 

I think it's reasonable to assume that Brexit won't be as good as the Brexiteers think, and won't be as bad as the Remainers think.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, phetpeter said:

I love the way, people go on about the way we will be worst off without understanding that, its all talk. nobody really knows what will occur. Lets do it, and see what happens, the lights aren't going to go, things are bad enough already. I bet things will turn out good in the end thats for sure. World war three aint going to happen when we stop giving cash to Europe and suddenly find the UK has some money in the kitty to spend on its own people. 

It's called sour grapes, none of the EUmainers wants us to go in reality, they will have to dig deeper into their own pockets, but will they admit it, of course not.

[david555]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

It's called sour grapes, none of the EUmainers wants us to go in reality, they will have to dig deeper into their own pockets, but will they admit it, of course not.

until now you had never the balls to leave …..hoping on cherry's in different wordings.... no way !

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

It's not at all as I see things. EU clearly said many times that she doesn't want a no-deal exit, but what Boris is asking is a country (or group of) to accept to not have any control on a part of its frontier! It's just unacceptable.

As a hard border between the 2 Irelands is also inacceptable by all countries involved, the only solution found until now is this temporary backstop.

EU will agree to remove it... as soon as "alternative arrangements are found to avoid a hard border".

So what are these alternative arrangements that Boris propose? None...  (AFAIK).

The EU had very unpleasant experiences with the open border then , mid 80's with Switzerland. One of the items I remember as dried fruit trader was, that Greece got a minimum import price of raisins into the EU, by coincidence ONLY hurting the Turks. Switzerland exported 700.000 tons in one year, with.. zero growing these.

Can you imagine an open S<-> N Irish border, with..  migrants by the 10.000ths crossing over to the UK ? Why Eire would stop them ? Salvini will thank Boris 5x/day in his prayers.

Bye-the-way: "alternative arrangements are found to avoid a hard border".   … This IS the backstop. Only the British now want to rely on inventions, which replaces customs employees. Only… not a glue what that invention should be. Maybe a Harry Potter ?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

And then ? The UK treasury needs money to pay for wages, social aid, infrastructure, law&order, NHS ( oh wait.. with the 350 mln pounds a week, zero problems) .

Second: which company wants to be in a Fiscal Paradise, but has big problems in exporting to the biggest economic block on this planet ? Has to apply for a Schengen visa ( remind: NO Deal = no deals exist anymore, even your health Insurance and driver licence are no longer recognised.. unless.,. uni- of bilateral deals on these subjects) 

 

Never mind eh....

 

My mother was bombed out of two houses, lost everything over a band of countries who wanted to control others, and the not to distant past.

 

The countries that suffered back then have tried the EU, which has turned out to be NOT "The Band of Brothers"....UK is leaving, enough was enough, and I am sure there are other EU members thinking/talking the same in their back rooms. Of course the "Oliver Twist" countries will be striving for the opportunity to "Ask for More"...

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

The leader of the house is Jacob Rees-Mogg  and it is the attorney general who provides legal government advice, not an extremist of the ERG clan

Yes, and forbids a lot of words, even forbids the metric system units, so back to '.. pounds, stones, inches, feet, gallons etc. Back to the Victorian ara.

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

The only way not to have a 'no deal' is to agree to a deal, everyone must understand whether remainer or leaver that Mays deal is as dead as a dodo. There is a new kid on the block now, there hopefully will be none of this pussy footing as Mrs May did, if the EU won't agree to talk to Boris about a deal, as good as Boris is we will have to walk away without a deal.

So by the EU saying they don't want a no deal exit, they are the only ones that can remedy the situation, the ball is in their court so to speak.

Why 27 Parliaments of the EU would bow for a spoiled child, who wants more, more and more … The UK wants to leave, so..  L E A V E 

[david555]

3 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Yes, and forbids a lot of words, even forbids the metric system units, so back to '.. pounds, stones, inches, feet, gallons etc. Back to the Victorian ara.

He looks quit  like Victorian type

[transam]

2 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Yes, and forbids a lot of words, even forbids the metric system units, so back to '.. pounds, stones, inches, feet, gallons etc. Back to the Victorian ara.

Who forbids metric units....?

 

The USA uses MPH, weigh in pounds, but their threads have been metric for over 30 years...Sorry, but you really do not know what you are talking about...

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

What is sad is that too many Remoaners do not have the good grace to accept the outcome of a referendum.

48,11%, just a mere, neglectable and ignorable quantity…  in British democracy.

Remind; this is NOT a step like accepting open shops on Christmas eve,. but.. a gigantic change in direction for decades for a complete nation.

Edited July 28, 2019 by puipuitom

[Jip99]

7 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

48,11%, just a mere, neglectable and ignorable quantity…  in British democracy.

Remind; this is NOT a step like accepting open shops on Christmas eve,. but.. a gigantic change in direction for decades for a complete nation.

 

 

I think Cameron said that.

 

 

I think he said if a majority choose Leave, that is exactly what will happen.

 

Good man Cameron.

[aright]

6 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

48,11%, just a mere, neglectable and ignorable quantity…  in British democracy.

Remind; this is NOT a step like accepting open shops on Christmas eve,. but.. a gigantic change in direction for decades for a complete nation.

Yes a mere 1.3 million more people voted to leave than stay, a neglectable and ignorable quantity

[beautifulthailand99]

50 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Indeed.

 

But Boris doesn’t have to get No Deal through parliament. Article 50 achieves that on 31 October.

The EU could unilaterally extend A50 legally if they wanted  it's their club after all. Especially if an election was in the offing. Remain politicians are already talking with the EU unofficially about such a prospect. 

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

Yes a mere 1.3 million more people voted to leave than stay, a neglectable and ignorable quantity

Which would be ok if they knew what they voted for. Even here on the forum there is disagreement if the vote was for 'no deal' or 'leave with deal'. This vague wording has caused a lot of trouble.

Edited July 28, 2019 by stevenl

[beautifulthailand99]

6 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I think Cameron said that.

 

 

I think he said if a majority choose Leave, that is exactly what will happen.

 

Good man Cameron.

advisory vote - and anyway Cameron has gone. 

[AGareth2]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

The EU could unilaterally extend A50 legally

Pardon?

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, aright said:

I agree but it's not only respect for the outcome of a referendum it's also their blindness to what the EU has become and a lack of concern about its direction of travel and growing dissatisfaction within the Union. They keep saying we need to work from within but when you ask them how they have no answer. 

It's surprising that almost no journalists mention one man who has seen the stifling  of democracy in the EU over the last thirty years, who has given speech after speech pointing out its many flaws, who has faced insults and violence .  A man who hasn't vacillated as 95% of our MPs have but stood by his standards through thick and thin.

I refer to, of course, Nigel Farage who has given the UK Brexit and a chance to break away from the EU Prison, its planned destiny.  What really put the wind up the MPs, including Boris Johnson was the European elections where one man and him alone showed how many Britons still want Brexit, still wanted their freedom although it might mean they may be poorer for a while. 

 

Yes, 31.6+3,3% see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

many Britons still want Brexit, still wanted their freedom ? Probably you ment: Irish & Scotish ?

 

How: freedom ? 

NO EU agreement without also the signature of the British PM

NO EU regulation without the co-signature of the EU Commission, inclusive the British

NO EU law without approval at the EU parliament, with 73 British delegates.

 

Bye-the-way: British democracy: 594,553 votes = 3 seats, 571,846 votes = no seats, 105,928 votes = 1 seat, 129,603 votes = no seat

Results of the 2019 European Parliament election in the United Kingdom^[206]

Party		Alliance		Votes			Seats
				Number	%	+/-	Seats	+/-	%
	Brexit Party		NI	5,248,533	30.5	new party	29	new party	39.7
	Liberal Democrats		ALDE	3,367,284	19.6	13.0	16	15	21.9
	Labour Party		S&D	2,347,255	13.7	10.8	10	10	13.7
	Green Party of England and Wales		G/EFA	1,881,306	11.8	4.0	7	4	9.6
	Conservative Party		ECR	1,512,809	8.8	14.3	4	15	5.5
	Scottish National Party		G/EFA	594,553	3.5	1.1	3	1	4.1
	Plaid Cymru		G/EFA	163,928	1.0	0.3	1		1.4
	Sinn Féin		GUE/NGL	126,951	0.7	0.2	1		1.4
	Democratic Unionist Party		NI	124,991	0.7	0.1	1		1.4
	Alliance Party of Northern Ireland		ALDE	105,928	0.6	0.3	1	1	1.4
	Change UK		EPP[party 1]	571,846	3.3	new party	0	new party	0
	UK Independence Party		N/A	554,463	3.2	23.4	0	24	0
	Scottish Green Party		G/EFA	129,603	0.8	0.1	0		0

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RickBradford]

7 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

The EU could unilaterally extend A50 legally if they wanted  it's their club after all. Especially if an election was in the offing. Remain politicians are already talking with the EU unofficially about such a prospect. 

I don't think that's correct. Otherwise, the EU could stop the UK leaving, just by extending and extending.

 

The Institute of Government says: "Article 50 allows for either side to request an extension ... " which requires the agreement of the other side.

[aright]

Yes, 31.6+3,3% see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

many Britons still want Brexit, still wanted their freedom ? Probably you ment: Irish & Scotish ?...........................………...…………………..

 

 

Can you please explain how your reply is related to my post?