Where digital nomads can legally work in Asia

[PingRoundTheWorld]

3 hours ago, easydoesit said:

Now if I was a member of the Thailand Tax Authority trying to manage tax collection in Thailand and I happened to read this asshats ignorant and misinformed comments, I would feel compelled to found out where specifically in Chiang Mai he is working and pay him a visit

So you would waste your time (and taxpayer money) going after a guy who's already paying taxes in America and therefore is protected by US-Thai treaties preventing double taxation? Good job there Mr Wannabe-tax-man.

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, bergan said:

 

Freelance translators is one example, how come a Bosnian to English (or vice versa) translator can not stay here and pay taxes, getting a proper visa? He or she would not be taking any jobs away at all, apart from maybe the odd Thai who might have been brought up in Bosnia and then decided to move back to the original country. That's just one example, but I am sure there are many others.

 

 

And what exactly would be a visa for a Bosnian to English translator in any country? He/she doesn't do any work in the country so not working visa. Not really a tourist either.

 

I think people are thinking too much over it. Just get whatever visa suits you and work via VPN. It may or may not be quite legal, but hey, we are in Thailand. Prostitution is also illegal, but probably the vast majority of the high horse TV posters broke the law. 

[bergan]

1 minute ago, gearbox said:

And what exactly would be a visa for a Bosnian to English translator in any country? He/she doesn't do any work in the country so not working visa. Not really a tourist either.

 

I think people are thinking too much over it. Just get whatever visa suits you and work via VPN. It may or may not be quite legal, but hey, we are in Thailand. Prostitution is also illegal, but probably the vast majority of the high horse TV posters broke the law. 

My point is that this translator would not even be able to work permanently from Thailand, pay taxes and stay legally. He or she would be a criminal according to their laws, while it would be possible to make a visa available and let that person pay taxes. Do you seriously think the laws in this country accommodates that? They don't.

[ericthai]

15 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

No, you are wrong.

 

That is only certain occupations which are on the "protected list". Nothing to do with being a digital pikey or having a work permit for other jobs.

 

http://www.mol.go.th/en/content/page/6347

 

However, like everything in Thailand there are ways to get around this eg. I have seen non-Thai shop workers and Managers.

 

RAZZ

 

 

 

no way to get around it. Those you have seen are breaking the law and if caught will be punished. Over the years I've know many guys that work in bars, restaurants etc with no work permit and get away with it for years. 

[Isaanbiker]

My favourite digital nomads are the Nigerians who make a lot of money fooling Thai women.

 

 I'd really love to know many "digital nomads" are fooling other people. It's not always a straightforward, or honest business.  

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

  

Edited July 29, 2019 by Isaanbiker

[bergan]

13 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

My favourite digital nomads are the Nigerians who make a lot of money fooling Thai women.

 

 I'd really love to know many "digital nomads" are fooling other people. It's not always a straightforward, or honest business.  

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

  

I'd like to know how many people in this thread are living here on welfare from their home country, condemning people making an honest living here, with no way to pay taxes and be fully legal (even if they want to), while feeding off of their country's welfare system and contributing nothing at all to Thailand (apart from spending money, same as the people they so easily condemn). I assume that is quite a lot of people. At least the "digital pikeys", as they so easily and derogatorily label them, make money from their own work.

Edited July 29, 2019 by bergan
you changed to them. General and not personal

[balo]

15 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Factually wrong. 

 

If you have passive income from a non Thai source this would be correct, if you have to work for that income, you are working while physically inside the kingdom, a per a physical presence test, and you need a work permit and owe income taxes from day 1.

No you don't , and we have discussed this to death in several threads.  

If anyone send an e-mail to a business friend, or talk to him on Skype about a business outside Thailand, according to you its work. 
It will never be a problem, and you know it. 

[PingRoundTheWorld]

4 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

You dont get to tell countries what laws you want to obey and what laws you dont.  

Nonsense. Many countries have treaties to prevent double taxation, if you're paying taxes in one country for income derived and paid in it and they have a tax treaty with Thailand you are breaking zero laws.

[bergan]

4 minutes ago, balo said:

No you don't , and we have discussed this to death in several threads.  

If anyone send an e-mail to a business friend, or talk to him on Skype about a business outside Thailand, according to you its work. 
It will never be a problem, and you know it. 

A hush-hush system, instead of legalizing and taxating it, making it legal to work here for people with legal means.

Edited July 29, 2019 by bergan

[sunnyboy2018]

18 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

Me too, there are a lot of jealous dinosaurs on this forum who had a slog away for 50 years and hate to see young blokes enjoying themselves here.

I know in my local community there are quite a few who are envious of me & over the years have said so to my face. 

I just laugh at them and their BP goes through the roof!

The world has changed with clouds all over the world, people can work remotely wherever they want to.

 

'Blokes'? Are all DMs male? 

[Mikisteel]

It would be interesting to see a bunch of nomads having a beer without a care in the world, much more pleasant than a bunch of old hasbeens anyway. 

 

No offence to old guys rocking a right mind but there are some you just know exactly the kind of barstool they are.

 

Dying breed these haggered lot anyway and no one is taking their place thank buddha

[gearbox]

6 minutes ago, bergan said:

I'd like to know how many people in this thread are living here on welfare from their home country, condemning people making an honest living here, with no way to pay taxes and be fully legal (even if they want to), while feeding off of their country's welfare system and contributing nothing at all to Thailand (apart from spending money, same as the people they so easily condemn). I assume that is quite a lot of people. At least the "digital pikeys", as they so easily and derogatorily label them, make money from their own work.

Heaps of people....e.g the Australian OAP is considered welfare, I think it is the same with the Canadian and UK state pensions. You hear things like "I paid taxes all my life",  but the amount of tax paid is usually low and there are other areas where the taxes are used like infrastructure, health and education. For a couple of years the Aussie taxpayers were getting a report showing what proportion of the tax paid is used for what. The largest chunk goes to age pensions.

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/BudgetReview201819/Welfare 

[elliss]

18 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

I remember the joy on this forum when Thailand started clamping on border runners, TR, ED visas etc

 

   Lets not forget the marriage visa scams . 

    Wife in village ..   555

 

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by elliss

[lkv]

10 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

I have no connection to iglu other than have considered running a couple of 1000 through them monthly to make me eligible for citizenship after 3 years. 

Don't take that risk, you will be stuck in the approval process. Junta does not encourage PR and citizenships.

 

 

10 hours ago, stephen tracy said:

Thanks for the link @Shoban. I'll take a look.

I will advise that the link provided is an agent (nothing wrong with that).

 

Now, as a pro tip, in some places in Malaysia, one can get a MM2H with much lower requirements, and reside anywhere they wish in Malaysia, but I prefer to share the link only in private for whoever is interested, since it's a bit offtopic anyways, and it's not an agent.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by lkv

[RAZZELL]

8 hours ago, ericthai said:

no way to get around it. Those you have seen are breaking the law and if caught will be punished. Over the years I've know many guys that work in bars, restaurants etc with no work permit and get away with it for years. 

Err...a French Manager in Chanel?

 

I believe they can get around it by using words like "consultant".

 

RAZZ

Edited July 30, 2019 by RAZZELL

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

Don't take that risk, you will be stuck in the approval process. Junta does not encourage PR and citizenships.

 

The Junta wont be here forever.. And at some stage I would value being at least eligible.. After 18 years, a little security for my place of residence as I get older would be preferred, citizenships usually cost money, I can live with the investment.

[LivinLOS]

7 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Nonsense. Many countries have treaties to prevent double taxation, if you're paying taxes in one country for income derived and paid in it and they have a tax treaty with Thailand you are breaking zero laws.

You dont understand how DTA agreements work.. 

If your paying taxes in Thailand, you claim the taxes charged in the tax base where you are not resident back. DTA agreements are not simply 'get out of jail' cards for not paying taxes in any other location, they allow a mechanism to claim taxes back, where your not living / working. 

Cross border labour supply is my business, this is what I do.. 

[LivinLOS]

8 hours ago, balo said:

No you don't , and we have discussed this to death in several threads.  

If anyone send an e-mail to a business friend, or talk to him on Skype about a business outside Thailand, according to you its work. 
It will never be a problem, and you know it. 

Your confusing not being caught, or a lack of will to enforce, with legality.. 

[LivinLOS]

8 hours ago, BananaBandit said:

 

By "domestic engagement" ...you mean that you have to be working on behalf of a business in Cambodia ?

 

Yes for absolute legality... But cambodia is even more loose than Thailand and B / working visas are available for the purchase of them (much like B's were here 10 years ago). 

 

Its not making it legal, its just even less enforcement. 

Thats the results of research I did about getting a freelance work permit in Cambo, at least 4 or 5 years ago, could have changed. Remember Thailand used to offer freelancer work permits under the M category media visa, something that would be perfect for modern bloggers and publishers, but they choose not to offer this any longer. When Thailand is clearly aware of the category, and makes a purposeful choice to not offer a suitable visa class, kind of goes against the 'they know and want us here' story. 

[LivinLOS]

8 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

So you would waste your time (and taxpayer money) going after a guy who's already paying taxes in America and therefore is protected by US-Thai treaties preventing double taxation? Good job there Mr Wannabe-tax-man.

Again thats not how it works. 

 

Firstly the taxes due on work done in Thailand is due to the Thais from day 1.. This then in turn is covered by the foreign earned income exclusion from the USA, so that taxes are not paid twice until over 105k and then after that REFUNDS are possible once proven tax returns and proof of payment are provided. DTA agreements do not prevent someone paying twice, they enable people who may pay twice, to claim it back AFTER tax returns are provided in both member states and proof of tax payment is shown. I routinely have contracted staff who need to do this process. 

Secondly, Thailand is more concerned with inward investment and knowledge transfer than direct income taxation, this is why they want offices, employment (and hopefully training) of local staff etc etc.. They have every right to make those demands, and nomads have every right to comply or move on. Its entirely a free market. 

[LivinLOS]

8 hours ago, bergan said:

My point is that this translator would not even be able to work permanently from Thailand, pay taxes and stay legally. He or she would be a criminal according to their laws, while it would be possible to make a visa available and let that person pay taxes. Do you seriously think the laws in this country accommodates that? They don't.

I think your making way too much of the requirements.. When I had a discussion on the subject, my impression was all they would need to be would introduce 'technical translator' or 'translator of digital formats' etc to create a tech job from the one you mention. If I bump into anyone I know from there I will ask again. 

[Shoban]

13 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

That only solves the visa.. Last I looked into it Malaysia was similar to Thailand in how it handled needing a local employer for non national to work incountry. 

I am not aware of any umbrella like systems for Malaysia either. 

No not exactly, under the Malaysia My Second Home scheme you can run your own business. You only cannot be employed in the country.

 

Digital businesses are a grey area. You can very well register your own company and pretty much sit in a cafe all day, it's a grey area that is being exploited. I know a couple Swiss, British and Americans running their businesses this way out of Penang and Kuala Lumpur.

 

Anyway check out www.movetomalaysia.co.uk for the details. There is a minimum amount of liquid assets to prove though, which is why it may look like a retirement programme, but I have met some people in early 30s with enough cash so you never really know sometimes... I also have a brochure I will try attaching it to this post.

MM2H Brochure US v2.pdf

[KKr]

On 7/28/2019 at 11:08 PM, amykat said:

a retired person who brings in their money and just spends it

Retirement income is usually taxed at source.

A different scenario from remuneration for current activities.

[Falconator]

9 hours ago, vinniekintana said:

OP...You shouldn't be asking this question in the first place

Just set up shop anywhere with a friendly visa regime.

 

In practice, that is what I am asking.

 

Where are the friendly visa regimes?

[Shoban]

Here's one of the notable nomads living in Malaysia. He is here under the MM2H scheme which he acknowledges in the comment section

 

 

[Falconator]

How feasible is it to do visa runs via AirAsia every 3 months in and out of Malaysia?

MM2H requires $120,000 USD in a Malaysian bank account, dominated in ringgit. It's not a good currency to save in given that the ringgit has been devaluating a lot over the years.

[digbeth]

Declare your income and start paying Thai tax, you can register a company, give yourself a work permit and even buy houses if you're creative enough. but then you'd no longer be a nomad, but a resident. For people holidaying, I don't think the authorities would mind if they crack open their laptop in a coffee shop or co-working space. 

 

But if you want to choose Thailand as your base, then yes, the authorities can't quite pigeonhole you into their category. Learning Thai whille you're at it.

 

I doubt we'll see any crack down and work permit/visa check on the big co-working space anytime though, white people working away on computers is probably very low on the Thai authorities' list of undesirable

[ericthai]

12 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

Err...a French Manager in Chanel?

 

I believe they can get around it by using words like "consultant".

 

RAZZ

cant get around it, an expat can be a manager / consultant / specialist etc and will need a work permit. However, even with the work permit there are limitations to only do the job(s) listed in the work permit. If they are manager and caught loading a truck, or handling sales they can get in trouble. 

 

We've had the labor department show up at our office and factory to check on us expats. They check our work permit, ask employees questions as to what we do etc.  

[RAZZELL]

On 7/30/2019 at 8:48 PM, ericthai said:

cant get around it, an expat can be a manager / consultant / specialist etc and will need a work permit. However, even with the work permit there are limitations to only do the job(s) listed in the work permit. If they are manager and caught loading a truck, or handling sales they can get in trouble. 

 

We've had the labor department show up at our office and factory to check on us expats. They check our work permit, ask employees questions as to what we do etc.  

 

Well, there's a "farang" working at a posh coffee shop in ICONSIAM so there must be a way.

 

RAZZ

[ericthai]

14 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

 

Well, there's a "farang" working at a posh coffee shop in ICONSIAM so there must be a way.

 

RAZZ

His he a manager? He might also be considered a specialists, but if he is working the register, waiting tables then that's not legal. As I said just because he is working there doesn't mean he is legal. Over the years I've seen guys sell stuff on the side of the road, run bars. tour group etc without work permits, not legal but they are doing it. Most of the time the cops ignore things, but if a Thai person complains shit happens.