Thailand VS Vietnam? Which one will be better in 5yrs?

[TPI]

You've got to be kidding! BKK over HCMP 55555555! VN is just sooo much better!

[newnative]

   Can you own a condo in Vietnam in your name as a foreigner?  I thought that wasn't allowed but maybe it has changed.  I always have to own.

[NanLaew]

13 hours ago, madmen said:

And this loose visa policy will get tight soon enough don't worry about that, probably straight after all the cheap charlie no 800k Thai expats mass migrate. Only a matter of time really

Vietnam did a major rejig of their visa policy and structure in 2014. Generally it introduced more controls on those working legally there. Outside of ASEAN member state visitors, in subsequent years they've expanded the visa-on-arrival scheme to allow visitors of several nationalities visa-exempt entry (proof of return ticket required by airline and inbound immigration). This has enabled a lot of those looking for a viable, regional alternative to Thailand ample opportunity to check multiple venues. I would hope that Vietnam immigration would continue to be pro-active in their immigration law changes and enforcement versus Thailand's years of laxity that, in conjunction with lack of oversight by (among others) the Department of Education and the complete misunderstanding of the tourist market by TAT, has brought them to this current, knee-jerk reaction.

 

My observations over several years working in and traveling around Vietnam, they also suffered from hordes of bucket tour Russians and bargain basement Chinese groups, especially in their primary beach vacation destinations. More recently, there's been a moderation of both that indicates a quieter, more mature, more family oriented Russian and Chinese tourist demographic.

[Curmudgeonly59]

7 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

Some may say VN is better now but who knows in 5 years that will be the case?

Correct - but as there's a hypothetical question in the original post and the quote uses the present tense, I concur with the quote.  Five years from now? All bets are off. Regardless; present or future, it all depends on what the person wants:

 

English levels?

VN is better by far, mainly because of an effective education system and the employment of qualified native speakers to teach English. Thailand constantly amazes with its consistently rock bottom E levels.

Food?

Close call but VN, mainly because of the health factor (less oil & fat in the cooking) and price.

Work?

VN wins. Why? Work ethic - as in... the Vietnamese have one.

Interpersonal visuals?

Obviously personal opinion but VN by far, except for the dental situation.

Traffic?

Both places horrendous but in different ways. Taxis? Jump in a cab in HCMC or other major cities and they just switch on the meter and go - no whining, snivelling, wheedling and bargaining. But noise levels in Vietnam are cacophonous, so Thailand wins.

Cost of living?

Simple: VN wins - it's cheaper than Thailand.

World view?

VN wins by far - they've learned the hard way. Even reasonably well educated Thais will often become quite threatened when trying to locate given countries on a world map. 

 

So, a hypothetical five years from now? Thailand. Why? Rate of development in VN makes it too unpredictable. But get in to real estate now, if that's your need, before the Koreans & Chinese buy everything.

 

 

[yimlitnoy]

13 hours ago, SteveK said:

How many old black men or old white women are ex-pats in Thailand?

 

I'm not saying that old white guys are cancer. I'm saying that they are seen as a cancer by governments such as Thailand's, hence all the effort to force them out. Please read my post before posting stupid comments.

Very unplaisant is his norm, when they go low we go high! 

[ronaldo0]

From being in da nang and hoi an and looking at the roads, airports, service ,beaches ,politeness ,price and cleanliness of everything I would say 5 years time Thailand will still be spouting lies about tourist numbers and trying to work out where everyone went !!

[Kurtf]

Thailand is ruled by a dictatorship irrespective of what they try to sell you as a democracy. VN is a communist country. So take your pick. If I had a choice I think I’d pick VN where my money would go farther. Thailand has made it painfully obvious to the most casual observer that they do not want farangs and I don’t want to live where I am not wanted or appreciated for how much I contribute to the society.

[Curmudgeonly59]

49 minutes ago, newnative said:

   Can you own a condo in Vietnam in your name as a foreigner?  I thought that wasn't allowed but maybe it has changed.  I always have to own.

Yes you can. Restrictions but easy to research.

[canuckamuck]

Obviously one country is steadily improving, and the other is stumbling over its own greed and making everything worse in the race to fill their pockets. In 5 years and people will feel sorry for the Thai expats.

[Curmudgeonly59]

1 hour ago, brokenbone said:

or if i can reliably lay down and wait for death without anyone disturbing

That's a problem - VN is the noisier of two inherently noisy countries. If simply waiting for death, I'd plump for a soundproof bunker in Thailand, next to a 90 day reporting facility. 

[phkauf]

17 minutes ago, Kurtf said:

Thailand is ruled by a dictatorship irrespective of what they try to sell you as a democracy. VN is a communist country. So take your pick. If I had a choice I think I’d pick VN where my money would go farther. Thailand has made it painfully obvious to the most casual observer that they do not want farangs and I don’t want to live where I am not wanted or appreciated for how much I contribute to the society.

I can see the VN communist system going away in time - the country is very young and many of the old "true believers" are dying off at a rapid clip. Talk with anyone under the age of 30 (which is half the country) and you will hear utter disdain for the communist system. Unlike China, the internet is open and free so people are able to see what is really going on in the world outside and they desire the same things. Things will change as Hemingway said "Gradually, and then suddenly".

Thailand ain't changing. The military and the elites will see to that as they have since the 1930's.

[CNXexpat]

3 hours ago, jessebkk1 said:

There are still not that many foreigners in Vietnam but it's slowing building up.

In March Hanoi was full of foreigners. Not less than in Chiang Mai.

[Fairynuff]

28 minutes ago, phkauf said:

Unlike China, the internet is open and free

That’s not entirely true, there are fewer restrictions than China for sure but still there are restrictions.

[CNXexpat]

1 hour ago, Curmudgeonly59 said:

Cost of living?

Simple: VN wins - it's cheaper than Thailand.

I don´t think that the prices of food (except alcohol) are lower than in Thailand (Chiang Mai). But what´s really expensive is to rent a nice house - minimum the double of the price I would pay in Chiang Mai.

[Fairynuff]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Outside of ASEAN member state visitors, in subsequent years they've expanded the visa-on-arrival scheme to allow visitors of several nationalities visa-exempt entry (proof of return ticket required by airline and inbound immigration).

Since the visa exemption we visit VN much more and always less than 15 days. It’s great that Vietnam recognises the benefits of this policy. I’m always asked at immigration if I have a visa and how long  I’m staying but never been asked to show a return ticket. I’m also often greeted with a smile.

[HeyHeyHey]

1 minute ago, CNXexpat said:

I don´t think that the prices of food (except alcohol) are lower than in Thailand (Chiang Mai). But what´s really expensive is to rent a nice house - minimum the double of the price I would pay in Chiang Mai.

Food is cheaper overall, if you exclude the lowest level sugar and oil infused street food.

 

Where can you get a hot plate beef steak with an egg and awesome banh mi for 55 THB in Thailand?

 

I also love the fresh veggies which you get a basket with almost every meal.

 

Yes VN doesn't have so many modern houses/condos yet. But shouldn't compare it with CM which is overbuild crap city in the middle of nowhere with toxic air 3-4 months a year.

[gamesgplayemail]

And how is weed there ?! Easily available ?

 

 

[4MyEgo]

On 7/31/2019 at 3:55 PM, 3421abc said:

This constant need to report where you are gives me a feeling the government sees me as guilty until proven otherwise.

Look, it is what it is, governments all around the world change goal posts, it's a matter of keeping your mindset in control and not allowing your emotions/feelings to take over.

 

I don't think any foreigner in any country really feels welcome, think of foreigners back in your homeland, do you think they feel welcome/guilty ? We all have a right to be here, be it Thailand or elsewhere, providing we comply with the rules.

 

If the government doesn't want us here, they will let us know, I think all the changes have come about because of the lax regulations being enforced and then all of a sudden Thailand was a soft target with heaps of farangs here on expired visas, extensions not renewed, etc, etc, etc, so they are doing what other countries have always done, tightened the noose.

 

If you have nothing to hide, have your papers in order, just keep complying, your one of us, just keep doing the right thing.

 

I am off overseas for a 3 week trip soon, and I have to fill in a TM.30 when I get back I think, so it's another form, the 90 days can be done on line I am told or by EMS, but I still do the hour 20 drive and make it a day out with the Mrs, nothing is too hard if you think about it.

 

There are many things here that irk me, and the way I see it instead of getting angry or frustrated is to see it for what it is and say, hey, you have a choice, leave or stay, and if you stay, shut up and put up, if you can't, then leave, and of late, I have been looking at it like this, today I was pi$$ed off by this and that, it took up 5 minutes of my mind space and shook my emotions, I took control of my mindset and relaxed my emotions, tomorrow will be another day, I just have to remember to handle it as I would any issue back home, nowhere is perfect, we just have to acknowledge that in our heads and stops running away, well at least try ????

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[ThomasThBKK]

13 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

I have been in Hanoi this March for a week. The food is good but what they call spicy is a joke. The people are friendly and speak mostly good English. No dual pricing for foreigners. What really annoyed me and made me happy to come back to Thailand is the noisy traffic - beep beep everywhere and always. Could not live there. I´ve heard from other people, that Hanoi is the loudest city but don´t know if it´s true. 

 

Because I am curious I checked some real estate FB groups for nice houses like mine to rent or buy in or around Da Nang. The prices are minimum double than in Chiang Mai. 

 

Vietnamese people are called diligent and with their good English I can imagine that the country will become very successful in the near future. If the people become less selfish in the future, I guess Vietnam will become a good place for companies. Another plus: beer is cheap - but the people like to drink smoothies. So nice to see young people sitting in bars beside the street, talking and having fun without alcohol. 

 

No, it's absolutely a horrible place for foreign business, as every other communist country too. 

 

3 hours ago, phkauf said:

Personally I think Vietnam is already ahead of Thailand in many ways. Although Thailand is more modern in some sense, often it's done half-assed and doesn't work well - city planning (or the lack thereof) for example. The main international airports in Vietnam (Hanoi, Saigon and Da Nang) are smaller than BKK, but work quite well and Vietnam Airlines is expanding with service far better than Thai Airways.

The people are great, much in the same way most Thais are, but I feel they are more genuine in their friendship. Yeah there are tourist scams, but that's a worldwide problem. 

Food is a push - both are fantastic. Although cheaper in Vietnam, with better options for Western food in my opinion.

The Vietnamese are hard working, industrious, resourceful people. Thais, let's just say, not so much. The Viet government is a Socialist controlling mess, but seems to be hands off as long as you don't cross the line. The Thai government is a controlling mess that continually screws with you and makes things difficult. Healthcare in Vietnam is scary, so Thailand wins on that front.

Vietnam is also much more open to foreigners and foreign business, it is becoming a good second option to China. 

Vietnam is moving forward at a rapid pace - Thailand is in reverse in fifth gear!

 

There are so many negatives about Vietnam...

 

1) The airports work currently because they have FAR LESS visitors

2) There's definitely less Western Food options and Bangkok is prolly one of the best if not the best city in the world for foodies, from street food over thai restaurants to michelin star places. Nothing anywhere close like that in HMC.

3) The VN government is FAR MORE RESTRICTIVE. Say the wrong thing and you don't get a police visit like Andrew, you vanish from earth.

   Facebook and co are severaly restricted in VN for a reason, Internet generally sucks compared to LOS.

4) VN has WORLDWIDE TAXES ON ALL YOUR INCOME, if they suspect you of dodging taxes you cannot leave the country anymore!! have fun getting out of that mess: https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/vietnam-income-tax.html

Quote

Residents in Vietnam have to pay tax on their worldwide income at progressive tax rates. Therefore, salary earned from working abroad is taxable in Vietnam.

 

Quote

The employee’s tax finalisation return for the income earned up to the termination of employment contract date must be filed within 45 days after his departure. A foreigner who fails to settle their personal income tax liability could be prevented from leaving the country. In addition, any tax shortfall per the tax finalisation return should be settled by the same deadline.

 

 

5) VIETNAM has the SAME TM30 crap we have here, it's just called different, it's called Article 33 and police visits there are far more likely if you don't do it!! It's the same like here, responsibility of the landlord but the police rips of the foreigners

Quote

To answer your second question, as a foreigner who is permitted to stay in Vietnam for a limited period of time, Article 33 on the Law on Entry, Exit, Transit and Residence of Foreigners in Vietnam does indeed require you to register your residence. The same Article states that it is the responsibility of your landlord to fill out the relevant declaration form and to submit it to the local police authority in the ward where you live. That is why when you check into a hotel in Vietnam, the staff will always ask to see your passport for exactly the same reason.

...

Applying Vietnamese law into actual practice is a different matter. Approach your landlord with what you have just learned and see whether he is now more willing to cooperate. If things go well, you may find that convincing the local police is not as difficult as you may think and your registration will become smoother.

In areas where many foreigners live, the police are supposedly more accustomed to situations like yours and is often more willing to help. So if you find yourself dealing with a stubborn officer, consider moving to a more foreigner-friendly area of town, steering away from situations that may nip your love in the bud…

6) There's NO GOOD visa option at all except dodgy agent business visas. NO retirement visa, NO investment visas, NO Thai elite

7) Property ownership is severly more restricted in Vietnam than in Thailand, not even Vietnamese can OWN land. 

8. Scams, Robbery and Pickpockets, dual pricing, overpayment etc are rampart, worse than Thailand imo

9) Same air pollution problems we have here

10) Banking is super restricted, unlike Thailand, have fun getting your money out of VN

11) See above, stuff like Bitcoin which is totally legal and even regulated in Thailand is completly forbidden in Vietnam and can get you into Jail, just owning it

12) Weird laws, that don't allow you to stay with a girl that's still married to someone else, can result in serious issues: http://oivietnam.com/2015/10/is-marriage-a-legal-prerequisite-to-cohabitation/

Quote

Having said that, the same Law on Marriage and Family does clearly – and obviously – prohibit one from living together with a person who is already married, as well as the cohabitation as husband and wife between people of the same direct blood line, between relatives within three generations, between adoptive parent and adoptive child, et cetera.

13) Healthcare sucks

 

 

So maybe for poor people Vietnam is the place to be as it's cheaper, but everyone who's well off should stay in Thailand for now imo.

 

Grass is greener fallacy as someone else already pointed out ... I was interested in Vietnam too, but i found so many negatives and some of them like worldwide taxation would make it far more expensive to life there for me and that alone is totally not worth it.

[elgenon]

14 hours ago, SteveK said:

Hit a nerve?

I think you give yourself too much credit.

[4MyEgo]

15 hours ago, SteveK said:

Why, cuts too close to the bone?

If they didn't want us here, you wouldn't be here.

 

It's all in your head, we all have choices, i.e. comply to their regulations, or leave, simple really.

 

Paranoia will only bring you down, get a grip, you have a right to be here as much as anyone else, as long as you comply with their rules (not the ones you want), their country, not ours, it's not that difficult to fill in a few forms and have money in the bank, if you can't then it's a sad day for you, go to jail, do not collect $200 as the rules are in the game Monopoly.

 

No point in pi$$ing and moaning and groaning over something out of your control.

 

If they want our money, they are smart, if they don't like us, their prerogative, but I find most of them pleasant. There are races that I don't like, they keep it within themselves, as I do and no I am not anti Thai's, I left my country to get away from others, if I mention them I am a racist, so I do as the Thai's do, keep it within.

 

We all got to live in peace oi !

Edited August 1, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[drbeach]

Cars are not going to get any cheaper in Vietnam. Doesn't matter if it's a result of a free trade deal or not. They'll just use non-tariff barriers to raise the cost. Already Vietnamese car prices are among the highest in the world, and significantly higher than in already expensive Thailand. Driving a car in Vietnam is seen as a privilege for the rich. Just last year, I was informed by my friend that the government there became concerned about what it called a "large number" of "cheap" pickup trucks, mostly imported from Thailand, which is the pickup truck manufacturing hub in the region. In response, the government has decided to whack on a 30% tax increase.

 

Vietnam's infrastructure is still hopelessly inadequate and driving a car there is way more challenging than in Thailand. Parking is quite difficult for cars in downtown city areas - the government is actively discouraging both car ownership and parking spaces. Unlike in Thailand, where even in downtown Bangkok you can find either a back street for parking (or even some main roads, outside of peak periods) or any number of hotel or shopping mall car parks, in HCMC, many of the streets are too narrow for cars and widespread, easy parking is only feasible in some of the newer suburbs, not in the city.

 

So if you can live without a car, and hop on a motorcycle then Vietnam may be the place for you.

 

Personally, what I see happening over the next 5 years is both countries will see improved infrastructure. Both Bangkok and Vietnamese cities like Ho Chi Minh and Hanoi will have more railway lines. Thailand will have at least 3 new expressways open by then - the one to Korat, the one to Kanchanaburi and the extension from Pattaya to Rayong. By then I would also expect ground to have been broken on further projects, such as the Nakorn Pathom to Cha-am expressway, potentially the Rama 2 one as well, also the Hat Yai to Sadao expressway and a number of others. The HSR from Kunming via Boten and Vientiane will likely be at least partially completed on the Thai side, with the Bangkok-Nakorn Ratchasima section being first.

 

In Vietnam there should be an extension to the 54km expressway to the east of the city, which also passes by the proposed new international airport, Long Thanh, with improvements to other main highways such as the complete duplification to 4-lanes of the 1700km long north-south highway between Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, which is already more than halfway complete.

 

Visa rules - it's anyone's guess but mine is that tourist visas and exemptions will be more heavily scrutinized in both countries. Long-term tourists will not be welcome in Thailand unless they are high-net worth individuals and arrive on a METV (which by then could perhaps be valid for 12 months) but for those with money there may be other attractive visa options made available. Vietnam will probably introduce better visa options and start cracking down on perpetual tourists too, but in 2024 they will probably only be where Thailand was back in 2008, meaning they may tolerate people living on tourist visas for a few months, but not for years as is currently the case (and was the case in Thailand until 10-15 years ago).

Edited August 1, 2019 by drbeach

[CNXexpat]

12 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

dual pricing, overpayment etc are rampart, worse than Thailand imo

What I saw in Hanoi was, that all pay the same at tourist attractions.

 

25 minutes ago, HeyHeyHey said:

But shouldn't compare it with CM which is overbuild crap city in the middle of nowhere with toxic air 3-4 months a year.

Do you only have been in Old Town? I live 20 minutes from the city Center away in a modern bungalow beside a lake in quiet nature, but still in Chiang Mai. What means "in the middle of nowhere"? Because there is no other big city nearby? Because it´s surrounded from beautiful nature? Which city in Vietnam isn´t in the middle of nowhere following your definition of Chiang Mai, where 1 mio. people are living?

When I was in Hanoi last March the air was minimal better than in Chiang Mai, but also very bad. 

 

[drbeach]

21 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

No, it's absolutely a horrible place for foreign business, as every other communist country too. 

 

 

There are so many negatives about Vietnam...

 

1) The airports work currently because they have FAR LESS visitors

2) There's definitely less Western Food options and Bangkok is prolly one of the best if not the best city in the world for foodies, from street food over thai restaurants to michelin star places. Nothing anywhere close like that in HMC.

3) The VN government is FAR MORE RESTRICTIVE. Say the wrong thing and you don't get a police visit like Andrew, you vanish from earth.

   Facebook and co are severaly restricted in VN for a reason, Internet generally sucks compared to LOS.

4) VN has WORLDWIDE TAXES ON ALL YOUR INCOME, if they suspect you of dodging taxes you cannot leave the country anymore!! have fun getting out of that mess: https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/vietnam-income-tax.html

 

 

 

5) VIETNAM has the SAME TM30 crap we have here, it's just called different, it's called Article 33 and police visits there are far more likely if you don't do it!! It's the same like here, responsibility of the landlord but the police rips of the foreigners

6) There's NO GOOD visa option at all except dodgy agent business visas. NO retirement visa, NO investment visas, NO Thai elite

7) Property ownership is severly more restricted in Vietnam than in Thailand, not even Vietnamese can OWN land. 

8. Scams, Robbery and Pickpockets, dual pricing, overpayment etc are rampart, worse than Thailand imo

9) Same air pollution problems we have here

10) Banking is super restricted, unlike Thailand, have fun getting your money out of VN

11) See above, stuff like Bitcoin which is totally legal and even regulated in Thailand is completly forbidden in Vietnam and can get you into Jail, just owning it

12) Weird laws, that don't allow you to stay with a girl that's still married to someone else, can result in serious issues: http://oivietnam.com/2015/10/is-marriage-a-legal-prerequisite-to-cohabitation/

13) Healthcare sucks

 

 

So maybe for poor people Vietnam is the place to be as it's cheaper, but everyone who's well off should stay in Thailand for now imo.

 

Grass is greener fallacy as someone else already pointed out ... I was interested in Vietnam too, but i found so many negatives and some of them like worldwide taxation would make it far more expensive to life there for me and that alone is totally not worth it.

I agree with all this. Banking - very difficult to make a deposit into your own account in Vietnam. Dual pricing is worse than Thailand in unofficial ways - that is, food vendors and restaurants are somewhat more likely to overcharge foreigners.

 

However, government imposed dual pricing, which was very widespread until 2002, is now largely a thing of the past. There are still a few places that practice it (for example, the Imperial Palace in Hue and apparently one of the museums in Saigon) but it's rather uncommon when compared to Thailand's widespread practice of dual pricing at national parks, museums, temples and other tourist attractions (such as water parks). In some of the latter, expats should be able to receive the local price, but rarely at national parks anymore, except smaller, less visited ones. I am not aware of there being any dual pricing policy at Vietnamese national parks, but as I have only kinda driven past them and never properly entered any, I can't really say.

[Beggar]

16 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

VN has WORLDWIDE TAXES ON ALL YOUR INCOME, if they suspect you of dodging taxes you cannot leave the country anymore!! have fun getting out of that mess: https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/vietnam-income-tax.html

You just have destroyed my dream :-((( but I am grateful for this. So I would need at least 2 countries to avoid to stay too many days in Vietnam. What also worries my is the Agent Orange that the US used there during the war. A lot of food might be/is not very healthy because of this. 

[thecyclist]

3 hours ago, chrissables said:

Crossing the road is far easier in Vietnam........IF you do as the locals do. Step onto the road while looking at the traffic and walk slowly and deliberately across the road, the traffic will avoid you. Unnerving at first, but it does work. I would not try that in Thailand!  

Yes, that is the way a lot of locals cross a road, a very risky and scary option.I live in a medium-sized city in Vietnam now, and hardly an hour goes by without hearing an ambulance siren. 9000 road fatalities per year in Vietnam, significantly lower than Thailand, but still frighteningly high. 

The constant, most of the time completely unnecessary, beep beep is a pain in the neck. 

So in both countries the traffic is in different ways a mess. What's different is that when you fly into rage over some maniac cutting you off in a dangerous way, the Vietnamese just smile at you, while a lot of Thais well  rage and swear back at you, something which can easily get physically. It's all about face in Thailand, and being yelled at by a farang khee nok is about as great as a loss of face can get. 

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, sanemax said:

Old white men, with money or without, are seen as a cancer to most Asian nations. When are people going to realise this? Once Thailand uses chemotherapy to remove the cancer, it spreads to Vietnam. They don't want you either and it's only a matter of time until they develop the radiotherapy required to force you out also. It's a sad way of looking at things but it's the truth. These countries want your money, but they don't want you in any way, shape or form. The lovely little thing you married only wants the cash also, so the quicker you kick the bucket the better for everyone involved.

 

What an unpleasant thing to post , may get deleted 

I tend to think he is right, when it comes to Thailand. Old or young, they just do not seem to want white tourists, or white ex-pats. White means western. Their xenophobia, and racism has really ratcheted itself up a few notches lately. I am not referring to most Thai people. I think alot like us, or at the minimum, are indifferent to us. I am referring to the administration, and most government workers, who are getting indoctrinated by the hyperbolic and extremely ignorant nonsense coming from the top. 

 

I am not sure this relates to "most Asian nations". But, it is true here in Thailand, unfortunately. 

[Curmudgeonly59]

32 minutes ago, gamesgplayemail said:

And how is weed there ?! Easily available ?

So I'm led to believe - not that I indulge of course, along with vaping, vape shops, cheaper cigarettes and readily available NRT products at a fraction of the cost in Thailand, should a person wish to stop completely - in five years time, or indeed of course right now.

[singking]

I apologise if my thoughts were offensive, but people should be more open-minded about things. Thailand is now very xenophobic. To ignore this would be a bit foolish.

The biggest problem with a quite a lot of male tourists over the last 40+ years or so has been the lack of basic respect toward the culture of their chosen destination and predominantly their personal lack of education in life. Cheap airfares has seen a proliferation of what we call in Australia “bogans”. Americans call them “rednecks” and I’m sure most countries have some sort of derogatory moniker for this type of individual. They are abusive, ignorant, can’t handle their alcohol, flaunt local laws and basically embarrass their fellow countrymen. It is these individuals who ruin it for everyone else irrespective of which country. Unfortunately they vote too.

[thecyclist]

1 hour ago, phkauf said:

I can see the VN communist system going away in time - the country is very young and many of the old "true believers" are dying off at a rapid clip. Talk with anyone under the age of 30 (which is half the country) and you will hear utter disdain for the communist system. Unlike China, the internet is open and free so people are able to see what is really going on in the world outside and they desire the same things. Things will change as Hemingway said "Gradually, and then suddenly".

Thailand ain't changing. The military and the elites will see to that as they have since the 1930's.

Politics is a taboo topic in Vietnam. It is rarely discussed. When you ask Vietnamese why, they put there wrists together (Handcuffs). Their disdain for the regime might be indirectly expressed by their fascination of everything American, and in South Vietnam by their dislike of northerners(the regime is after all northern) 

Mostly, they are simply not interested in and knowledgeable about politics :They can't change anything, so they have given up on it.