Are big bikes worth it?

[smedly]

7 minutes ago, Percy P said:

Like no wearing a safety helmet or safety belt in the car.

doesn't kill or injure other people 

 

These do

 

Drunk Driving - speeding - going through red light - driving wrong way - using a phone - unsafe loads - poorly serviced vehicles …………………….the list is endless 

[Dene16]

4 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

If one wants to do "touring" in Thailand and better avoid an early death one should rent a car or, better yet, take the bus. These spectacular crashes we've been seeing are not done with "touring" bikes but with racing bikes that don't strike me as being the best tour bikes such as the Honda Gold Wing, for example

When we all started riding bikes,for most of us anyway, we started off on smaller bikes on good roads and where the majority of people had good road sense. Over time we to gained the experience to ride bigger bikes.

No amount of track days will give you that expierience

Unfortunately that is not the option here and many will die before that happens

Riding a 'honda gold wing' (bath tub) will never be an option for me and many others, who i would call, true bikers. (sorry harley riders just my opinion)

I've had a few scares but only due to cars not seeing me, the stopping power of big bikes are amazing these days

If you've never ridden a big bike your opinion accounts for nothing because you haven't lived (i don't mean that in a derogatory manner)

We all know that whether you are driving/riding we have to be 5x more aware of whats happening around us and the biggest danger is the soi dogs imo

 

[Percy P]

5 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

If one wants to do "touring" in Thailand and better avoid an early death one should rent a car or, better yet, take the bus. These spectacular crashes we've been seeing are not done with "touring" bikes but with racing bikes that don't strike me as being the best tour bikes such as the Honda Gold Wing, for example.

 

 

If you haven't toured on a MC you wouldn't know. If you do long distance touring a Good Wing  is perfect.

[Jimdandy]

Why not just cut to the chase and go straight to a Harley 1000 CC, or BMW? 

[Percy P]

5 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

If one wants to do "touring" in Thailand and better avoid an early death one should rent a car or, better yet, take the bus. These spectacular crashes we've been seeing are not done with "touring" bikes but with racing bikes that don't strike me as being the best tour bikes such as the Honda Gold Wing, for example.

 

 

I've been MC for 60 years but would not ride or drive in Thailand.

[MaxYakov]

5 minutes ago, Dene16 said:

When we all started riding bikes,for most of us anyway, we started off on smaller bikes on good roads and where the majority of people had good road sense. Over time we to gained the experience to ride bigger bikes.

No amount of track days will give you that expierience

Unfortunately that is not the option here and many will die before that happens

Riding a 'honda gold wing' (bath tub) will never be an option for me and many others, who i would call, true bikers. (sorry harley riders just my opinion)

I've had a few scares but only due to cars not seeing me, the stopping power of big bikes are amazing these days

If you've never ridden a big bike your opinion accounts for nothing because you haven't lived (i don't mean that in a derogatory manner)

We all know that whether you are driving/riding we have to be 5x more aware of whats happening around us and the biggest danger is the soi dogs imo

 

"If you've never ridden a big bike your opinion accounts for nothing because you haven't lived (i don't mean that in a derogatory manner)"

 

Nominated by me for the Quote of the Month (if not the Year/Decade/Century) Award 

I guess I have an "unaccountable opinion" then (I don't mean that in a derogatory manner, of course)

[JAFO]

In the end motorcycles are dangerous when mixing with cars and lack of experience. I have a "Big Bike" as they call them here and few Honda Waves. Riding either, one has to pay attention. The "Big Bike" wrecks that seem to make the news on TVF are always about some foreigner and seems to be in or near the Pattaya or Phuket area. IMHO Thailand should not be allowed to rent "Big Bikes" to tourists whether licensed in their home country or not. Riding here is significantly different then riding from say the states (where I am from) thus it takes time to adapt to the organized chaos. Hopping on a big CC bike and think they can behave the same way leads to wrecks and deaths. 

 

Thailand has a challenge in front of it as more people are making money and buying scooters, big bikes and cars now. The infrastructure, road laws and controls are just not in place to improve it. 

 

As for "Big Bikes" and are they worth it. Guess it depends on your POV. If you have disposable income and want to go ride some beautiful roads in Northern Thailand then YES they are worth it. I really enjoy it. Scooters are for local transportation.

 

 

 

 

[bmwrr1000]

I think the main problem here is the mentality and skills of thai drivers,and some farangs
Who rent big bikes and have n.ever owned on,
The minimum age for a big bike licence should be 21 years old,
I now ride an aero 155 and every time you ride you’re faced with the utter stupidity of other riders,red lights are just a pretty colour to thais also and generally totally ignored,
I progressed from having a small bike in my teenage years to big bikes later on,I’ve had the best of big bikes and lots of experience,and also have seen friends die from differing reasons,the worst being an employee who decided to take my gsx 1100 for a joy ride,lost control due to no experience on a big bike,
The cops here do nothing for safety and only collecting money,most have no licenses,
No helmets and the list goes on,
If no licence,confiscate the vehicle,same no helmets,
Boy racers with souped up fart boxes racing down the pra’s it and other roads,no helmets, no licence etc, sieze and crush the bikes,
But nothing will change their superior mentality and lack of respect for law,


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[digbeth]

I've done sportsbike and touring, unless Thailand got rid of the rules preventing bikes on bridges, expressway and motorways, big bikes aren't worth it.

Granted it's only affect getting out of Bangkok mostly toward the south and east like Pattaya and beyond. The non-expressway/motorway route towards Pattaya is atrocious 

 

For riding around Bangkok, anything bigger than 250-300 cc you can't filter between cars and will be stuck behind trucks or bus billowing heat and smoke at you.

 

Even as a rider, I dread the day big bikes become legal on the expressway and motorways, there's enough idiots on the road, and even on road that bike are illegal on like the middle of Bangna or Vibhavadi, there's idiots on sportsbike weaving between already fast 90+kph moving cars. Big bikes shoudn't filter between moving cars on highway.

 

Even if big bikes become legal on motorways, for sportsbike anything bigger than 600 cc is pointless, there's not enough road with good surface to enjoy a 1000cc race replicas. out in the mountain with curvy roads you can enjoy, 1000cc will get you killed. big 1200+touring bike laded with luggage is okay for touring I guess. 

[soistalker]

3 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Yes, it is way too dangerous for someone that would sit on their bike waiting to be “creamed”.

Twenty years ago my girlfriend got mad and broke my cue. I’m never going to have another girlfriend or shoot pool again!

 

Is that why you switched to guys and katoeys then?

[HLover]

1 minute ago, soistalker said:

Is that why you switched to guys and katoeys then?

They don't play snooker?

[DualSportBiker]

I filter just fine on a 650cc and ride with so many others that do just fine thanks. Perhaps you are filtered by your own skill on a bike?

 

Few mature riders want to ride on expressways here, the pleasure of riding a bike is the twists, the views and the independence. These are not found on straight boring highways with large trucks and speeding minivans. I've ridden here for 28 years and only commuted for a few. Now I, like the many I ride with, only ride on weekends and on trips out of Bangkok.

 

Big bikes in Thailand are a wondrous thing; thousands of kilometers of mountainous roads with twists and rises and views of less-buggered countryside.

 

42 minutes ago, digbeth said:

I've done sportsbike and touring, unless Thailand got rid of the rules preventing bikes on bridges, expressway and motorways, big bikes aren't worth it.

Granted it's only affect getting out of Bangkok mostly toward the south and east like Pattaya and beyond. The non-expressway/motorway route towards Pattaya is atrocious 

 

For riding around Bangkok, anything bigger than 250-300 cc you can't filter between cars and will be stuck behind trucks or bus billowing heat and smoke at you.

 

Even as a rider, I dread the day big bikes become legal on the expressway and motorways, there's enough idiots on the road, and even on road that bike are illegal on like the middle of Bangna or Vibhavadi, there's idiots on sportsbike weaving between already fast 90+kph moving cars. Big bikes shoudn't filter between moving cars on highway.

 

Even if big bikes become legal on motorways, for sportsbike anything bigger than 600 cc is pointless, there's not enough road with good surface to enjoy a 1000cc race replicas. out in the mountain with curvy roads you can enjoy, 1000cc will get you killed. big 1200+touring bike laded with luggage is okay for touring I guess. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by DualSportBiker
grammar failure!

[Jack P]

The numbers of big bike riders are too small, they should focus on raiding rider standards overall.

 

Big bikes need to be ridden with respect for their higher performance and how quickly excess speed can lead to a problem. They really ought to be the preserve of more skilful and experienced riders. 

[sotsira]

6 hours ago, Worldplus said:

I Have a Kwasaki Z800..  I have had it for 6 years..  I ride it alot round Pattaya...  Only time I have dropped it was doing a u turn at walking pace and went down a <deleted> pothole..  Road conditions here are very bad.. 

 

Big bikes are much better than riding a 110CC bike.. They can stop quicker and get out of trouble quicker..

 

Its down to these idiots riding them at high speed and usually without a skid lid..  

 

I have ridden big bikes since I was 17..  Much prefer them than anything else..

For riding around Pattaya, a 125cc Honda Wave is more than

adequate, Sport bikes are designed for tracks with smooth

tarmac surfaces, not concrete potholed greasy surfaces that

are all over Thailand.

Hitting a small defect on a sport bike will unbalance it's 

geometry with more consequence than a 125cc Wave would.

Alternatively, heavier cruiser bikes would be a better fit for 

the Thai roads, but certainly not super sport bikes with racing

geometry settings designed for track use.

 

 

[malibukid]

7 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

 The number of deaths went up because the number of bad riders that switched from riding small bikes to big bikes went up.

Those people would have likely killed themselves on the small bikes, but since there were more big bikes available, they died on a big bike. The fault is not the bikes, but the missing sense of caution and culture of safety among the citizens. If they could just get a little more situational awareness, the deaths would go down substantially.

Maybe a big bike license would help, but I took the regular bike license here and it was a complete joke.

without enforcement it's all just words.  the Thai's can not learn to drive defensively.  situational awareness requires looking at the big picture and predictive planing, something the Thai's are not know for.

[DualSportBiker]

It's best to think before writing...

 

Thailand has always had a massively larger riding population than driving. The ratio of car to bike is changing as affluence increases, but it will be be a bike-riding society for years to come. Though I doubt much thought went into designing roads and junctions before the year 2000, bikes were not ignored or excluded.

 

Restricting big bikes to racetracks is a ridiculous idea. The accidents are not bike or engine-size driven, they are a result of scant skills, lax attitudes, poor policing, a general lack of a moral framework around road-use. Actually look at the stats. 88% of the accidents are small bikes. Should they be restricted to inside a gated community with speed bumps?

 

Bikes are as safe as the rider and the other users nearby. You can have a highly trained biker community and still have too many accidents from drivers who are reckless. Both rider and driver quality need improvement. Blaming or banning, a type of vehicle will only scratch the surface of the problem.

 

6 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

Big bikes should be restricted to racetracks. The ordinary motor vehicle infrastructure was not designed with them in mind. You don't see formula 1 cars on the roads very often. Big bikes are just splendid for dramatic, horrific demonstrations of suicide on ordinary roads.

[geronimo]

47 minutes ago, Jimdandy said:

Why not just cut to the chase and go straight to a Harley 1000 CC, or BMW? 

The scary thing is, at the moment they can!!!!

[DualSportBiker]

Take the bus? Thanks, but no thanks. I'll take my truck when not alone, but Thailand is too beautiful, scenic and exhilarating to hide from in a cage.

 

After 28 years of riding in Thailand I believe I speak from a modicum of experience. Riding here is only dangerous if you break simple the same rules that apply everywhere else. Don't:

 

• Ride at night
• Ride impaired
  • One drink is one too many
  • Tired
  • Ill, or on strong medication
  • Angry
• In anyone's blind spot
• Too fast to stop in the space you can see
• On another bike's line (when in a group)

There are special rules for Thailand

 

• Be careful near markets, especially early evening
• Be wary of vehicles in the early evening - often have had a sneaky bevvy before heading home
• Pay extra attention to vehicles pulling onto roads - widen your scan
• Triple check u-turns
• Be annoyingly bright and loud (horn is better than pipes)
• Watch out for dogs

 

The most fun and most satisfying times I have had here have been on a bike in the hills, exploring somewhere I've never been and riding in my limits.

 

6 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

If one wants to do "touring" in Thailand and better avoid an early death one should rent a car or, better yet, take the bus. These spectacular crashes we've been seeing are not done with "touring" bikes but with racing bikes that don't strike me as being the best tour bikes such as the Honda Gold Wing, for example.

 

 

[Isaanbiker]

“Riders should be required to take advance classes with hazard perception [taught using simulators] so they can learn to judge possible dangers,” he added. “Most importantly, we must strictly enforce regulations concerning legal age, driving licence testing method and speeding problems, as offenders are difficult to catch because the licence plate is usually hidden under the rear mudguard.”

 

  Why not starting at schools? At my school, the students have to wear a helmet, but only the driver while many teachers ride without one.

 

   The lack of education is causing so many deaths. Why not opening some driving schools with serious material by qualified instructors?

 

  But wait, they'd have to come from a foreign country. Nobody here is really qualified for anything. Well, perhaps a noodle soup cook. 

 

  

[samuttodd]

I've a "bigbike,"  although not by US Standards.   It is a 471cc Honda,  that I ride with a pillion and 2 sideboxes and a topbox.

 

3 things I've noticed is that in Thailand,  Vehicles will ride your bumper at highway speeds.   Literally 6 feet behind you at 60 mph.       You can not win this arguement no matter how persuasive you may be.   You have to get the hell out of their way and stay out of it.    Your life depends on it.     They do not realize that they can not stop in time to avoid a collision.

 

I am uncertain why they do not seem to be cognizant of this basic principle of physics.   They are nice folks,   but completely tuned out of reality while behind the wheel.    It is tragic and criminal when people get mowed down.

 

 

 

2 the chuck holes are terrible,  particulary on raised sections of pavement  (overpasses)  not sure why this is,  but it makes me damned certain to watch the behavior of the tires in front of mine and to give myself enough distance at speed to avoid them.

 

I rarely go over 90kph,  althouogh the bike could If I wanted to.    There just is nothing worth the danger.   Not on these roads.

 

 

I try to not be the first or last through intersections either.   Hedge your bet and go through with the rest of the gang.

 

 

It reminds me of a funny story my father told me.    He was a physician and did his residency at Good Sam in Portland back in early 1960's.    

    They had a welfare mom who'd given birth there 12 times over the course of 11 years,  and it was dad's turn to be there for delivery of #13.

 

He asked the gal,   "Thelma,  you've had a lot of kids,   do you even know who the father is of this one?"

    She grabbed my father by the wrist and exclamed,  "Doc,  when you backs into a buzzsaw,  you don't know what tooth done the cuttin"   

 

 

She aptly describes the situation of accidents arising on the roadways here.   Don't get cut.

 

[rabas]

4 minutes ago, DualSportBiker said:

• Ride at night
• Ride impaired
  • One drink is one too many
  • Tired
  • Ill, or on strong medication
  • Angry
• In anyone's blind spot
• Too fast to stop in the space you can see
• On another bike's line (when in a group)

 

There are special rules for Thailand

• Be careful near markets, especially early evening
• Be wary of vehicles in the early evening - often have had a sneaky bevvy before heading home
• Pay extra attention to vehicles pulling onto roads - widen your scan
• Triple check u-turns
• Be annoyingly bright and loud (horn is better than pipes)
• Watch out for dogs

 

.. and don't ever pass a Taxi on his left. Nothing will stop him shooting to the curb if a potential customer even moves a finger.

[spidermike007]

I rode big bikes most of my life. My last big bike was this beauty. Had it in the US. Loved driving it up in the hills, where I could let it scream. The problem with big bikes here, is where can you really open them up safely? I am not concerned about my own skills. I know what I can do. It is the other guy that scares me to death!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by spidermike007

[WeekendRaider]

to me this is another situation where in Thailand an issue is viewed too simplistic.

while I don't see why anything bigger than a Yamaha 300 XMAX is ever needed, except for the police... I also at the same time believe 125 CC scooters, they way they are used in Thailand, are too small.   that's from the view that most of the time all of these bikes should never have more than one rider, normally.  or only used very locally only.

Edited August 2, 2019 by WeekendRaider

[Isaanbiker]

7 minutes ago, samuttodd said:

I've a "bigbike,"  although not by US Standards.   It is a 471cc Honda,  that I ride with a pillion and 2 sideboxes and a topbox.

 

3 things I've noticed is that in Thailand,  Vehicles will ride your bumper at highway speeds.   Literally 6 feet behind you at 60 mph.       You can not win this arguement no matter how persuasive you may be.   You have to get the hell out of their way and stay out of it.    Your life depends on it.     They do not realize that they can not stop in time to avoid a collision.

 

I am uncertain why they do not seem to be cognizant of this basic principle of physics.   They are nice folks,   but completely tuned out of reality while behind the wheel.    It is tragic and criminal when people get mowed down.

 

 

 

2 the chuck holes are terrible,  particulary on raised sections of pavement  (overpasses)  not sure why this is,  but it makes me damned certain to watch the behavior of the tires in front of mine and to give myself enough distance at speed to avoid them.

 

I rarely go over 90kph,  althouogh the bike could If I wanted to.    There just is nothing worth the danger.   Not on these roads.

 

 

I try to not be the first or last through intersections either.   Hedge your bet and go through with the rest of the gang.

 

 

It reminds me of a funny story my father told me.    He was a physician and did his residency at Good Sam in Portland back in early 1960's.    

    They had a welfare mom who'd given birth there 12 times over the course of 11 years,  and it was dad's turn to be there for delivery of #13.

 

He asked the gal,   "Thelma,  you've had a lot of kids,   do you even know who the father is of this one?"

    She grabbed my father by the wrist and exclamed,  "Doc,  when you backs into a buzzsaw,  you don't know what tooth done the cuttin"   

 

 

She aptly describes the situation of accidents arising on the roadways here.   Don't get cut.

 

Sorry, but I'd fall asleep going 90 km/h.

[MaxYakov]

2 minutes ago, DualSportBiker said:

It's best to think before writing...

 

Thailand has always had a massively larger riding population than driving. The ratio of car to bike is changing as affluence increases, but it will be be a bike-riding society for years to come. Though I doubt much thought went into designing roads and junctions before the year 2000, bikes were not ignored or excluded.

 

Restricting big bikes to racetracks is a ridiculous idea. The accidents are not bike or engine-size driven, they are a result of scant skills, lax attitudes, poor policing, a general lack of a moral framework around road-use. Actually look at the stats. 88% of the accidents are small bikes. Should they be restricted to inside a gated community with speed bumps?

 

Bikes are as safe as the rider and the other users nearby. You can have a highly trained biker community and still have too many accidents from drivers who are reckless. Both rider and driver quality need improvement. Blaming or banning, a type of vehicle will only scratch the surface of the problem.

 

Oh yeah? Ridiculous idea, huh? I really don't care as long as innocent people aren't collateral damage and we don't have to listen to their noise pollution. The only way that this is going to happen is to take their toys away/restrict their use. BTW, this isn't just Thais operating in an uncivilized manner that belongs only on the racetrack.

 

For child safety, dangerous and obnoxious toys are taken away or used only with adult supervision. The behavior of a lot of the high-performance bike riders is childish. This childishness is a deeper issue which is too complicated for this particular thread.

 

Go to Rachada Phisek down a bit from the Asok intersection and listen to and watch the high-performance bike riders use it as a straightaway speedway 24/7 and I and others have to listen to their winding up their engines to the head bolts day and night.

 

Same thing on Sukhumvit from the Asok intersection to the west down to Soi 11 when they can get a clear shot in the fast lane.

 

To answer the question in the title. No, to me the "big bikes" (also, other high-performance motorbikes) in Thailand aren't worth the re-cycle value of the metal and plastic that go into them. It's unfortunate that the Thai economy and transportation system is deeply reliant on motorcycles in general, IMHO. Poor people have poor ways.

[Isaanbiker]

3 minutes ago, WeekendRaider said:

to me this is another situation where in Thailand an issue is pushed too far to both extremes.

I don't see why anything bigger than a Yamaha 300 XMAX is ever needed.  that's 290 CC something scooter.  except for the police.

but I also believe the 125 CC scooters, they way they are used in Thailand, are too small as well.   unless at most only one person is using it.  but hey, I'm a crazy farlang.  but 500 CC and bigger?  that's real crazy.     

People jump off airplanes with a parachute, some do free climbing without a rope. Etc.

 

And some people like me love the feeling of acceleration when you're already doing 150 km/h. 

 

 Would you make the same statement about cars? I love 12 cylinder BMW and Benz, but why do people need such "big cars"? 

 

    

[samuttodd]

Because of the sorry conditions of the pavement,  it'd be crazy to go faster unless you knew the roadway.    There are places near here that have 3 lanes of traffic on the hwy,  and then for 100 feet there will be 8 inch gashes that run through various patches of the approaching pavement.  

 

If you are really cookin through there, the cars in front of you will block from view the approaching road situation.

 

If you go balls out and blow through sections of roadway that are unfamiliar to you it is going to be a mighty short trip.

 

I can see going faster if the roads had sparse traffic and you knew where the rough spots were.

Edited August 2, 2019 by samuttodd

[Tops]

3 hours ago, The Preacher said:

 

Maybe there are some competent mechanics around,  I just haven't found any.  When I first came here, I was using the dealer shop until I realized how incompetent they were.  Just as an example, when I asked for "full service," I discovered that they did not even lubricate the brake, clutch and throttle cables.  I was shocked.  But that was years ago.  Now I expect incompetence.  I do my own work.

 

It is absolutely crazy to have these powerful bikes worked on by incompetents.  And most riders do not know any better than to trust them.  THAT can get you killed.

 

 

I am having my bikes maintained by real pros at 45K. Moto. 
They are located in Sutthisan, Bangkok. 

[bkk6060]

7 hours ago, smedly said:

what ?

 

totally lost me

 

you obviously don't understand the concept of law enforcement and effective policing especially on the roads - maybe you have some magic solution to make people obey the law - e.g.  you think people don't know what a red light means 

Sure you are lost.

Like I said, uneducated.

Seems to be just another meaningless cop bash post.

Education and engineer ing of the roadways are the biggest issues here.

 

Buy, let's take a look at a place with probably some of the most advanced professional police in the world the US.

Approx. 40,000 people died in traffic accidents last year and 4.5 million were seriously injured. So, the cops there are lazy, not enforcing the law or doing their job? Why aren't they stopping all this?

Yes, I do know about this, writing tickets is not going to change things here until they start educating people at a very young age.

Unless, you have a bright better idea for "stopping them" by posting police at every major intersection in the country. Yeah, that is reasonable and will work...

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by bkk6060

[Galactus]

yes worth it.

does your cage worth it?

i dont think so, you car is just creating traffic, pollution and more.

classic b s from non riders who loves to discriminate riders for unknown reasons. jealousy? they have no balls to ride a bike? not sure why.

 

a special big bike license is a must though and even 21 is too young for a 1000 cc bike for example.

riders here needs to pass from a good training. big bikes are not a joke. 

experience is a must so they need to introduce a tiered riding permit system like in europe. 

start small from 125 cc and it takes like 4 or 5 years to get an open license. and this is proven that it reduces the motorbike deaths in a good percentage.