Help!! my ex will take me to court cause said i abducted his son which i didn't!

[killangel]

Hello all. 

 

I need an urgent advise about my problem. Me and my ex husband has lots of problem when we was together in the uk and one day he said <deleted> off me back to thailand. So i did left the uk returned back to Thailand with my boy ( 2y7m ) on March. After all i did tried contact my ex but he denied me and told me not contact him. so till 1st Aug he texted me said he is now ready for the divorce and want to discuss about child arrangement. He will pay the child support and want me to written sign it only guarantee if he can meet his son and take him see his family in the uk regular. but i say no, he will not go to the uk without me but you can come and meet him anytime.

 

So he doesn't want that. He will go and take me to the court as he has spoke to his lawyer and the lawyer advise him i abduction his son without his permission and since i left the uk i didn't tell him or give him information when i will return back to the uk. ( He has cancelled my visa and it has expired) 

 

I would like to know if he can win me and can take my son back to the uk as he said to me!!

 

please i'm so stressful sorry if my English wasn't clear. Any advise i'm very appreciate. 

 

 

[CharlieH]

The best option is to seek professional qualified advice.

 

My view is, neither of you have been to court, no court order has been made in respect of the child custody and you are still married. Therefore, you cannot "abduct" your own child.

Thai courts in my experience will generally favor the mother, especially as the child is already with you. You have already agreed to reasonable access, but refused foreign travel, which is not unreasonable based on what you have said so far.

 

If he wants to push for more (custody) he has to have good and valid reason for doing so, in a Thai court, as that is where you and the child live.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

It's extreme unlikely that any court will make a decision to take away your son from you.

One big reason is that the son is now with you and was in the last months with you. They won't make a decision to remove your son from you.

For the rest I agree, get professional advice. But don't worry about your son. Nobody will take him away from you.

[AlexRich]

The UK courts have no jurisdiction in Thailand. So any court decision would have no effect on a Thai living in Thailand. Your husband would have to take his case to a Thai court. I very much doubt that a Thai court would order you to return your son to the UK. I really don’t think that you have to do anything. I don’t think you have anything to worry about. 

[hellohello123]

so you demand that he has to come to thailand to see his son, and you wont let the son go to Uk,

 

and now you are complaining about him getting upset and making threats, and still expect him to pay

 

Funny

 

the sense of entitlement for women doenst change no matter what country

Edited August 8, 2019 by hellohello123

[kingstonkid]

GET A GOOD LAWYER that deals in British law.  DO NOT GET A THAI LAWYER.  

No offence but if they are Thai they have no idea about the British systems and have no contacts.  Use a large firm it may cost you more but you will get the results you need.

 

If I were you I would file for divorce in Thailand and make sure that the only visitation he has is at your home with you and at least one other male present.   I am using S!am Egal to assist me with a divorce in canada.

[thesetat2013]

On 8/6/2019 at 5:37 PM, AlexRich said:

The UK courts have no jurisdiction in Thailand. So any court decision would have no effect on a Thai living in Thailand. Your husband would have to take his case to a Thai court. I very much doubt that a Thai court would order you to return your son to the UK. I really don’t think that you have to do anything. I don’t think you have anything to worry about. 

I know of many cases like this in the past. Husband could easily take the child and you would have to fight for it later. He can make claim you kidnapped the child because child was born in the UK and you don't have letter authorizing you his permission to leave the UK with your kid. 

If he gets a hold of your child you should be prepared to fight to get it back. I would suggest you agree to his terms of visitations alone but he must keep the child in Thailand. If he has the child in the UK and you are not there he can keep the child as long as he wants to. If he visits Thailand and travels around with the kid inside Thailand then he must follow Thai laws and return the kid to you or he will be accused of kidnapping and arrested. He does have the right to visitation though as the child's father and can demand it alone without you near. 

[remorhaz]

In a Thai court they will favor you - you are a woman and you are Thai.  In an English court they will absolutely destroy him and force him to pay you 1/2 or more of his salary or pension under threat of prison (if in the US) and I think they yank your passport in England although that may only be the US and Australia.  He has no rights whatsoever in England you are holding all the cards.  And you probably know all of this already.  All you really have to do is say "I feel threatened" and the courts will descend on him like a pack of wolves and he'll never see his son again but if he misses a payment his life is over.

[Satcommlee]

Was your boy born in Thailand? 

[maprao]

10 minutes ago, remorhaz said:

In a Thai court they will favor you - you are a woman and you are Thai.  In an English court they will absolutely destroy him and force him to pay you 1/2 or more of his salary or pension under threat of prison (if in the US) and I think they yank your passport in England although that may only be the US and Australia.  He has no rights whatsoever in England you are holding all the cards.  And you probably know all of this already.  All you really have to do is say "I feel threatened" and the courts will descend on him like a pack of wolves and he'll never see his son again but if he misses a payment his life is over.

Ramblings.

There is a formula for child maintenance in the UK and it is not 50% of salary. You can do the calculation on their website (Child Maintenance Service UK

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance.)

 

Passport retention and denial  is a US thing.

 

Also non payment has a process to be followed on the same website.

[Mick501]

British court would make a decision solely on the best interests of the child.  A moot point if the child is in Thailand, unless he ends up back in Britain for whatever reason.

[Tony125]

2 hours ago, hellohello123 said:

so you demand that he has to come to thailand to see his son, and you wont let the son go to Uk,

 

and now you are complaining about him getting upset and making threats, and still expect him to pay

 

Funny

 

the sense of entitlement for women doenst change no matter what country

Did you read or understand the post at all?  The husband is the one who told her "go back to Thailand" so she did with the son. When trying to call and contact him he said do'nt contact me. Since she has been here he has not supported her or his son financially. Now he says he wants a diviorce and will pay child support but only if he can take the son on trips to England.  He cancelled her visa so if she alowed him to take child back to England he could keep him there and she would have no way to go to England and try to get him back and he would simply have the kid and not pay any support.

[blackcab]

@killangel What nationality are you? What nationality is your husband? What nationality is your son?

[Tony125]

@killangel A few questions. Does the child have a British Passport?  Did your husband send you any money for support of your son and you in Thailand?  Please keep ALL records of contacts between the two of you (texts/emails) especially the text where he says don't contact me. They can disprove his alegations that you took the child and then not tell him how to contact you or send support. Will prove he did not care to know where you were to send support if goes to Thai court. So if goes to Divorice court and he says she took him and I didn't know where they were or when/if she wascoming back and then you show texts/emails showing he did contact you but saiid don't contact me that will showed he lied about those facts. In USA court that would be lying under oath (Perjury) and he would probably lose case and could face jail time.

[Tambs2020]

If the child is a British citizen then you may find yourself in a world of pain.... If the child is a Thai national then there are no issues,  However,  don't expect any money off the father if you took the child without him knowing  ????

[Tony125]

4 minutes ago, Tambs2020 said:

If the child is a British citizen then you may find yourself in a world of pain.... If the child is a Thai national then there are no issues,  However,  don't expect any money off the father if you took the child without him knowing  ????

False !  Recently had a case shown on Thai Visa where a Brit father had filed and got full parental custody of 11 year old son now living in Thailand. Wife took him and did not bring him back to England. SHowed up at estranged wifes home ( she was not at home) with friend went into home got his  son's Brit passport and tried to leave at airport. Was arrested and thrown in jail for many months till he paid wife  a lot of money to drop charges. The British Court order had no standing in Thailand unless he went to Thai court and showed it  in a divorice proceeding.

[khunPer]

@killangel Some good questions asked about where you son was born, and nationality/dual nationality.

 

I agree in that a British court has no jurisdiction in Thailand, any that case need to be brought for a Thai court, probably a the family court (no sure what it's named), when the child is in Thailand. You should seek assistance from a Thai lawyer.

 

Personally I would be skeptical letting the child, your son, off to Britain; as you in worst case scenario would have to fight through the British court system, if your son is not returned. Even you might have all rights, and finally win, it could be costly, and take long time. You also have the risk of loosing in a British court. However, I'm not an expert, and got no experience.

 

There was another thread of interest yesterday about divorce and child custody, here...

 

–Where I saw some interesting replies from @BritManToo, talking about that when still married – after Thai law, and that the child shall probably be Thai national – you have the rights for the child, if the child is in your possession. However, if the other part, the father, grab the child, he has the rights.

 

User BritManToo clarified the statement with this:

Quote

Thai law recognises the equal right of either married parent to possess their child.

Without a divorce and a subsequent custody order, either parent can legally take and possess the child.

Essentially, whoever grabs the kid first can keep her. Thailand doesn't do custody orders when the parents are still married. Usually the male foreigner tries to be fair, which results in mom grabbing the kid and hiding her with family in deepest Issan.

Which is a losing strategy, for dad, because in three years time, the kid won't even remember dad.

Perhaps he kindly will comment also here?

 

Wish the best for you to solve the problem...????

[BritManToo]

On 8/6/2019 at 5:07 PM, killangel said:

So he doesn't want that. He will go and take me to the court as he has spoke to his lawyer and the lawyer advise him i abduction his son without his permission and since i left the uk i didn't tell him or give him information when i will return back to the uk. ( He has cancelled my visa and it has expired) 

 

I would like to know if he can win me and can take my son back to the uk as he said to me!!

Kid's in Thailand, Thai court has jurisdiction.

As long as you don't go back to the UK, there's no problem.

[kanokarn]

First of all all parents should have the right to see their children. 

What your husbands lawyer means is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Convention meaning if a child lived in the UK for the most of their lives they should be brought back to their home country.  If your child is 2 year 7 month in UK and only lived 1 month in Thailand the legal home is UK.

 

However even if Thailand have signed this along with all EU countries Thailand do not follow it. UK follows is and if it was the other way around your husband could get arrested you would get a free ticket visa and the child returned to you. 

 

If your husband wants his child back now he have a few options. 

 

1. He can take the child back with force not from the mother but from any other person he is the legal guardian (nobody else but mother and father) person to take the child. Dont leave your child with anybody else.  However he will have issue leaving Thailand since he need the mothers signature but there is ways around that.

 

2. He can use HC but he need to come to Bangkok and they might reject it. 

 

3. He can sue you in normal juvenile court with a Thai lawyer, sue you for divorce and ask for joint custody or full custody. This can take 4 month to 5 years to finish. If you get a court date YOU MUST GO.

 

4. You divorce in your local office and make a contract with a lawyer who will take care of the children etc.  CHEAPEST AND BEST OPTION FOR BOTH PARTIES!!! 

The contract is binding since it is in the local amphur office and will hold in court. However dont let him take the child BACK to the UK before it started school and lived in Thailand for a few years. 

 

5. If you let the child go back to UK now only for a day you will never see the child again since you have NO legal right to take the child back to Thailand again according to the HC the childs home is UK UNLESS you have the child 1 year in Thailand then the home is Thailand. 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by kanokarn
typo

[Nanaplaza666]

3 hours ago, remorhaz said:

In a Thai court they will favor you - you are a woman and you are Thai.  In an English court they will absolutely destroy him and force him to pay you 1/2 or more of his salary or pension under threat of prison (if in the US) and I think they yank your passport in England although that may only be the US and Australia.  He has no rights whatsoever in England you are holding all the cards.  And you probably know all of this already.  All you really have to do is say "I feel threatened" and the courts will descend on him like a pack of wolves and he'll never see his son again but if he misses a payment his life is over.

I dont know where you get this idea , she said her visa is no longer valid so she has no rights whatsoever in england . Her best choice is to stay in thailand and keep her child here . If he wants to see his child let him visit ,but dont let the child travel to england with him because then she will never see it again . He's the one who told her to f... off and go back to thailand so in a way its his own fold he let them both go . 

[justin case]

2 hours ago, Tony125 said:

Did you read or understand the post at all?  The husband is the one who told her "go back to Thailand" so she did with the son. When trying to call and contact him he said do'nt contact me. Since she has been here he has not supported her or his son financially. Now he says he wants a diviorce and will pay child support but only if he can take the son on trips to England.  He cancelled her visa so if she alowed him to take child back to England he could keep him there and she would have no way to go to England and try to get him back and he would simply have the kid and not pay any support.

that is all hearsay ... but she is in thailand = thai court, so F. the farang

if he goes to school here, it is game over for mr. farang

 

my own embassy said:  follow thai laws...we will not help you... if you manage to get your child to your home country, you will end up in jail ...

 

thailand is for thai people

 

sadly but true, we have no rights here, none

[emptypockets]

2 hours ago, kanokarn said:

First of all all parents should have the right to see their children. 

What your husbands lawyer means is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Convention meaning if a child lived in the UK for the most of their lives they should be brought back to their home country.  If your child is 2 year 7 month in UK and only lived 1 month in Thailand the legal home is UK.

 

However even if Thailand have signed this along with all EU countries Thailand do not follow it. UK follows is and if it was the other way around your husband could get arrested you would get a free ticket visa and the child returned to you. 

 

If your husband wants his child back now he have a few options. 

 

1. He can take the child back with force not from the mother but from any other person he is the legal guardian (nobody else but mother and father) person to take the child. Dont leave your child with anybody else.  However he will have issue leaving Thailand since he need the mothers signature but there is ways around that.

 

2. He can use HC but he need to come to Bangkok and they might reject it. 

 

3. He can sue you in normal juvenile court with a Thai lawyer, sue you for divorce and ask for joint custody or full custody. This can take 4 month to 5 years to finish. If you get a court date YOU MUST GO.

 

4. You divorce in your local office and make a contract with a lawyer who will take care of the children etc.  CHEAPEST AND BEST OPTION FOR BOTH PARTIES!!! 

The contract is binding since it is in the local amphur office and will hold in court. However dont let him take the child BACK to the UK before it started school and lived in Thailand for a few years. 

 

5. If you let the child go back to UK now only for a day you will never see the child again since you have NO legal right to take the child back to Thailand again according to the HC the childs home is UK UNLESS you have the child 1 year in Thailand then the home is Thailand. 

 

 

6.She goes back alone and divorces him and takes him to the cleaners.... House etc etc.  Serve him right too. 

Only have to allege domestic violence and I'd be surprised if she didn't have some friend who would back this up. 

 

[kanokarn]

1 minute ago, justin case said:

that is all hearsay ... but she is in thailand = thai court, so F. the farang

if he goes to school here, it is game over for mr. farang

 

my own embassy said:  follow thai laws...we will not help you... if you manage to get your child to your home country, you will end up in jail ...

 

thailand is for thai people

 

sadly but true, we have no rights here, none

 

You have plenty of rights however if you take the child with force its the Hauge as i posted before yes you will end up in Jail. 

[CanadaSam]

Angel, go to a lawyer, even a cheap one, and send your husband a REGISTERED POST letter stating the facts, i.e. HE asked you to leave England with baby, you said he can visit baby anytime in Thailand, etc. etc.

 

Get some proof (like this letter) to support your case in court, along with SMS texts, e-mails etc. just in case.

 

But, as other posters said, you are very safe in Thailand, just don't let husband take baby back to UK, or you will have a difficult fight ahead.

 

Best of luck!

[hatewaitin]

On 8/6/2019 at 7:55 PM, CharlieH said:

The best option is to seek professional qualified advice.

 

My view is, neither of you have been to court, no court order has been made in respect of the child custody and you are still married. Therefore, you cannot "abduct" your own child.

Thai courts in my experience will generally favor the mother, especially as the child is already with you. You have already agreed to reasonable access, but refused foreign travel, which is not unreasonable based on what you have said so far.

 

If he wants to push for more (custody) he has to have good and valid reason for doing so, in a Thai court, as that is where you and the child live.

 

If your child is a UK citizen you have removed the child illegally from there. 

You had to have permission from your husband to leave the country. 

If the child Is a Thai citizen then your child falls under the laws of your country. 

 

[killangel]

On 8/6/2019 at 5:25 PM, CharlieH said:

The best option is to seek professional qualified advice.

 

My view is, neither of you have been to court, no court order has been made in respect of the child custody and you are still married. Therefore, you cannot "abduct" your own child.

Thai courts in my experience will generally favor the mother, especially as the child is already with you. You have already agreed to reasonable access, but refused foreign travel, which is not unreasonable based on what you have said so far.

 

If he wants to push for more (custody) he has to have good and valid reason for doing so, in a Thai court, as that is where you and the child live.

 

Thank you so much for the advice. I'm now awaiting hear back from him. so will see if he did applied to the court in the uk and sent over in thailand. 

[killangel]

On 8/8/2019 at 11:14 AM, Satcommlee said:

Was your boy born in Thailand? 

Yes,He was born in Thailand. 

[killangel]

On 8/8/2019 at 12:14 PM, blackcab said:

@killangel What nationality are you? What nationality is your husband? What nationality is your son?

i'm thai.

my ex is British 

my son was born in thailand and have got uk passport. 

[Gumballl]

On 8/8/2019 at 2:32 AM, kanokarn said:

First of all all parents should have the right to see their children. 

What your husbands lawyer means is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Convention meaning if a child lived in the UK for the most of their lives they should be brought back to their home country.  If your child is 2 year 7 month in UK and only lived 1 month in Thailand the legal home is UK.

 

However even if Thailand have signed this along with all EU countries Thailand do not follow it. UK follows is and if it was the other way around your husband could get arrested you would get a free ticket visa and the child returned to you. 

...

I just Googled for info; as of April 1, 2016, Thailand (and the US) are now signatories of the Hague Convention (regarding child abduction).

[killangel]

On 8/8/2019 at 12:31 PM, Tony125 said:

@killangel A few questions. Does the child have a British Passport?  Did your husband send you any money for support of your son and you in Thailand?  Please keep ALL records of contacts between the two of you (texts/emails) especially the text where he says don't contact me. They can disprove his alegations that you took the child and then not tell him how to contact you or send support. Will prove he did not care to know where you were to send support if goes to Thai court. So if goes to Divorice court and he says she took him and I didn't know where they were or when/if she wascoming back and then you show texts/emails showing he did contact you but saiid don't contact me that will showed he lied about those facts. In USA court that would be lying under oath (Perjury) and he would probably lose case and could face jail time.

Hello, sorry for late reply. 

Yes, MY son have got a British passport. 

No, My ex haven't give me any child support since back to Thailand. 

Thank you for all the advise. I kept and have all of the evidence. Just waiting and see if my ex did applied to the court.