WAR & PEACE !

[007 RED]

I renewed my extension of stay (Retirement), based upon income method, yesterday.

 

Background:

 

British citizen who over the past 8 years has relied upon the letter from the British Embassy to ‘confirm income’ in support of extension renewal. 

 

My extension renewal is due on the 7 September.  My local Immigration Office is Nakhon Pathom.

 

I have a GBP foreign currency deposit account with Bangkok Bank headquarters (Silom Road – Bangkok).

 

My income is derived from 3 pensions which are paid directly into my HSBC UK bank account.

 

In the past I have transferred GBP to my Bangkok Bank account, as and when required, via online banking with HSBC.  The transfer is: HSBC to Bangkok Bank (London) who then transfer the amount (less their handling fee) to my BB account in Bangkok.  Has worked well for me.

 

Following the British Embassies announcement to stop providing their supporting letter, and Thai Immigration confirming their rules in January concerning providing evidence showing income not less than 65,000 baht per month, I set up a regular 2,000 GBP transfer by standing order (HSBC to BB London) on the last day of each month.  I also arranged with BB (Bangkok) to send me an email notification when the funds were credited to my account.  Again, this has worked well.

 

Obtaining a letter from Bangkok Bank confirming transfer of funds from abroad

 

Yesterday I went to Bangkok Bank’s HQ in Silom Road.  Arrived at 08:30am and was number 1 in the queue of the Foreign Remittance Department on the 2nd floor.  I asked the counter clerk for their letter confirming that I had deposited money from overseas into my account, plus a statement showing the amounts that I had transferred for the past 12 months.

 

The lady showed me an example letter which only confirmed that I was an account holder and the current amount in my account.  She informed me that she could only provide a statement showing all account transactions for the past 6 months.  She said that they could not produce a statement showing only amounts credited to my account.  If I wanted a statement showing all transaction for more than 6 month it would need to be ordered and may take a day.  There would also be a fee for providing the letter and a 12 month statement.

 

I advised the counter clerk that earlier this year I had made an enquiry about a letter for Thai Immigration confirming funds credited from abroad and was advised by the supervisor that the bank that time was aware of Immigration’s requirements and that they were in discussion as to the format of such a letter.  At this point the counter clerk called the supervisor over.

 

I reminded the supervisor of our previous conversation regarding a letter for Immigration.  She said that after discussions with Immigration, they (the bank) decided that they would use an existing letter template which is used to confirm the amount transferred from overseas to facilitate the purchase of a condo by a foreigner.  She said that the bank could provide a statement showing all transactions but not one that only shows credits from overseas.  She said that they could provide Credit Advice Notes confirming each transfer and advised that these (letter and Credit Advice Notes) would be accepted by Immigration.

She said that the cost of the letter was 100 baht.  The bank would provide Credit Advice Notes for the past 6 months free, however, if I wanted anything beyond 6 months they would make a charge of 500 baht.

 

I took the view that although the then Immigration Commissioner (Big Joke) had sent a memo to all offices earlier this year advising them to be lenient with regards to fund transfers during the first 12 months, I would still request documents to support 12 months of transactions just to be on the safe side.

Having made the request for the letter and 12 months of credit advice notes, I was informed that their system could produce 6 months’ worth of credit advice notes almost instantly but credit advice notes beyond 6 months had to be individually recovered from the system and that this process could take quite some time.  No problem, I could wait.

 

The supervisor then directed to another counter clerk who would process my request.  The counter clerk asked for my passbook and passport.  When the clerk looked at my passbook she asked if I had my previous passbook.  My current book was relatively new with only a few transactions in it.  She explained that she needs to be able to identify dates that overseas funds have been credited to my account to enable her to extract the Credit Advice Notes from the system beyond 6 months.  I asked if she could look this up on the system, or print out a statement, and she said that she could not, she needed the previous passbook. I explained that the previous passbooks were at home which would mean a 2-3 hour trip to get home and another 2-3 hour trip to return to the bank, which given the time would not be feasible that day.

 

Although I was doing my hardest to remain cool, calm and collective, the supervisor who was still hovering in the background could see I was becoming somewhat frustrated.  She asked if someone at home could find the previous passbook and attach the photo the relevant pages to an email and send it to her BB email account.  I called Mrs MoneyBaht who found the relevant old passbook and emailed photos of the relevant pages to the supervisor, who in turn printed them out for the clerk.

 

The past 6 months Credit Advice Notes were printed out almost instantly, but it took the clerk about 1.5 hours to extract and print the earlier 6 month’s Credit Advice Notes.

 

Eventually, at around 11am, I was given the bank letter and 12 months’ worth of Credit Advice Notes.

 

The Bank Letter

 

I was expecting a letter listing the dates and amounts that had been credited to my Foreign Currency Deposit Account during the previous 12 months.  The letter was in Thai and only confirmed the total amount (GBP) that had been credited to my account from overseas during the 12 month period that I had requested.  A conversion (at the exchange rate at the time) GBP to Baht was also given.

 

Because the letter contains considerable personal information and redacting it would make it meaningless, I have produced an English summary of the format which I’ve attached below for information.

 

Bangkok Bank Letter.pdf

 

The Credit Advice Notes 

 

Upon receiving these, I realised that these documents were the same documents that the bank emails to me (as pdf’s) to inform me that funds have been credited to my account.

 

Note:  The transfer of funds from BB (London) to BB (Bangkok) are shown as SWIFT on the Credit Advice Notes, but in the passbook the transfers are coded as I/R which is not listed at the back of the passbook.

 

A lesson learned here.  File the pdf’s attached to email notification of funds credited to my account for next year and save both a lot of time and baht getting copies from the bank.  Alternatively, when you go to the bank ask for the Credit Advice Notes applicable to your latest transfer or previous 6 months.

 

I have attached a redacted copy of the most recent Credit Advice Note for your information.

 

Credit Advice.pdf

 

After the Bank (fiasco)

 

Because I was uncertain if my local Immigration Office (Nakhon Pathom) would accept the bank’s letter and Credit Advice Notes as evidence of sufficient income transferred from overseas, I decided to stop off at the office on the way home and show them the documents and seek their view.  If they weren’t acceptable I would have sufficient time to go back to the bank before the renewal date.

 

I would say that my personal experience of visiting my local Immigration Office has always been very good. The wait times are normally quite short and the staff/officers always friendly.

 

Arrived at the office at about 2:30pm.  The enquiry clerk directed me to one of the IO’s.  I explained that my extension of permission to stay was due for renewal next month (7th) and I would be doing this based upon the income option (65K/month).  As part of the preparation I had been to the bank in Bangkok that morning to obtain the necessary evidence of funds transfer from overseas, but that I was unsure if what the bank had given me would satisfy them (Immigration).

 

The officer looked at the letter and the Credit Advice Notes marking each date and the amount (GBP) of transfer.  She then asked for my bank passbook and compared a few dates/amounts on the Credit Advice Notes with the entries in the passbook.

 

She noted that the letter stated the total amount of funds (GBP) which had been transferred from overseas during the past 12 months and promptly took out her calculator and divided the figure by 12.  She then looked up the GBP to THB exchange rate for the day and said that there was no problem, the documents were acceptable, and the amount was of income was in excess of what was required.

 

I got floored

 

The IO then asked if I had my passport with me, which I did.  She had a quick look at the last extension stamp and said OK I do your extension now.  What, I don’t all the other documents with me they are at home as I had planned to do the extension next week if the bank documents were acceptable.

 

No problem she said, go get your photo taken from the booth outside the office and then fill in a TM7.

 

When I returned she had photocopied the relevant pages of my passport, got me to sign them plus a document acknowledging penalties for overstay and requirement for 90 day notification.  After she took my photo (via web cam) she disappeared into the back office and returned a few minutes later with a big smile on her face and handed my passport duly stamped for another year extension of stay.

 

Arrived at 2:30pn, out just before 3:00pm.  Back home at 3:30pm completely cream crackered (good old British saying).

 

Hope this helps other members who have a Bangkok Bank Foreign Currency Deposit Account and are contemplating their extension of stay based upon the income option.  Of course, I cannot vouch for what your local BB may or may not offer you as evidence, or whether your local IO will accept such evidence. 

 

Good luck.

 

PS…. As a side issue

 

I noted that when the IO took my passport she placed the photo page (which has the bio chip embedded on the reverse of the page) onto a passport scanner (as used at the airport/entry points). I was able to see her screen and see that my biographical data was being displayed, including my photo.  She then compared the passport photo page with the information on her screen.  I have never seen these scanners in my local Immigration Office before (was last there only a few weeks ago to do my 90 day report).  Maybe the next piece of kit they will get is for taking fingerprints.  Who knows!

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by 007 RED
Typos

[Puchaiyank]

Thanks for sharing...all's well that ends well...now you have many months of peace before entering the twilight zone once more...????

[Pib]

Excellent report.  And it good to see your immigration office was happy with the basic bank letter and supporting credit advice docs.  The immigration office didn't require  letter that only listed the foreign transfers.

 

The immigration office apparently didn't care about passbook coding...coding that can vary (i.e., FTT, BTN, I/R, etc) depending on the transfer method, how the last leg of the transfer was handled, etc.  With all the variations in coding used by different Thai banks it's got to be hard for immigration offices to determine which transfers were international or local.   The immigration office seemed to place the greatest emphasis on "Thai bank letter and credit advice docs" confirming the transfers originated from outside of Thailand.    

 

Now all of your transfers were SWIFT transfers coming from Bangkok Bank London.  They were clearly international transfers.  If I had to guess I would guess I/R stands for International Remittance. 

 

One question I have is "Would Bangkok Bank have included transfers on the bank letter that did not have the FTT International Transfer or I/R International Remittance coding in their system?  Like say for BTN/Bahtnet or SMT/SMART coding some people receive for some international transfers....that coding appears usually because the last leg of an international transfer was handled by another Thai bank. 

 

[wgdanson]

Surely a transfer of GBP to a GBP foreign currency account MUST be from abroad, and be coded as such.

[Genericnic]

That is why I drop by my bank a day or so after the deposit comes in to update my passbook and ask for a credit advice for the deposit. Much easier than having to collect them at the end of the year. Of course, I am lucky. I am only about a 5 minute walk from my bank so I get a bit of exercise as well.

 

David

 

[sumrit]

Thanks for your report. It seems that the only problem you and others have had is obtaining the correct documentation from the bank, Immigration have been no problem at all.

[007 RED]

14 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Surely a transfer of GBP to a GBP foreign currency account MUST be from abroad, and be coded as such.

Thanks for your observation, but FYI a transfer of GBP to a GBP FCA may not necessarily be from abroad and, therefore, will not be coded as an international transfer.  For example;  

 

a)  When I initially opened the FCA with BB HQ, I gave them 5K GBP in cash as the initial deposit.  The cash came with me from the UK (I had a UK bank confirmation of withdrawing that amount for UK/Thai customs clearance if required) so the money came from abroad.  However, the transfer was coded as a cash deposit in the bank passbook.  The bank would have no idea if the money came with me from the UK or I had some form of business in Thailand that only accepted payments in GBP cash.

 

b)  If you have 2 FCAs, at 2 different banks, and then transfer say GBP from 1 account to the other I suspect that the transfer will not be classified as an international transfer.

[007 RED]

14 hours ago, Pib said:

...... it good to see your immigration office was happy with the basic bank letter and supporting credit advice docs.  The immigration office didn't require  letter that only listed the foreign transfers.

Thanks for your comments. 

 

Correct, the IO was quite comfortable with the bank letter which only quoted the total amount of GBP transferred from abroad during the 12 month period.  As mentioned, she quickly whipped out her calculator and divided the total by 12 and multiplied that by the exchange rate at the time.

 

Regarding a bank letter that only listed the foreign transfers, that was not mentioned or offered by the bank and the IO did not indicate that was what they wanted.

 

14 hours ago, Pib said:

The immigration office apparently didn't care about passbook coding...coding that can vary (i.e., FTT, BTN, I/R, etc) depending on the transfer method, how the last leg of the transfer was handled, etc.  With all the variations in coding used by different Thai banks it's got to be hard for immigration offices to determine which transfers were international or local.   The immigration office seemed to place the greatest emphasis on "Thai bank letter and credit advice docs" confirming the transfers originated from outside of Thailand. 

Again correct, she only compared the date/amount shown on the Credit Advice Note with that entered in the passbook.  As you say, with all the various coded used by each bank, let alone used by the different banks, she would need an 'almanac' to decipher the all the codes. 

14 hours ago, Pib said:

One question I have is "Would Bangkok Bank have included transfers on the bank letter that did not have the FTT International Transfer or I/R International Remittance coding in their system?  Like say for BTN/Bahtnet or SMT/SMART coding some people receive for some international transfers....that coding appears usually because the last leg of an international transfer was handled by another Thai bank. 

That's the 64K $ question which I cannot answer as all my transfers were coded as SWIFT on the Credit Advice Notes or I/R in my passbook.

[007 RED]

8 hours ago, Genericnic said:

That is why I drop by my bank a day or so after the deposit comes in to update my passbook and ask for a credit advice for the deposit. Much easier than having to collect them at the end of the year. Of course, I am lucky. I am only about a 5 minute walk from my bank so I get a bit of exercise as well.

 

David

You could save yourself the 5 minute walk if you want.  Just ask the bank to send you a notification email when your funds have been deposited to your account.  The email has a pdf attached which is the Credit Advice Note that you pick up from the bank.  This facility is free.

 

In my case it saves a 4 hour plus round trip on the bus and BTS from home into BKK.

 

Of course you may well say that you need the exercise which is a good enough reason to go to the bank.

[watcharacters]

16 hours ago, 007 RED said:

There would also be a fee for providing the letter and a 12 month statement.

 

Sometimes I think the Thai banks wrote the book on bank fees.    I'm waiting for the day there's an entrance fee to enter the bank.

 

 

[007 RED]

4 hours ago, sumrit said:

Thanks for your report. It seems that the only problem you and others have had is obtaining the correct documentation from the bank, Immigration have been no problem at all.

In my case the frustration of the day was definitely obtaining the letter and Credit Advice Notes from the Bank.  It amassed me that they could not extract more than 6 months worth of CAN's automatically and had to locate those older than 6 months manually which took so much time.

 

As mentioned in my original post, I only went to my local Immigration Office on the way home to get their view as to whether or not they would accept the bank letter and ACNs pending doing my renewal next week.  Much to my surprise the IO no only said that both documents were acceptable as evidence of 65K/month having been transferred into a Thai bank from abroad, but that she insisted that I do my extension renewal then - I had no other supporting documents, and as far as I was aware Immigration only allow you to do a renewal within a month of the existing extension expiring.  In my case it was a week and one month.  The IO copied all the necessary pages from my passport FOC all I had to do was get my photo taken and fill in a new TM7.  A great service.

Edited August 7, 2019 by 007 RED

[Pib]

I would bet a big chunk of money the lady you dealt with at the Bangkok Bank head office Remittance Section is the same lady I've talked to a couple of times when I go get a credit advice.  I'm not using the monthly income method (I use the Bt800K deposit method), but I was getting some credit advices just to satisfy my curiosity as to how hard/easy they are to get, how long it took, pricing, and ask some questions along the way.

 

One time I even paid Bt100 to get the "monthly income" letter which list transfers individually (I posted this in a related thread)...this was just to satisfy my curiosity.   Some others have posted similar letters.  But before preparing this letter the lady also asked if I just wanted the type of letter like you got...the letter that basically just showed total amount on deposit.  

 

During one visit I asked if she would reflect on the monthly income letter that a certain international transfer which is always code BTN/Bahtnet (an US Social Security International Direct Deposit transfer) since the final leg of this transfer is routed thru the Bank of Thailand Bahtnet System which is predominately used for domestic transfer. 

 

The lady said no....would not list it on the letter although the credit advice clearly showed it originated from the U.S.  I questioned her a little more about why not include it....never got a good answer in my opinion.   I expect since then she has been hit-up with similar questions because her section does a lot of immigration letters with it being the head office branch in the HQ Bangkok Bank building on Silom Rd in Bangkok.  And guidance from the head office branch is what other branches around Thailand many times go by. The head office branch is were where I have my accounts. 

 

Over the next week or two I plan to swing by and get another credit advice and also ask the question again "Will you include transfers on the letter that the credit advice clearly confirms is an international transfer but your Bangkok Bank coding does not....like maybe for a BTN/Bahtnet transfer.....a SMT/SMART transfer from Transferwise, etc?"   

 

See what the answer is now....see if it's changed since the last time I've asked.  For me I just find it hard to understand if a credit advice shows a transfer originated from outside of Thailand that it can't be included on their monthly income letter.   

 

 

[Pib]

22 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

You could save yourself the 5 minute walk if you want.  Just ask the bank to send you a notification email when your funds have been deposited to your account.  The email has a pdf attached which is the Credit Advice Note that you pick up from the bank.  This facility is free.

 

In my case it saves a 4 hour plus round trip on the bus and BTS from home into BKK.

 

Of course you may well say that you need the exercise which is a good enough reason to go to the bank.

What bank is that?   SCB, K-bank, etc. 

 

It's not Bangkok Bank as I get SMSs of international remittances and there is no PDF attached.

[007 RED]

5 hours ago, Pib said:

What bank is that?   SCB, K-bank, etc. 

 

It's not Bangkok Bank as I get SMSs of international remittances and there is no PDF attached.

I don't know which bank @Genericnic uses, but my bank is Bangkok Bank HQ and I arranged with them about 4 months ago to send me a notification email when funds (GBP) have been credited to my Foreign Currency Deposit Account.

 

When I registered for this service I noted that there were 2 notification options, namely; SMS or email.  I opted for email notification.  As previously mentioned this service is FREE.

 

It took them about 2 months to activate my request, so I've only been getting email notification from them for the past 2 months.  I just expected a very basic email stating that they have received funds which have been credited to my account, so I was very surprised by the amount of detail which they actually provided in their email.

 

I have attached a screen shot of a recent email from Bangkok Bank and as you will see it not only has the Credit Advice information in the main text body, but there is also a pdf file attached (just above the bank logo) which is a direct copy of Credit Advice Note that the bank provided to me on Monday together with the letter for Immigration. 

 

The bonus of the pdf is that I can save it in my Immigration/bank file ready for next year.

 

 

 

[sumrit]

1 hour ago, 007 RED said:

I don't know which bank @Genericnic uses, but my bank is Bangkok Bank HQ and I arranged with them about 4 months ago to send me a notification email when funds (GBP) have been credited to my Foreign Currency Deposit Account.

 

When I registered for this service I noted that there were 2 notification options, namely; SMS or email.  I opted for email notification.  As previously mentioned this service is FREE.

 

It took them about 2 months to activate my request, so I've only been getting email notification from them for the past 2 months.  I just expected a very basic email stating that they have received funds which have been credited to my account, so I was very surprised by the amount of detail which they actually provided in their email.

 

I have attached a screen shot of a recent email from Bangkok Bank and as you will see it not only has the Credit Advice information in the main text body, but there is also a pdf file attached (just above the bank logo) which is a direct copy of Credit Advice Note that the bank provided to me on Monday together with the letter for Immigration. 

 

The bonus of the pdf is that I can save it in my Immigration/bank file ready for next year.

 

 

 

Thanks for the Info. Its something else we can arrange from BKKB automatically to cross reference our monthly transfers. 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, 007 RED said:

I don't know which bank @Genericnic uses, but my bank is Bangkok Bank HQ and I arranged with them about 4 months ago to send me a notification email when funds (GBP) have been credited to my Foreign Currency Deposit Account.

 

When I registered for this service I noted that there were 2 notification options, namely; SMS or email.  I opted for email notification.  As previously mentioned this service is FREE.

 

It took them about 2 months to activate my request, so I've only been getting email notification from them for the past 2 months.  I just expected a very basic email stating that they have received funds which have been credited to my account, so I was very surprised by the amount of detail which they actually provided in their email.

 

I have attached a screen shot of a recent email from Bangkok Bank and as you will see it not only has the Credit Advice information in the main text body, but there is also a pdf file attached (just above the bank logo) which is a direct copy of Credit Advice Note that the bank provided to me on Monday together with the letter for Immigration. 

 

The bonus of the pdf is that I can save it in my Immigration/bank file ready for next year.

 

 

 

Thanks.  I have the free SMS Remittance Alert setup where I get a SMS stating amount rec'd, from whom, exchange rate, receiving fee, amount posting to acct , etc.  But that's it...no attached file/no attached credit advice.  This is for a Thai baht acct; not a FCD acct.   Also, it's only an SMS; no email.  More info here:  https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Digital-Banking/SMS-Services/SMS-Remittance-Alert

 

I wonder if what you are getting is unique to a FCD.  My gut is leaning that way right now.

 

 

[mtls2005]

On 8/6/2019 at 6:07 PM, 007 RED said:

She noted that the letter stated the total amount of funds (GBP) which had been transferred from overseas during the past 12 months and promptly took out her calculator and divided the figure by 12.

 

For those of us who only started making qualifying foreign transfers in January, division of the total by twelve will present some issues.

 

I would hope, assuming leniency is applied, that any total would be divided by the number of months from Jan up to the month of this year's extension application? And further, that each month would be verified to be greater than 65,000 baht.

 

For standard passbook savings accounts Bangkok Bank does not offer any alert/notification for Credit Advice/Receipts. At least it doesn't show as an option on iBanking, where you can get SMS alert for an arriving foreign remittance (these work well), and email options for many other activies.

 

I just pick up each CAR each month shortly after the transfer is credited, these are free, but do require the passbook (no ID requested, intersetingly enough), which must be updated to show the transaction associated with the CAR.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by mtls2005